ISRA plans veto session lobby day
Monday, Oct 21, 2019 - Posted by Rich Miller
* Center Square…
Gun owners from around the state plan to remind Illinois lawmakers about their opposition to a measure that would require those seeking a Firearm Owners Identification card to submit fingerprints on the first day of the fall legislative session.
Lawmakers return to Springfield on Oct. 28 for the first three days of the veto session. State Rifle Association Executive Director Richard Pearson said he expects it to be a busy session with a lot of different issues coming up. The association will focus on Senate Bill 1966, a measure that would increase fees for Firearm Owner Identification cards.
“Depending on where you are in the state, it drives up the cost between $200 to $300 for every five years so it becomes cost-prohibitive for the law-abiding firearm owner to do this,” Pearson said.
The measure would also require FOID applicants to provide fingerprints at the applicant’s expense.
“Remember the Second Amendment is a fundamental right,” Pearson said. “There’s no other fundamental right that requires fingerprinting or anything even close.”
Setting aside the merits and demerits of the bill and the fact that the concept of fingerprinting FOID card holders appears to have super-strong public support, Rich is a registered lobbyist so he knows the annual fees and other paperwork required to comply with state regulations on that particular fundamental First Amendment right. Rich also helps organize public demonstrations by gun rights activist, so he knows about the extensive local permitting process involved in that fundamental First Amendment right.
* Back to the story…
The association’s initial focus will be on state Senators to fight against Senate Bill 1966. Then Pearson said gun owners will visit with Representatives to weigh in on other gun measures.
State Rep. Bob Morgan, D-Deerfield, who supports banning certain types of firearms like long rifles with certain attachments, doesn’t see that coming together before the end of the year.
“I do have some confidence that we’re going to be talking about those things in the next few weeks,” Morgan said, “I just don’t know given how short of a period of time veto session is that it will get done before the Spring session.”
The House’s FOID bill stalled in the Senate. It’s unclear at the moment if it will get back on track or not.
- Blue Dog Dem - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 11:34 am:
I reapplied for my FOID three weeks ago. Probably my last one.
The process to renew on line is too difficult for us old people. Where is the AARP when we need a class action lawsuit against the state
- Nagidam - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 11:39 am:
===Rich is a registered lobbyist so he knows the annual fees and other paperwork required to comply with state regulations on that particular fundamental First Amendment right.===
I think there is a difference between an individual and a company/association lobbying the General Assembly as it pertains to the 1st amendment. I as an individual can lobby legislators without having to follow State Lobby reporting requirements vs. the EX DIR of ISRA lobbying GA members. The main thrust is state disclosure and ethics laws that must be followed by those choosing to register as a lobbying entity. The key word there is choosing.
- Anyone Remember - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 11:44 am:
Omission filled comment reported by a provider noted for omissions. What could possibly be wrong with this picture? /s
- Anotheretiree - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 11:44 am:
Taking off the liberal hat today, I have to think that if the Poll tax is unconstitutional, then so is a $200 FOID card. Much as I fear the Roberts court and my pension rights, I wonder it SCOTUS would agree ?
- @misterjayem - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 11:46 am:
“The main thrust is state disclosure and ethics laws that must be followed by those choosing to register as a lobbying entity. The key word there is choosing.”
Choosing?
25 ILCS 170/3(a)
The key word there is “shall”
– MrJM
- Last Bull Moose - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 11:51 am:
I received my renewed FOID card in August. No problems with doing it online. Hope to renew it again in 2029, but realize the odds are against me.
The State should have a way to import fingerprints from other databases. Not sure my fingerprint records from 1968 are accessible, but my records from the City of Chicago and State of Illinois should be accessible.
As I have said earlier, I would like to see fingerprints automatically collected the first time one gets a drivers license. Done in large numbers, the cost should not be huge.
- Give Me A Break - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 11:57 am:
” “There’s no other fundamental right that requires fingerprinting or anything even close.”
A well regulated militia perhaps does?
- Ron Burgundy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:06 pm:
“There’s no other fundamental right that requires fingerprinting or anything even close.”
Much harder to kill innocent people with those other rights, too.
- Anotheretiree - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:08 pm:
My beef is with the idea casting a dragnet over all of us looking for criminals while we are exercising a right. Prove you are innocent. Fingerprints have a false positive rate. Same for DNA testing which has scientific flaws. Fingerprints have human interpretation flaws.
- Anyone Remember - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:16 pm:
Last Bull Moose -
As someone who has been fingerprinted twice, unfortunately it is cheaper to have you provide your prints again as opposed to finding your old 10 print card, transport it, and then scan it.
- FFS - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:18 pm:
==Last Bull Moose -
As someone who has been fingerprinted twice, unfortunately it is cheaper to have you provide your prints again as opposed to finding your old 10 print card, transport it, and then scan it.==
It’s not cheaper for the applicant.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:25 pm:
“Depending on where you are in the state, it drives up the cost between $200 to $300 for every five years so it becomes cost-prohibitive for the law-abiding firearm owner to do this,”
Fingerprints don’t change so how often does one get fingerprinted? As for the price per five years I’m not sure what the other $180 is going for. Plus of course the extra $3 a year for the card itself. Here are the prices: https://www.isp.state.il.us/crimhistory/chrifeesched.cfm
- Nagidam - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:26 pm:
@MrJM
===25 ILCS 170/3(a)
The key word there is “shall”===
Correct. After you make the “choice” to work for an entity that “shall” register in 25 ILCS 170/3(a).
In layman’s terms your 1st amendment rights can be regulated per Rich’s comment as you voluntarily made the choice to have them regulated. That is why a person that lobby’s their elected officials are not covered by 25 ILCS 170/3(a).
- Demoralized - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:32 pm:
==your 1st amendment rights can be regulated per Rich’s comment as you voluntarily made the choice to have them regulated==
What? Using that logic your also voluntarily choosing the exercise your 2nd Amendment right. You don’t have to own a gun. It’s a choice.
I’m pretty certain “choice” has nothing to do with exercising rights. Don’t be dense.
- Demoralized - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:34 pm:
==My beef is with the idea casting a dragnet over all of us looking for criminals==
If you aren’t a criminal then why would you care?
- Anonymous - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:34 pm:
To Nagidam’s point, when every day Joe is charged a fee to simply enter the Capitol building (Gotta pay for security, right?), to walk into a legislator’s office to speak to a legislator, or to attend a town hall meeting with a legislator, then the First Amendment fee analogy would be the same. But Everyday Joe is not charged fees by the State for such activities.
- Demoralized - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:36 pm:
==The process to renew on line is too difficult for us old people==
If renewal is that difficult for you then perhaps you shouldn’t own a firearm. Sheesh.
==Where is the AARP when we need a class action lawsuit against the state==
A class action because you aren’t smart enough to figure out how to renew it? Again, if you aren’t smart enough for that then maybe you shouldn’t have a gun anyway.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:36 pm:
== The process to renew on line is too difficult for us old people.==
I didn’t renew online but printed the application then filled it out old school style with a pen. Some computers don’t have the software to fill in blanks.
My gripe is printing out my passport photo, making sure it was the right size, cutting it out with scissors, attaching it to the application, and then they used my driver’s license photo anyway. Why make me do all that?
- Well Regulated - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:37 pm:
Texas License to Carry Handgun, under State law, the Dept of Public Safety must conduct a fingerprint based state and FBI Criminal History background check as part of the application process for both original and renewal applicants.
- Demoralized - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:38 pm:
Perhaps one day someone can explain to me why people belive the 2nd Amendment is somehow more sacred than the rest of the Constitution? All rights can be limited. All of the. The Court has said that over and over. How far those limitations go is always the question. But I wish people would stop pretending that the 2nd Amendment is somehow more sacrosanct than the others and that gun ownership cannot possibly be regulated.
- Nagidam - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:43 pm:
@Demoralized
Please go take a reading comprehension class. And then go re-read the comments on this topic. Or make sure you read @anonymous 12:34pm. This is the closest description to something you don’t understand.
- Demoralized - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:48 pm:
Nagidam
bite me
- ffs - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:48 pm:
== All rights can be limited. All of the. The Court has said that over and over.==
But the ability to charge fees is not unlimited. Whether the State can require certain things for background checks is one question, but how much they can pass the cost for doing so on to a citizen trying to exercise that right is a separate, important question. There is a limit. You can’t set fee’s so high as to essentially prohibit a person from exercising a right because they can’t afford it. The question for the Courts is: how much is too much. They’re, at the very least, pushing those bounds with this bill.
- Demoralized - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:49 pm:
Ok Mr. Wizard. You want to attempt to explain how the 2nd Amendment is somehow more sacrosanct thant the others? I await your brillianc.e
- Lone Wolf - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:51 pm:
Well regulated, that is for concealed carry. No license is required just to own a gun, let alone fingerprints.
- Donnie Elgin - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:53 pm:
The FOID card structure will be lucky to survive scrutiny at the Illinois Supreme Court. The court may narrowly limit FOID rules, or it may be thrown out entirely.
- Nagidam - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:56 pm:
===Nagidam
bite me===
Well that’s a well reasoned response. Rich Miller you ain’t.
- Blue Dog Dem - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:11 pm:
Its worth repeating. The FOID process does nothing to lessen gun violence.
- Jocko - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:20 pm:
==Remember the Second Amendment is a fundamental right==
and…to hear Richard Pearson tell it, one free from responsibility.
- Lone Wolf - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:36 pm:
And how does an unwillingness to go along with the anti-gun crowd equate to irresponsibility?
- Just Observing - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:44 pm:
=== “There’s no other fundamental right that requires fingerprinting or anything even close.” ===
=== ==== Much harder to kill innocent people with those other rights, too. === ===
Free speech and religion have killed far more people than private gun ownership. Just saying.
- 17% Solution - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:48 pm:
“Free speech and religion have killed far more people than private gun ownership. Just saying.”
Sure. When you add weapons to free speech and religion. Just saying.
- Anyone Remember - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:55 pm:
FFS - “It’s not cheaper for the applicant.”
No, but how does saving the applicant’s $ create the necessary $ and appropriations to pay for all the government agencies to find, transport, and determine if the 1968 card can be scanned?
IF you can figure that out, please share.
- Just Observing - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:00 pm:
=== Sure. When you add weapons to free speech and religion. Just saying. ===
Ha. Fair.
- IL-ANNOID - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:04 pm:
I wonder if there is anyone here that would favor What Rep Willis said during the hearing on Fix the FOID Bill — that is, if it would make us all safer, then everyone in IL should be fingerprinted as a matter of course. At what point does the principle get violated? Get a DL or State ID, get fingerprinted. Do you really trust the State of IL will your biometric data as a matter of course?
- Blue Dog Dem - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:04 pm:
I remember when kool aid was used for the sake of something as well.
- Motambe - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:10 pm:
First, if the Second Amendment does not prohibit the licensing (FOID card) and fingerprinting (SB 1966) in Illinois, then the First Amendment should not prevent the licensing and fingerprinting of journalists and media folks in this state. Let’s do that to get a Handle on the assault on common sense by both right wing and left wing media people.
Second, some of us live in conservative areas represented by Democrat senators and representatives. If SB 1966 passes the legislature with their votes, those districts might flip in the next election.
- Anonymous - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:11 pm:
“ Get a DL or State ID, get fingerprinted. Do you really trust the State of IL with your biometric data as a matter of course?”
The state already has my fingerprints for a foster parent license. What am I supposed to be afraid of? In what way am I supposed to not trust the state of Illinois? What are they going to do to me?
- IL-ANNOID - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:13 pm:
To the costs –
Current cost is $10 for 10 years. Discussion of raising it to $50 for 5 years, which would equate to $100 for the same 10 years span, so $90 increase. Most LiveScan vendors for fingerprints charge $65 to $85 dollars. That brings it to $175 for the first year. There was talk of limiting the amount charge for the fingerprints to $35, but I am not sure that was every really allowed (gov’t telling a private business what they can/cannot charge for a service).
But then again, many of the same people saying the cost is not an issue are the same ones that swallowed a license plate fee increase coming Jan 1, a doubled gas tax and many others that I am not going to list here. The difference is that if it chills a Constitutional right, then there is/should be more scrutiny.
- IL-ANNOID - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:14 pm:
“The state already has my fingerprints for a foster parent license. What am I supposed to be afraid of? In what way am I supposed to not trust the state of Illinois? What are they going to do to me?”
Not necessarily the State, but the State’s ability to secure your biometric data from others. Same issue with scanning faces for facial recognition.
- Thomas Paine - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:15 pm:
I have no problem waiving fees for FOID card applicants who cannot afford them, and encourage Mr. Pearson to present a sliding scale model.
I would also recommend a tiered-FOId card that would only be for long rifles used for hunting in Illinois, and implement an entrance fee for Illinois state parks and hunting areas, a portion of which would be used to reduce the fees for a FOID card for hunting weapons.
an entrance fee is long-overdue for Illinois DNR lands, and ought to be used in part to support wildlife management.
- Jocko - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:18 pm:
==how does an unwillingness to go along with the anti-gun crowd equate to irresponsibility?==
Gary Martin (Aurora shooter) exposed the flaws of the current FOID system, specifically having to take an applicant AT THEIR WORD when completing the application. Had he not tried to expedite his concealed carry license, we’d have never known Gary lied on the form.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:32 pm:
From the Chicago Tribune: May 30, 2019; “The measure would essentially quadruple the current application fee, from $10 for a FOID card that lasts 10 years to $20 for a five-year license. If the bill becomes law, applicants would also have to pay a one-time fingerprinting fee if their prints aren’t already on file with state police. The bill caps the cost fingerprinting vendors can charge at $30.“
A three dollar a year increase, and a $30 one time ever fee if Illinois doesn’t already have your prints.
- Donnie Elgin - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 3:06 pm:
“The bill caps the cost fingerprinting vendors can charge at $30.”
Love the governmental overreach; to justify so called Gun control we also need price controls.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 3:46 pm:
== Love the governmental overreach; to justify so called Gun control we also need price controls.==
Or maybe that is what the State of Illinois will pay to a contractor willing to do the fingerprinting. And maybe some company will want to have 2.3 million new customers. I’m not sure how much force will be involved to get a company interested in that.
- Nagidam - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 4:03 pm:
=== Or maybe that is what the State of Illinois will pay to a contractor willing to do the fingerprinting. And maybe some company will want to have 2.3 million new customers. I’m not sure how much force will be involved to get a company interested in that. ===
The market has already set the price. Would an enterprising capitalist want to take the business at a discount? Maybe. They still have to have the staff and locations to process 2.3 million “Customers”. By locations I mean every place in the state. Unless the “State” thinks they can force people to travel distances to get their “State” mandated fingerprints to get their FOID card to exercise a constitutional right. I can’t wait for the gang bangers causing all the havoc in the city to get fingerprinted.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 4:37 pm:
The State Police already charges $20 for fingerprints, a bit more in some cases. Nothing in the law says a private company who is already is fingerprinting (for non FOID card things) has to change their price. ( I.e supposed “price controls”).
The State of Illinois hires private venders for all sorts of things and at some point during the procurement process, one of the parties has to propose a price. How is this different?
- Nagidam - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 8:44 pm:
@DBB Wolf
===Nothing in the law says a private company who is already is fingerprinting (for non FOID card things) has to change their price. ( I.e supposed “price controls”).===
In the ‘Fix the FOID Act’ or SB1966, Floor amendment #2:
In the amendatory changes to the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act, provides that a live scan fingerprint vendor may not charge more than $30 per set of fingerprints.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Tuesday, Oct 22, 19 @ 12:55 pm:
Again: The law says nothing about what a vender can charge for a nonFOID fingerprint. If a vender wants to work with the Illinois State Police $30 is the cost. Same as if a vender wants to clean an office building, it’s done for x amount of cost. The State makes many agreements about costs with vendors. Same as it always was.