“There are only bad and less bad choices”
Friday, Apr 10, 2020 - Posted by Rich Miller
* Sen. Dave Syverson (R-Rockford)…
If the goal is to keep social distancing as a way to bend the virus curve, then the government is sending mixed messages.
On one hand, the government is shutting down small businesses who were following the social distancing rules and had smaller customer bases, while concurrently allowing big box stores to remain open, with the implication that bigger stores must be safer.
Here are a few examples of many mixed messages that do not seem to pass the public commonsense test:
A flower store on Perryville was informed that they could not sell flowers, not even curbside. The reasoning behind the decision; public safety was at risk. Yet on the very same street, Lowes, Home Depot and Meijer’s all have their flower departments fully open.
I think it’s a reasonable question. So I put it to the governor’s office by using the example of small clothing stores that are closed while big box stores stayed open and are selling clothes.
* Response from Jordan Abudayyeh…
COVID-19 has brought us unprecedented challenges that no one could have imagined just a few months ago.
Like the governor has said, there are no good or easy choices. Right now, there are only bad and less bad choices.
For many communities in Illinois, big box stores are the only pharmacy or grocery store in town. The administration prioritized keeping open essential businesses so residents would have access to food and medicine during this crisis.
Again, there are no perfect solutions. Once we’re able to test expansively, closely trace the virus, and offer treatment we look forward to returning to some semblance of normalcy.
Thoughts?
…Adding… Since I asked Jordan about clothing stores, she just sent me this about garden shops…
The Department of Commerce and Economic Development (DCEO)’s original guidance provided that “stores that sell supplies that assist with either (a) agriculture; or (b) products for landscaping can continue to sell those products to the public, provided adequate social distancing is complied with.” This guidance remains valid.
DCEO has expanded their original guidance so that all garden stores, garden centers, and nurseries (even those that did not fall within our original guidance above) are allowed to sell products for delivery or pick-up. That expanded guidance states: “Garden stores and greenhouses can remain open for purposes of maintaining inventory, and to fulfill online and phone orders for pick-up or delivery only.” This guidance applies to both standalone stores as well as garden centers that are part of a larger store (such as a garden center that is part of a hardware store or big box stores such as Lowes or Home Depot).
So, Syverson could be dealing with a local control issue. Anyway, the overall point still stands.
- anon - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:17 am:
Home Depot, Mendard, and Lowes all have Pharmacies? Don’t know about that, but they do sell flowers.
- SpfdNewb - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:20 am:
Hardware stores should not be open imho. What essential service do they provide outside of staff resources during an emergency (like tornado relief and rebuilding)?
- Practical Politics - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:20 am:
Some measures have to be made available to permit the small businesses to reopen. I fear a future in which only the big box stores, franchises and chains survive the quarantine and social distancing policies.
My guess is that hand sanitizers and disinfectant wipes are going to have to be stocked by all businesses admitting the public to their premises.
- SAP - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:25 am:
Hardware stores sell bleach and other cleaning products as well as one or 2 things that keep people’s home habitable, which helps with the social distancing. They are essential.
That said, curbside retail seems just as reasonable as ordering online and having the UPS guy deliver.
- Sterling - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:27 am:
> Hardware stores should not be open imho. What essential service do they provide outside of staff resources during an emergency (like tornado relief and rebuilding)?
My toilet broke last week. Should I have just gone in the yard for the rest of the month?
- Fixer - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:27 am:
Home Depot and a local hardware store being open we’re fairly important to me yesterday when I had a water line break while working on a project at home. If they’d been closed I wouldn’t have been able to fix it and get water back on at home until a plumber was able to come out. Anecdotal, yes, but an example of why some of these places are being considered essential right now.
- Bruce (no not him) - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:28 am:
There has to be some type of reasonable compromise. I think clothing stores and florists are as essential as liquor or weed stores.
- Pundent - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:29 am:
=What essential service do they provide outside of staff resources during an emergency (like tornado relief and rebuilding)?=
Do you have a sump pump? Maybe a roof that suddenly starts to leak or furnace that needs to be repaired?
- Downstate Rube - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:29 am:
Some essential employees need supplies from hardware stores. If your toilet quits working, do you want to wait until this is over to fix it.
- Bruce (no not him) - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:29 am:
Every essential service is someone else’s luxury. (hit send to soon on last post)
- Cool Papa Bell - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:30 am:
This plant issue has been a sticking point for some. My understanding is a greenhouse that sells plants is told to be closed. A store (big box or small hardware store) that sells plants and gardening supplies is open.
There was parsing on the supplies side of sales.
If you are really trying here you almost have to block sales of particular items at a store that “should’n't” be sold. So Lowes can sell a plunger or sump pump but can’t sell you a lawn chair or petunias.
But those small businesses are the ones that really need to be open right now and they should be trusted to operate the right way and be closed down if they aren’t.
- 618er - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:31 am:
Is this a florist or a lawn and garden type store?
He’s got some valid points. Why can some of the big box stores sell clothes and electronics for example, but small businesses have to stay shut down?
I hope some of this is being thought about.. I hope we can, with public safety at the forefront of thought, figures out ways to ease some restrictions on some of these businesses opening back up.
- Leatherneck - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:31 am:
I’m not aware of anything like this in Illinois yet, but in some areas (including Vermont and Howard County, Indiana), big-box stores like Walmart and Target are banned from selling “non-essential” items like clothes and electronics for the duration of the pandemic. In favor of focusing on the basics: food, meds, health care, cleaning supplies.
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/costco-walmart-target-stop-selling-non-essential-items-select-states-2020-4-1029075941
- former southerner - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:31 am:
Those big box home stores sell essential hardware, plumbing, electrical repair parts for tradesmen and homeowners and they should remain open. For a lot of homeowners, they are likely better off doing their own repair work when possible now in order to reduce the odds of exposure in their home instead of having tradespeople who are exposed to multiple potential “carriers”.
- TheInvisibleMan - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:34 am:
I have no problem with large big box stores being open, or small hardware stores.
With more people staying home, it is vital that they be able to repair anything in their home during this time to make it more enjoyable or worst case even habitable if something critical were to happen like a broken water pipe.
Especially for the people who can fix it themselves, without having to call over a service tech into their house, introducing another path for contamination. Especially because that service person has likely recently been inside a lot of other homes.
Pharmacies also sell candy bars, but candy-only stores are closed. Is that not fair to candy stores?
It’s not that everything in a store has to be essential for it to be open, its just that enough items there are considered essential for it to be open. Big box stores easily fit into that category.
- NIU Grad - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:34 am:
“Hardware stores should not be open”
My landlord company recently announced that they’re getting an uptick in maintenance requests, as more people are home and utilizing electricity, plumbing, etc. over a prolonged period of time. Also, construction has been deemed an essential service (from building houses, to large-scale roadway and building projects).
- Dance Band on the Titanic - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:34 am:
===Hardware stores should not be open imho. What essential service do they provide outside of staff resources during an emergency (like tornado relief and rebuilding)?===
A homeowner could contend with a multitude of emergencies ranging from a busted, leaking toilet to a broken electric switch to a failed sump pump to needing a sheet of plywood to cover a broken window. Hardware stores are a necessity.
- Scott Cross for President - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:34 am:
Sen. Syverson: “the government is sending mixed messages”
Correct. The number for the White House switchboard is 202-456-1414. Ask for Mr. Trump. Or Mr. Pence. Or Mr. Kuschner. You know what, just ask for whoever is in charge this morning. (Be forewarned: it’s now $50/minute and the hold music is old Trump University ads.)
- NIU Grad - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:35 am:
I hope that Sen. Syverson is looking for real solutions in all of this, and not just returning to his partisan nit-picking, which has only recently evolved from his initial position of not taking this seriously.
- Give Me A Break - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:36 am:
The Springfield Scheels store remains open due to their firearms sales however they are letting people wander the entire store and buy anything they carry. Seems strange.
- Leatherneck - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:39 am:
“Hardware stores should not be open imho. What essential service do they provide outside of staff resources during an emergency (like tornado relief and rebuilding)?”
—————-
Tell that to many people between Springfield and Lincoln (among other areas in the state) that were pounded by severe weather and squall lines late Wednesday afternoon and evening.
This included 3-inch hail between Sherman and Springfield (near Riverside Park):
https://nwschat.weather.gov/lsr/#ILX,DVN,LOT,LSX,IND/202004081700/202004090200/0101
Also lots of wind damage reports especially in the Lincoln and Decatur areas too. I’m sure some hardware is needed to clean up those messes–let alone if there could be broken windows and windsheilds due to the large hail.
- Candy Dogood - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:45 am:
Does our kind Senator mean a florist or a place selling live plants?
Did they want to “sell curbside” or take orders for pick up or delivery?
Selling curbside to me means something much different than taking orders for delivery but these days I am not apt to trust any public statement from the right side of the isle as they try to shift the focus from the failures of the GOP federal administration to more mundane factors.
- Been There - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 11:49 am:
===Hardware stores should not be open imho. What essential service do they provide outside of staff resources during an emergency (like tornado relief and rebuilding)?====
Uhm…your toilet breaks, your smoke detector expires, your window gets broken, etc etc
- Gonzo - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 12:16 pm:
A lot of small local florists don’t offer lawn/ garden or landscaping and are shutdown while greenhouses are open. To Syverson’s example, in my area the only other option for fresh cut flowers are big box places. One is essential (WalMart), the other isn’t (local florist) and that’s the tough reality for most small businesses right now but necessary to help bend the curve. I see the big issue not being one of just fairness, but that the same many hands are touching these non-essential products from cultivation, shipping, delivery, stocking, and eventually to customers…with no knowledge if all those other hands are taking precautions to help prevent spread of virus. The essential stores should focus on selling essential items. This could also help staffing demand at the box stores allowing more employees to stay at home.
At the same time the goalposts and promises to small biz owners from the stimulus and unemployment benefits need to actually become available. Forced to close but little yet to actually help. (end rant)
- Responsa - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 12:26 pm:
In general, people just want fairness and are conscious of what they perceive to be hypocrisy especially in times of trial. The governor might do well to put a few staff members on this issue and look honestly at situations where in their attempt to be safe they are (unintentionally) looking inconsistent and unfair in application. It should not be difficult to make some easy and reasonable adaptations to the official “rules” in those cases especially when struggling small businesses are concerned.
- Captain Obvious - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 12:38 pm:
Wonder if Dick’s has any regrets about dropping gun sales. They could still be open like Scheel’s. And clothing is essential. What if you are out of clean underwear and just not feeling like laundry that day? Kidding aside, businesses that could abide by social distancing should be open, regardless if the government deems them essential. If Walmart can be open there is no reason Kohl’s can’t be. The government is picking winners and losers in the marketplace and that is not right. If it is so dangerous that all these other businesses should be closed, then those that are open should be much more closely monitored and regulated to ensure all social distancing guidelines are followed. You can’t have a free for all at one store while you shut down competitors.
- JS Mill - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 12:58 pm:
= people just want fairness and are conscious of what they perceive to be hypocrisy especially in times of trial=
I respectfully disagree. People want what they want.
Fairness and sameness are not the same thing and there will be inconsistencies. No matter how hard, or how genuine an effort Pritzker makes. There will be myriad complaints.
A friend from Michigan told me he wanted to get out in the yard and do some work but his Home Depot garden dept. is closed. That does not make much sense to me, working in the yard is good for people who want to do it. They could limit the number of people in the garden area and enforce social distancing.
- Mason born - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 1:04 pm:
Not to pile on SpfdNewb and the comment that hardware stores aren’t essential but it kind of highlights the problem with the Governor or any official deeming what is essential. Essential varies a lot by individual and circumstance. Take nurseries if you just want to put out petunias not that big of deal if you can’t get them but if a portion of your summer income is selling tomatoes or other vegetables it’s getting kind of important to get those plants hardened off and ready to go. I think the Gov has done well so far, this is a bit of a unique circumstance, Thank God.
- Fighter of Foo - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 1:19 pm:
I understand why we are doing what have until after Easter. The math doesn’t add up. I understand we need to distance until Easter so people don’t get together. But, what will we actually learn from this? In Illinois, the discrepancy between the 800 plus school districts are in full display. North shore suburban districts have e learning with the laptops. Can we have a serious conversation about consolidation after this? I am not saying the same tired studies by the teachers unions, IASBO, name your special interest administrator group that the leaders receive TRS. You will here its too expensive to consolidate. They would rather have the kids in the south not be able to login to a Stevenson or New Trier AP ‘pick the course’ and remotely learn. I worked close with the ISBE close for many years. The politics and nonsense has to end. I hope we actually learn something. Let’s look at the data in a new way. Oh, what about if we were unseasonably warm in the Chicago area? Would the gang shootings stop? or will they continue? It’s time to do better and be better. Most important, get back to work The only model that is accurate is the longer this goes, the depression will hit.
- Pundent - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 1:25 pm:
=If Walmart can be open there is no reason Kohl’s can’t be. The government is picking winners and losers in the marketplace and that is not right.=
Per their website - “Kohl’s announced today that as the result of the escalating COVID-19 pandemic the company will temporarily close its stores nationwide effective Thursday, March 19 at 7 p.m. local time.”
Dick’s made a similar decision and it had nothing to do with a lack of gun sales. Neither store was generating enough traffic to justify keeping the lights on.
This idea of “opening the economy” as if things will somehow return to normal ignores the reality of the situation. Nothing creates social distancing like customers that don’t feel like its safe to shop or don’t have the economic means to do so.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 1:28 pm:
===The only model that is accurate is the longer this goes, the depression will hit.===
Trading lives for money is unacceptable.
Sorry.
- Pundent - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 1:38 pm:
=Most important, get back to work The only model that is accurate is the longer this goes, the depression will hit.=
And the only way that we get back to work is if we have four things in place to facilitate it: 1. testing, 2. contact tracing, 3. adequate PPE, and 4. social distancing.
Right now we’re missing or woefully inadequate on 3 out of 4. And until we address these issues this will be our current state. We need a coordinated government response led by the feds. And not one that picks red states over blue but treats all of our citizens equal.
The unfortunate reality is that the answer to this is exactly as it was when the virus first appeared in January.
- Elijah Snow - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 2:07 pm:
I’d be a lot more receptive to “Dave Syverson, who points out mixed messages” if he hadn’t been so casually dismissive of the actual dangers early on.
- Lester Holt’s Mustache - Friday, Apr 10, 20 @ 4:11 pm:
He’s got a point. This isn’t a popular opinion, but I don’t see why the designations can’t be expanded in the next few weeks if businesses are willing to open. I don’t know how anyone can say definitively that the need to buy marijuana or firearms right now is greater than the need to buy flowers or clothes, but someone somewhere decided that this is how it’s going to be. Some of it seems entirely arbitrary. As long as a place of business can provide protection for employees, doesn’t force those employees to work if they don’t feel safe doing so, and can guarantee customers abide by social distancing guidelines at all times, let them open.