Unclear on the concept
Tuesday, Feb 4, 2020 - Posted by Rich Miller
* Some bizarrely false information was recently posted on the widely read Second City Cop blog…
Opening the State Constitution?
This is the first we’re hearing of this and it needs thorough researching and verification. Opening the State Constitution via a back door method which would end up screwing up all current and future pensioners:
When FOP Board Members like Donahue, continue to support their progressive political pets, like Senator Rob Martwick, they are supporting opening the Illinois Constitution. Opening the Illinois Constitution will allow these progressive politicians to change the state’s pension clause.
The FOP has continually claimed politicians like Martwick and Madigan are fighting to protect or pensions and that’s what makes them “qualified” to be recommended by our Union. Donahue has thrown 10’s of thousands of dollars of our dues, at Martwick and Madigan to “protect our pensions.”
The interesting part of this is, politicians like Martwick and Madigan have been pushing the Graduated Income Tax or also known as the Progressive Tax , since 2016. If the Graduated Income Tax passes, the Illinois State Constitution will be opened up so the wording can be amended to change the flat tax to a progressive tax. What Donahue isn’t telling the members is that while the Sate Constitution is open, to amend the tax clause, it will also be open to change the state’s pension clause. That piece of paper that states, “Membership in any pension or retirement system of the State, any unit of local government or school district, or any agency or instrumentality thereof, shall be an enforceable contractual relationship, the benefits of which shall not be diminished or impaired,” is all that’s standing in the way of politicians, like Martwick, from completely gutting our pensions.
Once they get their Graduated Income Tax passed, they can use that as a back door to change our pension clause to diminish or impair our pensions. So Donahue is supporting a politician who is not interested in protecting our pensions, but is pushing to open a door for them to walk right in an take it.
So they can use the Graduated Income Tax as a crowbar to amend the Constitution to comply with the new passed law? If we’re understanding this, it would circumvent the Constitutional Convention vote that is required to be held every 20 years and endanger all pensions immediately.
That just couldn’t be more false. I don’t know how anyone could even remotely believe it. One amendment does not “open up the constitution” to further changes. If it did, the Tribune would be loving the governor’s proposal. Instead, it complains that the governor won’t also agree to a pension amendment.
- Capitol Text - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:18 am:
Next con con vote is 2028
- Montrose - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:27 am:
” If we’re understanding this…”
You aren’t. You really, really aren’t.
- Montrose - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:29 am:
“it needs thorough researching and verification”
which some would say you should do before writing and publishing a post about it.
- Perrid - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:30 am:
Do, do they not understand that an amendment isn’t a convention?
- Cubs in '16 - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:34 am:
If commas were pension benefits that blogger would be sitting pretty.
- Tawk - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:35 am:
This is batty. But they are sniffing around something that would affect retirees: a “penny” retirement tax that would not be allowed under the current flat tax clause.
- Lester Holt’s Mustache - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:35 am:
Eh it looks like some cop has a grudge against Donahue, decided to use the blog to get at him with a bunch of nonsense. It’s probably not supposed to be accurate, just inflammatory
- Cubs in '16 - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:36 am:
@Perrid
Not only that but an amendment can somehow “circumnavigate” the entire con con process.
- Chris - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:39 am:
“ It’s probably not supposed to be accurate, just inflammatory”
I’ve never seen anything like that from SCCB before. [/s]
- JP Altgeld - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:39 am:
Anyone reading that blog for anything other than high comedy is making a big mistake.
- Commonsense in Illinois - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:39 am:
“I don’t know how anyone could remotely believe it…”
Simple…most Illinoisans have never bothered to read the State Constitution, let alone have a clue as to how it can be amended. This was just to throw red meat at the base.
- Will Caskey - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:41 am:
OMG “progressive political pets”
Cop blogs are hilarious
- Just Me - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:42 am:
It is criminal to spread false information like this. Shameful. I’m against the tax increase referendum myself, but not with lies.
- Ohwahtagu, Siam - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:43 am:
Never let facts get in the way of a rant.
- Three Dimensional Checkers - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:50 am:
Second City Cop is often good for CPD gossip, but otherwise they have a tenuous relationship to facts.
- Cop Wife - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:51 am:
Looks like the election for FOP leadership is underway and the Second City Cop blogger and Donahue are on different sides.
- Nick Name - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:51 am:
===I don’t know how anyone could even remotely believe it===
Just check out the comments on that blog. Ugh.
We live in an era when a certain and sizeable segment of the population has been conditioned by media personalities to believe any ridiculous “theory.” For example, Rush Limbaugh, who revealed yesterday that he has state 4 lung cancer, has told his listeners that there is no connection between smoking (or second hand smoke) and lung cancer. And they believe it.
- Steve Rogers - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 10:58 am:
Yeah, and backdoor changes to our Constitution will result in godless socialism. /s
- A Cop Who Votes D - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 11:03 am:
I’m with Lester, someone does have an axe to grind with Donahue. I believe that was actually a comment on there by a poster that started the whole thing. Though I must say, Martwick’s chumminess with Arena doesn’t help him much.
- Sue - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 11:05 am:
The fair tax actually does impact exempt retirement income. All taxpayers’ retirement income hoes into the base when determining the new rate of 8 percent. Likely to go higher in the future. If you have 200k of retirement income. Your first dollar of regular income is taxed at 8 percent. Just saying The new regime definitely impacts retirement income.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 11:16 am:
Sue, retirement income is excluded from taxation.
- OutOfState - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 11:18 am:
===The new regime definitely impacts retirement income.===
If you want to look at it that way. Really, it just makes sure that a person making over $200k a year pays into the correct bracket on regular income. I don’t know about you, but I’m not too worried about the people paying no taxes on their $200k annual retirement income, even if they have to pay a higher rate on *additional* income they’re earning.
To the post…
Unions don’t “throw dues” at politicians. They are legally banned from doing so. Unions contribute to political campaigns through voluntary contributions from their members.
- Larry Bowa Jr. - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 11:22 am:
SCC is the same guy who wrote that “they were all celebrating on Devon Ave.” when 9/11 happened. Truth has no place within the digital walls of Second City Cop. Baseless paranoid grievances are highly encouraged, however.
- Bourbon Street - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 11:24 am:
Unfortunately, this rumor is not confined to SCC or the FOP or the CPD. Months ago, I heard this theory about the Illinois Constitution being “opened up” from a well-educated friend who was clearly worried about it because she has a government pension. I had to assure her that it was baseless. I’m not sure who is perpetrating this nonsense or on what platforms, but it’s out there.
- Norseman - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 11:24 am:
RSEA has received one inquiry from a member because of this phony propaganda. The depths some will go to deceive folks.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 11:31 am:
== Some bizarrely false information was recently posted on the widely read Second City Cop blog…==
Dog bites man.
- Anyone Remember - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 11:43 am:
Bourbon Street
“I’m not sure who is perpetrating this nonsense or on what platforms, but it’s out there.”
[Channeling Ben Stein] “Tillman? Tillman? Tillman?”
- Sue - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 11:53 am:
Rich - correct next If I am wrong. A taxpayer let’s say has 100k of retirement income and 150 of non- retirement income. The 50 above 200 is taxed at the higher rate as the 100 exempt income Is counted toward the 200 threshold. So in a way the retirement income is at least causing the taxpayer to enter into the fair tax range
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 11:55 am:
- Sue -
How many folks can fit into that straw man?
0.03% of ALL taxpayers, or is that too high?
- Terry Salad - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 11:57 am:
Second City Cop — my go-to place for disinformation and propaganda. Too many people take him seriously.
- Sue - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 11:59 am:
OW- more then you think. There are plenty of retired teachers drawing 100k pensions and they are married to folks with incomes. You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise and over time the threshold will be lowered as the State needs the revenue. All I am saying is it is no longer true that retirement income is exempt as it is counted toward the base
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 12:04 pm:
- Sue -
How many? Get me a number.
Less that 0.5%?
The total over $250K is 3%…
Thanks.
- Candy Dogood - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 12:09 pm:
===A taxpayer let’s say has 100k of retirement income and 150 of non- retirement income===
So what you’re saying is that in addition to not wanting to have retirement income taxed, higher income retirees shouldn’t even have it counted as income for the purposes of calculating their income based off of tax rates?
They haven’t actually written the law yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this wound up occurring just because of where subtractions come into play on the current IL-1040.
But, good golly, yes retirement income should be counted when calculating income for the purposes of an income based tax rate. The income itself isn’t taxed, but your income should determine the income tax rate you pay under a progressive tax system.
=== they are married to folks with incomes. ===
The income threshold changes for folks that are married.
- foster brooks - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 12:13 pm:
I don’t know how anyone could even remotely believe it… I see a lot of MAGA hats out there
- Foreign Man from the Foreign Land - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 12:26 pm:
Not surprising given how much conspiracy-laden misinformation swirled about during the police/fire consolidation debate last fall. My sister’s a suburban cop, and her observations on the matter made me wonder what Lev Parnas-style source she was consulting.
- Candy Dogood - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 12:29 pm:
I don’t mean to be harsh, but the unfunded pension liability represents the cost of state services and public goods from decades ago until relatively recently. These expenses weren’t paid at the time the services and goods were delivered and taxes weren’t high enough to cover them, so they got kicked down the road.
At the moment we have a massive pension liability payment which is basically debt and interest we’ve been saddled with by our past selves when thinking of the State of Illinois as our shared entity.
Right now, it costs us billions of dollars a year to exclude federally taxed retirement income from the Illinois base income for tax purposes. More than half of that benefit goes to households making more than $75k a year.
It in of itself is a ridiculous situation where the folks who most likely benefited directly from these services and public goods they never paid for are now excluding all or a portion of their income from tax leaving younger Illinoisans holding the bag.
To ask to have that income excluded for determining the rate because someone is making more than a quarter million dollars a year from multiple sources of income is a little ridiculous.
What on earth line of thought do people have that makes think think that their retirement income should just be magical and have no factor in their tax situation at all?
The state is literally in this situation because of the flat refusal of our past version of ourselves to be willing to pay the cost of services and public goods, and having people who were a part of the body politic then come to tell the body politic now about how they don’t want to pay for the mess they made is ridiculous.
Just ridiculous.
Take your good fortune, pay your taxes, and prey this amendment passes otherwise your public pensions are on the table. Period.
- Amalia - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 12:41 pm:
so maybe this incorrect info won’t flow into the media. but there are many stories which appear in Second city cop and are then fact checked and picked up elsewhere. it has a perspective for sure, but I don’t blanket discount their information
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 12:45 pm:
Amalia, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
- Ano - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 12:53 pm:
Those who received low cost goods and services from public employees courtesy of diverted retirement payments away from public employees are probably incapable of believing themselves to be recipients of good fortune. Knowing many of them, they think the freebies and generous compensation packages—-and the are definitely packages—are just the norm. What everyone gets. They are ignorant of what public employees “get”. When a state has to pass legislation mandating a minimum salary for starting teachers and a whole slew of current teachers just got a whopping raise…………just sayin Try saving for retirement on that.
- levivotedforjudy - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 1:09 pm:
It is inaccurate, but just plausible enough to scare some people to siphon off another sliver of support for the graduated income tax. It’s sort of brilliant in a Montgomery Burns kind of way.
- illinois_citizen - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 1:21 pm:
The state is literally in this situation because of the flat refusal of our past version of ourselves.
Retirement income is exempt from taxation in Illinois (I am sure the state will allow you to pay more if you wish). Public pensions are constitutionally protected in Illinois as well. What is just ridiculous is giving the state more tax money as if that would solve anything. The last income tax increase albeit was a temporary tax increase our unfunded liability increased. Doing the same thing over and over…
- MrX - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 1:22 pm:
Who has time to fact check when they devote so much time trying to come up with unfunny nicknames for government officials.
- Candy Dogood - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 1:25 pm:
===- Ano - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 12:53 pm:===
In our situation it is not a tit-for-tat. We all bear some portion of responsibility for Illinois’ fiscal situation and we all should be involved in addressing the situation.
An important factor in capitalism is the notion that those who benefit the most from society owe the most to the society that allowed them to succeed.
The way forward isn’t pointing figures at the recipients of public aid, much of which is funded by federal block grants anyway, but in creating a state that prides itself on fiscal accountability and policy solutions over fantasies.
- Anonish - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 1:28 pm:
Good thing these folks are involved in any kind of legal process or enforcement of la…oh
- Sue - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 2:25 pm:
No one should hold out much help in terms of the legislature tackling the pension mess. The Governor in order to get buy in for the police / fire pension consolidation- agreed to forego part of the tier 2 cost savings Quinn fought to achieve.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 2:32 pm:
===our unfunded liability increased===
Yeah, it’s called the ramp. The state should be paying more, but that’s a whole lot of money.
- theCardinal - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 2:38 pm:
There could be “Total anarchy …Dogs and cats living together real end of the world stuff” —Peter Vinckman
That person should probably take a HS law class
- Marty Meh-lan - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 3:11 pm:
Just remember, the courts have upheld that it is accecptable to discriminate against police department applicants with high IQs. The ramifications of such actions are no more apparent than on that blog.
Also, I would like to thank the commenters on Capitol Fax for their usage of grammar and punctuation. I needed to review the comment section on here as eye-bleach. Yeeesh.
- Leslie K - Tuesday, Feb 4, 20 @ 9:20 pm:
===It’s probably not supposed to be accurate, just inflammatory===
Sadly, SCC is intellectually challenged enough that they probably do believe it. Sigh