59 Comments - Blue Dog - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 6:53 am: It is a fact, at least in downstate, where schools and daycare have been open, that there are a good number of individuals who are opting out of work. - Pundent - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 7:38 am: =It is a fact= I think the only fact we can take from your comment is that you didn’t read the article. The pandemic has only amplified labor trends that have been apparent for decades now. People don’t “want” to work for a substandard wage they can’t live on - joey - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 8:16 am: where I work wages went from 11.50 to 15.50 in March they have been trying to hire 15 to 20 more workers most that are hired never show up clock out for lunch never to be seen again or are gone in the first week - Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 8:18 am: === where I work=== What industry? - North sider - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 8:21 am: “People don’t “want” to work for a substandard wage they can’t live on.” A couple making $19/hour exceeds the US median household income by 15%, or more than $10k. So “what they can live on” is now the new subjective standard for unemployment eligibility? - Stix Hix - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 8:23 am: ==What industry?== One that forbids punctuation. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 8:24 am: === So “what they can live on”=== … during a pandemic with Covidiots as bosses or customers… and a lack of child care, and paying child care versus staying home and *not* paying for day care. I know, real life choices families seem so foreign to you, so your confusion at this is not surprising. - Mr. Hand - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 8:24 am: People will act predictability based on incentives - Econ 101. Gutelius makes strong counterpoints. However, the wheels are in motion to help with daycare with the Child Tax Credit payments being raised and starting to come out in July. Might not help a struggling family with daycare now, but we will see if that changes the scope of the issue when it arrives. - North Sider - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 8:25 am: “What industry.” In my area it’s construction, manufacturing, retail, hospitality, food services, banking, and health care. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 8:29 am: ===retail, hospitality, food services=== I’m sure dealing with Covidiot customers hasn’t factored in that… nope. ===construction, manufacturing=== They paying any union or prevailing wages for those jobs? ===health care=== Well before the pandemic, nursing alone was at a critical shortage… === banking=== You mean… like a teller? - joey - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 8:34 am: a large retail store - Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 8:38 am: ===a large retail store=== Covidiots without masks running about, child care still a factor… Large retailers and others want the $300 “extra” to end as then it becomes “desperation” not the fair market dictating the wage or choices families need to make when talking about children. You should talk to your coworkers. Thanks. Be well. - A - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 8:41 am: Don’t want to work for a wage they can’t live on? In younger years I was a teacher, working for the lowest paid district in my county. Public school. BS degree in Education. In order to have enough money to “live on”, I always worked a 2nd job, at night and I guess you’d say a 3rd job during the summer. You get it done, the way you need to. And, by the way, another teacher, dad of 3–his kids qualified for free school lunches in their schools. Overpaid teachers……..um hm Just sayin. You do what you need to do if you’re not of wealth Where did that get lost? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 8:45 am: === Where did that get lost?=== A once in a century global pandemic? - North sider - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:01 am: “without masks running about” Isn’t that a mute point, if someone is already vaccinated? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:02 am: === Isn’t that a mute point, if someone is already vaccinated?=== Everyone is vaccinated? News to me. - Cool Papa Bell - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:02 am: Are some folks staying at home sure. Have many moved on, yep. Others re-shored to other opportunities, you bet. But lazy and stupid is easier for some to adopt as the reasons why. And while people “won’t work” businesses pocket PPP money and other bailout funds that largely go into the bank account of the owners. The industries that are looking for workers now were always looking for workers. Two years ago fast food joints were putting in touch screens to handle ordering - because the minimum wage was going to go up.. Outcome - those wages are still largely flat, the screens are still there (where you even order inside anymore) and workers still can’t be lured into work. So much has gone on in the past 18 months.. People got let go from low wage jobs and then took stock. Maybe after not getting a full 40hrs every week they decided to drive door dash for the same money and set their schedule. Perhaps they moved up in the world and now work for someone else offering on the job training in an industry where they wanted to be. Perhaps they saved so much money in 18 months they went back to JR college or got a work certificate to better themselves. You know, sometimes poor people do make good lifer bettering decisions. But I know how we like to think all they do is buy pop and chips with SNAP cards. Many just said bleep it and retired. There were always plenty of 60+ folks brining me coffee at a drive through or helping in the isles of my big box store. I bet a biggly number of them looked at SS and their “free government” money and said my HEALTH is worth more. Mom’s are still staying home with kids. 20,000 people died in Illinois - many of those folks still worked. Most, in those “hard to fill jobs”. Just look at the recent death numbers. About half of the people dying each day are 69 and under. Those are working class folks. But yeah - people are lazy, they just want to stay home. NO ONE WANTS TO WORK ANYMORE. I also don’t see a bunch of well to do families now rushing to seen high schoolers into to fill all these jobs - remember that. Low wage jobs are how you start out…. Odd mom’s and dad’s are rushing to get Chad and Trixie their work permit. Frankly - if someone is getting $300 more a week by not working and staying at home. That doesn’t make them stupid, lazy or whatever - It makes them financially literate. - Blue Dog - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:06 am: …people don’t want to work for a substandard wage they can’t live on…. I am referring to union jobs with negotiated wages and benefits….but what sort of package is a wage you could live with? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:07 am: === I am referring to union jobs=== Talk to the Business Agents… if a company is hiring for union wages and wants union workers, go directly to the local. I fed you. Have a good day. - Leslie K - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:09 am: ===Isn’t that a mute point=== Although funny (mute/mask/mouth/silent), I believe the word you were looking for was “moot.” And it is not. I can’t tell by looking at someone whether they are vaccinated or not. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:11 am: There’s a Johnny Paycheck tune that some workers are singing now, about returning to low wage jobs. - North Sider - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:11 am: “Everyone is vaccinated? News to me.” You were writing about the dangerous workplaces due to people not being vaccinated. But, if one is vaccinated, are they not safe to return to the workforce? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:13 am: ===I can’t tell by looking at someone whether they are vaccinated or not.=== … and lest we forget… “no government is gonna tell me to carry a card that tells my health status, ‘HIPAA’ and other stuff, my body… “ It’s one thing to go out and eat with those where you all are vaccinated, it’s another to be, say a server, and you are playing a roulette game, who is vaccinated, even if you’re vaccinated. Nothing is 100%, but we’re not in the window of barely in the shadow of herd immunity - Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:14 am: === But, if one is vaccinated, are they not safe to return to the workforce?=== Employers are requiring vaccinated workers, for their safety, that’s news to me too. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:14 am: ===But, if one is vaccinated, are they not safe to return to the workforce?=== Now do child care. - North sider - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:18 am: “It’s one thing to go out and eat with those where you all are vaccinated, it’s another to be, say a server, and you are playing a roulette game, who is vaccinated, even if you’re vaccinated.” So, are you saying that people should not return to the workforce, or even dine out until everyone is vaccinated? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:21 am: === So, are you saying=== The idea that employers think $300 is too much and keeping people home… when child care and Covidiots still milling about, the closer we get to herd immunity, the likelihood of more options for child care and less risk for all is possible You understand that, you’re merely ignoring it. - Responsa - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:25 am: The Doordash/Uber drivers, Amazon delivery drivers, grocery stockers and cashiers, bank tellers, retail workers, handymen, and cooks for carryout meals (just to name a few) who have kept us going for over a year are not chopped liver. The idea that it is still too dangerous or too low paying for many to work in an economy that is begging to hire workers is not a good look for the governor. I am disappointed that he did not recognize this social disconnect when he extended the weekly benefits with no questions asked. - Annonin' - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:25 am: MarkieD is really tone deaf here. He wants the state to cut benefits so workers are forced back to substandard pay…which of course makes eligible for other federal freebies –food stamps, housing , health care, etc. — to make up for the low wwages. Perhaps this scam is coming to an end. - ChicagoBars - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:26 am: Purely anecdotal (but exhaustively personally researched) lot of Chicago servers and bartenders are in no hurry to get back to work harder than they did in 2019 (and they did work hard) to make way less money right now in 2021 with capacity limits and sharply reduced leisure and business tourism. The extra $300 just makes than an even easier decision for many of them. Throw in that some of the industry “lifers” took remote work office/sales jobs for equal money and no nights/weekends it’s a big hole for hospitality to fill. Everything’s complicated. Hard to tell if the labor problems right now are a big permanent shift or generous UI benefit blip. Will be interesting to see how end of $300 Federal subsidy in fall moves needle and how the labor shortage until then impacts tax collections of State’s sky high hospitality taxes. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:31 am: First, - ChicagoBars -, good stuff, good perspective ===The idea that it is still too dangerous or too low paying for many to work in an economy that is begging to hire workers is not a good look for the governor=== So they faced NO danger while at work or even now? Begging… they want the $300 removed so the desperate need to come back. If it were merely just wages, even that would be cynically uneven to thought. See - ChicagoBars - take as well. - Annonin' - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:32 am: Another “solution” for MarkieD https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/mcdonalds-owned-u-restaurants-boost-121052726.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZHJ1ZGdlcmVwb3J0LmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIeB88EF6vZEfAyvCkqLhjJIDuU-0RLlWarvd5hSvN5WCaD_wYhLWi3UyVBk2BFGjtsP5Jjl30NvY9aFhrInQoZ-pLIePcrZdwARTWZVjSoXyCaKDuStOWQDQ2NaF-L-6Yh-RXPU31RRSNAFxuhzYrqto2MiS9fl_RPa8y_NT_vE - North Sider - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:33 am: “It’s one thing to go out and eat with those where you all are vaccinated, it’s another to be, say a server, and you are playing a roulette game, who is vaccinated, even if you’re vaccinated.” Well, I’m eating out regularly and over tipping to support our local economy and workers. Businesses can’t survive if they are competing against benefits of $19, funded by the government, with their own tax dollars. But to each his own. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:36 am: ===But to each his own.=== Concur. The sooner we can move from where we are to fully open and giving both businesses and employees a chance, that’ll change things too. - Pundent - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:39 am: =The idea that it is still too dangerous or too low paying for many to work in an economy that is begging to hire workers is not a good look for the governor.= That seems to be your idea not the governors. I’ve never heard it said. There are still kids doing remote learning, child care limitations, and only 1/3 of us who are vaccinated which leaves us well short of herd immunity. If there’s a social disconnect in any of this it’s your unwillingness to realize what our current situation continues to be. Again, I would encourage all to read Hannah’s article. The argument that the conditions exist for people to work and they are simply choosing not to ignores reality. - 4 percent - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:46 am: @Annonin Manufacturers pay more than $80,000 in wages and benefits. 92 percent have employer sponsored health care. This is nearly triple the $15 minimum” wage so I think that the wages and benefits at least in manufacturing and construction would make your argument moot. - Effingham - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:53 am: Pizza Man restaurant in Effingham closings. Can’t get workers - Scott - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 9:56 am: === In younger years I was a teacher, working for the lowest paid district in my county. Public school. BS degree in Education. In order to have enough money to “live on”, I always worked a 2nd job, at night and I guess you’d say a 3rd job during the summer. You get it done, the way you need to. And, by the way, another teacher, dad of 3–his kids qualified for free school lunches in their schools. Overpaid teachers……..um hm === The thing is, you shouldn’t have to work a 2nd or 3rd job just to get by. If you have a college degree and are working a full-time job, that should be enough. Having a 2nd job should only be necessary if your 1st job is only part-time, or if you want to earn more than what you need to “live on”. I agree that teachers are (for the most part) grossly underpaid. === Just sayin. You do what you need to do if you’re not of wealth Where did that get lost? === Well, it used to be that one person working one full-time job could support a family of 4 without another adult in the household having to work. I’ll grant that having 2 parents work full-time to support a family of 4 nowadays is “expected”, but then expecting one or both of those parents to pick up a 2nd job just to make ends meet is ridiculous. - very old soil - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 10:08 am: 4 percent. do you have a citation for that claim of $80,000 year? - cermak_rd - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 10:11 am: If Manufacturers that pay that kind of wage and our willing to train are having trouble getting workers, they ought to publicize that and maybe put virtual tours on Facebook/Instagram etc. rather than relying on their regular recruiters. I would think they would be able to get people working for less to move up to those jobs. A guy working at Walgreens isn’t making that kind of scratch. And yes, as long as you follow your company’s safety rules, most modern factory work is very safe. - very old soil - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 10:15 am: See this publication for actual wage data, https://www2.illinois.gov/ides/lmi/Occupational%20Employment%20Statistics%20OES%20Wage%20Inform/2020.pdf - So Il - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 10:22 am: There is a factor which is underreported. Many younger workers refuse jobs that require shift work. As a union Business Manager I have witnessed skilled manufacturing maintenance jobs going unfilled because many people won’t work nights and weekends at any wage. - Pundent - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 10:22 am: =Businesses can’t survive if they are competing against benefits of $19, funded by the government, with their own tax dollars.= They also won’t survive if we can’t get to herd immunity which is what will facilitate not only a return work but a return to normal consumer behavior. The government isn’t competing with businesses they’re competing with the virus. Instead of focusing on the enhanced benefits being offered we should focus on the circumstances which are prompting them. We need to get to herd immunity to restore all aspects of our economy. It’s the patriotic things to do. - Glenn - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 10:28 am: Countries like Australia and Vietnam had strict near total lock downs with very low rates of Covid infections. They weren’t affected by obstructions to lock downs by claims of personal “liberties” and government distrust such as promoted by hoaxer-in-chief Trump. Anti-vaxers and anti-maskers are now upset that exercises of their personal liberties have left people wary about public interactions in this country that has lead the world in Covid infections and deaths. I had some outside plumbing work done in August of 2020 and the plumber’s wife continued her waiter work despite the demanding and indifferent customers who continually exercised their “liberty” to expose her to the pandemic risk. The consequences of ignoring pandemic science is not negotiable. - @misterjayem - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 10:31 am: “It is a fact, at least in downstate, where schools and daycare have been open, that there are a good number of individuals who are opting out of work.” It’s a fact, that unless you can show that they are receiving pandemic-enhanced weekly benefits, that proves nothing except that the wages offered are too low to draw workers. – MrJM - cermak_rd - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 10:33 am: So Il, The company I work for offers a premium in pay for that in order to get enough people. - North Sider - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 10:39 am: $19/hour is the effective rate for unemployment benefits. But businesses have to pay more than that to hire employees. After all, what % reduction would you take in salary, if you did not have to work? If you’d stay home for just a 25% reduction in salary, that means employers have to pay more than $23.75/hour to get someone off the couch, or just under $50k/year. - Rich Miller - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 10:45 am: It seems apparent that many of you didn’t read the whole thing. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 11:06 am: From Hanna Meisel’s great work; ===Gutelius, who has spent years researching warehouse workers in particular, says people are running up against long-running systemic problems in the American economy. Gutelius told NPR Illinois she believes workers from all backgrounds in recent years — but especially during the pandemic — have opened their eyes to three issues: jobs that offer wages so low they’re unlivable, lack of affordable childcare and lack of paid leave at many jobs, especially low-wage employment.=== It’s not that $300 is money treated as “easy street living”, it is understanding the real economic impact, including child care, including jobs with tough working conditions like a lack of paid leave, forcing the continued working as not to lose wages. The $300 highlighted and showed others now in similar situations how many must live, pandemic or not. ===the $300 “extra” to end as then it becomes “desperation” not the fair market dictating the wage or choices families need to make when talking about children.=== … add too the idea of no time off less you lose your wages, this situation isn’t about the simple “people are lazy” want of those looking for “back to normal” but recalibrating for families as they begin to contemplate a “new normal” - Blue Dog - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 11:12 am: OW. You might wanna sit this one out. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 11:18 am: - Blue Dog - For a person who claims facts with “no facts” to point to, Facebook is perfect for ya. Maybe read Hanna’s work. This time for comprehension. - ArchPundit - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 11:58 am: ===I am referring to union jobs with negotiated wages and benefits….but what sort of package is a wage you could live with? So, jobs that require training and skills given how you are describing it. Is the skilled labor shortage actually worse than prior to the pandemic? It’s not like manufacturing didn’t have this problem for several years. - ArchPundit - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 12:02 pm: So if wages have dropped over time in warehouse jobs there appears to be a surplus of labor in that area, yet it’s a constant complaint of employers that there is a shortage. It’s almost as if anecdotes are misleading often. “For the last 12 years that I’ve been doing interviews with warehouse employers, almost every single one will tell me there’s a worker shortage, no matter what the labor market looks like, disregarding the fact that wages have actually dropped in that industry over the last 12 years,” she said. “ - Bourbon Street - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 12:32 pm: ==It seems apparent that many of you didn’t read the whole thing== Perhaps some of these commentators aspire to join the Tribune Editorial Board. - RNUG - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 1:01 pm: I generally respect Hannah’s work and it was good as far as it went, but I think the article could have used more exploration of some of the issues. There are exceptions to every rule / observation. And let’s be honest, wages often reflect to cost of living in a given area; one size does not fit all. I’ll bore you with a few different observations / anecdotes. Feel free to skip my rambling. 1) When I worked in management for the State, we supervised employees in high cost Chicago and lower cost Springfield. I worked in both locations for a while and had to write the performance reviews on employees in both locations. There was a stark difference between the two cities. In Chicago people were in job titles 2 or more levels higher than they would have been in Springfield simply for the extra pay. In Chicago, even with that differential, the pay was on the low end compared to the private sector; in Springfield it was on the high end by comparison. A equal unemployment payment would have had unequal effects. 2) This is going to be a personal example. Family member works in the food service industry. He gets more than minimum wage but nothing like the proposed $15 an hour. Unlike a lot of those type positions, he does have benefits, including paid sick time and paid vacation. Insurance is available but very expensive. He is full time, defined as 32+ hours a week, and typically worked 38 or 39 hours pre-pandemic. To round out the picture, married, buying a house in the same neighborhood as I live in, 2 kids, wife doesn’t work, doesn’t make sense when child care costs are considered. Yes, they do get some government help because of the low income. And yes, we did help them with a down payment on the house a few years back, but it needed a bit it work and was cheap for the area; they’ve made all the payments on their own. He worked throughout the entire pandemic. For a couple of months he was cut back some on hours while they figured out how to better do take-out, but keep his benefits. Lately he’s been working 40 to 50 hours per week. Used to be the employer cared about overtime; now it’s just can you work? Bottom line on this take is you can live on a lower wage if the cost of living in the area is reasonable and you make smart choices. 3) As I’ve mentioned before, a friend owns a local neighborhood place. They managed to keep most of the employees working during the pandemic while switching to take-out only (it was previously maybe half of their business). In the last few months, they have lost several employees. One left for a better opportunity (to manage their own place), others left for unknown reasons. There were 3 or 4 that they were unable to keep employed; those obviously got unemployment including the extra payments. When inside was reopened, none of those who were laid off returned. So the place is running shorthanded, looking for another cook and additional wait staff. They did manage to hire a couple of wait staff. Bottom line on this one is that the whole job issue is quite nuanced Clearly some people decided to stay home as long as the extra unemployment is being paid. Others are out hustling, either moving up or switching around to where they perceive more opportunity. 4) Finally, locally every restaurant seems to have staff wanted signs on their doors … places from locally owned ones to name brand corporate operations, some of which offer pretty decent pay and benefits. The one thing we can say for sure is that the extra unemployment, at least in central Illinois, did pay some of the laid off close to minimum wage employees better than they had ever been paid. And right now it seems, at least in my limited knowledge, to be working as a disincentive to getting a sub-set of the workforce back to work. - Alice - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 2:31 pm: I think bars/ restaurants will be paying ppl cash. Is it legal? No- but to keep up with increase capacity it will be an option so everyone wins in the eyes of owners/workers. - Blue Dog - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 2:34 pm: RNUG. Well said again. One point. Wages often reflect what consumers are willing to pay for a product or service. When American made products are competing against, let’s say China made products, the American consumer usually buys the least expensive option. This is true even for my union buddies. Take for example…..Oreo production and consumption….wonder how many living wage advocates that visit this blog have a pantry full of them. So, sometimes wages are established by external factors as well. - RNUG - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 3:05 pm: == I think bars/ restaurants will be paying ppl cash. == You just reminded me that one fast food place is advertising that they will pay employees at the end of every workday. - 17% Solution - Thursday, May 13, 21 @ 3:12 pm: Since we’re talking about anecdotes I’ll bring up my daughter. She would love to go back to work. Summer camps start at 9 or 10. Most jobs start at 8 or 9. She can’t be in two places at once. There are less slots open at summer camps, remember children can’t be vaccinated and they have to socially distance. During the school year classes are in the building two days a week and there is no half hour breakfast like before in 2019 nor is there an after school program. So this whole “well schools and daycares are open so why aren’t people going back to work” argument is disingenuous. It’s not like last year when things were completely closed but it’s not like 2019 either. Not by a long shot. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.