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Unclear on the concept
Friday, Aug 21, 2020 - Posted by Rich Miller * Tribune editorial…
Yes, because the General Assembly and the governor spent all that time and energy getting the graduated income tax amendment on the ballot and the governor is now spending at minimum $50 million so the state can… raise taxes on everyone? The idea here is to make it possible to raise taxes on upper income earners. Does that mean a tax hike on middle income earners will never happen? Of course it could. But it won’t be nearly as easy to do that as raising taxes again on the top 3 percent. This is why the opposition is so up in arms. Billionaires and multi-millionaires ain’t about to spend a fortune to prevent tax hikes on folks making $50,000 a year. Also, make no mistake here, if the “Fair Tax” proposition fails, the flat tax the Tribune prefers is surely going to be increased on everyone, not just the top 3 percent. * John Kass…
Can we move along now, please? Sheesh. I mean, we had 16 years of columns about how, any day now, Speaker Madigan was gonna engineer a pathway to the governor’s office for his attorney general daughter. In the end, she quit the game because her father wouldn’t step aside. JB Pritzker didn’t spend a zillion dollars to be elected governor to get himself a back bench seat in the Senate.
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- Almost the weekend - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:09 am:
Read that Kass article this morning on page 2 of the Tribune (s/). Some people like to hear themselves talk, Kass likes to see his words in print even if they make absolutely no sense and go nowhere.
- jimbo26 - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:11 am:
Trib continues to speak for the rich.
- Vote Quimby - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:13 am:
Not bleeping golden…. not even gold-plated.
- @misterjayem - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:13 am:
Once again, the clownishness of the Tribune’s opinion writers casts an ugly shadow on the paper’s top-quality reporters.
It’s obscene.
– MrJM
- Lester Holt’s Mustache - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:15 am:
The best thing JB could do for Illinois would be to buy the Tribune and immediately close it down.
- Larry Bowa Jr. - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:16 am:
If I was Pritzker’s admin I don’t know that I’d bother returning a call from Kass. Nobody who cares about what Kass says is ever going to vote for a democrat, nor is he capable of discussing anything in good faith, so you’re basically participating in trolling yourself.
- Grandson of Man - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:16 am:
“If Springfield is freed from the constitutional constraints of a flat tax rate, soon enough middle-class earners also will get hit with a rate increase.”
The graduated income tax’ literal purpose is to avoid raising taxes on the middle class. It’s about time that the Trib editorial board and those whose interests they push stop riding on the backs of the middle class and pay their fair share of state income tax. And they say they hate socialism? They’ve been getting a government handout for decades, thanks to the flat tax.
- Titan - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:17 am:
With all due respect, the “fair tax” would make it much easier politically to raise the tax rate on those beyond the top 3% (and somewhere short of the 50% level). It is not as hard to get moer than half of the people to support an increase on the remaining less than half.
It isn’t hard to conceive of hearing a push based upon the top 3% not being enough, and that the rate needs to be raised on the those in the 3% to 10% (or 20% or 25%) range.
- walker - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:17 am:
There’s never been any logic behind the IPI or Illinois Chamber argument that a graduated structure would make it more likely that middle-income folks would get an income tax increase. The opposite is true.
But to quote the Captain: “voters don’t get nuance”
- Rich Miller - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:17 am:
===be raised on the those in the 3% to 10%===
Those ain’t middle income folks.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:19 am:
===buy the Tribune and immediately close it down===
Nah. There are some very good reporters and editors at the Tribune. But as MrJM notes above, a handful of folks are determined to stain everyone else’s reputations.
- Skeptic - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:22 am:
Ah, remember when the talk was impeachment was only so that the Legislature could pass a tax hike? Good times, eh?
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:27 am:
To. The. Post.,
The premise to save Illinois’ wealthy by having editorials and phonies who are already in the 3% bracket say “you’re next so protect us” is frankly too comical.
These nay sayers neglect institutional knowledge of the history of the income tax being raised, ignore the idea of trying to find majorities in the chambers and a governor willing to sign it in the next FIVE years (as I see it politically), and rebuff the actual truth that if it doesn’t pass, everyone will see an income tax increase, and that includes the 97% that won’t if the fair tax does pass.
Keep in mind;
When Todd Maisch, and all his political acumen, thought calling it the “millionaire tax” was helping to defeat it, the sheer lack of political acumen misses why that is such an ignorant way to politics; who wants to save millionaires?
The rest? Easy. The rest are the cowardly towards alienating wealthy folks or wealthy folks pretending “hey, we’re just like you”. Illinois’ 97% won’t see an increase. Pretending the 3% are “looking out” for the 97% by asking to be saved is disingenuous. The Raunerites had a play to make a deal. They chose the “millionaires”. So did the Trib Edit Board.
- Anon E Moose - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:27 am:
Kass doesn’t make any sense (as usual).
- Dancing Bears - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:28 am:
“And the rich man in his summer home
Singing just leave well enough alone”
- illinifan - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:28 am:
The Tribune has one answer to the states budget woes and that is cut the pensions. They keep overlooking that Tier 2 happened. They are so focused on this one issue there is no room to see any other option. Also the editorial board reflects the desires of the owner and thus the persons who would be taxed more.
- DuPage Saint - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:39 am:
The Trib has not paid rent on their new offices in the Prudential building since March and now they are trying to break lease
I am heartened by their consistency. They practice what they preach. I contract can be broken at will.
- natty lite - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:41 am:
~$3.6 billion from the Fair Tax does not come close to covering the structural deficit. Given how much opposition there is, I don’t understand why they went for a half measure and capped the top rate at $1 million and 7.95% … I wish they would have put forth a real millionaire/billionaire tax (rather than treating the $250,000 person virtually the same as the Pritzkers, Rauners, etc.). So they will still have a structural deficit and will definitely need more money … will it come from the billionaires next time?
- Lucky Pierre - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:46 am:
What will happen to the middle class workers when their small business employers taxes go up 50%?
- Rich Miller - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:48 am:
===small business employers taxes go up 50%===
Vast majority of small businesses don’t pay the full biz rate. We pay PPRT.
- Donnie Elgin - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:48 am:
Kass was also calling out the impact of the progressive tax on the black business community. Also how JB’s invite to an event was rescinded once Ivory expressed opposition.
“Ivory, president of the Illinois State Black Chamber of Commerce, … Ivory said, citing a study funded by the Illinois Chamber of Commerce, would disproportionately hurt women and minorities.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:52 am:
===the middle class workers===
“Defeat the fair tax because the middle class workers need to help the millionaires”?
You workshop it, k, get back to everyone.
- 17% Solution - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:55 am:
From Kass: “ Hey, I’m just having a drink here on the back porch. But he should reconsider. What’s so fun about being governor of a broken state anyway?”
Maybe he needs to stop drinking, or he needs to stop writing and drink more.
Broken state? Illinois is 23rd largest economy in the world.
- Socially DIstant Watcher - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 10:55 am:
@Lester’s ’stache: Why should JB spend money on that, when the Trib’s current owners are doing it as fast as they can already?
- Ducky LaMoore - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 11:03 am:
“I asked Pritzker’s press secretary, Jordan Abudayyeh, if the governor would appoint himself to the Senate.”
Did I miss some big news or something?
- Dotnonymous - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 11:03 am:
One bad Kass can spoil the bunch.
- Skeptic - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 11:17 am:
“What will happen to the middle class workers when their small business employers taxes go up 50%?” Their employers will do what large businesses do, pass the cost on the customer.
- Don'tKidYourself - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 11:20 am:
If the graduated tax passes, the argument will be we’re only raising your (lower-income rate) a little but we’re raising the “rich people’s” rate a lot… so, yes, everyone’s tax rates will still go up.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 11:22 am:
=== If the graduated tax passes, the argument will be we’re only raising your (lower-income rate) a little but we’re raising the “rich people’s” rate a lot… so, yes, everyone’s tax rates will still go up.===
And where will this be happening, Madeupville?
Gotta find majorities in the chambers and a governor to sign… yet you skipped that part. Why?
- Grandson of Man - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 11:26 am:
Corporations got a 40% tax cut and individual tax rates were cut under Trump, so let’s un-clutch the pearls and stop crying the crocodile tears about “small businesses.” The Trump tax cuts have done nothing to boost the economy, with the phony “pro-growth” talking point, even before the pandemic.
- City Zen - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 11:38 am:
==But it won’t be nearly as easy to do that as raising taxes again on the top 3 percent.==
Only 11% of all tax filers fall in the $100,000 - 250,000 bracket. Just as easy to raise their rates as well. Or create a $75-$100K tax bracket with a higher rate and raise all rates above that bracket. That would impact only 30% of all tax filers.
So, yes, middle class earners are quite vulnerable.
- Socially DIstant Watcher - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 11:40 am:
@Grandson: But deductions were capped, so my federal taxes, and the federal taxes of many others in Illinois, went up. I’m paying more under Trump than I was under Obama.
This is a federal topic and Rich doesn’t like that chatter on this blog, fair enough. But the federal interplay with state taxes hasn’t been that simple.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 11:47 am:
=== Just as easy to raise their rates as well. Or create a $75-$100K tax bracket with a higher rate and raise all rates above that bracket. That would impact only 30% of all tax filers.
So, yes, middle class earners are quite vulnerable.===
Narrator: They’re not. There’s no majorities or governor looking to do that.
- City Zen - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 12:06 pm:
==There’s no majorities or governor looking to do that==
Sure there is. If they’ve willing to raise the flat tax rate on everyone, they’re equally willing to raise the rates on less than half of all taxpayers.
If the flat tax is “surely going to be increased on everyone”, then it is just as easy to raise the rates on 30% of all taxpayers. Even easier to raise on the top 14% (anyone making over $100K).
- Some Other Time - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 12:08 pm:
== Gotta find majorities in the chambers and a governor to sign… yet you skipped that part. Why?==
Foregone conclusion. And I’m sure they will all be extremely regretful and apologetic that a “temporary” tax increase will need to be shared by all of our citizens.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 12:09 pm:
=== Sure there is.===
What’s the bill number? Sponsors? What committee is doing hearings?
Has the governor talked about this bill?
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 12:09 pm:
=== Foregone conclusion.===
Narrator: They had no facts.
- SSL - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 12:12 pm:
natty lite makes excellent points above. This is hardly a progressive tax. Essentially two tiers, below $250,000 and above $250,000. JB didn’t go after the Pritzkers in his proposal to the extent necessary to fix the state. Not even close.
- Pundent - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 12:40 pm:
There are multiple tiers particularly on income over $250K. But don’t let facts spoil a good rant.
- Monadnock Pigeon - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 12:54 pm:
“===small business employers taxes go up 50%===
Vast majority of small businesses don’t pay the full biz rate. We pay PPRT.”
Can confirm.
- City Zen - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 12:57 pm:
==What’s the bill number? Sponsors?==
Same bill number and sponsors as the flat tax hike legislation.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 1:04 pm:
=== Same bill number and sponsors as the flat tax hike legislation.===
(Sigh)
… which won’t be needed if the fair tax passes.
Not the same, but good try to seem like you still have no idea about this idea that the rates are changing.
No matter how many times you look under the bed, there’s no boogeyman, even as you want one.
You want to protect the 3%. Just say so and save the typing.
- Froganon - Friday, Aug 21, 20 @ 2:30 pm:
Approve the Fair TAx and grow Illinois’ economy, just like Minnesota did. https://www.epi.org/publication/as-wisconsins-and-minnesotas-lawmakers-took-divergent-paths-so-did-their-economies-since-2010-minnesotas-economy-has-performed-far-better-for-working-families-than-wisconsin/