* Tribune…
After statements by some Black Lives Matter Chicago leaders in support of looting, Gov. J.B. Pritzker on Wednesday tried to separate illegal acts from support for the movement’s larger goal of restorative justice.
* There have been a lot of statements from various folks, but here’s BLM organizer Ariel Atkins via WBEZ…
A lot of people are really attacking our pages. They’re like, ‘Oh, you support the looters.’ And yeah, we do, 100%. That’s reparations. And like however people choose to protest, especially if it was definitely in line with what happened with the shooting, which would be powerful to see people reacting … without organizers just being like, ‘We’re angry and this is what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna take the power back.’
I feel like these stores, these Macy’s, these Guccis, the PNC Banks, they’re not here for us. The city puts way more money and investment into spending time and protecting their spaces and making sure that they exist. And yet our people are constantly being pushed out of the city. … Unemployment is incredibly high, like we are in an incredible situation, and the fact that anybody gives a s*** about these businesses over what is happening in this city right now and the pain that people are in and the suffering that is taking place, I don’t care. I will support the looters ‘till the end of the day. If that’s what they need to do in order to eat, then that’s what you’ve got to do to eat.
* Gov. Pritzker’s quote…
First of all, anybody who is looting, or shooting or breaking the law should be held responsible. Period. End of sentence. So, let’s set that as a baseline.
People who are protesting, and voicing their concerns and standing up for people’s rights and doing it in a peaceful fashion, they have every right to do that, but those are two very different things.
And we need to at least recognize that all of us who have stood up for Black Lives Matter, who care deeply about the city are standing up for the right to peacefully protest and standing up for the fact that Black communities, frankly, all communities of color have been disinvested from, and that it’s time for us to step up and do the right thing. This is part of what you’re hearing us do here with the BIG program.
More info on the referenced program is here.
* Back to the Tribune story…
Black Lives Matter Chicago has held several demonstrations in recent days, with leaders saying the weekend’s downtown looting was a reaction to a police-involved shooting in Englewood.
Latrell Allen, 20, was shot and wounded by police in Englewood on Sunday after he allegedly shot at officers investigating a report of a man with a gun at a playground where children were playing, according to prosecutors. Allen is being held on $1 million bond.
There was no body-camera footage of the shooting, which Black Lives Matter Chicago has pointed to while questioning the details provided by police.
* You may have read about a confrontation in Englewood earlier this week when groups dominated by younger people (like BLM) were shouted down by Englewood-based activists and told to leave their neighborhood. Click here for a good explainer by Will Lee. And this is from Block Club Chicago’s coverage…
With news cameras rolling, they didn’t want the protesters to be the only ones speaking for the people of Englewood. And when outside protesters get the police upset, they leave neighborhood residents to deal with angry police, [Darryl Smith, Englewood Political Task Force president] said.
“Y’all see the riot gear? This the s— we gotta deal when y’all leave,” he said. […]
They think Englewood residents are being largely blamed for the Downtown looting that took place overnight Sunday, noting Police Supt. David Brown said the first reported incident of looting happened at 87th and the Dan Ryan, outside of Englewood.
“Why would a person from Englewood, from 63rd Street, go to 87th Street and start a caravan to go Downtown? We would just get on the expressway and go downtown.” Smith said.
Good point.
* There is definitely a generational thing happening here…
West Side political elders on Wednesday condemned recent looting — even though they understand the pain behind it — and warned it would only hurt the quest to rebuild impoverished neighborhoods.
U.S. Rep. Danny Davis said he feels every bit as much “anger,” “frustration” and “rage” about “what the country has done to my ancestors — to me, to my neighbors to my friends” as the young people who answered a social media call to start looting downtown Chicago, fueled by erroneous details about a police shooting in Englewood.
Stacy Davis Gates of the CTU responds to the article…
- NIU Grad - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:17 am:
CTU back to their “winning hearts and minds” strategy…
- Bruce( no not him) - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:21 am:
“First of all, anybody who is looting, or shooting or breaking the law should be held responsible. Period. End of sentence. “
I can’t disagree with this.
- Grandson of Man - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:23 am:
Totally agree with Pritzker. However, the festering rage of the ignored and marginalized has to be eased. It’s been a long time coming, unfortunately. America rewards the richest with massive federal assistance through needless tax cuts, deregulation, stripping workers rights and the like. We need to wake up as well.
- Bob_Loblaw - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:26 am:
Agree with Ms Atkins 100%. Effective protests force reckonings. If windows and insured merchandise is more important than people getting killed, your priorities are messed up. When the only people who have faith in the system are the ones the system protects, that edifice has to be toppled to create the reckoning. Elected leaders have had decades to deal with any facet of this snowballing crisis: poverty, brutality, racism, and they’ve done nothing. Now the people take what’s theirs
- Ron - In Texas - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:28 am:
They have to get the looting under control. It was one thing to let it go while dealing with thousands of peaceful folks, and a few jerks. But when it turns into looting vs a real protest and no one stops it, regular folks notice. business folks notice.
If government cant keep the peace and have a level of safety and stability, people will leave, vote in a new gov, or take maters into their own hands.
- Just Me 2 - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:29 am:
It’s amazing to me how the mission of the CTU has gone from representing teachers to being a “social justice” advocacy group.
- Frumpy White Guy - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:32 am:
Why does anyone have to say shooting and looting is wrong? Something is very wrong that we even have to convince anyone that shooting and looting is wrong. Oh how times have changed. smh.
- Donnie Elgin - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:34 am:
One voice is clear above the din of typical political cross-talk…
“BLM organizer Ariel Atkins via WBEZ
‘A lot of people are really attacking our pages. They’re like Oh, you support the looters.’ And yeah, we do, 100%. That’s reparations”
Just let that sink in, and be thoughtful about which movement you support.
- low level - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:37 am:
People defending looting keep arguing that it will all be paid for by insurance, so no big deal.
What isnf mentioned is the premiums that will increase as a result and make it prohibitive for many small businesses to stay open. If the stores close, there wont be anything left to loot.
- Demoralized - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:40 am:
==That’s reparations.==
No, it’s stealing. None of those businesses owe you anything.
- Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:44 am:
Nicely done by JB.
It’s a terrible shame that it has to even be said.
This sort of behavior,associated with peaceful demonstrations, not only undermines, but negates any positives that could come about.
- Cubs in '16 - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:45 am:
===Effective protests force reckonings.===
Are all unlawful actions justified or just certain ones? What about murder? Where is the line drawn in your mind?
- dan l - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:49 am:
//Are all unlawful actions justified or just certain ones? What about murder? Where is the line drawn in your mind?//
Quite the slope you’ve found there.
- Cook county thinker - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:51 am:
What Danny Davis has to say is quite important. The West Side hasn’t come back from the riots 50 years ago. Those who think it’s okay to lose downtown are going to in for a big surprise. With more people working from home because of the internet downtown isn’t as necessary. Since Chicago gets a lot of sales tax revenue from those 13 blocks on Magnificent Mile where are they supposed to make it up if people don’t feel safe?
- Bob_Loblaw - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:51 am:
== Are all unlawful actions justified or just certain ones? What about murder? Where is the line drawn in your mind?==
“The line” is gone, that’s the point. Police continue to murder unarmed civilians. There is no line any more. Order can only happen when people have faith in the system maintaining it. That faith is gone for a growing number of people. Where I personally draw the line is meaningless. Where the law draws the line should be the standard. People didn’t bother asking these questions for decades of redlining, police brutality, drug wars, etc. but a couple weeks of theft at fancy stores? Oh now we want to talk about order. That’s the reckoning. And it’s good it’s happening.
- City Guy - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:53 am:
I think the Beatles’ “Say you want a revolution” captures a lot of people’s views, including mine. I support BLM, but when they start supporting violence and mob activity, count me out.
The BLM voices supporting the looting need to look ahead and recognize that no one benefits.
I may have missed her comments, but I wish Mayor Lightfoot would stand up to this revolutionary strain of BLM.
- Jose Abreu's Next Homer - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:57 am:
I’m still shocked they destroyed the ground floor windows of the Ronald McDonald House. I guess that place was really asking for it.
- SAP - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:57 am:
When looters hit the fancy stores on Michigan Avenue, there are a lot of hard-working men and women who cannot work.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:58 am:
=== First of all, anybody who is looting, or shooting or breaking the law should be held responsible. Period. End of sentence. So, let’s set that as a baseline.===
That’s the ball game, for me.
And while an organizer sees this looting and criminal activity as part and parcel to a broader discussion, the reality, for me, is supporting the movement of change and ending systemic and institutional racism, while at the same time the criminal activity is running during this time of change.
The criminal activity is letting angry racist try to sow fear and angst, like Sparta fearing Antifa… and try to undermine the already less than encompassing language of support for looting.
It was good the governor said what he said.
- Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:58 am:
well done JB.
Ms Atkins. You have negated all the good that could be done by peaceful demonstrations.
- Not a Billionaire - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 10:59 am:
To follow on Cool County thinker there are about 600000 jobs or I should say were. It’s not hard to find studies and stories that work from home is a success. Most of those jobs could work from home. I am using Where Workers Work. Those jobs that aren’t are dependent on a downtown population or tourism. I thought as many as a third of the jobs stay at home but if it goes to half of could be just so big and empty everyone goes away.
- Ron - In Texas - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:00 am:
@bob_loblaw
“Effective protests force reckonings. If windows and insured merchandise is more important than people getting killed, your priorities are messed up”
Not sure anyone is saying that. But when did Macy’s or the Apple store set police training standards? Or police policy? When did a small business owner have anything to do with government policies?
That like saying “People get killed by the government (CPD lets say), so its ok to burn down houses in the suburbs… as long as they are insured and no one gets hurt” Um. no.
- Louis G Atsaves - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:04 am:
Not only did they vandalize the Ronald McDonald House they also smashed the windows of the Anti-Cruelty Society building. Because? Lots of plywood up.
- Three Dimensional Checkers - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:07 am:
That’s some pretty thick gaslighting from Ms. Atkins.
- Derek Smalls - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:09 am:
It is not a binary choice, protect downtown or address the real needs in neighborhoods, you can do both. The problem is that protecting downtown can be done relatively quickly, addressing the needs in neighborhoods is a much more complex and long term effort, can’t just flip a switch and equity appears. The challenge for LL is how to achieve enough progress on equity issues fast enough to limit outbreaks of violence.
In regard to the BLM activist “Winning has come through revolts. Winning has come through riots.” Are assault, arson, etc. off limits, or is looting the only socially acceptable felony in pursuit of “winning”?
- Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:09 am:
Bob@10:26. Your comments are ridiculous. Except the one sentence…elected leaders have had decades….sounds like you have had enough of the two party system.
- Miso - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:10 am:
“Now the people take what’s theirs.”
Sounds like a sex assault I once saw prosecuted…. after all, he bought her dinner.
That’s one type of person that makes statements like that.
Abhorrent
- 1st Ward - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:14 am:
“America rewards the richest with massive federal assistance through needless tax cuts, deregulation, stripping workers rights and the like”
I’m assuming you don’t live in Chicago or Illinois. The “fair tax” is on the ballot. What deregulation and stripping of workers rights has taken place at the city, county or state level? If anything these have strengthened i.e. passing of $15 minimum wage, fair workweek ordinance, new school funding formula with a focus on equity, politically powerful unions; both public and private, collective bargaining, favorable pensions, and ability to strike. A prior Governor was unsuccessful at getting rid of these and was fired.
To the post:
Whether its Chicago, Seattle, Portland, etc. Government is willfully blind and eager to sacrifice the younger generations to protect the older generation given their voting representation. This is quickly changing given demographic shifts. I’m not advocating that schools open or “open the economy” but when these are all closed, the parks are closed with the basketball rims taken off what are you saying to them? When the younger generations are taking the brunt of the layoffs, have massive student loan debt, and we are 5 months in with no end in sight what are these individuals supposed to do? Sit inside and play xbox for 12 - 18 months straight? There has been no strategic thinking at any level of Government to innovate and give youth something to do. If police brutality didn’t lite the match something else would in short-order. What this has quickly become is occupy 2.0 on a larger scale in this country. These events will continue to happen over the next couple of years given the severity and duration of the crises at hand. Blame Trump, blame the “radical left” this has been building since post-08 and now its part 2. The politicians still don’t get it just say what you have to say to get elected. Not much legislative action in most of the country (local/state/federal) over the past how many months to address any of this.
- Bob_Loblaw - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:15 am:
== Your comments are ridiculous==
I think history disagrees. Change never comes without the reckoning, and people always have to be shaken to see it. How many riots and how much blood was spilled before Civil Rights Act was passed? None of this follows a script. None of this is binary. These are almost laws of nature. No justice, no peace isn’t a slogan. It’s a warning about how society functions. When there is no justice, there can be no peace. The Ronald McDonald house isn’t a target. It’s a building that exists in a place with no justice, and consequently no peace. We’re all victims of it. The looting just affirms that fact. You can’t create islands of peace when the rest don’t have justice.
- Demoralized - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:17 am:
==Now the people take what’s theirs==
Except it’s not theirs. I’m a white guy. Should these people be able to smash into my house and take “what’s theirs?”
Your argument is asinine.
- ajjacksson - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:22 am:
-Totally agree with Pritzker. However,….
I think Pritzker said “Period. End of Statement.”
- Bob_Loblaw - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:22 am:
== Should these people be able to smash into my house and take “what’s theirs?”==
You’re trapped in the shoulds and goods when again this is just nature taking its course. The storm shouldn’t knock my tree over, but sometimes it does. People shouldn’t loot, but if there are no laws anymore and no faith in the social order, that’s going to happen. I have way more confidence in the looters being held accountable than I do in any abusive police officer getting more than a slap on the wrist for murder. There are protestors in America facing life in prison for buying paint
- ajjacksson - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:22 am:
Sorry. He said “End of sentence.”
- Levois J - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:24 am:
If it’s generational then the young people don’t understand the long term consequences of their actions. Go ahead and loot downtown and suggest all those businesses got insurance. It’s not going to stop there! It started at 87th Street strangely enough then went downtown the next day they started to tear up the west side. It’s going to be devastation and who wants that?
- dan l - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:29 am:
//Except it’s not theirs. I’m a white guy. Should these people be able to smash into my house and take “what’s theirs?”
Your argument is asinine.//
Except, that’s not what’s happening, right? This looting, albeit woefully misguided, is definitely targeted at retail.
Multiple things can be true here. You can say “these acts are criminal and should be prosecuted” and “these acts are at least in part backlash from long standing inequities that are baked into our collective cake and while not justified, certainly understandable”.
- beverly - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:32 am:
Of course they ’should’
but ‘will’ they be?
- Blue Beard - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:34 am:
Stacy Davis Gates is going to have a tough time running for Mayor when she encourages looting “downtown”.
Of the people living there, most rely on very few city services yet pay an exorbitant amount of property taxes.
And I haven’t even touched on the amount of tax revenue those businesses generate.
Kind of hard to fund schools and other social services when you nuke one of your biggest sources of revenue.
- Demoralized - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:35 am:
==certainly understandable==
No it’s not. It is not understandable that you get to respond to one wrong by committing another wrong. And anyone who defends that is doing nothing but defending criminals. Why would you want to sully this legitimate movement by supporting a response that involves people committing crimes?
- pool boy - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:37 am:
In society we have laws and norms that should be followed. Saying that looting and stealing is reparations is ridiculous. How is stealing something from someone “making amends”?
- Socially DIstant Watcher - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:41 am:
Reparations are dicey enough as it is, but BLM should be more careful about claiming them in this situation. If they’ve already got reparations, what claim do they have to more through civil processes?
- Iowa City - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:45 am:
Thank you JB for the unequivocation. Why can’t all politicians say this. Now we just need the States Attorney to ensure these people are locked up, not catch and release and fail to prosecute.
- BigDoggie - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:47 am:
I can’t imagine anyone giving $$ to the BLM organization after this very shortsighted opinion, and their use of looting as an outright threat. The City better get a handle on it quick, because if it keeps happening, say goodbye to lots of businesses, and you may see some of the developments that are underway suddenly decide to pack it in and get out of Dodge. Hello Detroit!
- Ryan - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:48 am:
>Effective protest forces reckonings.
Effective protest in the early 1960s brought massive change.
Violent protest at the end of the 1960s brought a reckoning - two terms of Richard Nixon and the end of progress.
- BigDoggie - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:49 am:
Hey Bob Loblaw, what if people took “whats theirs” from your home. Would that make it any different??
- Bob_Loblaw - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:54 am:
== Effective protest in the early 1960s brought massive change.
Violent protest at the end of the 1960s brought a reckoning - two terms of Richard Nixon and the end of progress.==
Total revisionism. The riots happened before, during, and after the so-called progress. And just like today, the people hated and largely ignored the peaceful protests too. MLK has net negative favor ability when he died and he caught the blame for the riots then too. And I promise my view is closer to his than yours is. “The riot is the language of the unheard”
- 1st Ward - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 11:55 am:
Anyone following Crains the past few days? The amount of articles that have been run on people/businesses potentially leaving the city has been eye opening. There’s been two or three others just this week in addition to the below.
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/residential-real-estate/message-mayor-homeowners-we-represent-do-not-feel-safe
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/joe-cahill-business/whats-stake-all-us-if-looting-flares-again
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/residential-real-estate/homeowners-questioning-city-life-after-weeks-unrest
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/government/latest-downtown-looting-has-some-rethinking-commitment-city
- low level - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 12:08 pm:
“…two terms of Richard Nixon and the end of progress.”
Yep. Then Reagan, Bush and a complete rightward shift
- Glenn - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 12:10 pm:
I’m am willing to venture that Amazon has damaged and closed more retail businesses than did the recent retail lootings, without suffering the consequences of anti-trust laws written under FDR to save capitalism from its self-defeating monopolistic excesses.
Where are the parties on anti-monopoly laws?
Lower prices are not a good thing if it makes necessities unaffordable due to wages falling faster than Amazon prices.
- 1st Ward - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 12:26 pm:
“Where are the parties on anti-monopoly laws?”
The problem with this is the scale has changed. They are U.S. monopolies but not global monopolies in a global system. Instead of Amazon its Alibaba; instead of Facebook its Tick-Tok; instead of Apple its Samsung. U.S. Government has less control over Tick-Tok’s parent, BABA, and Samsung given their headquarters. Someone will fill the void of scale if you trust bust the American companies. I’m not sure that’s a better outcome down the road.
- Shytown - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 12:28 pm:
The far left is losing ground here. But worst of all their words and actions may backfire on us in November hurting the very people they say they’re looking out for.
- dan l - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 12:32 pm:
//No it’s not. It is not understandable that you get to respond to one wrong by committing another wrong. And anyone who defends that is doing nothing but defending criminals. Why would you want to sully this legitimate movement by supporting a response that involves people committing crimes?//
Uh. That’s not what I said.
- Bob_Loblaw - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 12:40 pm:
== The far left is losing ground here. But worst of all their words and actions may backfire on us in November hurting the very people they say they’re looking out for.==
The collective moral conscience of the Democratic Party is eternally trapped in 1968. All the lessons they learned led us right back here except with a depression this time, so maybe they learned the wrong lessons?
- Bruce - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 12:56 pm:
Insurance is a pooling of risks. Claims reduce that pool. Pool is replenished by premiums. If pool is really depleted by concentrated catastrophic losses…all premiums increase. So the farmer in Litchfield Pays for the loss of grocery store on La Salle street.
Think about it. It’s Zero sum idea.
- Logical Thinker - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 12:57 pm:
I’m sorry if I’m misunderstanding something but is someone openly calling for and promoting riots and disorder in these comments?
- Dotnonymous - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 12:57 pm:
America is in the process of checking itself…quite belatedly.
The rise of humanity is an up and down affair…Going up or down? is always the question…Seeking justice is all ways up.
I’m proud of every courageous American protester…It’s the American way…foreword.
- Mason born - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 1:06 pm:
Bob
-You’re trapped in the shoulds and goods when again this is just nature taking its course.-
That doesn’t strike you as a bad thing? If it’s natural law then the next step would be for the businesses to hire security forces to protect their property. I don’t think it’s a good thing for Chicago, IL, or the protestors to have brawls between private, potentially armed, security forces and looters/protestors. That strikes me as an ever increasing tense terrible scenario.
- Annoyed - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 1:09 pm:
Bob it’s people like you that will result
in me voting for every R on the ballot except for Biden. And this coming from someone who has only voted for 2 R’s ever, Bob Dole and Peter Fitzgerald.
- Todd - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 1:09 pm:
I would like to point out that Demoralized has made three comments today — ALL of which I agree with. Might have to make a FB post for it to become a memory I celebrate every year.
- Tynie - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 1:09 pm:
Logical Thinker, I had the same question.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 1:13 pm:
==I would like to point out that Demoralized has made three comments today — ALL of which I agree with==
On the same day a peace agreement was announced between Israel and the United Arab Emerites. Peace in the Middle East and Todd and me on the same page. Exciting.
- Demoralized - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 1:14 pm:
That was me above
- Bob_Loblaw - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 1:30 pm:
As a non-Democrat arguing against the response by Democrats, I’m not totally sure what this means or what impact you want it to have on me
- nicky - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 1:32 pm:
Stating the obvious
- Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 1:33 pm:
Bob. In my day, I was a radical, somewhat,violent union guy. I turned into a capitalist. But I still love my unions. Heres what I learned. The violence was stupid and only hurt our cause. The only thing that catches the eye of anyone is the power of the purse or the power of the voting booth.
- Bob_Loblaw - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 1:33 pm:
== If it’s natural law then the next step would be for the businesses to hire security forces to protect their property.==
Then you aren’t interested in addressing a problem or its causes. You’re interested in reacting. You can stop the looting by stopping the police violence. You can’t end police violence by simply reacting to the looting.
- Downstate Illinois - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 1:45 pm:
Now that you’ve found your spine JB remember you’re the commander in chief of the Illinois National Guard.
- Bob_Loblaw - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 1:46 pm:
== The only thing that catches the eye of anyone is the power of the purse or the power of the voting booth.==
Looking around you, how’d that work out?
- Bob_Loblaw - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 1:47 pm:
Comment at 1:30 direct at Annoyed
- Ron - In Texas - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 2:00 pm:
@bob
//Then you aren’t interested in addressing a problem or its causes. You’re interested in reacting. You can stop the looting by stopping the police violence. You can’t end police violence by simply reacting to the looting.//
Again… how does Macy’s or the Ronald McDonald House or the small business owner stop police violence?
they dont make policy. they try to sell goods, and run a business. You and those doing the looting, backing the looting, etc are hurting the cause.
- Bob_Loblaw - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 2:06 pm:
== how does Macy’s or the Ronald McDonald House or the small business owner stop police violence?==
Already answered. Without justice, there is no peace. We’re all victims of injustice, but relative peace blinds us to this reality. The riot lifts that veil. We can’t not talk about our relation to injustice now. It’s a reckoning. It forces people to chose between lives and windows. You choose windows. It’s clarifying. It’s honest.
== You and those doing the looting, backing the looting, etc are hurting the cause.==
Again, not backing it because that’s the wrong paradigm. I acknowledge the reality. As to hurting the cause, polling seems to directly contradict that claim.
- Glenn - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 2:14 pm:
== 1st Ward - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 12:26 pm:==
“Someone will fill the void of scale if you trust bust the American companies. I’m not sure that’s a better outcome down the road.”
That may be true. Not a pretty picture.
So if there is no solution then things won’t get better because desperate people will continue to do desperate things.
More desperate people means fireproof bulletproof stores will be the future for retail, if there is a future for them at all.
Amazon delivery trucks will have to be armored like Brinks trucks.
That future looks like a dystopian sci-fi future movie.
I can’t believe there’s not a more rational less costly solution to this impoverished unemployed-persons problem brought to our front doors by high tech monopolies.
- Ron - In Texas - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 2:17 pm:
@bob
we will have to agree to disagree. You are backing a mindset (punish these people, who have nothing to do with it) that is also seen police racial profiling and violence.
If you can’t see that we will just disagree.
- Bob_Loblaw - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 2:24 pm:
== You are backing a mindset (punish these people, who have nothing to do with it) that is also seen police racial profiling and violence.==
Happy to agree to disagree, but at least understand what you’re disagreeing with. The wind isn’t punishing me if it blows over my shoddily constructed shed. Actions and reactions. A functioning society would have neither looting nor unaccountable police violence. We maintained relative peace for some despite having widespread police violence for quite awhile. That relative peace is over, owing to lots of other conflagrations. The peaceful pleas went unanswered, faith eroded. I want a society with neither looting nor police violence. You seem willing to settle for a return to relative peace in absence of justice.
- Mason born - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 2:30 pm:
-Then you aren’t interested in addressing a problem or its causes. You’re interested in reacting. You can stop the looting by stopping the police violence. You can’t end police violence by simply reacting to the looting.-
No actually Bob the business owner will be trying to preserve his business for his/her family, employees, customers, etc. It doesn’t mean they don’t care about the problem they simply need to protect their livelihoods while they work on the problem. You can’t think that it’s Natural for people to riot and loot without acknowledging that protecting a business form rioting and looting is also Natural.
You seem to think this is an instant fix problem that a businessman is simply not choosing to do. that’s a novel thought but, IMHO, this is going to take some time to address requiring systematic changes in police practice, hiring, and discipline as well as rebuilding trust with multiple communities, etc. That’s not exactly something 1 business person can accomplish in a week.
- Ron - In Texas - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 2:30 pm:
@bob
we are not wind. We are thinking beings. If they want change, loot Lori Lightfoot’s house. Go to Kim Foxx’s place and riot. Go to all the alderman. Muhammad the shop owner has no say. get real.
- Annoyed - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 2:33 pm:
And to Bob the Looter, it appears you didn’t understand my post nor want to understand it. So with Ron agree to disagree.
- Amalia - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 2:34 pm:
Ariel Atkins has sealed the deal….Chicago is sure to be the focus of a big Trump commercial on this topic. thanks for taking the movement backwards.
- Bob_Loblaw - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 2:37 pm:
Annoyed, I asked for your help understanding. As a non-Democrat actively working against the Democratic response to these protests, I’m not sure what signal youre sending me by choosing to support Republicans. I also won’t be voting for Democrats
- Bob_Loblaw - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 2:39 pm:
== No actually Bob the business owner will be trying to preserve his business for his/her family, employees, customers, etc. ==
Really unsure what this has to do with anything. That’s a normal reaction. It also doesn’t actually address why the looting is happening.
- Bob_Loblaw - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 2:51 pm:
I’m just going to make one last comment because most people seem to be dancing around the same issue. We are all victims of injustice. Looting and riots are a manifestation of that. Telling me insurance premiums will rise is a manifestation of that. Telling me a business owner is just protecting his family is a manifestation of that. It’s all the same thing. It’s all fruit of the poisonous tree. But where your moral compass is broken is where you insist the injustice can’t be addressed until its manifestations quit inconveniencing you, the previously unscathed.
Yes we have individual agency, but our society depends on a critical mass of us marching in the same direction, following the same rules, sharing the same values. We don’t have that any more. Masses of individuals are losing faith in the entire social order. When that happens, unrest is inevitable.
More police, security guards, bulletproof windows, moving, all expensive bandaids that push resolution away.
- Todd - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 2:53 pm:
==That relative peace is over, owing to lots of other conflagrations. The peaceful pleas went unanswered, faith eroded. ==
Justice by who’s standards? by your account of the peace being over you seem to readily accept the execution of Cannon Hinnant as just collateral damage for other injustices or wrongs.
If you shrug your shoulders at the looting as being part and parcel of grievances unanswered by the powers that be, almost exclusively democratic leadership in Cook & Chicago, then don’t be surprised when people from Dekalb to Cairo shrug their shoulders at Austin or Englewood.
I’ve had lots of disagreements with demoralized, but at least he’s an honest debater in his positions.
- Lucky Pierre - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 2:53 pm:
Why doesn’t JB ask the rioters to work from home like everybody else?
- Glenn - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 2:59 pm:
There are bad apples among the police who are turning desperate people into bad apples, and vice versa.
A bad apple SPOILS THE BUNCH.
The tendency of those pushed is to push back.
These lootings could become the Battles of the Bad Bunches unless cooler heads prevail.
The US has 5% of the world’s population and 25% of the world’s prison population.
I think law enforcement has used their tools past the point of usefulness without rectification of a problem too many people think police can solve.
Police can only contain the desperate and channel them toward more productive ends. Police cannot create those more productive ends.
The definition of “insanity” has been described as “doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting a different result.”
- 1st Ward - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 3:20 pm:
“@Glenn reply to 2:14 pm comment”
It’s education and re-training. We do not do this well as a country. Big-Tech is an easy scapegoat today. In ten years it won’t be. AI is rendering repetitive tasks obsolete. Where are the high school classes for robotics, coding, and machine learning so kids get exposed or interested in these fields?
To work at a Big-Bank these days you better know tech. This is happening throughout all industries.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/12/citigroup-could-shed-as-much-as-half-of-its-20000-tech-and-operations-staff-due-to-automation.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/19/jp-morgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-bets-on-silicon-valley-with-fintech-campus.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-28/jpmorgan-marshals-an-army-of-developers-to-automate-high-finance
- Excitable Boy - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 4:22 pm:
- execution of Cannon Hinnant as just collateral damage for other injustices or wrongs. -
Pretty big leap there, Todd. You’re lumping a North Carolina child murderer with no discernible motive in with Chicago looters, just because he’s black?
Not sure that’s very sound logic.
- Allin - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 4:40 pm:
Bob_Loblaw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9MiS9tn_r4
- Todd - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 5:00 pm:
EB –
if there is no peace, then all these things are tolerated. Its the end of the logic extended.
- Swatos - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 5:02 pm:
Sounds to me like Atkins will have a nice cushy job in the Trump Administration next year.
- Excitable Boy - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 5:07 pm:
- all these things are tolerated -
No one is talking about tolerating murder.
Very few are advocating tolerating looting. Many are disagreeing about the cause and solutions to the looting.
- Demoralized - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 5:08 pm:
==because most people seem to be dancing around the same issue==
Nobody is dancing around any issue. You’re trying to justify looting. Just because someone has a grievance (and the larger issue of police brutality is a justifiable grievance) doesn’t mean you can then respond to that grievance using criminal behavior. You only cheapen the movement when you and people like you attempt to pretzel your way into justifying stealing.
- Two to tango - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 5:10 pm:
== then don’t be surprised when people from Dekalb to Cairo shrug their shoulders at Austin or Englewood.==
You know the looters are from Austin or Englewood? How do you know that? Are they your friends? Please explain.
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 5:13 pm:
===don’t be surprised when people from Dekalb to Cairo shrug their shoulders at Austin or Englewood===
Not much of a threat.
I mean, you think they cared before?
lol
- logic not emotion - Thursday, Aug 13, 20 @ 5:18 pm:
How is damaging a Ronald McDonald house helping anyone? How is the violence helping anyone? It helps convince people not to build, live, donate, or invest in that area.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Friday, Aug 14, 20 @ 6:10 am:
== How is damaging a Ronald McDonald house helping anyone? How is the violence helping anyone?==
A good sleuth will find out who it helps. Then he/she can find who did the damage.
- Two to tango - Friday, Aug 14, 20 @ 6:25 am:
== If it’s generational then the young people don’t understand the long term consequences of their actions.==
You’re blaming young people? Why?
- Two to tango - Friday, Aug 14, 20 @ 6:31 am:
== Bob it’s people like you that will result in me voting for every R on the ballot except for Biden. And this coming from someone who has only voted for 2 R’s ever, Bob Dole and Peter Fitzgerald.==
So you’re going to vote against Democrats because you’re angry about what some non Democrat says? Wow. Shear genius.
Also pick a name.
- Fly like an eagle - Friday, Aug 14, 20 @ 6:36 am:
== Where are the high school classes for robotics, coding, and machine learning so kids get exposed or interested in these fields?==
You can find all that at your friendly neighborhood community college.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Friday, Aug 14, 20 @ 7:07 am:
=== The far left is losing ground here. But worst of all their words and actions may backfire on us in November hurting the very people they say they’re looking out for.===
“The far left “ Hmmm. I think the looters have an ideological brotherhood with the umbrella man myself.
- Swatos - Friday, Aug 14, 20 @ 8:01 am:
==Thank you JB for the unequivocation. Why can’t all politicians say this. Now we just need the States Attorney to ensure these people are locked up, not catch and release and fail to prosecute.==
So you missed this? Foxx: “ We conflate protesters, looters. They’re two different groups,” she said. “We will hold accountable those who are seeking to exploit this moment.” And “Looters have been charged and are awaiting trial.”
May turn off fox with the one x.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Friday, Aug 14, 20 @ 8:19 am:
=== I’m sorry if I’m misunderstanding something but is someone openly calling for and promoting riots and disorder in these comments?===
No
- Debtster - Friday, Aug 14, 20 @ 8:48 am:
=== Stacy Davis Gates is going to have a tough time running for Mayor when she encourages looting “downtown”.===
Show me where she said she encourages looting.
It’s hard to have a productive dialogue when people like you just make things up.