60 Comments - Steve - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 9:51 am: CTU doesn’t care what the law says. They know they are in a union town. As long as no one is going to get fired for going on strike: there’s an incentive to go on strike. Some large cities don’t even allow teachers to strike. There might be a strike and it probably will not be the last strike. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 9:54 am: I wasn’t aware of this law and now I understand why some CTU people were saying they don’t want more money but it is their only leverage. This clears things up for me. - Ed Equity - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 10:01 am: Well, when teachers can’t vote under an Australian ballot (universally private/secret ballot) who knows what they really want. Given that teachers were offered an extremely generous raise, my guess is that a much larger percentage wants to take the deal and not strike. If your union boss is there with the clip board, how would a teacher say no? - Livco - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 10:03 am: The 1995 Chicago School Reform Act is the issue. CPS is the only district in the state not required to negotiate on these issues. Current CPS board president Miguel Del Valle called the law “the most irresponsible piece of legislation affecting education that I’ve seen come before this body in the eight years that I’ve been here” in his Senate floor testimony. p. 171 here: http://ilga.gov/Senate/transcripts/Strans89/ST052395.pdf - Ok - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 10:04 am: Also seems to be that CTU is “daring” CPS to not negotiate over these issues. So… is the path ahead that a strike happens. CPS formally says it will never negotiate over class size. CTU sues, seeks a court injunction directing CPS to negotiate over class size, with the emergency justification being that it is needed to end the strike. And then you get legal clarity? With CTU having only upside by trying to convince a Cook County judge that the law is immoral? I mean… that would be a decent strategy. I just don’t know if Mr. Sharkey is savvy enough to have a long-term legal strategy in mind. - City Zen - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 10:05 am: Your ability to strike can be diminished or impaired. Just go on strike already. “Illegal” union strikes happen all the time. Teachers have nothing to lose. They’re not going to lose any pay because the minimum school year is mandated by law. Just go already. It’s not like we’re going to back CPS management. - Lester Holt’s Mustache - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 10:26 am: The last CTU strike resulted in Gov. Bruce Rauner. Law of unintended consequences might bring more harm than good this time too. Also, someone please tell Stacy Davis Gates that neither Saint Augustine nor Dr. Martin Luther King are members of CTU - tgk - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 10:31 am: “The last CTU strike resulted in Gov. Bruce Rauner.” hmmm… - Just Another Anon - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 10:34 am: @OK “is immoral”. Whether or not a law is immoral is immaterial. Moral rectitude is not a prerequisite for a law to be valid. CTU is heading down a blind alley, which will no doubt lead to their destruction. They turned down a huge pay raise, which turns public opinion against them if they strike. They aren’t allowed to strike on other items it appears they would prefer to strike about. I’m reminded of the old saying: “When the facts are against you, argue the law. When the law is against you argue the facts. When both are against, you pound the table and yell like hell.” In this instance, CTU is hoping that the shouting will replace the substance of their argument to strike over the only permissible basis the generous raises they rejected. - Roman - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 10:36 am: It’s worth noting that those restrictions on bargaining only apply to CPS, not any other school district in the state. - Rich Miller - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 10:40 am: Roman, it’s noted in the post. - Whatever - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 10:42 am: ==The last CTU strike resulted in Gov. Bruce Rauner.== I vaguely remember that there was a CTU strike sometime in this century, but, here down south of I-80, I don’t remember anyone ever talking about it like it had anything to do with us. - phenom_Anon - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 10:52 am: There have been a few bills in recent years to strip CPS of the right to decide whether to bargain on those issues. Part of this push by CTU may be to shine a light on that and generate public pressure to change it. - Ashland Adam - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 11:03 am: In response to this…. == Well, when teachers can’t vote under an Australian ballot (universally private/secret ballot) who knows what they really want. Given that teachers were offered an extremely generous raise, my guess is that a much larger percentage wants to take the deal and not strike. If your union boss is there with the clip board, how would a teacher say no?== CTU strike elections are secret ballot. Teachers sign in, must be a union member in good standing, and they get a ballot to X. There are card board ‘CTU Voting Booths’ provided, which set up on top of a table, providing privacy. No ‘Union boss with clipboard’ tabulating votes. This is a secret election. - Anon E Moose - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 11:07 am: I would pay any increase in teacher salary for the ability to remove bad teachers. That appears to be non-negotiable however. - Ashland Adam - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 11:09 am: Teachers then fold their ballots and slip them into slit in a large, sealed envelope. They can vote as they wish. What do teachers want? they want stability in their schools, they want resources and personnel to help meet students’ needs. They want work environments with an employer who is not punitive and threatening, which is how CPS under Daley - Rahm and the current leadership is/has been. - Jocko - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 11:20 am: ==I would pay any increase in teacher salary for the ability to remove bad teachers.== Bad at their job or bad at office politics (e.g. not ‘in’ with their building principal)? - Anon E Moose - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 11:45 am: Bad at their job. - Skewl - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 11:48 am: Moose, a school board has the final say in teacher dismissal cases. The union can’t stop it. That’s also been affirmed by the IL. Supreme Court. - Dybalat - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 11:56 am: How does CPS spending per student compare to other large cities around the country? I can’t seem to find any solid statistics. I doubt CPS is spending on the low side of comparable places. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 11:58 am: Anon E Moose: see article 29 of the CTU contract. Teachers can be dismissed. - Joe Bidenopolous - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 12:02 pm: === how would a teacher say no?=== By using their words - Joe Bidenopolous - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 12:07 pm: === It’s not like we’re going to back CPS management.=== This, all day. At least in my neighborhood, everyone pretty much knows it’s not about the money. I think Lightfoot is playing with fire here. - Dybalat - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 12:08 pm: Of course teachers can be dismissed. The problem is that it is very difficult to fire bad teachers. - Tim - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 12:39 pm: No school board in their right mind would ever negotiate or agree to class size limits. While the research does show that smaller class sizes are better for kids, sometimes stuff just happens, and boards need flexibility to adjust on the fly. Agreeing to class size limits just ties the board’s hands, and could result in consequences you can’t adjust for. If they can’t say yes to what’s on the table, to heck with them. - Lester Holt’s Mustache - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 12:41 pm: ==I vaguely remember that there was a CTU strike sometime in this century, but, here down south of I-80, I don’t remember anyone ever talking about it like it had anything to do with us.== It was widely reported (including here at Capfax) that Rauner decided to plow his fortune into a run for governor because of his anger over the last CTU strike. Or, more specifically, what Rauner saw as Rahm’s capitulation to the CTU to end the strike. I’m not blaming CTU for Rauner, I’m just saying - unintended consequences - City Zen - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 12:58 pm: ==No school board in their right mind would ever negotiate or agree to class size limits.== It’s a hedge against school closures, which in turn reduce headcount, which in turn reduce dues paying union members. - Union thug - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 12:59 pm: Take a wider look at things. Last couple years have seen teachers state wide go on strick. Not in Illinois I know. But in these states they have no union and it was illegal to strike. CTU sees this and thinks they can gain sympathy as well since the iisues are not pay. They feel emboldened by recent success with teacher strikes. Time will tell if it holds out - Dybalat - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 1:08 pm: City Zen, I suppose you are right but CPS has lost thousands of students over the last few years. Tying CPS hands on closing schools will only make things worse for students as resources are stretched. - Blue Dog Dem - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 1:29 pm: Whatever the outcome, i know CTU is doing it with the kids best interests in mind. - Thomas Paine - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 1:32 pm: Six of the ten best high schools in Illinois are in CPS, according to US News and World Report. All six have union teachers protected by rules against capricious firing. Scott Adams was syndicated because the reality is most private companies in America resemble a Dilbert cartoon, filled with all kinds of folks who are incompetent yet never get fired. Incompetent people thrive in the corporate world not because of union contracts but because of a combination of bad managers and tight labor markets that make it unclear whether the person you are letting go can be replaced with someone who will be any better. I doubt there are any more faulty teachers than there are faulty Lawyers, probably fewer, but my question to all the critics is if you fired half the teachers in CPS tomorrow because you could, who in the world do you think you would hire to replace them? - Ed Equity - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 2:08 pm: Perhaps she should take a stance on an issue where the CTU fought and won for the right for teachers to have sex w students (always hard to type that and to believe that actually happened). Gives her the moral high ground. “The bill dials back more robust proposals following opposition by powerful teacher unions and a civil liberties group. For example, lawmakers dropped a provision that would make it a crime for school employees to have sexual contact with a student regardless of the student’s age.” 👇 https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-cps-sex-abuse-betrayed-legislation-20190527-story.html - Ashland Adam - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 2:26 pm: Class size is negotiable in all Illinois school districts, except in Chicago. - Ashland Adam - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 2:42 pm: To the comments on ‘bad teachers,’ ‘how would a teacher say no?’ I refer you to responses above, at 11:03, 11:09 and 11:20 am. To the 2:08 comment - ‘…won for the right for teachers to have sex w/ students…’ Civil liberties groups and unions support due process under the law. - Tim - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 2:48 pm: OK. And any board that signs off on hard and fast class sizes to get a contract is making a big mistake. That ties their hands at the expense if the taxpayer and the benefit if the teacher’s unions, neither if which is a good idea. - Ashland Adam - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 2:59 pm: Except for CPS of course, Illinois school boards are elected. Those elected officials and the employees with whom they negotiate have an interest in working things out. In CPS, the public has little say in school governance. As a result, heightened acrimony, stridency, high levels of frustration w CPS leadership and board. That comes btw, not just from teachers and staff - but parents as well. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 3:02 pm: ==where the CTU fought and won for the right for teachers to have sex w students (always hard to type that and to believe that actually happened).== No. The article that you posted is about a new bill to address sex abuse at Chicago schools and here is what CTU spokeswoman Christine Geovanis said about it: “the union did not raise objections to the latest version off the bill and considers student safety a priority. “We all recognize that this is a huge challenge and one we must meet.” That’s different than fighting for the right for teachers to have sex with students. But you already knew that, you just couldn’t resist a chance to smear the teachers. - Tim - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 3:08 pm: Please substitute of for if. - Rudiforte - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 3:21 pm: Most of us like most of our kids teachers though. It’s the Chicago Teachers Union that I have disagreements with. - Kevin - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 3:39 pm: Why is this debate about what is legal for CTU to strike over and not what is best for students? Which parents agrees that higher than average class sizes, vast vacancies, and underfunded special education are beneficial to Chicago students? If CTU needs to leverage a strike to motivate politicians to change the system, then CTU has my full support. - Dybalaton - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 3:53 pm: CPS teachers are some of the highest compensated out there. They need to accept less if they want all those other things. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 3:59 pm: ==For example, lawmakers dropped a provision that would make it a crime for school employees to have sexual contact with a student regardless of the student’s age.== It’s still against the Chicago Public School code of conduct if both parties are consenting adults. And the state of Illinois has no Romeo/Juliet laws either. We’re stricter than most states about underage people getting into relationships with older people. As far as crime goes, there is no wiggle room. So the student would have to 18 years old. And the teacher would no longer be a teacher. Who would want to get fired with no pension ( and no social security either)? - Homer Simpson's Brain - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 4:02 pm: I think that since the State of Illinois is now contributing pension money to CPS as it does for all other school districts across the state, it’s only fair for CTU to be treated equally to downstate teacher’s unions. I think that 1995 law to be unconstitutional on free speech and equal protection grounds. If the State of Illinois wants to treat CTU’s speech differently from other downstate unions, there better be a compelling reason to do so. - Tim - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 4:05 pm: Class sizes are not something to negotiate with teachers. Period. No matter what you agree to it is never good enough. Teachers in general would be much happier with tiny class sizes and more union members. - City Zen - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 4:20 pm: ==since the State of Illinois is now contributing pension money to CPS as it does for all other school districts across the state== Pension funding was bundled into block grants. CPS chose to not allocate enough of that money into the pensions. That’s not the state’s fault. CPS came waaaay out ahead with those block grants. Don’t let this mis-allocation of those grants fool you. - Homer Simpson's Brain - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 4:37 pm: ==Pension funding was bundled into block grants. CPS chose to not allocate enough of that money into the pensions. That’s not the state’s fault. CPS came waaaay out ahead with those block grants. Don’t let this mis-allocation of those grants fool you.== I seem to recall that Illinois passed an equitable funding law for education wherein it was decided that CPS would receive more money under the equitable funding law’s formula, and that Illinois would pick up the teacher pension contribution CPS was previously responsible for. This pension change means that Illinois now treats CPS the same as it always did for downstate school systems vis-a-vis employer pension contributions. - Thomas Paine - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 4:47 pm: === CPS teachers are some of the highest compensated out there. === That is flat-out false. The average CPS salary is $73K, barely more than the statewide average of $65K, and probably less when you factor in cost-of-living. For some contrast, John Kass and his school teacher wife live in Westmont. The average elementary school teacher in Westmont makes $89K a year. ^ All figures from the latest school report cards. - Dybalaton - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 5:17 pm: For large cities, CPS teachers are very highly compensated. I’m sure wealthy suburbs pay more. - Ed Equity - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 5:22 pm: ====It’s still against the Chicago Public School code of conduct if both parties are consenting adults==== Um, no, it is not good enough. If a student turns 18, then it can be legal, is a good policy, say you Big Bad Wolf? It should never be ok for a teacher and a student to have sex. Never. Ever. Noble recently had a situation where the head of school was systematically grooming girls to have relationships after graduation. 👇 https://chalkbeat.org/posts/chicago/2018/11/13/inappropriate-behavior-with-alumni-led-to-noble-founders-resignation-charter-leaders-tell-staff/ You think this is ok and shouldn’t be made illegal? Very damaging to students and there should be no gray line. Ever. - Tim - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 5:25 pm: Thomas Paine - what is the average years of experience in Westmont vs. CPS. These are union jobs, where you tend to get paid more because you are still alive instead of whether or not you are actually good at your job. I would bet dollars to donuts that the higher pay in Westmont is because the teachers have many more years of experience on average. - Anonymous - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 5:32 pm: When CPS sets reasonable class size limits and every CPS school has a nurse and social worker they will be more likely to keep their best teachers. About one half of all CPS teachers quit within 5 years. The job is that hard with the current class size and lack of support staff. - Enviro - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 5:33 pm: I posted @5:32pm - Oswego Willy - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 5:43 pm: ===I would bet dollars to donuts that the higher pay in Westmont is because the teachers have many more years of experience on average.=== - Tim - Google is your friend. If you’re willing to bet, cite it. - Rudiforte - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 5:55 pm: If CPS closed more underutilized schools it might be able to keep some of the teachers and have some smaller class sizes. - Enviro - Monday, Sep 30, 19 @ 9:23 pm: Here is why good teachers quit. Educators need more than raises to stay in teaching jobs. See link: https://www.chicagobusiness.com/opinion/why-money-cant-buy-you-teachers-educators-need-more-raises - TinyDancer(FKASue) - Tuesday, Oct 1, 19 @ 9:10 am: =If CPS closed more underutilized schools it might be able to keep some of the teachers and have some smaller class sizes.= How would closing schools reduce class size? It’s the other way around. The underutilized schools give you all the space you need to reduce class size. And when 1/3 of your class is BD/LD, whether you have 38 or 19 kids makes all the difference in the world. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Tuesday, Oct 1, 19 @ 10:26 am: ==It should never be ok for a teacher and a student to have sex. Never.== It’s already not ok. That’s what I just told you. It’s against the CPS rules. A teacher who has sex with a student will no longer be a teacher. Then I guess the teacher can be a barista at Starbucks and marry her boyfriend who once was her student but she is no longer a teacher. So we’re talking about a barista and an 18 year old. As far as the story you linked, Milke was made to resign because he behaved inappropriately to women and made some feel uncomfortable. He was creepy, not criminal. He wasn’t accused of having sex with students. He wouldn’t have been prosecuted under a law prohibiting sex between students and teachers. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Tuesday, Oct 1, 19 @ 10:50 am: ==If a student turns 18, then it can be legal, is a good policy, say you Big Bad Wolf?== I never promoted one law over another law. You made a straw man argument. I said your initial statement “CTU fought and won for the right for teachers to have sex w students” was untrue. ==Um, no, it is not good enough.== I made the argument that your first statement was untrue. And that argument still holds. You never argued that your statement was true, your argument is that being fired isn’t a good enough punishment. I get that. But your opinion of what a good enough punishment doesn’t make your first statement true. - JackBolly - Tuesday, Oct 1, 19 @ 11:36 am: Lock them out - fire them if they don’t cross. You can find plenty of new teachers to hire at the current wages and benefits. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Oct 1, 19 @ 11:39 am: === You can find plenty of new teachers to hire=== LOL You realize there’s a state and national teacher shortage, right? Also, how do you think the rest of organized labor would react to such a union busting move? Also too, CPS employs 21,000 teachers. This ain’t some rinky dink little district in the middle of nowhere that could hire a handful of substitute scabs and get by. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.