* Center Square…
Illinois Retail Merchants Association’s Rob Karr said retailers have been working with the governor’s office, but something has to give for businesses on the brink of breaking.
“Because they’re watching an entire life savings, sometimes decades of family work, evaporating,” Karr said. “Many of them are telling me absent some kind of opening, they won’t make it to June 1.”
Karr said as policymakers and industries have worked well on the fly for solutions during the virus outbreak, there is a concern there could be rolling economic shutdowns if public health issues flare-up in the future.
“We as a society, we as businesses, employers, the government, have to learn how to live, how to coexist with COVID-19”
I don’t disagree that we have to figure this out, but you don’t send people back into the fire while it’s still raging and it sure looks like we are still at the peak of this thing.
* Let’s go back to that recent 60 Minutes interview of Gen. John Hyten, the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs…
2019 normal will never exist again. We have to figure out how to operate and fight through a world where coronavirus exists. If we just wait for what, you know, everybody hopes is gonna happen, which is the disease goes away, and it doesn’t, and we haven’t planned for the– for the other case, we’re in a bad situation.
That’s correct, but even the greatest military the world has ever seen doesn’t have this figured out yet. I mean, one of the people 60 Minutes interviewed was Air Force Brig. Gen. Pete Fesler, who was speaking from a bunker “underneath 1,500 feet of granite” in Colorado. Visitors and new workers must be quarantined for two weeks before they can enter.
So, yeah, I’ll stay home, thank you very much.
* And as long as the military doesn’t quite know what to do, I’m sure as heck not listening to people like this…
Ken Cooley, of ShapeMaster Inc. in Champaign County, said workers were already practicing such measures as they make things for hand sanitizer plants starting up in central Illinois and even components for COVID-19 antibody testing. […]
“It’s got to be opened and it’s got to be opened now.”
This virus is clearly a serious national security threat. And you don’t have governors and business groups making national security decisions. For the kabillionth time, the federal government needs to get its act together.
- efudd - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 10:41 am:
“the federal government needs to get its act together”
Not going to happen until voters in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin get their act together.
- Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 10:44 am:
If anyone wants a look at epidemics and pandemics throughout history, check out some of the recent episodes of Tides of History podcast (which are mostly re-releases related to the topic). Society isn’t a light switch you turn off and on and everyone will end up touched by this, especially if we “open up” too early.
- Just Me 2 - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 10:47 am:
If I had to bet on which government would get its act together first, Illinois or Federal, I’d choose Illinois. And that’s saying something (banned punctuation).
- Siualum - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 10:47 am:
“the federal government needs to get its act together”. Yet, according to Rich’s poll yesterday, nearly half the respondents approve of Trump’s handling of the crisis. Just crazy. And we live among them.
- revvedup - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 10:47 am:
The Air Force general was likely at the Cheyenne Mountain Complex, home of NORAD, which is buried inside a mountain. Essential businesses should remain open or reopen) for essential supplies and equipment production/repair/distribution. Reopening salons and golf courses is not going to restore the Illinois or American economies, and will increase risk of a second wave. This situation stinks, but we’ve been through much worse in our State’s and Nation’s history.
- Downstate - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 10:48 am:
Do you get outraged when people suggest that Illinois should declare bankruptcy?
That’s exactly how lots of small business owners feel when the Governor says, “Just stay closed for another month.”
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 10:49 am:
I think government at every level has botched our response to some extent. The feds clearly weren’t prepared and still isn’t providing leadership. States have been better prepared but have still not made the decisions necessary to put this wildfire out. Sure, we’ve had “Stay at Home” orders but they have so many exemptions to them that you can still move about pretty much freely. Some of the countries who have been able to get a handle on the coronavirus, such as New Zealand, went into total lockdown. Only grocery stores and pharmacies open. You can’t travel. Borders shut. That is what we should have done in the United States. Short term pain for results. Instead, we continue to let this virus ravage our country and now we have people who want to simply ignore what is going on and open everything back up like things are just normal as normal can be. Well, things aren’t normal. And they aren’t going to get anywhere close to normal until we take the measures necessary to stop this wildfire. But by all means, continue complaining because you couldn’t go fishing. Americans are arrogant and that is causing us to lose this war and lose it big.
- TheInvisibleMan - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 10:49 am:
===you don’t have governors and business groups making national security decisions===
Well, it seems to be the way of the world these days.
Plainfield has the police chief and chamber of commerce making decisions if planned public events should continue or not.
Amazingly, and not unsurprisingly, they always decide the public events should still take place.
There are people in positions of power at the local levels who honestly think if they display decisiveness and project strength, it will be enough. In those circles, whether or not the decision is based on empirical evidence isn’t important at all.
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 10:50 am:
==Do you get outraged==
I get outraged when people are willing to trade death for money.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 10:54 am:
=== That’s exactly how lots of small business owners feel when the Governor says, “Just stay closed for another month.”===
Money over lives isn’t a winning argument.
NPR has polling too where people are supporting governors and stay at home… 3/1, 4/1 clips.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 10:59 am:
=== For the kabillionth time, the federal government needs to get its act together.===
There needs to be an agency to run the federal management of this emergency.
All 50 states, DC, territories and possessions… all declared disaster area…all.
How this is not coordinated at one location is the biggest failure of any administration.
- efudd - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:00 am:
“Do you get outraged”
Outraged? No. Annoyed by their monumental stupidity? Yep.
- InterestingNumber - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:02 am:
hey alexa, how many zeros are in a kabillion
- Techie - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:04 am:
We definitely need to stem the spread as much as possible. But we need to ask ourselves: what are the criteria that must be met in order to reopen businesses?
It’s not an easy question necessarily. But I think one of the most important components will be identifying at what point in time will hospitals in the state be able to deal with the expected influx of patients as businesses reopen. If hospitals can cope and treat everyone, then it might be time to reopen.
The signs we’re seeing from experts indicate that even after things settle down in the summer, the virus will probably resurge in the fall or winter. We cannot endure a permanent shutdown, things like food production and other essentials probably cannot remain stable in such an environment. And not only will the virus likely resurge later in the year, but it will probably be with us for years to come.
So yes, we need to identify what we need for businesses to reopen. Because the virus will probably not be eradicated any time soon, if ever.
- njt - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:05 am:
Downstate, that is what the PPP and other programs are for. As stated in the post, the Feds could do with spending more time on continuing SBA support as opposed to issuing grants to large co’s with access to capital markets.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:06 am:
=== That’s exactly how lots of small business owners feel when the Governor says, “Just stay closed for another month.”===
Can you see yourself going to a convention? A concert? A club? With everyone next to each other? Even if businesses can open, the customers aren’t going to come. Might as well stay home and fill out the onerous PPP forms.
- Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:09 am:
“Money over lives isn’t a winning argument.“
Very true, as polling indicates. The vast majority seem to support handling this crisis carefully.
I credit certain big corporations as well, with their TV ads showing support and compassion for efforts to save lives. They get it.
We can look at regional/gradual reopening, but with as much safety as possible, intelligently and not led by the anti-government paranoids.
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:11 am:
==what are the criteria that must be met in order to reopen businesses==
That criteria has already been laid out. The feds published a 3 step process with markers to be met prior to moving to each step.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:13 am:
=== So yes, we need to identify what we need for businesses to reopen.===
While the White House has one, POTUS double crosses it daily.
I’m still waiting for 14 days of downward numbers.
Has there been 3 days in a row?
- Moe Berg - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:13 am:
COVID-19 is not solvable on an ad hoc, state-by-state basis. Highly transmissible viruses don’t respect lines on a map.
We are 3 full months into this and there is still no coordinated federal response.
Talking to Howard Stern years ago the draft-dodging Trump likened his effort to avoid STDs as like his Vietnam.
The still rising coronavirus death toll actually is Trump’s Vietnam: a quagmire largely of his own making that he’s going to try and bluff his way out.
- Merica - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:14 am:
Just so everyone knows, we are in the middle of this. So, do you want to open in the middle and prolong it and intensify it?
Also, the “open the economy” people are basing everything on the false assumption that “things go back to normal” they won’t.
Your business will be crippled right now even if the government terminate the lockdown restrictions.
Look at Georgia, they let the lockdown expire. Only 87 out of more than 4,000 restaurants in the Atlanta metro area reopened. Restaurants in GA can only use 25% of their tables, and they have to meet more than 40 health requirements including full PPE for all staff.
In South Carolina, before the State enacted restrictions, more than 3/4 of the businesses in the Charlotte area had already closed their doors.
Politicizing this crisis won’t fix it. The only way to fix this is to find an effective treatment, containment, or a vaccine.
- CapnCrunch - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:15 am:
“….Air Force Brig. Gen. Pete Fesler, who was speaking from a bunker “underneath 1,500 feet of granite” in Colorado.”…..”
Was he hiding from the virus in the bunker or did his job require his presence there ?
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:16 am:
===Can you see yourself going to a convention? A concert? A club?===
A public restroom?
- Annonin - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:17 am:
Always wonder what Karr means when or what he wants open. car dealers? No one buying. Home builders? check
Aside from bars and restaurants (including video poker) and churches what are we really missing? Folks had given up on most retail already. Some have talked shoes at Walmart of local store, Who even has a local shoe store any more.
- Downstate - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:17 am:
—That is what the PPP and other programs are for—
A small manufacturing firm might be able to keep their employees on the payroll for 8 weeks, but the corresponding fall off in business, for the next two quarters won’t begin to be covered by PPP.
Hairdressers are still shut. I think they and their customers are capable of wearing PPE sufficient to allow them to operate. At a minimum, both they and their customers can make a responsible decision and assess the risks. And they can each make that independently.
If the Governor is really serious about the “science” of this than he’ll show some leadership (unlike his dental fiasco). Either campgrounds should be shut or not. Illinois campgrounds are closed, but private ones are not.
Smoking is now determined to facilitate the impact of the virus. But we are still selling cigarettes in Illinois.
- Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:22 am:
We can’t have it both ways, freedom to open and freedom to lock down. That’s not how pandemic management works. That’s literally opening the door to more problems. We need to be in consensus on different levels to have better success.
For those who don’t like government and government help, isn’t there some primitive place in the world where they can go and live, free of modern civilization?
- Pundent - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:22 am:
=But we need to ask ourselves: what are the criteria that must be met in order to reopen businesses?=
Have you heard about the “three Ts” or federal guidelines that lay this all out? The criteria is all there. The larger question is why isn’t this happening?
- Chatham Resident - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:25 am:
Another question about small businesses and COVID-19: Is it just me or before this outbreak, did anyone else think we had way too many small businesses–especially niche places and restaurants–to begin with?
Especially in cities like Springfield, and way too many niche businesses (as opposed to basic goods). Craft beer, “Wonderful Waffles” (the signage for this place on MacArthur has lasted 3 times as long as the time they were actually in business), etc. Too many businesses and restaurants (including fast food) IMO than 10 years ago anyway.
- James the Intolerant - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:30 am:
We can see the leadership of the federal government. Get workers back to work in unsafe conditions and waive company liability. Good deal.
For states to re-open, per the President’s own criteria, new cases are supposed to be on a 14 day downward projection, which hasn’t been met for the Reopen America Again states.
- Downstate - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:31 am:
For those advocating national guidelines to dealing with this, what should the federal response be to those Governor’s that deem themselves a “sanctuary state”?
- Cubs in '16 - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:31 am:
===At a minimum, both they and their customers can make a responsible decision and assess the risks.===
You’re talking about individual risk as opposed to global. That’s where the science comes in and justifies the need for these businesses to remain closed.
- @misterjayem - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:33 am:
“Smoking is now determined to facilitate the impact of the virus. But we are still selling cigarettes in Illinois.”
Every time I think the reasoning has hit rock bottom, someone finds another chasm in which to plunge it.
– MrJM
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:34 am:
==what should the federal response be to those Governor’s that deem themselves a “sanctuary state”?==
You are going to start arguing like an adult someday aren’t you? Because you’re not doing a very good job of it right now.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:34 am:
===At a minimum, both they and their customers can make a responsible decision and assess the risks.===
No.
If it’s safe to be open, then the liability is on the business, and should be held accountable.
I mean, they’re telling me it’s safe…
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:36 am:
=== to those Governor’s that deem themselves a “sanctuary state”?===
Because… immigrants?
Is that you Stephen Miller?
- Downstate - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:41 am:
OW,
Seriously, what should the response be to a “sanctuary state”? Name calling doesn’t count for discourse.
We each assess our personal risks on a daily basis, pre-covid. For many in non-rural areas, there are parts of the city you probably don’t walk through. There may be establishments you don’t ever enter, all due to your personal decisions on risk.
- tea_and_honey - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:43 am:
I live in a small town downstate so I may be missing the bigger picture, but what businesses are still 100% prohibited from operating? I know we had that conversation around the table over dinner last night and could only come up with bars, churches, and hair/nail type businesses. Everything else in our little town is operating in some capacity (curbside, home delivery, etc.).
- njt - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:45 am:
Downstate, I’m unclear on why a hairdresser cannot apply for the PPP. They can call their bank and apply. They can also work with their landlord for ongoing opex and capex.
Again, as stated, this needs to be leadership taken on the Fed level to expand and continue PPP and other programs.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:50 am:
=== Seriously, what should the response be to a “sanctuary state”? ===
Do you want businesses to open or do you want to discuss the inherit racism to make yourself feel better about “the wall”?
If you are Stephen Miller, we’re in the middle of a global pandemic, go take the silly “wall” argument to those carrying Confederate flags.
- Jibba - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:51 am:
===If the Governor is really serious about the “science” of this than he’ll show some leadership===
JB has shown 100 times the leadership of the White House. Taking the heat for doing the right thing is leadership, since you clearly don’t recognize it.
You deflecting into sanctuary state malarkey shows this is all politics to you. Fed you.
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 11:55 am:
Downstate:
You want to give the ability to people to make their own decisions on what they will or will not do in the middle of a pandemic. How exactly does that contribute to stopping it? Do you just not fully understand the magnitude of a pandemic or are you just being willfully ignorant and not care?
- RuralKing - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 12:02 pm:
njt-
The PPP was designed as a short-term stop gap measure to keep people on the payroll (75% of those funds had to be used for payroll)…it was not designed as a multi-month handout for businesses. The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money…and that happened decades ago
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 12:05 pm:
=== The problem with socialism===
Those companies getting PPP… they socialists now?
Should they return the monies?
See how silly you sound?
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 12:09 pm:
==The problem with socialism==
Lol. You’re really going there at a time like this. Ok then. You certainly have your priorties straight.
- RuralKing - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 12:10 pm:
OW -
You miss read my comment or I wasn’t clear. The companies taking the PPP funds were FORCED to shut down by the government…they absolutely deserve that money. My point is that it was a SHORT-TERM solution.
I’ll try to type slower so you can keep up
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 12:14 pm:
==My point is that it was a SHORT-TERM solution==
I don’t think the virus understood that. It apologizes.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 12:14 pm:
=== You miss read my comment or I wasn’t clear.===
I misread nothing.
Your thought is… being forced by the government to do anything and then getting money is Socialism too. No private freedom to commerce.
If you like, you can ask those getting PPP, for any reason, to give back that money.
Let the free market decide who can withstand this pandemic and stay in place. Isn’t capitalism the survival of the fittest?
Again, see how silly your socialism thingy is?
- @misterjayem - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 12:18 pm:
“You miss read my comment *** I’ll try to type slower so you can keep up”
If you want to be understood, proofread your posts.
– MrJM
- Red Ketcher - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 12:23 pm:
Perfect Headline
- Downstate - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 12:29 pm:
“go take the silly “wall” argument to those carrying Confederate flags.”
Ow,
Again, name calling is not discourse. It seems you resort to that fairly regularly.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 12:29 pm:
===For those advocating national guidelines to dealing with this, what should the federal response be to those Governor’s that deem themselves a “sanctuary state”?
The federal response should be to do the job of the federal government which is to enforce immigration law. States and their sub-units aren’t responsible for immigration enforcement and in the State of Illinois that means the state will not detain people solely for a violation of federal immigration law. Language about ’sanctuary’ confuses these issues and has no real meaning in the law.
This is a very different scenario than healthcare crises where the federal government has dual authority with states on many areas of the law and sole or primary authority in others. For example, both states and the federal government have authority over hospitals and commerce related issues. However, when it comes to regulating testing and drug related treatments, the federal government has primary authority. Federal government also has coordinating responsibilities for disasters.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 12:33 pm:
- Downstate -
Didn’t I ask you to take your argument to the confederate flag wavers, move on from me.
I have no time for Stephen Miller types during a global pandemic.
- Titan - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 12:49 pm:
I don’t mean to downplay the seriousness of this pandemic (both of my kids’ families were doing a good job of isolating and hand washing and all, and they both got it). It is serious, but it could have been way worse.
We need to figure out how to deal with pandemics in our modern day global society. One of the next ones (and there will be more) will be worse in terms of transmission and mortality.
My fear is we’ll look back at this as a (relatively speaking) mild warning shot or wake up call, and we won’t heed the warning before we get hit with something like the one in Stephen King’s The Stand.
- sal-says - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 12:56 pm:
There is no functioning Federal govt at this time.
- Ghost - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 1:01 pm:
Compromise:
Any business can open up, but if any employees become sick they agree to be liable in workers comp. If a customer becomes sick and dies they agree to pay death benefits to the family.
We need to get our economy going. One way is to move more business online. Perhaps some state funded centers to help companies move online.
The people demanding we open seem to fall into two catagories. The nut ball narcacists and those scared for their future who want to do something to fix their situation, but are unsure what to do other then what they have always done.
Whatever the future holds having the universities help shape new operations and practice’s for small business may be one way to help. Even if its just helping to design in person procedures to reduce risk.
- Lester Holt’s Mustache - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 1:19 pm:
== I live in a small town downstate so I may be missing the bigger picture, but what businesses are still 100% prohibited from operating? ==
Hello tea-and-honey, welcome to cap fax. I also live in a small town downstate, and I think your list pretty much sums it up. Though in our area, hair and nail stylists are still operating if they feel comfortable doing so - they’re just traveling to customer’s houses or having people come to their home for hair and nail appointments. People can’t go to a bar or to a church, but local bars still sell food (and probably package liquor) curbside and our church is streaming live sermons on Sundays. It’s making many businesses more difficult to operate, but not impossible to operate. And to be honest, even if they tried operating like they did before all this started, I don’t know who would actually show up.
- Mama - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 1:31 pm:
“How this is not coordinated at one location is the biggest failure of any administration. ”
OW, Trump appointed Jared, his son-in-law who has no medical training, to be in charge of COVID-19. The the problem is they are using this global pandemic to play politics.
- Mama - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 1:36 pm:
sal-says, “There is no functioning Federal govt at this time.”
The truth is, there has been ‘no’ functioning Federal government since Trump took office. The main reason he ran for president was to dismantle the entire federal government.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 1:39 pm:
- Mama -
Maybe Don Corleone has it right all along, about Carlo and about Jared too;
Give the son in law a living, but never discuss the family business with him… in this case, governing.
- Lester Holt’s Mustache - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 2:09 pm:
== OW, Trump appointed Jared, his son-in-law who has no medical training, to be in charge of COVID-19. ==
Mama, that’s not entirely fair - you should provide the whole story. You left out the part where they originally appointed a former labradoodle breeder to be in charge. It wasn’t until later that they appointed the son in law. You can’t just go around omitting key facts like that. /s
- Joe Bidenopolous - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 2:17 pm:
The people wanting everything open are bonkers. There were about 4,000 deaths in the US on April 1. By the end of the day tomorrow, there will likely be around 62,000 or more and we’re on a plateau hovering around 2k deaths per day.
But you know what’s more bonkers than that? Their belief that if we just open up, the people will come and their livelihood will be saved. People don’t want to die. As Rich said, we’ll vote with our feet, thanks.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 2:29 pm:
===Their belief that if we just open up, the people will come and their livelihood will be saved. People don’t want to die.
I’m agreeing with you, but it would be even worse for the economy if we did open up, people went out, and the pandemic exploded.
- Teacher Lady - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 3:01 pm:
==“….Air Force Brig. Gen. Pete Fesler, who was speaking from a bunker “underneath 1,500 feet of granite” in Colorado.”…..”
Was he hiding from the virus in the bunker or did his job require his presence there ?==
He’s in charge of NORAD, so his job requires his presence there.
From the post: == “Visitors and new workers must be quarantined for two weeks before they can enter.”
That’s the part that’s attributable to Covid-19.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 4:59 pm:
“how many zeros are in a kabillion”
Isn’t a kabillion a factor of 10 below googolplex factorial? Say 1 x 10^99
- Huh? - Wednesday, Apr 29, 20 @ 5:04 pm:
“how many zeros are in a kabillion”
Isn’t a kabillion a factor of 10 below googolplex factorial? Say 1 x 10^99