36 Comments - Not a Billionaire - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:03 pm: A year or a semester of Each? - DuPage - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:05 pm: I was surprised at the foreign language requirement. Most universities don’t require it, and there are often ways to get in without it. Typically starting second semester, going elsewhere first semester and then transferring in, and other ways. - wondering wendy - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:06 pm: Two years of a foreign language. - Ok - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:06 pm: Best time to learn a foreign language is in elementary school. Best time to forget a foreign language is in junior high. - Jibba - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:11 pm: The best time to learn foreign language is early, but that is not a reasonable criticism of having a foreign language requirement. - Just a Citizen - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:12 pm: Certainly foreign language should be started in primary school not high school. And the requirement for high school graduation will not only be burdensome for school districts, but also for a lot of students. There are a lot of questions as well. For example, will students who speak English as a second language be waived from the requirement? Perhaps given the recent events, civics would be a better, more practical requirement. - Maximus - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:13 pm: As long as there is a funding mechanism for this set of new requirements Im sure the schools will be happy to implement these changes and receive the additional money allocated. - Not John Dewey - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:21 pm: There’s nothing wrong with raising education standards. So, anyone in Illinois wanting to do that should be praised. The only criticism is the foreign language. Economist Bryan Caplan , in his recent book, has shown that 98% of all workers don’t need to know any language other than English on their job. So, the language requirement is a waste of time for most people. - Still Waiting - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:22 pm: Will someone tell me where all these foreign language and computer science teachers are supposed to come from? We can’t find them now when they are elective classes. Simply making the classes required for graduation in no way produces more teachers. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:22 pm: ===on their job=== School should be about way more than just training people to work. - notsosure - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:26 pm: I do not understand Americans’ insistence that we should not educate our children. Yes, it’s generally accepted that learning foreign language is more effective when done as young as possible, but that doesn’t mean there’s no value in doing it in high school. Even if these kids never use what they learn in these additional academic courses, the exercise of learning is always a good thing. And perhaps even if they don’t remember how to say “friend” in Spanish, they might feel a little friendlier towards those who speak it as their native tongue. Also, civics is already required. - Educator - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:29 pm: Every time a new graduation requirement is implemented, it makes it less likely that students have room in their schedules to enroll in electives like career and technical education courses. I’m hopeful that the extended time frame for implementation will allow for a conversation to take place about the impact on students. An actual justification for this was to more closely align IL HS graduation requirements with the University of Illinois entrance requirements. That is simply out of touch with the reality of our workforce needs. If this is implemented, high school dropout rates will increase, as students have less freedom to choose courses they are truly interested in. World language is a valuable part of education, but requiring it has unintended consequences. - The Failing New York Times - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:33 pm: Perhaps it’s because folks seem to have forgotten we’re facing a teacher shortage? - Precinct Captain - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:44 pm: - DuPage - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:05 pm: Illinois requires it. Illinois State does. NIU does. - iThink - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:46 pm: “I do not understand Americans’ insistence that we should not educate our children.” The absence of requirements is NOT an absence of education, it’s an expansion of choice - at least in the district that I teach. Most HS kids go through a full 7/8 period school day. By requiring more electives of one type, you will lessen others. I have several kids that have to make the decision to not take AP science coursework they want to take so that they can take our requirements like speech. I am not going to judge the “right” choice here, but it isn’t a simple as not educating kids or not. It’s valuing one type of course over another. I applaud the inclusion of a CS course, it’s about time. I just wish the state would remove/waive some of the requirements so kids can take classes that interest them. For example, kids is sports should be waived from PE so that they can take academic courses of their choice. I would have to believe the lab science requirement is already met by a vast majority of schools out there with any type of science curriculum; and shouldn’t be to problematic. Most HSs offer some type of world languages, and most kids take 2 years, but these teachers are hard to find - this one might be tough. CS classes aren’t nearly as prolific as languages and science, I am not sure about the license required, but this one is a tough ask - but, the one that I think the most kids would benefit from. - Essential State Employee - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:47 pm: ==I was surprised at the foreign language requirement. Most universities don’t require it, and there are often ways to get in without it. == I remember hearing from my school’s guidance counselor during the last part of my Freshman year of HS (the year I didn’t take a foreign language) that U of I was planning to require 3 years of foreign language to even be considered for admission. This was in the early 90s. Therefore, I made sure I started taking Spanish classes for Sophomore year and the rest of high school. (At the time, Spanish was the only foreign language offered at my rural high school). - Jibba - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:50 pm: There are only 5.5 credits of “electives” available in high school, which are used for foreign language, music, art, plus any other academic courses beyond the requirements. Additional requirements may make some impossible for students. Perhaps we need some flexibility regarding the required 3.5 credits of PE, which are another well-intentioned idea that eats into instruction time. - Not a Billionaire - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:50 pm: I would switch it to a year. For Spanish you could do a more written or speaking focus the others ….there is a big teacher shortage I bet. I remember Galia eat divisa in tres Partes And Veni Vidi Vichy I think mine took out history at the same time. - Amalia - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 1:01 pm: as someone who first started a foreign language in junior high, and took a related language in college, get over it high school administrators. you can teach Spanish not just in school but by using radio, television, and soccer to encourage. that’s how most people learn English. - Ed Equity - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 1:04 pm: Stick to the high bar, but allow students choice. If their per pupil expenditure could follow them to schools that offer those options, a) there is already an ample supply of schools that provide these courses, and b) new markets would form. Apologies for bringing logic and markets into this thread Rich. - Mr. Hand - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 1:06 pm: Idealistically, I agree with the concept of two years of foreign language. We want to challenge our students. Realistically, a requirement has the potential to create many unintended consequences. This is not to mention that only 37% of students are proficient in English and Language Arts (according to Illinois State Report Card). There was a purpose for everything that was passed in this bill. Implementation will be tricky. One area that could have been addressed in more detail is remote learning. Heaven forbid, what if something occurs where schools would have to revert back to remote learning in the future? What has been done to be able to educate more effectively in the online format? I feel this should be a priority. As we noticed around the state and country, we were woefully unprepared. Maybe that will be in the next bill. - OneMan - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 1:09 pm: Foreign language requirement: Pre-COVID one of the most consistent things that came up on the Facebook group (stay with me) for parents at the HS my kids went to was the variation in the quality of the Spanish language teaching at the school. Every fall, without fail parents with issues about a specific Spanish teacher, start asking questions about the teacher, how to get their kid a different teacher, etc. Will there be enough quality teachers to make it happen. I can’t speak for teachers (nor pretend to), but do people get into teaching a language (which implies you are a native speaker or really like the language) so you can teach Esperanto I over and over again for a school day? I don’t think so, but I may be wrong on that. Computer Science: Ok I have a BS degree in this from the Harvard of DeKalb so… Saying people should learn to code is the ‘plastics’ of the 21st century. Without understanding what the curriculum would look like this is a hard one to judge. This is going to be the key to making this work (with the teachers you are going to have to teach this), a good curriculum you have a shot, without it, there is a very real risk of it boring everyone to tears. - NorthsideNoMore - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 1:10 pm: Stunned they would pass education requirements without checking with educators that actually teach these classes or how districts would implement them (snark) Are they providing additional funding for education or just more mandates? - Cubs in '16 - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 1:18 pm: ===School should be about way more than just training people to work.=== Agreed but courses like foreign language shouldn’t be required to graduate. Make them available for the kids on that path. For the kid who wants to go to work in a factory or skilled trade after high school, this is just one more reason to hate school and consider dropping out. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 2:12 pm: ===Stunned they would pass education requirements without checking with educators=== You assume wrong. - JS Mill - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 2:48 pm: =As long as there is a funding mechanism for this set of new requirements Im sure the schools will be happy to implement these changes and receive the additional money allocated.= Clearly you do not know much about the discussions going on in schools. @Precinct Captain- foreign language isn’t required by the schools you cited. You can meet entrance requirements in multiple ways including using arts credits instead of foreign language. The issue for schools are thus: 1- There is absolutely nothing wrong with encouraging students to take a more rigorous path to graduation, we should always do that. But that can manifest itself in many different ways, not just with the traditional college prep pathway which I followed and ended up as a school administrator. We have learned to focus on providing opportunities for students to follow the path that supports their interests best. Not all will follow the college prep path. 2- Forcing kids on a path is potentially harmful. Blago did this in the early 2000’s. Adding more requirements puts kids in a position where they will not have a chance to experience vocational or technical course work in high school due to all of the requirements. Voc/Tech are very rewarding paths and I don’t mean just in terms of money. Finally- staffing will be impossible. rural areas will not be able to find teachers, period. We will be forced to purchase online packages which are not nearly as good as in person. And the state won’t help us financially. Forcing more requirements and fewer options ofr high school students, especially when there are no pathway supports or requirements in the early grades is just bad legislation. Had they consulted anyone other than foriegn language teachers they would have heard a chorus of “no”. - eyeball - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 3:08 pm: Prior to the change, these were the related requirements: (3) Three years of mathematics, one of which must be Algebra I, one of which must include geometry content, and one of which may be an Advanced Placement computer science course. A mathematics course that includes geometry content may be offered as an integrated, applied, interdisciplinary, or career and technical education course that prepares a student for a career readiness path. (6) One year chosen from (A) music, (B) art, (C) foreign language, which shall be deemed to include American Sign Language, or (D) vocational education. 105 ILCS 5/27-22 - Dan Vock - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 3:12 pm: I learned German in high school, French in college and Spanish in my early 30s. Now my kid is learning Spanish in kindergarten. When’s the best time to learn a foreign language? Now. - SuburbanWoman - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 4:12 pm: Not defending this bill or even these specific provisions, but I do know that the drafters gathered information from all the public universities regarding their admission requirements and the intention was to remove the barrier that some kids (often lower-income areas in schools with less resources) face in that they did well in all the “college prep” classes their school offered and it STILL wasn’t enough to get them into a public university because their school didn’t offer a true college prep curriculum - or maybe they are able to get in but then need lots of remedial classes or core classes ($$$) that most affluent kids never have to even take in college because they simply took the 2-4 years of foreign language in HS (for free). So, while I get some of the consternation, it is not fair to say they didn’t do any research or talk with educators when drafting this. - lowdrag - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 4:34 pm: It should stay as an elective. No one should have to learn a second language if they don’t want to. - Steve Polite - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 4:42 pm: To JS Mill’s point, there is only one class I didn’t skip in high school; my vocational class because I enjoyed learning the content. - thechampaignlife - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 4:44 pm: With a rising high schooler myself, I am deep into the weeds about required courses to complete high school. As others have already said, my biggest takeaway is that too much of the student’s schedule is tied up with mandatory classes. Beyond the suggestions already mentioned such as reducing the number of required classes, the required credits, or adding extra periods onto the day, I think the best solution is to integrate more classes so that they count for multiple requirements. Computer science can already count for math, and health can count for a PE unit. Every effort should be made to allow for interdisciplinary, “double-dipping” credit. Maybe woodshop counts as an alternative to PE, given the physical nature of it. Maybe the school newspaper/journalism class can meet an English requirement, etc. If they are learning a core skill without realizing it while taking a class that actually keeps them engaged, that is a solid win for any educator, parent, or student. - DuPage - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 5:11 pm: @- Precinct Captain - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:44 pm: ===- DuPage - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 12:05 pm: Illinois requires it. Illinois State does. NIU does.=== ISU did not require it when I went there (long ago). - PublicServant - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 5:28 pm: Way back when while I was in college, they required 2.5 years of high school language to avoid having to take a language as a gen ed requirement for most programs. Forty years ago, with computing just ramping up, I asked whether computer programming languages could be used to fulfill the “language” requirement. Business college admin had no clue what a programming language was, but since it had “language” in the course title, they approved the courses. Thus, my IT career was born, and I checked off the language gen ed. God bless ignorance. - Zoomer - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 7:50 pm: So there’s a key provision in this Bill that I’ve seen near-zero reference: the requirement for Computer Science to be offered in every high school starting with AY23. Illinois is woefully behind every neighboring state in offering Computer Science, largely because of antiquated graduation requirements in mathematics. Not all kids need Algebra II anymore, let alone Calculus. The only reason it stays this way is because many colleges and universities continue to use Calculus as a weed-out course, and because academia continues to rule the roost in what is deemed “college readiness” for students. Currently, UIUC does not even recognize AP Computer Science as a “mathematics” course, and that is silly by any standard. Meanwhile, a boatload of data continues to point toward computing being the number 1 source of new wages in the United States. 16000+ open, unfilled jobs in computing in IL as of Jan 1st. I wish more discussion would occur here with regard to CS Ed. Say what you will about the other elements of the bill; the requirement that every high school offers CS is a step in the right direction for our kids, and, frankly, for our state economy. - Simply anon - Thursday, Jan 21, 21 @ 10:31 pm: The real problem is mandatory scheduling crowding out electives. The obvious fix is to remove the 3.5 years of PE/health. Swap in 1 year of a foreign language, 1 semester of CS, and free up students to take what they want. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.