* From the Clifford Law Offices, one of the most successful trial lawyer firms in the country…
Several bar leaders from across the state are speaking out supporting the rule of law and on behalf of innocent victims of violators of Illinois’ stay-at-home Executive Order effective through May 30.
Governor J.B. Pritzker’s Executive Order requires Illinois residents to continue to shelter in place through May 30, but it has come under fire from some downstate legislators. Bar leaders from the Illinois State Bar Association (ISBA), Chicago Bar Association (CBA) and Illinois Trial Lawyers Association (ITLA) are speaking out in support of the Governor’s Executive Order in an effort to protect Illinoisans across the state and to reinforce the rule of law.
As of Wednesday, May 13, 2020, the number of deaths in Illinois attributed to COVID-19 totaled more than 3,700 and the number of total infections in the state exceeded 84,000.
Presidents of three leading bar associations stated that they recognize the Governor’s authority to protect its citizens, particularly in a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic situation, and that the Executive Order to shelter in place must be practiced by the Illinois citizenry for the health, safety and welfare of all.
ISBA President David Sosin said, “The constitutionality of the Governor’s actions is now before the courts and we await the decision of the judicial branch, but in the meantime, we must respect the rule of law in this state. A violation of the Governor’s Executive Order may result in consequences that result in legal action, but at the same time, we appreciate the efforts being made to recognize that different areas of the state may be treated differently depending upon their experience with coronavirus and their current success with social distancing efforts.”
CBA First Vice President Maryam Ahmad, who ascends to the presidency next month, echoed Sosin’s sentiments and added, “The Chicago Bar Association supports our Governor’s efforts to assure and defend the safety of the residents of Illinois; this goal is consistent with the CBA’s mission to promote the general welfare of our members and to preserve and protect the legal profession. Governor Pritzker’s Executive Orders properly cite and rely upon broad statutory authority, particularly now, during a crisis. They are presumptively valid and have the effect of law. Parties seeking to challenge these orders should do so before a court; unless declared unconstitutional, these orders are to be followed.”
ITLA President Antonio Romanucci said, “The risk of opening early outweighs the benefit of limiting liability not only for a municipality but also for any employer who follows the guidelines of the municipality.” Romanucci said in a May 8 written statement that the “prudent course” would be to stay closed and limit any further potential spread that could lead to litigation. “Certainly, no one wants to do a second round of sheltering,” he went on to say.
Mark Prince, immediate past President of ITLA of downstate Marion, said, “I am supportive of the Governor’s Executive Order because Illinois needs to re-open only once and do it the right way. This deadly virus affects everyone across the state and even one death is one too many.”
Romanucci pointed out that the insurance industry itself pointed out that consequences for violating the Executive Order may include liability for those who become sick as a result of violating the order and denial of insurance claims should a court find the business or local government to be acting outside the parameters of what is covered in their policies.
ISBA President David Sosin, CBA First Vice President Maryam Ahmad, ITLA President Antonio Romanucci and ITLA Immediate Past President Mark Prince will hold a virtual press conference at 11 a.m., Thursday, May 14, 2020, on Zoom.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 9:46 am:
The biggest mistake now would be letting the Covidiots off the hook for the lives they are endangering by deciding to be open outside the governor’s order.
You can’t tell me it’s safe to go to your business and tell me you need legal immunity.
There’s a reason that you sign a waiver to jump out of an airplane;
Yeah, there’s a risk… but make no mistake… those aiding that risk want immunity.
- efudd - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 9:49 am:
Yeah, well, some goober with a homemade sign told me we need “herd immunity” so we should re-open now.
He was also waving the American flag, so, he must be right.
- The Captain - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 9:52 am:
I haven’t been in a bar in almost 9 weeks, this headline was misleading to my interests.
- Tynie - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 9:53 am:
The Captain, thanks for that laugh.
- Grandson of Man - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 9:53 am:
“we must respect the rule of law in this state“
Many law and order, back the blue screamers at POC who protest police brutality “respect the law” when they weaponize it against people they don’t like.
It’s a great thing that Rauner was unable to whack trial lawyers and worker’s compensation. They are very important in this environment of danger and defiance of the EO that is legally binding so far.
- Commonsense in Illinois - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 9:56 am:
That was a long way to what could have been this much shorter version…
Go ahead, reopen…cha ching!
- Southern - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:03 am:
I just don’t know who to believe on this issue. The heads of the major attorney associations in Illinois? Or my classmate who barely graduated from high school but says he did some searching on the internet and determined that the governor’s orders are unconstitutional?
- DuPage Saint - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:03 am:
I do not see how a person could ever prove where he got coronavirus.
- Lucky Pierre - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:05 am:
Maybe the trial lawyers like Robert Clifford can make the case that it It has always been safe to go about your business at Walmart, Target, Amazon and other large businesses and grocery stores but somehow it is still unsafe to go to small businesses and churches who should be sued out of existence if they violate the Governors order.
Apparently it is also still safe to get food to go and get newspapers, mail and packages delivered somehow.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:07 am:
=== I do not see how a person could ever prove where he got coronavirus.===
The second “T” in the three T’s is Tracing.
Like with meat packing plants, nursing homes… where a person has been, tracing steps backwards…
- don the legend - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:09 am:
==I do not see how a person could ever prove where he got coronavirus.==
Well then, by all means, open everything up.
- TinyDancer(FKASue) - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:15 am:
I’ve been waiting for this shoe to drop. My only question is……
What took so long?
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:16 am:
- Lucky Pierre -
Are you for legal immunity?
Why or why not?
Thanks.
- Southern - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:16 am:
==I do not see how a person could ever prove where he got coronavirus.==
Ask asbestos makers how that argument has worked for them. “I do not see how a person could ever prove where he got mesothelioma.”
- Lucky Pierre - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:16 am:
Illinois Trial lawyers and workers comp environment are great ?
“Illinois is ranked #50 in the 2019 Lawsuit Climate Survey: Ranking the States, falling from #48 in 2017. Its ranking dropped in almost every key element category, with the greatest drops reflected in Trial Judges’ Competence and Quality of Appellate Review. Illinois moved up by two positions in the Damages category. Both Chicago or Cook County and Madison County made the list of the Cities or Counties with the Least Fair and Reasonable Litigation Environment.”
https://www.instituteforlegalreform.com/states/illinois
Amazing how wrong the doomsayers were about Florida morons and Georgia.
“Some of the states that skeptics were most worried about, including Florida and Georgia, haven’t seen the rise in total cases that some experts feared.”
Florida’s new cases actually declined by 14% compared to the previous week, and Georgia’s fell by 12%.
https://www.axios.com/newsletters/axios-am-4c632320-2c43-4d4b-8d48-d0a89b71681f.html
- efudd - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:17 am:
Dupage Saint-
Doesn’t necessarily have to be a claim regarding covid.
A person injures themselves in your business while you’re supposed to be closed.
You think you’re covered?
- the Edge - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:19 am:
There is strong common sense arguments for modifying the EO. An example of golf. The two person 15 minute tee time separation seems to have been put together by someone who knew nothing about golf. Once someone drives, and hits their fairway shot they would be 300 yards away from the next group. Four people can easily social distance themselves on a golf course.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:23 am:
=== An example of golf.===
The only example this is… is a #FirstWorldProblem
With 20% unemployment, businesses going bankrupt, if your worry consists of the number of golfers…
- Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:26 am:
I am 100% for legal immunity.
- LOL - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:26 am:
LOL, he said “downstate” Marion. I know better than that….Marion is 10 miles due east. Cairo is downstate, so is Anna and Vienna. Marion is cross-state, by 10 miles.
- Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:27 am:
….and so will JB if McConnel dangles that state bailout to him.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:28 am:
Anyplace asking for legal immunity…
…
…might as well treat their business like jumping out of an airplane.
Yeah, I’m not going to a place that thinks they are a jump school.
Nope.
- efudd - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:29 am:
the Edge-
I guess it’s where you play. I’m I hacker from way back, but a quick-play hacker. I rarely pass a foursome that isn’t close together most of play.
- efudd - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:31 am:
“if McConell dangles that”
Never to early for ridiculous “what ifs”, is it?
- Grandson of Man - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:34 am:
“Florida’s new cases actually declined by 14% compared to the previous week, and Georgia’s fell by 12%.“
Florida and Georgia raw numbers of new cases have been going up and down every other day. Texas has seen case numbers over 1,000 new cases per day for six days in a row. New York and Michigan appear to show a long and sustained overall decrease in new cases.
- Froganon - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:34 am:
-I do not see how a person could ever prove where he got coronavirus.-
Things aren’t real or true unless I see and approve (of) how they happen. Got it.
- TheInvisibleMan - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:36 am:
The Grundy County Sheriff announced this week he will not be enforcing the order against any businesses or graduation parties.
His reasoning was that he thinks the order is unconstitutional. As those who post here already know, no court in the state has made that finding as a matter of law.
What should scare everyone is that law enforcement leadership has decided it also has the powers of the judicial branch.
- Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:38 am:
OW. I must admit I admire you now more than ever. You are the only person I know who has yet to venture out during this pandemic. Tips cap to you.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:41 am:
- Blue Dog Dem -
I’ve been out. Often.
I find your arrogance and disregard towards the doctors and nurses that saved *your* life during your battle with cancer a slap in the face to those who worked hard with you so you can be here.
- efudd - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:42 am:
“Florida’s new cases declined”
Yeah, Florida is big on counting. Some elections in the last couple of decades proves that.
If you believe anything that comes from Ron DeSantis’s mouth I’ve got a casino in Cobden I’d like to sell you.
- Joe Bidenopolous - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:42 am:
===What should scare everyone is that law enforcement leadership has decided it also has the powers of the judicial branch.===
Not to mention the executive and legislative branches. Certain LEOs actions/non-actions are quite scary in that context
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:43 am:
- Lucky Pierre -
Not one state… Georgia and Florida… has had 14 days of downward scale… New York is bending the entire county’s curve with their downward turn.
So there’s that.
- Pundent - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:45 am:
=I am 100% for legal immunity.=
Of course you do. “Eat here at your own risk” is certainly going to revive the restaurant industry.
As a cancer survivor and pro-lifer you certainly show a macabre appreciation for your own and other peoples lives.
- Chicago Cynic - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:45 am:
I think the trial lawyers are performing a great service here. If you ignore the risks and people get sick, we’ll sue the living crap out of you.
- RNUG - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:48 am:
So many unanswered questions.
The various bar associations are coming at this as if it were legislation passed by the General Assembly and signed by the Governor; those laws are considered valid and constitutional … until they are proven not in court. So I get where the bar is going from.
But do the Executive Orders issued by the Governor have the same presumption of law and constitutionality? I think we can say they have some presumption of legality because the GA did delegate power to the Governor in an emergency. And, so far, the GA has not exercised their power to override his EO’s, which implies the GA’s concurrence.
That just gives an assumption of validity. It doesn’t resolve any constitutional issue. And it doesn’t resolve the question the Governor’s stated 30 days of power; the GA’s silence in the statute and during this crisis doesn’t clarify things.
So we are left with a presumption of legality … but with a unclear basis for said presumption.
I realize it is on the agenda for the upcoming GA session; the GA’s intention really does need to be made clear.
- walker - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:49 am:
Hard to tell the difference between tavern and bar, sometimes.
- The Swan - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:52 am:
We really don’t want greedy, self interested trial lawyers making policy during a pandemic.
As to immunity from suit, it’s neccessary to provide immunity to private companies during a pandemic for the same reason units of local government have it all the time. That is to ensure energy and resources are used in the most productive manner possible and for the greater public good, not on the needs of an individual and their greedy personal injury lawyer.
- Demoralized - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:55 am:
==it’s neccessary to provide immunity to private companies during a pandemic ==
Not if they are wilfully breaking the law. Why would you reward bad behavior?
- Pundent - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:57 am:
=But do the Executive Orders issued by the Governor have the same presumption of law and constitutionality? I think we can say they have some presumption of legality because the GA did delegate power to the Governor in an emergency. And, so far, the GA has not exercised their power to override his EO’s, which implies the GA’s concurrence.=
Let’s think how this plays out from a civil standpoint. At issue isn’t whether or not a business could been legally open but rather whether or not it was safe to do so. All 50 states have been declared disaster areas and almost all governors have issued stay at home orders. The federal government has advised against going out and has continually warned against it. And the defendants argument will be I was within my constitutional right to open up because the governor did not have the authority shut me down? The court could certainly agree with that right and also tell the defendant that they now have to accept the consequences that go along with exercising that right.
- Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 10:59 am:
OW. My son is an epidemiologist at a large hospital in St. LOUIS. He is deeply involved with clinical trials of Remdesiver. He is knee deep in covid 19 patients every single day. His input on this ordeal is considerably different than the political mayhem this has turned into.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 11:03 am:
- Blue Dog Dem -
I don’t care.
Your callous and foolishness is trying.
Your trolling is tiring.
To take you seriously now… is to realize how you “are” versus your own medical challenges and then turning on those same doctors and nurses.
Thanks.
To the post,
The governor adding to decisions with a deeper look, himself, publicly at the choices is a good way to recalibrate the real goal of keeping Illinois safe
- Grandson of Man - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 11:07 am:
“We really don’t want greedy, self interested trial lawyers making policy during a pandemic.“
Elections have consequences and we don’t want to be turned into a lower-income red state where workers are treated as expendable widgets.
Pritzker is not a lawyer but rather a job creator who founded an internationally-acclaimed tech startup company that creates lots of jobs.
- Logical Thinker - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 11:13 am:
Now that attorneys are involved, when will this ever end? We might as well fold. What happens if there is even a single case ever of Covid-19 at any establishment? Will those people get sued? When is the (arbitrary) end to the liability?
The more I read here, the more I’m convinced we’re toast as a state. These conversations are not happening elsewhere and if they are, it’s not to this extent.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 11:16 am:
=== What happens if there is even a single case ever of Covid-19 at any establishment? Will those people get sued? When is the (arbitrary) end to the liability?===
Don’t open up in defiance of the governor’s order.
Straight-forward.
- Grandson of Man - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 11:19 am:
“Will those people get sued? When is the (arbitrary) end to the liability?“
C’mon man, don’t argue like a child. We’re newly into a global pandemic and have an EO in place. As we go along, we will or may have new laws and guidelines in place and will proceed legally from those points. Right now, if a business violates the EO and people get suffer or die because of it, it’s grounds for a lawsuit.
- njt - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 11:19 am:
LP, your statements on Florida and Georgia are incorrect, please use better sources:
https://www.ajc.com/news/state–regional-govt–politics/just-cuckoo-state-latest-data-mishap-causes-critics-cry-foul/182PpUvUX9XEF8vO11NVGO/
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242728446.html
- Leigh John-Ella - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 11:20 am:
-I do not see how a person could ever prove where he got coronavirus.-
See you at jury selection.
- TheInvisibleMan - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 11:20 am:
—These conversations are not happening elsewhere—
Yes they are.
Not everywhere has a Darren Bailey that started the ball rolling so soon though.
Lawyers across the country are champing at the bit on the windfall in front of them, and insurance companies are already working to deny claims. None of that is isolated to Illinois.
Russia has insurance scams with cars. The US flavor will be lawsuits and scams against restaurants.
It’s coming.
- Ron Burgundy - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 11:26 am:
For those that may not be aware, of the 3 bar associations listed, only 1 is an organization made up of Plaintiff’s trial attorneys. The CBA and ISBA are general membership.
- Pundent - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 11:26 am:
=What happens if there is even a single case ever of Covid-19 at any establishment?=
If your argument is that it’s perfectly safe to open up, you can use a common sense to protect your patrons, and the government has no right to tell you what to do then you should be perfectly comfortable in accepting any consequences that may come from your decisions. After all you’ve got it all under control. Right?
- Logical Thinker - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 11:27 am:
So basically we only get out when Pritzker says so. Well how about this: under the same standard, the governor should be sued if there is a Covid case after he opens the state for businesses. Why should he assume no liability while the businesses are? How different would the discussion be if HE actually had some legal liability as well?
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 11:32 am:
===… under the same standard, the governor should be sued if there is a Covid case after he opens the state for businesses.==
Are you *for* opening Illinois?
Why sue the Governor for giving you what you want?
See how your dorm room logic makes your arguments foolish?
Are you trolling yourself with the name - Logical Thinker -?
If a business wants to open now… go to some sky diving websites, get those online waivers… give them to customers entering.
- cermak_rd - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 11:35 am:
My company is an essential service. It has gone to great expense to protect its team members. The entire place was shut down for a week while they figured out how to expand out the lines to allow social distancing. Everyone wears a mask at all times when in the building. Temperature and wellness check before entry to campus. Full face shields where social distancing is not possible.
Honestly, if a competitor is not doing these things then they deserve to be sued. Legal immunity puts bad actors at a competitive advantage which my own sense of fairness senses as repugnant.
- Mana - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 11:50 am:
Restaurants are allowed to be open for carry-out orders so what’s the problem?
- mana - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 11:57 am:
I understand why why the retail stores that are closed are P…ed because Walmart and Lowe’s are open. All retail stores should be allowed to open with restriction to the number of people allowed in the store. Restaurants could restrict the number of people. Buffets should not be allowed to open until there is a vaccine. Anyone defying orders should be fined if they don’t comply with the governor’s EO or law…
- Pundent - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 12:11 pm:
=My son is an epidemiologist at a large hospital in St. LOUIS.=
Your callous disregard for life isn’t justified by who you know or may be related to, it’s just further evidence of how nonsensical it is.
- northsider (the original) - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 12:16 pm:
Before they throw the doors open in defiance of the EO, premises owners should ask their insurance carrier if their policy covers them for intentional torts. (Hint- it doesn’t)
- Mama - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 12:18 pm:
Can Bars limit the number of people in their bars to 10 people inside the bar at any one time and still make money?
- Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 12:21 pm:
pundent. Your opinion of me is not relevant. Your callous disregard for the livelihood of tens of millions tells me lots about you.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 12:25 pm:
=== Your callous disregard for the livelihood of tens of millions===
Tell that to the doctors and nurses that saved your life.
You often updated us… “Ol Blue going for treatment… “
We celebrated your completion.
Your money thoughts… over life… whew.
- Pundent - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 12:32 pm:
=Your callous disregard for the livelihood of tens of millions tells me lots about you.=
I would like to see the federal government deliver on the promise made several months ago. You know, anybody that needs a test can get one? The tests that everyone from CEOs to small business owners and front lines workers say we need in order to safely return.
It pains me to see what this virus is doing to our economy. It bothers me just as much that we aren’t holding our leaders accountable for providing the solutions that will get us out of this mess. When will we see the return of the Trump economy that made all of the incompetence, racism, and hate excusable?
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 12:37 pm:
=== Romanucci pointed out that the insurance industry itself pointed out that consequences for violating the Executive Order may include liability for those who become sick as a result of violating the order and denial of insurance claims should a court find the business or local government to be acting outside the parameters of what is covered in their policies.===
“… or local government… “
That might clarify… that if the locals go alone… those local officials might need to remember… is your local elected position that important to the peril they could be putting the local government in… by going alone?
- City Zen - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 1:07 pm:
Blue Dog Dem - Your callous disregard for my callous opinion of you wreaks of callousness not seen since your aforementioned callous disregard.
- Flapdoodle - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 1:12 pm:
Some people here are adamant about opening up the state. They take the easy route by throwing around phrases like “tens of millions” or whatever. That keeps things nice and abstract. But to find out what a person truly values, what their character really is, you need to make it personal. Like asking them to answer a single straight up, yes or no question.
Will you look another person in they eye and tell them that your wallet is more important than their life?
That’s what it comes down to, stripped of all the rhetoric and dramatizing. Do you value your wallet more than that person’s life?
You know who you are. How about it?
- Trying to Be Rational - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 1:15 pm:
Cuomo in NY just put in legal immunity for nursing homes from Covid-19 claims. Of course, that was after he forced nursing homes to take Covid-positive patients out of hospitals resulting in the deaths of thousands of nursing home patients.
- Trying to Be Rational - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 1:22 pm:
Dr. Mike Ryan, head of WHO’s Emergencies Program has said Covid-19 “may never go away.” That fits with the history of coronaviruses, we’ve already spent decades of work by top scientists and billions of dollars and we’ve never developed an effective vaccine.
The fastest major vaccine development was for Ebola, and that took 5 years.
Being shutdown forever is a loooong time.
Hey, don’t jump on me, call the WHO.
- Rich Miller - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 1:24 pm:
===Cuomo in NY just put in legal immunity for nursing homes===
Pritzker did that last month.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 1:25 pm:
=== Being shutdown forever===
Not ONE person of position has said “forever”
Not. One.
Thanks.
- Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 1:27 pm:
just disregard my irrelevance.
- Demoralized - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 2:24 pm:
==just disregard my irrelevance.==
Ok. We will.
You value money over life. You’ve made your position crystal clear. We all know exactly what you think. And, yes, it is callous.
- Chatham Resident - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 4:07 pm:
Springfield Mayor Jim Langfelder is even having doubts about how much longer restaurants can keep their inside seating closed. He wants restaurants to be open by next month, especially the downtown ones. From today’s Illinois Times:
https://www.illinoistimes.com/springfield/reopening-woes/Content?oid=12152017
- MyTwoCents - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 4:53 pm:
Businesses should be given immunity, IF they have taken every precaution. If a business has hand sanitizer available, requires everybody in the building to wear a mask/covering (and trespasses anybody who refuses, as is their legal right), practices social distancing, etc. then they have done everything they can to limit the transmission of coronavirus. Anything less and yes, they should be open for liability because they have not taken the steps required to be good citizens of Illinois.
- RNUG - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 7:04 pm:
== Not ONE person of position has said “forever” ==
If the goal post is either a vaccine or elimination of new cases, we still haven’t managed that for some diseases … so whoever sets those as goals for reopening does imply “forever”.
- Pundent - Thursday, May 14, 20 @ 7:10 pm:
Testing, tracing and treatment. That’s the plan. Always has been.
Now I’ll give you that with daily press conferences the question of vaccines does come up and one could conclude that’s the goal. But it’s certainly not attainable in the short term and may not come in the long term.
The virus has to be managed because it may not be eliminated. But it can be effectively managed.