Probably intentional to boost Madigan by framing this race as only “Madigan vs. Kifowit”. If this was serious, they wouldn’t be holding a candidate’s forum when they know that serious candidates won’t come forward until he’s officially out.
=== Seems a bit early, given Madigan has yet to bow out yet. ===
It’s easy for people to say that they aren’t voting for someone. Its another thing for a person to step up to the plate and throw their name into the mix. Let’s see who has the intestinal fortitude to put their name forward.
=== If this was serious, they wouldn’t be holding a candidate’s forum when they know that serious candidates won’t come forward until he’s officially out. ===
So people are waiting around to see if he’s going to leave? There’s no way he steps aside. Someone will have to challenge him and beat him. If people think otherwise, they are naïve. It also shows cowardice for those that want to run but are afraid to until “he steps aside”.
- Was anyone else waiting? - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:02 pm:
Looks like the Dem caucus members will finally listen to Minority leaders. We have been watching white suburban members for the most part trickling out. Makes you wonder how strategic members are being without considering the needs of the Black or Latino Caucus. Also proves that it is unlikely that any of the dissenters could be in a position to represent the diverse needs of the caucus.
That just speaks to the cowardice of Madigan’s opponents. They have no vision and nothing to say other than “No Madigan.” Maybe they should join the GOP?
Check this out:(25 ILCS 10/2) (from Ch. 63, par. 23.2)
Sec. 2. The Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate, and the Chairman and members of the Senate Committee on Committees shall be considered as holding continuing offices until their respective successors are elected and qualified.
In the event of death or resignation of the Speaker of the House or of the President of the Senate after the sine die adjournment of the session of the General Assembly at which he was elected, the powers held by him shall pass respectively to the Majority Leader of the House of Representatives or to the Majority Leader of the Senate who, for the purposes of such powers shall be considered as holding continuing offices until his respective successors are elected and qualified.
(Source: P.A. 98-692, eff. 7-1-14.)
- Joe Bidenopolous - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:04 pm:
Trying to smoke out candidates? Agree it seems early, but eventually someone will have to drop their name. I’d think that person wouldn’t want to do so in this venue though. They will want to contact members privately to see if they can get support in greater numbers than 19.
There are 19 (and more) already not committed to Madigan.
The Black Caucus (as a whole, like the 19) has yet to commit as a group to any take on Madigan
There has yet to show a group publicly committed to Madigan, meaning a “caucus” and such saying they are supporting Madigan.
The 19 have yet to coalesce as ONE, meaning 19 independents united, but not in unity with one purpose, in this case, a candidate, “step 37” if you will when “step 3” taking Madigan out has not been fully realized.
My thought to it?
Why not.
Had the 19 decided to lead on this as a collective, the “New Day” Caucus could’ve done this very same kind of maneuver and forced Madigan out of the race.
This forum allows Madigan a mere feeling he’s viable, even if, and it’s not changed at my typing, he’s lacking 60 votes *because* of the 19 already committed, albeit individually, against his next term.
So, we get the Black Caucus making a move, a “call” in poker, and who is going to ignore this forum then magically decide to challenge with this snub of a call for candidates?
How the 73, as a whole, factions, “caucuses”, even individuals united for the early steps, this will be one interesting thing.
one group holding something like this is interesting, two is coincidence, three would probably represent a real threat. curious to see if a challenger comes out of this particular meeting but way more interested to see if others follow suit.
“The progressive 19 can’t tweet their way out of this one.”
Seeing as flipping their positions and backing Madigan again would likely end their political careers in their district, I don’t think this is backing them into any particular corner.
Short of Rep. West, what I have read from the ILBCH is that they are in Speaker Madigan’s corner. I haven’t put on my tin foil hat yet this afternoon but it wouldn’t surprise me if Madigan had a hand in this candidate forum. At least he thinks it will help him. The ILBCH is saying “here’s our candidate” what do you anti-Madigan folks have? Does Rep. Kifowit show up? Heck does Leader Durkin show-up? He is a candidate for Speaker. Anyway, this is certainly interesting.
I am in the corner that believed Mike Madigan should have resigned his speakership and retired from political office before the last election. However, filling his shoes will not be easy. Being Speaker of the Illinois House requires a number of skills and use of relationships that go well beyond being “our friend”. I truly hope the people who choose the next speaker will take their job seriously and view it as one with critical and long term public responsibilities and ramifications– not just look at it as a power trip.
Nagidam - If Leader Durkin shows up, Madigan gets to frame this as a “either elect me, or a Republican” argument. As you see in the comments above, many Madigan fans are pushing that kind of language.
Premature and not serious. They’re trying to smoke out candidates.
- Three Dimensional Checkers - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:39 pm:
===Paging Lucius Junius Brutus.
One great opportunity to go down as a historical legend for a Madigan loyalist that would play the part of Lucius Junius Brutus.===
I think you’re thinking of Marcus Junius Brutus. Lucius Junius Brutus was the first counsel of Rome. Unless Madigan is King Tarquin. I mean, the House is just slightly more democratic than the Roman Senate, so either historical analogy might fit.
Frankly this is laughable. Until Representative Madigan acknowledges he doesn’t and will not have 60 votes, anything else is theatre.
And the more the ILBC makes it look as though they are running their playbook to benefit Madigan, the harder it will be for them to advance a contender of their own once the inevitable occurs.
Nagidam - If Leader Durkin shows up, Madigan gets to frame this as a “either elect me, or a ==Republican” argument. As you see in the comments above, many Madigan fans are pushing that kind of language.===
Except your forgot one important event prior to January 13th at high noon. The House Democratic Caucus where they will pick their leader to put up for election as speaker against Leader Durkin. Could the democrats go into Jan 13th without this settled? Certainly but that would be an absolute disaster for their caucus and quit frankly this state.
This will never be a choice between Speaker Madigan and Leader Durkin.
- Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:44 pm:
==Why is the State Seal on its side? ==
You need to ask?
Until this leadership question is resolved, it will remain skewed. Perhaps the degree of skew indicates how far the House Dems are from resolving the question.
Now we have to admit…seeing Madigan agree to and then take part in a debate would be well worth watching despite what you may or may not think of him! I’d pay to see it honestly.
It’s too bad that, unlike the U.S. House of Representatives, the Illinois Speaker needs to be a member of the House. That would make it really entertaining.
Honestly though, why not just stick with Jesse White after the first couple of ballots? I don’t believe there’s anything preventing the House from simply adapting its rules to proceed with business as usual with SoS presiding.
It might be time to begin discussing what kind of bubble Speaker Madigan and the Madigan faction* of the Democratic Caucus live in.
Lets say they succeed and Madigan remains Speaker. Everything they do from this point is tainted with Madigan’s public corruption, but then what? They’re going to organize primaries against the 19 members of their caucus that found their moral courage? Remove their staff? Remove their privileges? Tank their bills?
What about the Madigan factionists that are going to see a primary opponent exclusively because of their continued support to Mike Madigan over the people of Illinois?
What about if Mike Madigan is indicted because someone has decided they don’t want to die in prison to protect him and they’ve expended all of this effort to keep him?
What a bubble they must live in. What a dumb line to factionalize the party over
*It’s a faction now. This move makes it clear that it’s a faction.
I disagree with commenters who say this is too early. Good for them. Many members believe there will be a new speaker but nobody knows who. This is a way to demonstrate the importance of the caucus in that process and I think this is a good thing.
Disagree pot. Unless Madigan can get multiple of the 19 no’s to change their vote. Those 19 do not necessarily want the job themselves (although some probably do). Nor do they have someone in mind. They want him gone. Done. That is their message, that is their goal. and I don’t think anyone can change their minds.
- Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:02 pm:
Anon 1: You can’t beat someone (MJM) with no one. Madigan will do everything he can to prevent a viable opponent from stepping forward. While I agree that the House and the Dems would benefit from a new leader, Madigan has decades of success knocking down opposition.
=== What about the Madigan factionists that are going to see a primary opponent exclusively because of their continued support to Mike Madigan over the people of Illinois? ===
And who will fund those primary challenges? Labor? Trial Lawyers? Nobody?
If you aren’t willing to accept the Black Caucus invitation are you really who they want to be Speaker when there is so much on the line for them right now?
=== Lets say they succeed and Madigan remains Speaker. Everything they do from this point is tainted with Madigan’s public corruption, but then what? They’re going to organize primaries against the 19 members of their caucus that found their moral courage? Remove their staff? Remove their privileges? Tank their bills? ===
Great talking points, but nothing here is based in reality.
Since the elaboration might be necessary — the issue that caused the end of Tarquinius Superbus’ reign was a crime committed by someone else under his authority that he ignored. The rape of Lucretia was the act of the King’s son, Tarquin — thought this is the area that gets into possible fable/myth.
Madigan is unpopular like Tarquinius Superbus but not yet indicted for a crime, though he was clearly involved in what happened and allowed it to occur.
=== It might be time to begin discussing what kind of bubble Speaker Madigan and the Madigan faction* of the Democratic Caucus live in. ===
Let’s flip the script. The defectors say that its “premature” to have a forum for the next Speaker. Well, then that leaves several unanswered questions. Who would staff the caucus? The current Speaker’s staff? Some others with no experience? What about the Chief of Staff and other high level staffers? What about the House rules? What’s the framework for how the House will operate? What about the House political apparatus? Who will recruit new candidates? Who will lead the petition drive in the fall? Who will raise money and allocate resources?
These are all important questions that need to be discussed NOW. Not at some time closer to Inauguration when there will only be time to keep the status quo anyway. Im guessing the defectors have no answers to these questions and thats why nobody credible has come forward.
===And who will fund those primary challenges? Labor? Trial Lawyers? Nobody?===
I believe it’s referred to as fund raising and usually involves asking people to contribute to their campaigns.
It is also silly to presume that traditional sources for Democratic campaign funds are going to be as reliable when blow back for supporting Madigan begins to be felt.
@ Pot, noted. Absolutely correct you can’t beat someone with no one. But that will change in time. Someone more viable that Kifowit will come forward. Will Davis said in his statement that if Madigan does not have the votes he should coalesce behind someone who does for a smooth transition. Maybe just 19 have come forward for now. But there are scores of other members with a D behind their name that do not want Madigan in the picture when they run for reelection in 2022. Nature abhors a vacuum, so someone will emerge.
=== These are all important questions that need to be discussed NOW. Not at some time closer to Inauguration when there will only be time to keep the status quo anyway. Im guessing the defectors have no answers to these questions and thats why nobody credible has come forward.===
Meh.
If all that were true then caucus coups would never ever happen.
The diversity of the Dem caucus and Madigan refusing to see he doesn’t have 60 is at play, and even with this forum, it’s not going to flip the 19 that sailed they’d ships and burned them upon landing in the New Day.
Methodically, the 73 will eventually find someone with 60, the plays now are trying to get to a 60, including get Madigan beyond his own thoughts.
I don’t think it’s any great stretch to assume most staff would stay and work for the new Speaker. Maybe the top level- CoS, counsel, directors - and maybe in fact they all stay. Whoever the new Speaker is will be a Democrat and familiar with the entire apparatus as you mentioned.
In other words, I don’t think it’s as difficult as some presume it to be, but I may very well be wrong.
* sorry, meant to say “maybe the top level staff would leave
- Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:41 pm:
==Nature abhors a vacuum, so someone will emerge.==
Madigan abhors a challenge, and his continued presence means there is no vacuum. A challenger has to balance a big reward (Speakership) against a big cost if Madigan somehow stays in power. The best options for a new Speaker are stuck in place by Madigan…their current leadership positions will be gone if they step up to challenge and then lose. So, they wait for the vacuum to be created by Madigan stepping aside, which he does not seem willing to do. And, the state seal remains skewed…
=== I believe it’s referred to as fund raising and usually involves asking people to contribute to their campaigns. ===
Yes, I get that. But Madigan has 17mil. Who will be able to compete with that? Not to mention primaries are usually won by candidates with the most resources since nobody knows the difference between the two candidates.
Labor will, in the end, back HDem candidates. After Rauner, Durkin will need a full court press to explain to labor, “no, really, we learned”. The coalition Madigan enjoyed isn’t flipping Republican any time soon
===Not to mention primaries are usually won by candidates with the most resources since nobody knows the difference between the two candidates.===
Family fights happen. The new map might save some from dividing the caucus further, and let’s be honest, it’s not like the Raunerites are fielding candidates, 51 Dems were unopposed by the GOP in November
@ Pot, I would agree with you at any other time. But this isn’t any other time. Madigan is damaged by constant drip drip of Me Too, and ComEd. Especially ComEd. He’s not operating from the position of strength here.
===So, we get the Black Caucus making a move, a “call” in poker, and who is going to ignore this forum then magically decide to challenge with this snub of a call for candidates?====
OW while I agree with the rest of your post I wouldnt say this a “call”. A call is when you just match your opponents bet. I would say this move is a bet or maybe just the opening ante. The “call” will be when the members who want to throw their hats in the ring do not and do not bother participating with this forum.
If there is a new Speaker, JB will help the new person get a jump on fundraising. And what will Madigan do w the money besides lawyers? Fund primary challenges to those who don’t vote for him?
@ PW, the amount of money is impressive, but who among the current caucus will want to accept it? Some will, yes. But others will avoid it like the plague. It’s not the money, or the organization, or anything else he brings to the table right now. It’s about the taint that comes with accepting his help. There’s the rub.
Please don’t assume the Unions would act irrationally, no matter what happens. They will back whomever can best back their objectives.
As will the major campaign donors on both sides of the aisle.
Let’s be honest here, there are very few who will be able to run the election machine as effectively as Madigan. The party will regret this internal takedown.
=== Please don’t assume the Unions would act irrationally, no matter what happens. ===
Nobody is assuming that they will act irrationally. They may not want to get involved in an internal caucus struggle, however. I have no doubt they will back mostly Dem candidates in general election, but I am talking about primaries.
@PW, you are correct. But how do they counter claims from their opponents, both primary and general about taking support from Madigan?
- Three Dimensional Checkers - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 5:12 pm:
===Since the elaboration might be necessary…===
Interesting analogy. Is ComEd Luctrecia then? There is a joke in there but it might involve a banned word. I would say ComEd was “violated” but it seems to have been pretty willingly.
I never see State Rep. Flowers’ name mentioned as House Speaker, except here on this wonderful site. Could any expert tell me why she isn’t mentioned? Thanks.
- The Captain - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 12:49 pm:
lol, in the next 24 hours we’d like you to declare and then show up at our forum on Saturday.
If they had scheduled this for 12/21 or 12/22 it might have made more sense.
- Nick - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 12:49 pm:
Seems a bit early, given Madigan has yet to bow out yet.
Though maybe that’s what he wants.
- Just asking - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 12:51 pm:
Why is the State Seal on its side?
- HCMcB - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 12:54 pm:
Will this be available to the public online?
Speaker Madigan’s presentation would be a must-see.
- NIU Grad - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 12:55 pm:
Probably intentional to boost Madigan by framing this race as only “Madigan vs. Kifowit”. If this was serious, they wouldn’t be holding a candidate’s forum when they know that serious candidates won’t come forward until he’s officially out.
- Contrarian - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 12:55 pm:
smart move by madigan. When no one else shows up besides him…who is left?
- Moi - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 12:56 pm:
It seems a way to find out who is actually looking for that job since no one but one or two people has shown interest.
- Fav Human - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 12:57 pm:
I doubt it will be available to the public, but to be a fly on that wall!
I think it’s intended to make people throw the hat into the ring. How can you run if you don’t attend this???
Wonder if Durkin got an invite
)))))))
- Just Me 2 - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 12:57 pm:
This is what Madigan wants, because absent a real opponent he is the only option.
- Powdered Whig - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 12:58 pm:
=== Seems a bit early, given Madigan has yet to bow out yet. ===
It’s easy for people to say that they aren’t voting for someone. Its another thing for a person to step up to the plate and throw their name into the mix. Let’s see who has the intestinal fortitude to put their name forward.
- Powdered Whig - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:01 pm:
=== If this was serious, they wouldn’t be holding a candidate’s forum when they know that serious candidates won’t come forward until he’s officially out. ===
So people are waiting around to see if he’s going to leave? There’s no way he steps aside. Someone will have to challenge him and beat him. If people think otherwise, they are naïve. It also shows cowardice for those that want to run but are afraid to until “he steps aside”.
- Was anyone else waiting? - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:02 pm:
Looks like the Dem caucus members will finally listen to Minority leaders. We have been watching white suburban members for the most part trickling out. Makes you wonder how strategic members are being without considering the needs of the Black or Latino Caucus. Also proves that it is unlikely that any of the dissenters could be in a position to represent the diverse needs of the caucus.
- Precinct Captain - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:04 pm:
- NIU Grad - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 12:55 pm:
That just speaks to the cowardice of Madigan’s opponents. They have no vision and nothing to say other than “No Madigan.” Maybe they should join the GOP?
- Powdered Whig - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:04 pm:
Check this out:(25 ILCS 10/2) (from Ch. 63, par. 23.2)
Sec. 2. The Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate, and the Chairman and members of the Senate Committee on Committees shall be considered as holding continuing offices until their respective successors are elected and qualified.
In the event of death or resignation of the Speaker of the House or of the President of the Senate after the sine die adjournment of the session of the General Assembly at which he was elected, the powers held by him shall pass respectively to the Majority Leader of the House of Representatives or to the Majority Leader of the Senate who, for the purposes of such powers shall be considered as holding continuing offices until his respective successors are elected and qualified.
(Source: P.A. 98-692, eff. 7-1-14.)
- Joe Bidenopolous - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:04 pm:
Trying to smoke out candidates? Agree it seems early, but eventually someone will have to drop their name. I’d think that person wouldn’t want to do so in this venue though. They will want to contact members privately to see if they can get support in greater numbers than 19.
- Anon y mouse - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:05 pm:
Seems totally legit. /s
- N95 Mask - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:11 pm:
It looks like the most senior House member, Rep. Mary Flowers, has a good opportunity to be Speaker with the backing of the ILBC.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:13 pm:
I see it in these compartments;
There are 19 (and more) already not committed to Madigan.
The Black Caucus (as a whole, like the 19) has yet to commit as a group to any take on Madigan
There has yet to show a group publicly committed to Madigan, meaning a “caucus” and such saying they are supporting Madigan.
The 19 have yet to coalesce as ONE, meaning 19 independents united, but not in unity with one purpose, in this case, a candidate, “step 37” if you will when “step 3” taking Madigan out has not been fully realized.
My thought to it?
Why not.
Had the 19 decided to lead on this as a collective, the “New Day” Caucus could’ve done this very same kind of maneuver and forced Madigan out of the race.
This forum allows Madigan a mere feeling he’s viable, even if, and it’s not changed at my typing, he’s lacking 60 votes *because* of the 19 already committed, albeit individually, against his next term.
So, we get the Black Caucus making a move, a “call” in poker, and who is going to ignore this forum then magically decide to challenge with this snub of a call for candidates?
How the 73, as a whole, factions, “caucuses”, even individuals united for the early steps, this will be one interesting thing.
- Centennial - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:13 pm:
Well-played, BC. The progressive 19 can’t tweet their way out of this one.
- peter - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:15 pm:
one group holding something like this is interesting, two is coincidence, three would probably represent a real threat. curious to see if a challenger comes out of this particular meeting but way more interested to see if others follow suit.
- Socially DIstant Watcher - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:15 pm:
@N95: Rep. Flowers is the second most senior House member.
- Colin O'Scopy - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:16 pm:
=Maybe they should join the GOP?=
Paging Speaker Durkin….
- Candy Dogood - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:16 pm:
Someone is playing some hardball. Madigan is not Cincinnatus.
Madigan loyalists might do more damage to the Democratic Party than Madigan himself over the next few months.
- Flat Bed Ford - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:17 pm:
Guess the Black Caucus is unaware that Rep Madigan doesn’t use email.
- Amalia - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:24 pm:
Ladies, start your engines.
- NIU Grad - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:25 pm:
“The progressive 19 can’t tweet their way out of this one.”
Seeing as flipping their positions and backing Madigan again would likely end their political careers in their district, I don’t think this is backing them into any particular corner.
- Candy Dogood - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:25 pm:
Paging Lucius Junius Brutus.
One great opportunity to go down as a historical legend for a Madigan loyalist that would play the part of Lucius Junius Brutus.
- Nagidam - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:31 pm:
Short of Rep. West, what I have read from the ILBCH is that they are in Speaker Madigan’s corner. I haven’t put on my tin foil hat yet this afternoon but it wouldn’t surprise me if Madigan had a hand in this candidate forum. At least he thinks it will help him. The ILBCH is saying “here’s our candidate” what do you anti-Madigan folks have? Does Rep. Kifowit show up? Heck does Leader Durkin show-up? He is a candidate for Speaker. Anyway, this is certainly interesting.
- Responsa - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:31 pm:
I am in the corner that believed Mike Madigan should have resigned his speakership and retired from political office before the last election. However, filling his shoes will not be easy. Being Speaker of the Illinois House requires a number of skills and use of relationships that go well beyond being “our friend”. I truly hope the people who choose the next speaker will take their job seriously and view it as one with critical and long term public responsibilities and ramifications– not just look at it as a power trip.
- NIU Grad - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:33 pm:
Nagidam - If Leader Durkin shows up, Madigan gets to frame this as a “either elect me, or a Republican” argument. As you see in the comments above, many Madigan fans are pushing that kind of language.
- Centennial - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:33 pm:
NIU - I would agree with you, as long as none of them plan to be a candidate for speaker.
- Levois J - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:34 pm:
Will Jim Durkin be attending?
- Southern Skeptic - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:35 pm:
Premature and not serious. They’re trying to smoke out candidates.
- Three Dimensional Checkers - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:39 pm:
===Paging Lucius Junius Brutus.
One great opportunity to go down as a historical legend for a Madigan loyalist that would play the part of Lucius Junius Brutus.===
I think you’re thinking of Marcus Junius Brutus. Lucius Junius Brutus was the first counsel of Rome. Unless Madigan is King Tarquin. I mean, the House is just slightly more democratic than the Roman Senate, so either historical analogy might fit.
- Powdered Whig - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:41 pm:
=== Premature and not serious. ===
How is this premature? The caucus selection is usually done during veto session. Preparations need to be made.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:42 pm:
=== Madigan fans===
Who are these fans you speak?
Since I’ve said since the press conference this summer, I think Madigan should resign. That hasn’t changed.
This situation is interesting to the caucus politics, and ignoring that…
- SpiDem - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:42 pm:
Frankly this is laughable. Until Representative Madigan acknowledges he doesn’t and will not have 60 votes, anything else is theatre.
And the more the ILBC makes it look as though they are running their playbook to benefit Madigan, the harder it will be for them to advance a contender of their own once the inevitable occurs.
- Nagidam - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:42 pm:
Nagidam - If Leader Durkin shows up, Madigan gets to frame this as a “either elect me, or a ==Republican” argument. As you see in the comments above, many Madigan fans are pushing that kind of language.===
Except your forgot one important event prior to January 13th at high noon. The House Democratic Caucus where they will pick their leader to put up for election as speaker against Leader Durkin. Could the democrats go into Jan 13th without this settled? Certainly but that would be an absolute disaster for their caucus and quit frankly this state.
This will never be a choice between Speaker Madigan and Leader Durkin.
- Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:44 pm:
==Why is the State Seal on its side? ==
You need to ask?
Until this leadership question is resolved, it will remain skewed. Perhaps the degree of skew indicates how far the House Dems are from resolving the question.
- Powdered Whig - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:45 pm:
=== Frankly this is laughable. ===
This is insulting to the Black Caucus.
- SpiDem - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:45 pm:
@Just Asking –
The reason the State Seal is on its side is because that is the universal signal of a caucus in distress. Much like flying the flag upside down.
- Central IL - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:45 pm:
Now we have to admit…seeing Madigan agree to and then take part in a debate would be well worth watching despite what you may or may not think of him! I’d pay to see it honestly.
- Fox river - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:46 pm:
This is completely unfair to MJM. How is he supposed to express his interest in attending when the only form of contact is via email?
- Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:49 pm:
==Until Representative Madigan acknowledges he doesn’t and will not have 60 votes, anything else is theatre.==
Until a viable challenger shows up with a path to (or, really, commitments from) 60 members, anything else is theatre.
- WH Mess - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:49 pm:
It’s too bad that, unlike the U.S. House of Representatives, the Illinois Speaker needs to be a member of the House. That would make it really entertaining.
Honestly though, why not just stick with Jesse White after the first couple of ballots? I don’t believe there’s anything preventing the House from simply adapting its rules to proceed with business as usual with SoS presiding.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:49 pm:
No matter who decides to run for Speaker next, the Black Caucus will have their say, and no Speakership will exist without black caucus support.
- Candy Dogood - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:50 pm:
It might be time to begin discussing what kind of bubble Speaker Madigan and the Madigan faction* of the Democratic Caucus live in.
Lets say they succeed and Madigan remains Speaker. Everything they do from this point is tainted with Madigan’s public corruption, but then what? They’re going to organize primaries against the 19 members of their caucus that found their moral courage? Remove their staff? Remove their privileges? Tank their bills?
What about the Madigan factionists that are going to see a primary opponent exclusively because of their continued support to Mike Madigan over the people of Illinois?
What about if Mike Madigan is indicted because someone has decided they don’t want to die in prison to protect him and they’ve expended all of this effort to keep him?
What a bubble they must live in. What a dumb line to factionalize the party over
*It’s a faction now. This move makes it clear that it’s a faction.
- Siriusly - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:53 pm:
I disagree with commenters who say this is too early. Good for them. Many members believe there will be a new speaker but nobody knows who. This is a way to demonstrate the importance of the caucus in that process and I think this is a good thing.
- SpiDem - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:54 pm:
@Fox River —
I believe Mr. McClain handles all email communication on Madigan’s behalf
- Anon1 - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:55 pm:
Disagree pot. Unless Madigan can get multiple of the 19 no’s to change their vote. Those 19 do not necessarily want the job themselves (although some probably do). Nor do they have someone in mind. They want him gone. Done. That is their message, that is their goal. and I don’t think anyone can change their minds.
- walker - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 1:56 pm:
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar
- Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:02 pm:
Anon 1: You can’t beat someone (MJM) with no one. Madigan will do everything he can to prevent a viable opponent from stepping forward. While I agree that the House and the Dems would benefit from a new leader, Madigan has decades of success knocking down opposition.
- Powdered Whig - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:03 pm:
=== What about the Madigan factionists that are going to see a primary opponent exclusively because of their continued support to Mike Madigan over the people of Illinois? ===
And who will fund those primary challenges? Labor? Trial Lawyers? Nobody?
- Frank talks - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:04 pm:
If you aren’t willing to accept the Black Caucus invitation are you really who they want to be Speaker when there is so much on the line for them right now?
- Powdered Whig - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:06 pm:
=== Lets say they succeed and Madigan remains Speaker. Everything they do from this point is tainted with Madigan’s public corruption, but then what? They’re going to organize primaries against the 19 members of their caucus that found their moral courage? Remove their staff? Remove their privileges? Tank their bills? ===
Great talking points, but nothing here is based in reality.
- Candy Dogood - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:10 pm:
Since the elaboration might be necessary — the issue that caused the end of Tarquinius Superbus’ reign was a crime committed by someone else under his authority that he ignored. The rape of Lucretia was the act of the King’s son, Tarquin — thought this is the area that gets into possible fable/myth.
Madigan is unpopular like Tarquinius Superbus but not yet indicted for a crime, though he was clearly involved in what happened and allowed it to occur.
- low level - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:11 pm:
Absolutely stunning. An open ad basically for a new Speaker. No way we would have seen this even one year ago.
- Powdered Whig - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:14 pm:
=== It might be time to begin discussing what kind of bubble Speaker Madigan and the Madigan faction* of the Democratic Caucus live in. ===
Let’s flip the script. The defectors say that its “premature” to have a forum for the next Speaker. Well, then that leaves several unanswered questions. Who would staff the caucus? The current Speaker’s staff? Some others with no experience? What about the Chief of Staff and other high level staffers? What about the House rules? What’s the framework for how the House will operate? What about the House political apparatus? Who will recruit new candidates? Who will lead the petition drive in the fall? Who will raise money and allocate resources?
These are all important questions that need to be discussed NOW. Not at some time closer to Inauguration when there will only be time to keep the status quo anyway. Im guessing the defectors have no answers to these questions and thats why nobody credible has come forward.
- Candy Dogood - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:16 pm:
===And who will fund those primary challenges? Labor? Trial Lawyers? Nobody?===
I believe it’s referred to as fund raising and usually involves asking people to contribute to their campaigns.
It is also silly to presume that traditional sources for Democratic campaign funds are going to be as reliable when blow back for supporting Madigan begins to be felt.
- Fox River - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:18 pm:
Will Speaker Madigan show up for this?
- Anon1 - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:18 pm:
@ Pot, noted. Absolutely correct you can’t beat someone with no one. But that will change in time. Someone more viable that Kifowit will come forward. Will Davis said in his statement that if Madigan does not have the votes he should coalesce behind someone who does for a smooth transition. Maybe just 19 have come forward for now. But there are scores of other members with a D behind their name that do not want Madigan in the picture when they run for reelection in 2022. Nature abhors a vacuum, so someone will emerge.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:21 pm:
=== These are all important questions that need to be discussed NOW. Not at some time closer to Inauguration when there will only be time to keep the status quo anyway. Im guessing the defectors have no answers to these questions and thats why nobody credible has come forward.===
Meh.
If all that were true then caucus coups would never ever happen.
The diversity of the Dem caucus and Madigan refusing to see he doesn’t have 60 is at play, and even with this forum, it’s not going to flip the 19 that sailed they’d ships and burned them upon landing in the New Day.
Methodically, the 73 will eventually find someone with 60, the plays now are trying to get to a 60, including get Madigan beyond his own thoughts.
- low level - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:23 pm:
Answers to some of the questions PW asked:
I don’t think it’s any great stretch to assume most staff would stay and work for the new Speaker. Maybe the top level- CoS, counsel, directors - and maybe in fact they all stay. Whoever the new Speaker is will be a Democrat and familiar with the entire apparatus as you mentioned.
In other words, I don’t think it’s as difficult as some presume it to be, but I may very well be wrong.
- low level - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:28 pm:
* sorry, meant to say “maybe the top level staff would leave
- Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:41 pm:
==Nature abhors a vacuum, so someone will emerge.==
Madigan abhors a challenge, and his continued presence means there is no vacuum. A challenger has to balance a big reward (Speakership) against a big cost if Madigan somehow stays in power. The best options for a new Speaker are stuck in place by Madigan…their current leadership positions will be gone if they step up to challenge and then lose. So, they wait for the vacuum to be created by Madigan stepping aside, which he does not seem willing to do. And, the state seal remains skewed…
- Powdered Whig - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 2:56 pm:
=== I believe it’s referred to as fund raising and usually involves asking people to contribute to their campaigns. ===
Yes, I get that. But Madigan has 17mil. Who will be able to compete with that? Not to mention primaries are usually won by candidates with the most resources since nobody knows the difference between the two candidates.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 3:01 pm:
=== But Madigan has 17mil.===
How much of that is going to go towards lawyers?
=== Who will be able to compete with that?===
Labor will, in the end, back HDem candidates. After Rauner, Durkin will need a full court press to explain to labor, “no, really, we learned”. The coalition Madigan enjoyed isn’t flipping Republican any time soon
===Not to mention primaries are usually won by candidates with the most resources since nobody knows the difference between the two candidates.===
Family fights happen. The new map might save some from dividing the caucus further, and let’s be honest, it’s not like the Raunerites are fielding candidates, 51 Dems were unopposed by the GOP in November
- Powdered Whig - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 3:05 pm:
=== How much of that is going to go towards lawyers?===
Not 17 mil. He will still have more money after lawyers than most have ever raised on their own.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 3:07 pm:
=== He will still have more money after lawyers than most have ever raised on their own.===
lol, right now he can have $170 million, and still lack 60 votes.
Lawyers are expensive, look at what he’s spent without being indicted.
- Anon1 - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 3:18 pm:
@ Pot, I would agree with you at any other time. But this isn’t any other time. Madigan is damaged by constant drip drip of Me Too, and ComEd. Especially ComEd. He’s not operating from the position of strength here.
- Been There - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 3:21 pm:
===So, we get the Black Caucus making a move, a “call” in poker, and who is going to ignore this forum then magically decide to challenge with this snub of a call for candidates?====
OW while I agree with the rest of your post I wouldnt say this a “call”. A call is when you just match your opponents bet. I would say this move is a bet or maybe just the opening ante. The “call” will be when the members who want to throw their hats in the ring do not and do not bother participating with this forum.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 3:23 pm:
=== A call is when you just match your opponents bet===
*My* take is the bet that the 19 will hold pat, denying Madigan 60.
The call here is… ok… we want to see the “next”
Nothing more.
All good, good stuff too.
- low level - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 3:24 pm:
==Madigan has $17MM== And not 60 votes.
If there is a new Speaker, JB will help the new person get a jump on fundraising. And what will Madigan do w the money besides lawyers? Fund primary challenges to those who don’t vote for him?
- Powdered Whig - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 3:27 pm:
=== lol, right now he can have $170 million, and still lack 60 votes.
Lawyers are expensive, look at what he’s spent without being indicted. ===
That doesn’t have anything to do with my point, but I am guessing you do not dispute the truth of what I stated.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 3:28 pm:
=== That doesn’t have anything to do with my point===
Your point is the money matters as who could raise it.
Welp, with $17 mil that’s not enough cash to sway 19 and counting.
It’s about the votes at this point.
- low level - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 3:33 pm:
Powdered Whig- I’m sorry, but I’m not following your point.
With much respect, can you elaborate or break it down a bit more? Many thanks.
- Anon1 - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 3:40 pm:
@ PW, the amount of money is impressive, but who among the current caucus will want to accept it? Some will, yes. But others will avoid it like the plague. It’s not the money, or the organization, or anything else he brings to the table right now. It’s about the taint that comes with accepting his help. There’s the rub.
- Powdered Whig - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 3:58 pm:
=== @ PW, the amount of money is impressive, but who among the current caucus will want to accept it? ===
Knowing Springfield like I do, I am guessing there will be plenty of takers of that campaign dough.
- walker - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 4:11 pm:
Please don’t assume the Unions would act irrationally, no matter what happens. They will back whomever can best back their objectives.
As will the major campaign donors on both sides of the aisle.
- anonymous - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 4:25 pm:
Let’s be honest here, there are very few who will be able to run the election machine as effectively as Madigan. The party will regret this internal takedown.
- Powdered Whig - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 4:28 pm:
=== Please don’t assume the Unions would act irrationally, no matter what happens. ===
Nobody is assuming that they will act irrationally. They may not want to get involved in an internal caucus struggle, however. I have no doubt they will back mostly Dem candidates in general election, but I am talking about primaries.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 4:32 pm:
=== but I am talking about primaries.===
A slate of these folks or “ones and twos”
Plus, with a new map, lots of primaries are going to happen, that’s part of the process.
- Anon1 - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 5:08 pm:
@PW, you are correct. But how do they counter claims from their opponents, both primary and general about taking support from Madigan?
- Three Dimensional Checkers - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 5:12 pm:
===Since the elaboration might be necessary…===
Interesting analogy. Is ComEd Luctrecia then? There is a joke in there but it might involve a banned word. I would say ComEd was “violated” but it seems to have been pretty willingly.
- low level - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 7:11 pm:
“I’m talking about primaries”.
Hmmm… running against Madigan or with him? “Rep So and So took X amount of money from Mike Madigan”.
Who wins that argument?
- David Chicago - Thursday, Dec 3, 20 @ 7:58 pm:
I never see State Rep. Flowers’ name mentioned as House Speaker, except here on this wonderful site. Could any expert tell me why she isn’t mentioned? Thanks.