55 Comments - Nagidam - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:21 am: When to lift restrictions: Doctors and Scientists How to lift restrictions: Doctors, Scientists, Industry Leaders Making it happen: Doctors, Scientists, Industry Leaders, and Legislators - Kyle Hillman - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:22 am: All I want to hear is this: “listening to the scientists and the doctors”. Anyone else’s opinion is just noise right now. - Bored Chairman - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:23 am: We live in a democracy. Those who were elected to represent the people should make all of the final decisions. They should listen to others about when and how to lift the restrictions, but the decision is ultimately to be made by the people’s representatives. The Governor should listen to legislators as he should to other experts because those legislators represent us and may have a bigger picture than others. - Lt Guv - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:25 am: I think Nagidam nailed it. - Steve Polite - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:27 am: I think he should at least keep them informed. - Hippo - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:27 am: Who among them is the contrarian? All perspectives are needed. - lake county democrat - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:30 am: I think so –there may need to be some laws passed/amended/struck to make whatever process happens. Why have hastily crafted legislation when you can start spotting issues and working on things now? - Perrid - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:31 am: He should keep them in the loop, listen to advice, certainly if they point out problems or have ideas on how to accomplish certain goals, but only if it’s worthwhile. Many heads working together can get things done better, if they’re all pulling in the same direction (or close enough, anyway), but keeping your eyes on the actual goal, not letting yourself get sidetracked or bogged down, is absolutely essential. Also, it’s generally a good idea not to burn bridges or even ruffle feathers when you don’t have too, and you can bet your last dollar every single legislator thinks there input is not only helpful but essential, and that they deserve to be listened to. Which is even true, sometimes. - Anon221 - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:31 am: Bored Chairman- “The Governor should listen to legislators as he should to other experts because those legislators represent us and may have a bigger picture than others.” And some have on either “rose-colored glasses” or lost their “reading glasses” and either downplay the seriousness of this pandemic or even dismiss the danger to their own constituents. As many others have said today on these posts, testing is going to be a major key to returning to near normal. How local leaders choose to support that and help roll it out in the coming weeks and months will be a key issue Pritzker’s administration should address with legislators and garner feedback. - Ducky LaMoore - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:32 am: Absolutely he should consult legislators. How else would he know exactly what not to do? Seriously though, he should be talking with some legislators like house and senate majority/minority leaders. Other than that, probably not. Do we really want JB spending his time consulting with every legislator? No. It would be a huge waste of time when he needs to be extremely focused. - The Real Captain - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:33 am: No. 3 Lawyers and a realtor. Sounds more like a bad joke than a way to save lives. He should keep them up to date on everything but doctors and scientists should be where he is getting his information and advice. - Amalia - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:34 am: by consult any political official, I mean inform. The doctors and scientists determine it. that’s it. - Just Me 2 - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:34 am: Legislative leaders are going to be worried about their legislative and political agendas. They can sit this conversation out. - Fixer - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:41 am: No. He can inform them of what steps he is taking, but unless they have some sort of expertise related to this situation, I don’t think anything would be gained from consulting with them at this point. That will probably change as we get closer to reopening things. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:43 am: Science should dictate, (and it has), decisions. Updating legislators, even the “contrarians” who have suggested “herd immunity” should be updated. Updating legislators is critically important, but the decisions are the governor’s… based on science. - Rutro - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:43 am: They should be consulting them for things they need to do legislatively (i.e expand mail elections) - Bruce (no not him) - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:44 am: Nope. They need to told how it needs to be done by the medical professionals. Politics will only get in the way. - Last Bull Moose - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:47 am: Consult them. Build rapport fighting a common enemy. - Jocko - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 11:50 am: Keep legislators out of it. With the exception of a few, none of them made an oath to ‘do no harm’ - thunderspirit - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:00 pm: Consulting? No. Keeping apprised? Yes. But these are not the same thing. - Sayitaintso - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:03 pm: Agree, inform only. Scientists are more driven by facts. Politicians are driven by re-election considerations. - Junior - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:05 pm: * Science should dictate * Not every decision, otherwise we’ll be living in caves for a year until every single has disappeared. - Junior - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:07 pm: to answer the question, no, they can watch the press conferences like we do. They abdicated responsibility when they blew town before anyone else. - Fighter of Foo - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:08 pm: The Governor should decide with relevant data from the Federal government. The models have been wrong and the science isn’t perfect. The reality is, science and elected governors especially ours, have to balance reality. We can’t stay closed forever, much less, much past April. We won’t have much of a country to come back to. This is a case for listening and being the “decider” as Gov. The more input, the better. But, buck stops with him. - Pundent - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:10 pm: The challenge in consulting anyone is that there input has to be weighed by their level of understanding and expertise. Clearly we have some legislators who are lacking in these areas. If I need an opinion on science I consult a scientist. Same holds true for medical opinions. What I wouldn’t do is consult with someone who’s motivations were not based in expertise or may be trying to further their own agenda by sowing discord. Keep them educated and informed, but also realize that this is an issue that scientists and medical experts must take the lead on. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:13 pm: === Not every decision, otherwise we’ll be living in caves for a year until every single has disappeared.=== England “tried” herd immunity. How did that go? Ask Ireland, they didn’t. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishcentral.com/opinion/others/britain-ireland-covid19.amp Ignoring science by citing “caves” is a caveman thinking herd immunity works - Pundent - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:17 pm: =Not every decision, otherwise we’ll be living in caves for a year until every single has disappeared.= The scientists are telling us precisely what we must be able to do to safely leave our caves. And it sounds pretty reasonable. Yet you choose to ignore that. - Southern Skeptic - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:24 pm: Fixer nailed it. “No. He can inform them of what steps he is taking, but unless they have some sort of expertise related to this situation, I don’t think anything would be gained from consulting with them at this point.” - Top of the State - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:25 pm: Where is the accountability for the scientists and doctors? Legislators and the Gov are accountable to the voters. If the projections (Virus & deaths) fall short…. the politicians will own it. Perhaps a compromise between science/docs and the politicians? - Give Me A Break - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:25 pm: Given the size of the hole blown in the budget by this crises, it will take the leaders and their respective approp, chairs to help the Gov understand the need and demands for state funds. They need to be at the table right now when reopening things is being considered. They don’t need authority to say Yes or No, but they need to be fully aware of possible solutions. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:34 pm: === Perhaps a compromise between science/docs and the politicians?=== If you choose to compromise science for politics… there’s really no use for the science. Science gives the options and realities. The politics to that reaction of the science is where decisions are made. Any compromise by the science to politics… why even recognize science? - Pundent - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:37 pm: = If the projections (Virus & deaths) fall short…. the politicians will own it.=. And the opposite also holds the true which is why no politician should be relying on his gut instinct. - Lester Holt’s Mustache - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:38 pm: == If the projections (Virus & deaths) fall short…. the politicians will own it. == I think they’d be fine with that. I doubt most voters are going to be mad at a politician for erring on the side of caution, listening to the advice of doctors and scientists. If the projections fall short, that’s a good thing - that’ll tell us that we all did our jobs of staying home and social distancing - Jocko - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:41 pm: ==Where is the accountability for the scientists and doctors?== I dunno, maybe the fact that their neighbors and (immediate and extended) family will get sick, possibly die based on their projections? For TOPS (and IPI/Hateful Eight), I say, “you first (exclamation point)” - Oswego Willy - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:43 pm: === == If the projections (Virus & deaths) fall short…. the politicians will own it. == Politicians will be faulted for limiting… deaths? Huh. I’ve yet to remember a politician say “I was right about the pending disaster and not meeting that challenge… “ Voters? “We need to throw out those who used caution and safety to save so many lives” That’s a head scratcher. - Downstate Illinois - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:46 pm: It appears from that list he talking to everyone but elected officials. He also appears to be ignoring any geographic diversity. But everyone knows at this point he’s all about one size fits all and what’s good for Chicago is good for everyone else. - Demoralized - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:53 pm: Thanks for being our victim of the day Downstate. - Demoralized - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:55 pm: ==Where is the accountability for the scientists and doctors?== I don’t even know what that means. ==If the projections (Virus & deaths) fall short…. the politicians will own it.== Umm, who wouldn’t want to own that? You do know the goal of everything that is being done now is to do just that? Limit infections and deaths. Only a weirdo would think that lower infection rates and deaths is a bad thing. - Pundent - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:56 pm: =He also appears to be ignoring any geographic diversity. But everyone knows at this point he’s all about one size fits all and what’s good for Chicago is good for everyone else.= Easy on the mouth breathing. The scientists and medical experts are providing sound advice. Your comment illustrates why experts need to be in charge. - Demoralized - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 12:57 pm: I think the four leaders should at least be in the know. I don’t think it should go beyond that. - Jocko - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 1:02 pm: ==Where is the accountability for the scientists and doctors?== A little better than POTUS promoting hydroxychloroquine as treatment for Covid-19. - Birdseed - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 1:21 pm: === - Jocko - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 1:02 pm: ==Where is the accountability for the scientists and doctors?== A little better than POTUS promoting hydroxychloroquine as treatment for Covid-19. === South Dakota just announced they are going to do a full clinical trial of the drug. - revvedup - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 1:22 pm: The leaders of House and Senate should be briefed in daily, but not consulted at this time. There is no reason our illustrious legislators need to approve or debate everything right now, nor do the laws governing require it. Leaders can brief their members by email, video, etc. We cannot substituted politics and lobbyists for science and facts. - Demoralized - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 1:31 pm: ==South Dakota just announced they are going to do a full clinical trial of the drug.== Good for them. There are multiple studies going on right now for this drug. That’s generally the way the process works. Usually we don’t have people telling us to use a drug because they “feel” like it would be ok. - Just Another Anon - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 1:34 pm: From a practical perspective, is there even an ability to reopen the economy without the big spike in infections which the governor is concerned about? I’m not sure that it is even possible, but if someone can explain how, I’m interested in listening. I think avoiding a spike in cases is the mindset behind flattening the curve, but I’m not sure that is the correct mindset on when the economy should be reopened. Rather, that mindset needs to shift to one asking “Is our medical system as ready as we can make it?” Wasn’t the whole principle of “flattening the curve” buying time for our medical system by spreading out the time in which infections appear? If, as Rich’s earlier post suggests, the medical system will have surge capability and adequate treatment materials by June, wouldn’t that mean that the plan has done its job and its time to remove the restrictions? I guess the other alternative is to maintain this posture until there is a mass produced and available vaccine, which won’t be until next year at the earliest. I’m not sure that there is an easy answer, but in considering the question its important to consider what the actual objectives of the quarantine were. The generic statement “saving lives” is probably objectively true, but the mechanism saving lives is making sure the medical system wasn’t overwhelmed. At some point, the medical system will be as ready as its ever going to be. - RNUG - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 1:37 pm: Like others, I would keep the 4 Tops informed. I would even listen to their feedback on financial and political issues, but not medical. But the decisions are still JB’s to make; after all, Governor’s own. I might even go so far as the include the heads of the financial committees, but no further. - Amalia - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 1:41 pm: @Downstate Illinois, did you watch the presser over the weekend where they had a doc specifically talking about a program for downstate? - Top of the State - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 1:55 pm: Remember Y2K? The politicians and some other “experts” thought that computers would crash, but we went unto the new millennia unharmed. Politics is a science and an art… we need to work together and listen to both to find the best solutions. - zatoichi - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 1:59 pm: Talk with the Tops and selective committee leaders. They then talk to their groups. Keep the group small but make sure to include people with specific knowledge in these areas. The bigger the group less gets done and the more egos have to be dealt with. I’d like to think the Gov has some non-leadership people from both sides where he can have some trusted private talks. Nagidam had a great summary. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 2:02 pm: === Remember Y2K?=== You’re comparing a global pandemic and deaths that are not only happening but are continuing today and in the future… to a computer… possible… glitch? Here I thought all the dorm rooms were empty. Go find your RA for check out procedures. - Pundent - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 2:05 pm: =Wasn’t the whole principle of “flattening the curve” buying time for our medical system by spreading out the time in which infections appear?= Yes in part. But in order for the medical system to be prepared to handle subsequent waves we had to take steps to ensure that the waves were getting smaller. Widespread testing to identify symptomatic people and not just those that were extremely ill. Adequate PPE not only for medical professionals but those returning to other roles. Contact tracing to identify individuals who may have been exposed. None of these elements were in place prior to the stay at home orders and there’s scant evidence to suggest that they will be in place anytime soon. The scientists and medical community are telling Trump, Pritzker and the rest of us that this is what’s necessary. Not everyone is listening. Or they’re unwilling and/or incapable of doing what’s necessary. I’m all in favor of reopening the country. The sooner the better. But you can’t do it without taking the basic steps to avoid a repeat of what we’ve already been through. - Proud Sucker - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 2:07 pm: ===They abdicated responsibility when they blew town before anyone else.=== But, that’s how our system works. The executive is tasked with emergency management. Emergency response is led by an Incident Commander, not a committee. The IC can be a single individual, but is often rotated between a group of three. They can be Fire Chiefs, Police Chiefs, professional emergency managers, Public Works Directors, etc. often determined by the situation - whether response or recovery, etc. They lead a team, but the final call rests with them. They will be judged. Gov. Pritzker’s performance will be judged in 2023. Perhaps sooner, if his actions are thought to warrant impeachment. That’s how the three branch system works. - Top of the State - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 2:23 pm: No, OW. I was only saying that there needs to be some sort of balance between scientists and our policy makers. Y2K was considered a real threat and actions were taken by state workers. And some thought it to be global. Americans can fix things. They did it in WWII with inventing synthetic rubber and we can do it with our present crisis. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 2:28 pm: === Y2K was considered a real threat and actions were taken by state workers.=== Did state workers need PPE, did the state need to find doctors or nurses, build new hospitals, create facilities at convention centers? Did states get into bidding wars for life saving necessities? === They did it in WWII with inventing synthetic rubber=== You must be trolling me now. Seriously, find your RA, check out of the dorm room, head home. Classes are over. - ArchPundit - Monday, Apr 13, 20 @ 3:23 pm: Yes, he should. We are a democracy and he should consult with legislative leaders in making decisions even if he has the power to decide on his own. That doesn’t mean constant check in, but regular briefings and then listening to them–they may even have a good idea. If this continues for very long, the Lege should probably vote on some of the measures as well. I think the current Lege would support the Governor, but the longer this goes, the more it’s important to have legislative support. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.