51 Comments - Precinct Captain - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:02 pm: Even more damning for the Senate’s failure to act on Fix the FOID. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:07 pm: ===Poll: Only 6 percent of Illinoisans strongly oppose fingerprinting for FOID applicants=== And they all comment here. - Romeo - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:08 pm: I am in the 6%. Illinois has draconian gun laws and they do absolutely nothing to determine gun violence at this point. Will I also need to submit fingerprints for free speech, invoking my right to remain silent, or going to church? - Donnie Elgin - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:08 pm: The Dems seek to use FOID law to increase barriers for law abiding residents to exercise 2A rights; while the FOID card itself is under legal scrutiny at the Illinois Supreme Court. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:09 pm: === Will I also need to submit fingerprints for free speech, invoking my right to remain silent, or going to church?=== Probably not. Your straw man might, but not you, no. - Steve - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:13 pm: The next Illinois gun law will be bring the murder rate to lower than Houston. - Romeo - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:14 pm: @Oswego Willy What straw man? The Bill of Rights and the founders of this country were very clear on the right of self-defense and the right to bear arms. - Dotnonymous - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:17 pm: You can’t get 92% agreement that the Sun is shining on a given day…which indicates a certain public desire to prevent gun violence…via intervention. Cultures change over time…Weed culture in…Gun culture out…seems to be the positive trend. - Concerned Dem - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:17 pm: Romeo - Speech that aids you in killing or injuring someone isn’t protected, and will lead you to getting finger printed. Also a church that aids you in killing or injuring someone isn’t a “church”. A gun is specifically designed to kill or injury hence why you might have to clear a higher threshold to legally have it. - Steve - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:18 pm: - Romeo - The first 10 Amendments to the U.S. Constitution were limits on the federal government not state governments. Massachusetts had an official state religion until 1833. - Homefry - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:20 pm: Don’t dis miller’s media friends here, you’ll get your post removed. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:21 pm: === The first 10 Amendments to the U.S. Constitution were limits on the federal government not state governments. Massachusetts had an official state religion until 1833.=== Fingerprinting as an act doesn’t deny you the right. So there that. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:21 pm: ===you’ll get your post removed=== Mostly just morons. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:22 pm: === The Bill of Rights and the founders of this country were very clear on the right of self-defense and the right to bear arms.=== Exercising rights aren’t being stopped by process. - Dotnonymous - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:22 pm: Will I also need to submit fingerprints for free speech, invoking my right to remain silent, or going to church? - Romeo This wouldn’t play at the High School debate club…it plays weak. - Lt. Guv - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:22 pm: Madness has ruled this issue for so long I fear to have hope that perhaps a corner has been turned and that there may be hope for progress. - don the legend - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:24 pm: ==What straw man? The Bill of Rights and the founders of this country were very clear on the right of self-defense and the right to bear arms.== ‘Very Clear’. Now that’s rich. That must be why there is no debate about guns in our state and country. Sheesh. - Donnie Elgin - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:24 pm: “The first 10 Amendments to the U.S. Constitution were limits on the federal government not state governments” McDonald V Chicago - Just Thomas said it well..”the right to keep and bear arms is a privilege of American citizenship that applies to the States through the Fourteenth Amendment’s Privileges or Immunities Clause.” - Donnie Elgin - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:25 pm: meant Justice - njt - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:25 pm: ===What straw man? The Bill of Rights and the founders of this country were very clear on the right of self-defense and the right to bear arms.=== The FOID process is already an extremely low barrier to entry for any hunter/owner. Takes minimal effort if you’re a law abiding citizen. - DoctorStrangeLaw - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:35 pm: -@steve- Have you read the more recent Amendments? Like the one from, say 1868, about Due Process and Incorporation Doctrine. Good old Amendment 14. I know it’s barely 151-years old, but it really is a good one. - Randomly Selected - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:36 pm: Interested to hear if will only be for new applicants or will I have to produce fingerprints when I renew my FOID card. - Nick Name - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:48 pm: ===Will I also need to submit fingerprints for free speech, invoking my right to remain silent, or going to church?=== Lay off the sauce. - ImHere - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:53 pm: To Steve, Donnie got it right above. McDonald applied the 2A against the states. It’s a fundamental right incorporated against the states and requires strict scrutiny when analyzing an equal protection claim against a state. It’s a tough slog and a barrier that shouldn’t be dismissed outright. To the post, Theres a reason the Sen Dems didn’t act on this. Pres Cullerton is no dummy when doing constitutional analysis and likely (and smartly imo) calculated that this could doom the whole FOID program, which is already on shaky legal ground. The argument doesn’t seem popular here, but this is analogous to having to obtain and pay for a permit to attend church, write a blog or exercise your right to due process. Those are fundamental rights that government didn’t give you - you have them just by being. 2A rights are no different. If the GA gives federal courts a reason to strike down FOID, I think they’ll take it. Fingerprints and increased fees will be a bridge too far imho. - Steve - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:54 pm: - DoctorStrangeLaw - Yeah. I heard of John Bingham. - Dance Band on the Titanic - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:55 pm: ===The Bill of Rights and the founders of this country were very clear on the right of self-defense and the right to bear arms=== Don’t forget they were also clear that it was also necessary for that right to be “well regulated”. - chichi55 - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 3:56 pm: Illinois, remove obstacles to vote, while increasing obstacles for owning a gun. - Lostboy - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 4:02 pm: Well regulated in the 18th century meant well organized and had nothing to do with restrictions. - Nagidam - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 4:13 pm: I think Rich is correct when he says take an online survey with a grain of salt. In this case take this survey with a 20 pound salt lick. Not knowing the method of transmission to take the survey my first problem is the people that heard about it heard it from NPR. Half the residents of southern Illinois probably have never heard of NPR. NPR is certainly left leaning to say the least. It would be like going into a kindergarten class and asking who wants ice cream. The other problem with online surveys is you can stuff the ballot box. So if the only people that saw there was a survey were people that follow NPR we can almost guarantee the results. If the gun groups knew there was a survey out there they would have sent out an email and asked people to take the survey. Not real scientific. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 4:20 pm: The landmark Heller SCOTUS decision, written by Scalia, gives us the right to regulate guns. - Grandpa2 - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 4:20 pm: Finger-printing should be required of all Illinois residents. It would be easy to implement at SOS offices when driver’s licenses are renewed. Also, instead of a separate FOID card, firearm owners could simply have an endorsement on their driver’s license. That way I would only need to remember one ID card when I go hunting. Teachers are finger-printed in Illinois. Travel programs such as Global Entry require finger-prints. Eventually, everyone will be finger-printed. If everyone is finger-printed, searching national arrest records will be much easier. - Last Bull Moose - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 4:23 pm: I have a FOID card. The federal government has had my fingerprints for 50 years. No adverse effects yet. I would add fingerprints to the drivers license. No right to drive so no constitutional issue. - Flapdoodle - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 4:30 pm: “===Poll: Only 6 percent of Illinoisans strongly oppose fingerprinting for FOID applicants=== And they all comment here.” — 47th Ward at 3:07 Talk about prophetic . . . . - Steve - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 4:31 pm: Since the U.S. Supreme Court has been applying the incorporation doctrine , in some big cases the last 10 years, I can’t wait for the 7th Amendment to get incorporated. All that’s left is the the 7th and the 3rd. - Fixer - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 4:35 pm: I wonder, given some of the Bill’s that have been introduced regarding biometric data being collected in IL, if that might have something to do with the hesitation in adopting fingerprinting for FOID cards. - Fixer - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 4:36 pm: Bills. Sorry, autocorrect has been weird for me lately. - TheInvisibleMan - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 4:36 pm: Probably because 6% of people would show up as being ineligible to own a firearm. It’s certainly within the margin of error for the 8% of IL residents with felony records. Not all the time, but certainly a majority of the time, the people I hear most strongly opposed to this have a criminal record they don’t want showing up. Of course they are going to oppose it. - Nagidam - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 4:37 pm: ===Teachers are finger-printed in Illinois.=== ===The federal government has had my fingerprints for 50 years.=== There is no constitutional right to a teaching job or a job with the federal government. I for one want this idea passed so it can be struck down in the courts. Cullerton is a fairly smart individual and he sees what direction the Federal Judiciary is heading from an ideological standpoint and SCOTUS leans we all know leans conservative. - revvedup - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 5:11 pm: Merely because people believe something doesn’t make it Constitutional, far less necessary. The 92 percent figure is statistically suspect, given other polls give much lower numbers on other firearm-related topics. Also, the FOID Act itself is before the IL Supreme Court as unconstitutional on various grounds, so adding on more requirements and fees may be a legal nullity shortly, as the ISC has not been shy to throw out guns laws not passing Constitutional muster. - Demoralized - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 5:15 pm: ==The Bill of Rights and the founders of this country were very clear on the right of self-defense and the right to bear arms.== The Court has also been very clear that that right is not absolute and that there can be restrictions placed on that right. I’m not sure, for example, that you have a right to have a drum capable of holding 100 rounds for your firearm like the guy in Ohio had. - JDuc - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 5:26 pm: Wisconsin has a gun murder rate of 2.9/1000. Illinois has a gun murder rate of 3.4/1000. Wisconsin has NO FOID Card requirement. Hmmmmmm - Stas - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 5:48 pm: With the FOID being in front of the ILSC - and possibly being tossed - focus should be on communications between mental health doctors and ISP / ATF on background purchases. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 6:42 pm: Owning firearms is not an unlimited right. Guns can be regulated, per a conservative SCOTUS ruling. “Wisconsin has a gun murder rate of 2.9/1000. Illinois has a gun murder rate of 3.4/1000.” All per capita gun deaths are higher in states with fewer gun regulations, so using murder rates to make an argument about gun deaths would be misleading. - Haymaker - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 7:33 pm: And Illinois gun laws are more restrictive than Wisconsin, your point? - Anyone Remember - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 9:29 pm: Steve - The 3rd Amendment implies a right to privacy. You really want to go there? - Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 9:34 pm: Somebody earlier posted about a straw man argument. Stricter FOID requirements and violent gun related crimes is the ultimate straw man. - Steve - Thursday, Oct 17, 19 @ 10:32 pm: - Anyone Remember - I’m not in charge of the U.S. Supreme Court incorporation schedule. https://www.amazon.com/Fourteenth-Amendment-Bill-Rights/dp/0806121866 - Grandson of Man - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 7:24 am: People strongly support gun reform in America and Illinois. Some people misleadingly use Chicago and other areas of long-standing racism and poverty to argue against gun reform. The overall gun death rates matter, and those are higher per capita in low/no-gun regulation states. Alaska was number one in gun deaths by suicide, and there were more gun suicides in “gun-culture” states. https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-by-gun-top-20-states-with-highest-rates/21/ - @misterjayem - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 7:33 am: “I’ll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, inky fingers” – MrJM - JS Mill - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 8:54 am: =What straw man? The Bill of Rights and the founders of this country were very clear on the right of self-defense and the right to bear arms.= Of course they were talking about muskets and swords. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Friday, Oct 18, 19 @ 10:02 am: == Alaska was number one in gun deaths by suicide, and there were more gun suicides in “gun-culture” states== I’ve read 60 to 65% of gun deaths are suicides. And half of all suicides use guns. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.