Question of the day
Wednesday, Mar 10, 2021 - Posted by Rich Miller
* HB724…
Conservators of the peace. After receiving a certificate attesting to the successful completion of a training course administered by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board as required under Section 10.5 of the Illinois Police Training Act, all members of the General Assembly shall be conservators of the peace.
Those persons shall have power (i) to arrest or cause to be arrested, with or without process, all persons who break the peace or are found violating any municipal ordinance or any criminal law of the State, (ii) to commit arrested persons for examination, (iii) if necessary, to detain arrested persons in custody over night or Sunday in any safe place or until they can be brought before the proper court, and (iv) to exercise all other powers as conservators of the peace prescribed by State and corporate authorities.
* Illinois Policy Institute…
State Rep. Dan Caulkins, R-Decatur, has raised concerns about the proposed bill.
“Who’s going to carry the liability insurance? Who’s going to wear body cameras and when is that going to be required?” Caulkins said to WAND-TV. “Do you want political people with the power to arrest someone that they may not agree with politically? I mean, I think there’s a lot to be thought about.” […]
[Chicago] Alderman have been considered “conservators of the peace” under Illinois law since 1872, granting them the power to make arrests and carry a concealed handgun in the case they or someone else is under immediate threat of bodily harm. They also have badges. […]
The bill was assigned to the House Executive Committee on March 2.
* The Question: Should state legislators be given these police powers? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please…
polls
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 12:55 pm:
Question;
If the Q/Trumpkin folks are worried about a deep state, why give police powers to those “in government”… that might be part of that deep state?
I’ll hang up and listen for my answer.
- gfalkes - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 12:55 pm:
ONLY If i can sue them…..
- Bruce( no not him) - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 12:55 pm:
All I can think of is Goober Pyle yelling “Citizen’s arrest, Citizen’s arrest” at Barney.
- Anyone Remember - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 12:56 pm:
No. They’re part of the legislative branch, not the executive branch. And since legislators approve ILETSB’s budget, what happens to ILETSB’s budget if legislators fail training? Conflict of interest, eh?
- SpiDem - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 12:56 pm:
I’m old enough to remember when GOP Sen. Walter Dudycz successfully pushed legislation to to restrict law enforcement agencies from allowing non-sworn employees of various police departments from carrying badges, because it resulted in political hacks carrying badges they did not earn, and largely used to get their way out of being held accountable for various bad acts.
This is a very bad idea. It would only invite political abuse.
- The Ford Lawyer - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 12:57 pm:
Caulkins raises some valid questions. I don’t like the whole idea of mixing legislative powers and law enforcement powers. I voted no.
- TheInvisibleMan - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 12:57 pm:
Not only Chicago alderman.
Every single county coroner in the state is also a conservator of the peace, with arrest powers. They also have some other specific powers that I’m frankly amazed that some of the southern IL counties haven’t been taking advantage of. In fact the county coroner is the only one who can arrest the county sheriff if I remember correctly.
Coroner is an elected political position too.
That said, I answered No. We have police already, we don’t need more.
- Socially DIstant watcher - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 12:58 pm:
@Anyone: many legislators are licensed professionals now. That’s the goal of a part-time legislature.
Paranoid much?
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 12:58 pm:
Can someone add an amendment that if passed to carry a badge and a firearm the legislator agrees to a body camera?
Maybe Cabello was on to something.
- Norseman - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 12:59 pm:
I could get a little snarky about the quality of our legislators and their decision making capacity, but the simple answer is that they are elected to vote on policies not to implement laws. Call it separation of powers. Law enforcement is an executive function, not a legislative one.
- DuPage Saint - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:00 pm:
A really really bad idea. However if they had to wear body cameras at all times and body cameras were subject to FOIA might be a great idea.
- Montrose - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:00 pm:
A) Oh no. I can see nothing good coming from that. It’s just a bad, bad idea. And I have deep skepticism about any legislator that wants that power.
B) “[Chicago] Alderman have been considered “conservators of the peace” under Illinois law since 1872, granting them the power to make arrests and carry a concealed handgun in the case they or someone else is under immediate threat of bodily harm. They also have badges. […]”
What?? We should ask Ed Burke to share what it was like before Chicago Alders had that power.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:02 pm:
Aw… which lawmaker would be first;
“Do you know who I am? I also have a badge”
That’s would be priceless.
- Red Ketcher - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:05 pm:
No - Egos and Badges are Bad Mix - No
- Lt Guv - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:06 pm:
Where’s the need? Additionally, it’s tone deaf.
- Pius - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:06 pm:
No. Most politicians could use training on how to be a useful elected official. They hardly have any time to get this type of training.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:07 pm:
The body camera angle is a solid way to tamp down some folks on this.
It makes sense too.
Only takes one “odd” stop under very “odd” circumstances that might be a big thing that blows up on a legislator
- OneMan - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:08 pm:
Good golly this is a bad idea, that being said considering the number of GA members facing charges over the years it might be an efficiency measure.
No
- Downstate Dem - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:11 pm:
No. The two should be separate, those who make the laws, and those who enforce the laws. I realize there have been local sheriffs who say they will not enforce certain laws, but they should stll stay separate.
- Fav Human - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:13 pm:
No. And why on earth would it be needed?
- Lucky Pierre - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:13 pm:
Yes but only if they are able to arrest other legislators only
- thisjustingagain - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:14 pm:
This is such a bad idea on so many level that it sets a new low for bills introduced in Illinois. They can still make an arrest as a private citizen for felonies and misdemeanors under 725 ILCS5/107-3 (Arrest by private person).
- The Dude Abides - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:15 pm:
Sounds like a bad idea. Maybe they could learn to be a little more bi partisan and put the citizens interest ahead of their own. Now they want police powers?
- Groucho - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:16 pm:
NO. They are not trained police officers.
- Responsa - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:16 pm:
Emphatic No. No in several languages. Also, Nein. Nyet. Non.
- Groucho - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:17 pm:
Montrose - at least Burke was a cop at one time.
- Michael Westen - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:20 pm:
Unless they’re going to use these powers to arrest each other, no.
- Rachel - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:20 pm:
Tarver is my rep. Why on earth, with all that’s going on in his district and the state, would he be writing a bill like this one? I mean seriously? It’s obviously a stunt (I would hope so) so what’s the point?
- cermak_rd - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:23 pm:
It actually interests me that Aldercritters have this already. I remember the kerfuffle over Alderperson Tillman’s gun. Which alone could explain the training requirement.
But I do not recall ever hearing of an alderman actually effecting any sort of arrest despite having these powers. So I don’t think we’re going to see our legislators staking out shady establishments and going on arrest binges.
- SouthSide Markie - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:25 pm:
It’s not just Chicago alderman. Under Sec. 3.1-15-25 of the Illinois Municipal Code, all city and village mayors, presidents, alderman and trustees are conservators of the peace. This is an archaic throwback to a time when this may or may not have been necessary in more remote areas. It isn’t anymore. Consequently, for that and the other many reasons mentioned, I voted no. I’d like to see the power removed from municipal officials as well.
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:25 pm:
“It’s just a bill.”
And no.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:25 pm:
=== are able to arrest other legislators only===
Hope that’s snark, lol
- WillRez - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:27 pm:
Because there’s no imaginable reason for a person, simply by virtue of their election as a state rep and a training course, to have the authority to arrest anyone.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:27 pm:
I think they should “run” it.
It should win a “Century Club” nod.
Plus, I’d like to know which legislator thinks this makes a lick of sense.
- Huh? - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:34 pm:
What responsa said, adding, Hxxl no.
- Masker - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:35 pm:
Funny, wouldn’t the new police reform bill apply to the g/a as well? Where’s a body cam, your inability to use force, etc…oh and if the USA bill passes no more immunity????
- proudstatetrooper - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:37 pm:
Ridiculous. Cant wait for for a legislator to experience what most coppers experience every day. Tell Mr Didnothingwrong he/she is being detained or arrested and then watch the sparks fly. Throw a weapon into the mix and the real mess begins. No No No
- SouthSide Markiie - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:38 pm:
=== are able to arrest other legislators only===
Jokes aside, I can foresee a scenario where one legislator accuses another of doing something illegal and starts talking to the media about exercising his/her arrest powers.
- TheInvisibleMan - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:38 pm:
To be clear, this and what SouthSide Marike wrote above, is only a granted power after taking the required courses and training.
For the county coroners powers of arrest, that comes immediately with taking office with no additional training necessary. (55 ILCS 5/3-3007) (Ch. 34, par. 3-3007)
- Jo Jo Monkeyboy - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:39 pm:
Of all the issues they need to deal with, this ain’t one.
- Leslie K - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:40 pm:
===But I do not recall ever hearing of an alderman actually effecting any sort of arrest despite having these powers.===
No, but there has been some impersonating police:
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2018/6/19/18327858/ald-joe-moreno-accused-of-impersonating-a-police-officer-in-parking-dispute
And I am also a no, for the many reasons already listed. “Conservator of the peace,” and Chicago’s “Special Policeman” ordinance (which allows the police superintendent to appoint just about anyone a special policeman) are old ways to get around Illinois’ ban on concealed carry. We have concealed carry now. You don’t need a badge to carry a gun anymore. Apply for CCL like everyone else, and make a citizen’s arrest if it is ever called for.
- SouthSide Markie - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:41 pm:
Invisible Man, sorry that I didn’t make that clear. Thanks.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:42 pm:
=== I can foresee a scenario where one legislator accuses another of doing something illegal and starts talking to the media about exercising his/her arrest powers.===
Thing about that, which I hope it was snark, it’s quite funny, is once a seal like that, even if it’s true, is broken, trust inside the idea of 177 folks knowing they are in things together… yikes.
It’d be like junior high with every student a hall monitor.
Like I said, let’s run it, like to see who’d be green in this fiasco.
Century Club City.
- Candy Dogood - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:50 pm:
The last thing our state needs is a member of the legislature running around behaving like Steven Seagal does in one of his reality shows.
I also question who would be on the hook for legislators making wrongful arrests, abusing their police powers, or using unnecessary violence.
From a strict constitutional standpoint, these also aren’t the powers of the legislature.
- Anyone Remember - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:52 pm:
TheInvisibleMan -
And unless the training is at CPD or Cook County, mostly it is residential for 14 consecutive weeks.
- Excitable Boy - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 1:59 pm:
H@#| no. And strip these powers from Alderpersons while you’re at it.
- Nadigam - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 2:00 pm:
This is an odd bill for Rep. Tarver who many believe has some potential as a real policy guy.
To the question as to whether legislators should have police powers, I think there are some legislators I would be hesitant to let have a Conceal Carry license let alone the ability to arrest someone. Aside from watching the circus that would follow I see no redeeming quality in this legislation.
- Joe Bidenopolous - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 2:02 pm:
Curtis is a smart dude and I’ve had a lot of entertaining, informative conversations with him, but no, just plain no. Stupendously terrible idea
- Joe Bidenopolous - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 2:02 pm:
Look, I mean, it would start with Bailey trying to arrest all of the Democrats for “stealing” the election.
- Lowdrag - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 2:09 pm:
Voted No, it serves no purpose.
- Back to the Future - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 2:14 pm:
Voted No.
if you ever met my representatives you’d vote No too.
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 2:33 pm:
No.
Unless I get a badge, then it is cool. /s
- JoanP - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 2:34 pm:
Oh, dear lord, can you imagine Darren Bailey and his ilk having police powers? Oy.
= [Chicago] Alderman have . . . badges. =
My great-uncle by marriage was a Chicago alderman, and I still have his badge.
- Not the Dude - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 2:35 pm:
Voted no, Darren Bailey, need I say more?
- Southern Skeptic - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 2:36 pm:
Funny - those of us who know state reps and senators and have them as friends and colleagues are saying hell no by 94%. Too funny.
- H-W - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 2:59 pm:
Politicians are almost literally sworn not to tell the truth, much less the whole truth. Almost by definition, they are not to be believed, and by law are not liable for the words that come out of their mouths. No, I think this bill is foolishness.
- Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 3:00 pm:
Voted no, with the lunacy on the right these days and the January attempt to overthrow democracy. An armed legislature goaded by an authoritarian executive to arrest colleagues and disrupt proceedings because they don’t like the outcomes—just no.
- Froganon - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 4:38 pm:
Terrible idea, The Eastern Block with power to arrest and detain until they find a suitable venue to arraign is a nightmare. The Handmaids Tale of Illinois. Put a stake through this one.
Voted no.
- XonXoff - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 4:46 pm:
Voted no.
IMHO, some in the GA are pretty clearly nuts.
I dislike this idea nearly as much as law enforcement’s increasing influences on legislation.
- West Side the Best Side - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 4:53 pm:
If the bill included the executive and judicial branches issues of separation of power could be resolved at the OK Corral.
- 62468 - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 5:04 pm:
No. Why am I thinking about the ending of Animal Farm after reading this post?
- Just Another Anon - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 5:17 pm:
@ The Invisible Man
That only exists because (1) under common law, only a conservator of the peace for a given county could arrest the Sheriff of a given county (and the Sheriff was the de facto COP), and (2) Coroners are required to be able to conduct not only investigations, but full blown inquests/coroner’s juries , and based upon the verdict of such juries, to arrest the “slayer” and bring the slayer before the circuit court. 55 ILCS 5/3-3036.
Beginning with the latter, Coroner’s inquests were actually major steps forward in due process. Too frequently a murder lead to the formation of a posse and a very summary imposition of justice. The ability of a coroner to summon a jury, conduct an inquest, obtain a warrant from a jury, and then locate and remand the “slayer” for trial limited the number of outside players in the process. The former, while no longer the case in Illinois due to a variety of statutes, is more archaic but entertaining.
Neat minutia, but the office of the Coroner in the United States has some of the relics of the common law counterbalance to the office of the Sheriff, mixed with a ready made medical officer for developing counties. Hell, in LA the Coroner is also the officer who handles involuntary mental health commitments.
- Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 5:50 pm:
Based just on the post, if this bill were law, you’d have to take a training course to get the police powers. The Caulkins Standard is that there are no changes needed to current police practices, so obviously any training the law enforcement standards board came up with would be satisfactory. Thus, I voted yes based on The Caulkins Standard.
- @misterjayem - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 6:16 pm:
“It’s ACAB not ABAC‼”
I voted no.
– MrJM
- j - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 6:37 pm:
These are the guys who enacted two party consent for audio taping after one of them taped another. Does anyone think they will consent to body cameras which they are going to require of peace officers? The horror.
- Yooper in Diaspora - Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 11:15 pm:
“With or without process”–a lack of due process is what most troubles me today in our polarized environment.