47 Comments - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 1:48 pm: They have $52 million on hand to compete? Otherwise… this is a waste of time for those saying “the haves” need to keep more money as unemployment and economic issues are hitting the “have nots” harder. Heck, they should name this group… “Protect the Wealthy 3%” With $52 million, that’s what I’d call the group. All day… every day. - Nick Name - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 1:55 pm: ===grassroots campaign=== L, as they say, OL - Jibba - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 1:55 pm: ===that will do nothing to address sky-high property taxes=== So they want an even bigger state tax increase so that local taxes can be lowered? Noted. BTW, those “struggling” will need to make over $250K to pay anything more. I’d like to struggle that much. - Candy Dogood - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 1:56 pm: ===Vote No grassroots campaign=== *glances at list of speakers* Hey guys, I don’t think grassroots means what you think it means. - RNUG - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 1:58 pm: IPI keeps popping up every day on my Facebook page opposing the progressive income tax. They are fanning all the fears. Their latest pitch is that retirement income will soon be taxed … something that is nowhere in the currently passed bills or the Fair Tax amendment. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 1:58 pm: Grassroots? Since when is protecting the wealthy 3% considered grassroots? Are they trolling themselves? They’re trolling themselves, right? - Grandson of Man - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:04 pm: The outright lies about harming jobs, workers, middle class, etc, aka standard GOP tripe, reveal the indefensible position. How much money do they have to push this low cut of political meat on to voters? - The Captain - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:11 pm: $51.5 million vs. a press conference. Can I bet on this outcome at the new sportsbooks? - Donnie Elgin - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:13 pm: Never trust the promises state government or an agency of the state government makes when it comes to matters of money. A prime example was the “Toll-Free in 73″ promise around the Illinois Tollway. The current flat income tax protects us all from the inevitable expansion of the rates. https://abc7chicago.com/archive/8327185/ - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:15 pm: - Donnie Elgin - What don’t you “trust” Also, specifically show 60/71, 30/36, and a governor willing to sign what you don’t trust. Also, how many times were taxes raised in 30 years? Thanks. - Rich Miller - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:16 pm: ===The current flat income tax protects us all from the inevitable expansion of the rates=== LOL Rates are going up one way or another. If this fails, everybody’s gonna pay more. - 1st Ward - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:17 pm: Voting no and mind won’t be changed. Moody’s/S&P already stated more revenue will be needed regardless of passage. He can easily redomicile into another state after his governorship to avoid (Florida, Wisconsin etc.). Most of his income is exempt from this as they are likely owned through non-Illinois (likely Delaware) domiciled investment and holding companies as well as trusts. He lowered his property tax bill by removing toliets. It’s a tax for thee not for me with too many unintended consequences for the long-term. - M - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:20 pm: The Rs know if they publish their lies often enough the people will believe it. - RNUG - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:22 pm: == The current flat income tax protects us all from the inevitable expansion of the rates. == It doesn’t stop any tax increases; it just makes it more painful on all of us instead of the wealthier. The blunt truth is the State needs more revenue. If the Fair Tax amendment fails, the Legislature WILL pass a hike in the current income tax rate, probably to around 7%. It could go even higher if they decide to address local property taxes (aka school funding) with an income tax / property tax swap, possibly as high as 9% - 10%. - Carlton - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:31 pm: Probably says something that the three largest business groups in Illinois, IRMA, IMA and Chicagoland Chamber, aren’t part of the group. - Captain Obvious - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:38 pm: Everybody should pay. The whole state elected the fools who created this mess, not just the 3%. Only fair for everyone to sacrifice for the solution. All for one and all that. Share and share alike. - Pundent - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:38 pm: =He can easily redomicile into another state after his governorship to avoid (Florida, Wisconsin etc.)= Some Jedi mind trick to convince him to fund the effort to the tune of $52M given what you’ve deduced as the end game. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:41 pm: === Everybody should pay. The whole state elected the fools who created this mess, not just the 3%. Only fair for everyone to sacrifice for the solution.=== Everyone is still paying taxes. You know that, right? I dunno if protecting the 3% by saying everyone should pay “the same” is not a winning argument. That’s where $52 million will take that thought apart - Mama - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:42 pm: “Also, how many times were ‘taxes’ raised in 30 years? ” Does this question include the gas tax, income tax, property taxes plus cigarette & alcohol tax? - Mama - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:44 pm: Taxes on cars and trucks, etc.? - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:45 pm: === Does this question include the gas tax, income tax, property taxes plus cigarette & alcohol tax?=== Is this group above fighting… …the gas tax, income tax, property taxes plus cigarette & alcohol tax… Too? - James - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:48 pm: =outright lies about harming jobs, workers, middle class, etc, aka standard GOP tripe= When I see Todd Maisch’s name, I stop paying attention. He’s smart enough to know he’s lying–that’s much worse than lying inadvertently. - Mama - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:53 pm: Is this group above fighting… …the gas tax, income tax, property taxes plus cigarette & alcohol tax… Too? OW, they are including all taxes in their anti-tax ads. - Nagidam - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:54 pm: @ Carlton ===Probably says something that the three largest business groups in Illinois, IRMA, IMA and Chicagoland Chamber, aren’t part of the group.=== Word on the street is the groups you listed will have their own anti-progressive tax group run by old Rauner folks. IRMA, IMA, and Chicagoland Chamber have always gone it alone so this really doesn’t “say anything” - Flapdoodle - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:54 pm: Median household income in Illinois for past 12 months in 2018 dollars (https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/IL): $63, 575 before any deductions Flat tax at 4.95%: $60,428 Flat tax moves to 7% (following RNUG, which is always a good idea): $59,125 Difference: $1303 Fair Tax passes: You just saved $1303. Fair Tax fails: You just lost $1303. What’s so difficult about this? - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 2:55 pm: === they are including all taxes in their anti-tax ads.=== After $1.2 mil is gone, and Pritzker pounds with his $50+ million, you think trying to defend the 3% will work talking about those other taxes? It’s a dead end linking now, unless they have the cash to compete. - Annonin' - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 3:06 pm: Holy Smokey the SpankyBaise road show is comin’ to little Washington. How exciting. Need to check the tax breaks the site of the hoe down got - Back to the Future - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 3:10 pm: I think a progressive tax is a better idea than a flat tax, but I think this “Fair Tax” vote is going to be hard to win. By plucking down 51 million Pritzker has made himself an issue. I don’t think that is going to help. - thoughts matter - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 3:14 pm: = Everybody should pay. The whole state elected the fools who created this mess, not just the 3%. Only fair for everyone to sacrifice for the solution. All for one and all that. Share and share alike.== Captain Obvious- You do realize you just advocated for the current tax law to start taxing retirement income? That’s the third rail these people are trying to scare retirees with about the proposed graduateD tax. Even though no one except the detractors are even going near retirement income. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 3:15 pm: === By plucking down 51 million Pritzker has made himself an issue. I don’t think that is going to help.=== Depends how you spend the $50+ million. This group is already chasing, going after Pritzker AND the taxes with limited cash as they get walloped daily with $50+ million and “protecting the 3%”… that’s the real challenge - TinyDancer(FKASue) - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 3:16 pm: =…will end up raising taxes on the middle class and the working poor.= That’s just a bald-faced lie. But then, this is the Trump era - up is down, yes is no, night is day, wrong is right, etc. - 1st Ward - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 3:24 pm: =some Jedi mind trick….” The point being when Crains and other publications come out with headlines of Ken Griffin looked at re-domiciling Citadel to New York (last year) and is now setting up shop in Florida due to covid. This passage puts those tax revenues at risk of flight. Not just the millionaire/billionaires but all of the employees of their Firms and family office. https://www.chicagobusiness.com/finance-banking/griffin-mulled-moving-citadel-hq-out-chicago https://chicago.suntimes.com/coronavirus/2020/4/3/21207827/ken-griffin-citadel-securities-florida-hotel Go review how David Tepper’s move from New Jersey to Florida affected New Jersey state collections. Last Year Icahn announced Icahn Enterprises move to Florida as well due to taxes and business climate. https://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/10/david-tepper-relocation-to-florida-has-new-jersey-leaders-freaking-out.html https://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/06/billionaire-to-save-hundreds-of-millions-from-florida-move.html The amount JB is saying will be raised I find difficult becoming reality. In addition to personally re-domiciling its likely the Pritzker Group would as well after kids are out of high school/college. The tax savings would be significantly higher than $50MM he is spending on this campaign. Further, states/cities provide tax abatement’s/subsidies for them to stay which at best partially offsets the increase being passed onto them i.e. Connecticut and Bridgewater. https://patch.com/connecticut/westport/state-bonding-officials-approve-22m-package-keep-westports-bridgewater - Illinoised - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 3:35 pm: I didn’t understand how any person who earns less than $250k annually could oppose this, so I asked a friend who is earning barely above the minimum wage. He had not read the bill but said “ you Democrat’s are always wanting to revise taxes.” I told him his state income tax amount would be lowered. He replied, “But I it’s a progressive tax which means all of our tax bills would be progressively higher.” He had no interest in allowing me to explain a progressive tax. - Centennial - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 3:40 pm: If Todd is running the opposition, based on his record of success, JB has to feel pretty good on his odds. - City Zen - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 3:47 pm: ==Flat tax moves to 7%== The Fair Tax claims to raise an additional $3 billion in revenue. Your flat tax hike would raise $8 billion. Do you know something we don’t? - Froganon - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 3:54 pm: Those of us who are tired of seeing abused children slip through the cracks of an underfunded IDHS, having lead in our drinking water from old pipes and failing roads\bridges will vote for the Fair Tax. Taxes are what we pay to have decent roads and to take care of each other. The rest of you will reap the rewards-and kvetch every step of the way. - Pundent - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 3:58 pm: =This passage puts those tax revenues at risk of flight.= Save the millionaires doesn’t poll particularly well. I’m not sure what the counter argument to the fair tax is but this isn’t it. Given the choice of increasing taxes on millionaires vs. a tax on everyone most voters prefer the later. - Gas tax - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 4:14 pm: Why not a progressive gas tax for cars above say $50k seems about as fair , the 7 cent increase on July 1 was a boon to Indiana Wisconsin and Iowa . - 1st Ward - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 4:46 pm: @Pundent. Agree from a campaign messaging perspective “save the millionaire” is dumb. From a logical matter it does need to be considered. If one person staying or leaving can influence a budget to that degree that doesn’t bode well for the rest of us. @froganon the lead in our water from old pipes is due to mismanagement and lying from current/former politicians. The new ones being put in also have lead in them….. Also, less room for rate increases since Rahm put in a series of taxes on water for pension contributions. All fees/taxes collected by this agency should remain with said agency to ensure proper replacement and funding. https://www.npr.org/local/309/2019/04/02/708900376/chicago-s-way-of-replacing-broken-pipes-can-increase-lead-in-your-drinking-water https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-met-chicago-lead-pipes-lawsuit-20190523-story.html https://blockclubchicago.org/2019/01/02/2019-will-cost-you-more-in-chicago-a-list-of-new-laws-now-in-effect/ The roads issue again was due to mismanagement and raiding of the funds by the politicians in the state. IDHS failed protecting nursing homes isn’t a funding issue so much as a management and people issue at said agency. Everyone complains about funding but the funds have historically been mismanaged so lets give more funding? This doesn’t make sense to me. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 4:55 pm: === From a logical matter it does need to be considered. If one person staying or leaving can influence a budget to that degree that doesn’t bode well for the rest of us.=== That sounds like oligarchs running a state. Your advocacy for the wealthy few is scary to a state. If they’re gonna move, they’re gonna move. Playing for a few rich people, yeah, we fired Rauner for thinking about the rich. - 1st Ward - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 5:25 pm: @Oswego Willy. I get what you are saying but when Moody’s/S&P are say that if the Fair Tax is passed that more will be needed these individuals are paying attention. If the amendment and current proposed rates being announced solved the long-term issue i would be more likely to vote for it. Since more will be needed these individuals are going to look at the long term; what tax or what higher rate is coming next and plan accordingly. Continued higher rates on a select few whether its income, real-estate transfer, etc. leads to budget planning uncertainty/volatility due to the overall reliance on the few (see Cali and New York for this). We are also in a new environment due to Covid and companies in the white collar workforce are seeing how resilient their employees can be not to mention early albeit anecdotal trends coming out of New York and San Fran were (1) younger people not resigning leases and moving out of state (2) wealthy buying in suburbs not cities (in state and out of state), and (3) Facebook, Twitter, Google, etc. saying employees can work from home forever and encouraging the move out of state to pay lower salaries to employees. Alot of these employees are transplants and have no emotional attachment to the city or state. pre-covid this would not be something to be concerned about. Higher paying jobs are more mobile than lower paying jobs which is borne out in the employment data that we have seen over the past few months. My rate stays the same under what’s being proposed but if long-term i only need to be in office one or two times a week at most the probability of me staying in Chicago and Illinois decreases especially when more tax money will be needed from us. - Not a Billionaire - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 6:29 pm: That move to Florida over Covid showed his geni…..oh. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 6:32 pm: === I get what you are saying but when Moody’s/S&P are say that if the Fair Tax is passed that more will be needed these individuals are paying attention.=== I dunno what that means except catering to the wealthy who might move or not anyway isn’t solving anything. Further? Well, further, this idea that this one change solves everything, yeah, no one has said that, and ignoring more revenue because it hurts the 3% isn’t a great message either. Your straw man on Covid and mobility… that will effect all states, and Illinois still does tax retirement income. There aren’t places like Chicago, where a super vast majority of the 3% live, then according to your straw man every state will face this challenge too, but the revenue will still be needed. The end game is this to the CA; The Raunerites who are protecting the 3% need $50 million as the wealthy will get walloped by these folks making it about, as you have, “we need the rich to save us” What Illinois learned from Rauner is the rich, given the chance, will hurt the poor to stay rich… every time. With respect. - RNUG - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 11:09 pm: == Do you know something we don’t? == Three points: 1) It will be less revenue due to tax avoidance / business flight. 2) $3B isn’t enough when the current State budget is unbalanced by $5B - $6B 3) When the original flat income tax was passed, they raised the initial rate high enough that there was ‘extra’ money that could be used for constituent services (aka pork barrel spending) so they could demonstrate the new income tax was providing things to the tax payers. But they spent the ‘excess’ so fast they had to resort to shorting the pension payments in FY75. Plus the GA is usually reluctant to raise taxes very often, and when they do, they usually go for a large bite. I expect the same thing this time. - RNUG - Monday, Jul 6, 20 @ 11:13 pm: == Why not a progressive gas tax for cars above say $50k seems about as fair == Don’t know about now (and too lazy to check this late at night), but 30 some years ago Colorado based their license plate fees on the purchase price of the car. So it isn’t all that ridiculous to envision something like that - Not a Billionaire - Tuesday, Jul 7, 20 @ 1:02 am: Clay county got 2 to 5 million from the PPP program. - Rabid - Tuesday, Jul 7, 20 @ 6:23 am: The old fast one, turn income taxes into property taxes, confuse the situation for low information voters Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.