* Press release…
Statement of AFSCME Council 31 Executive Director Roberta Lynch:
“AFSCME has been working steadily to encourage every union member and retiree to get vaccinated to protect themselves, their family and their community.
“In discussions around vaccine requirements with the state and other employers, we have urged exactly the kind of flexible, vaccinate-or-test requirement that Gov. Pritzker and teacher unions are announcing for Illinois teachers today. It is also the same vaccinate-or-test requirement that President Biden has made of federal employees.
“The Pritzker Administration should now work collaboratively with our union to develop a similar flexible approach for state employees.”
*** UPDATE 1 *** Maybe Council 31 can do something about this sentiment at Fox Developmental Center in Dwight, where this sign was posted…
*** UPDATE 2 *** AFSCME Local 3605 president Kelley Beal’s Facebook page…
*** UPDATE 3 *** Jordan Abudayyeh…
This administration has worked – and continues to work – diligently to ensure there is a comprehensive testing regimen in state run congregate care facilities, but with unvaccinated employees transmitting the virus to vulnerable residents, it is clear that we must do more to protect our most vulnerable and those in our care and custody by requiring vaccination to prevent the spread of this deadly virus.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 10:43 am:
Still doesn’t support or say the word “mandate”
All you really need to know.
This is a phony attempt to seem as thoughtful as the teachers… but won’t support the wording or thought to “mandate”
Words matter.
This is a labor organization trying to pretend they are approaching it the “same”. They are not.
- Westender - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 10:45 am:
Is there any worse union in Illinois than AFSCME? Yesterday it was absolutely not. Today it is give me what the teachers have. Tomorrow it will be we have always been in favor. It is good to see some unions looking out for their members. AFSCME, take note.
- AD - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 10:47 am:
Talk about selfish. Roberta, think with common sense. Springfield just had two people in their 30s die. People are just blowing my mind. “I don’t want to take a shot because of a unproven small risk of future side effects even though the shot has been proven to reduce a major immediate risk of death or severe illness.” Sit down, shut up and take the shot.
- Avocado Toast - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 10:51 am:
This is a cute attempt at crawling their previous statement back while making absolutely no sense. Insert eye roll here.
AFSCME…you said what you said. If you are not going to protect employees who pay for your services to do so when it is life and death then I hope that your members really think about fair share.
Everything that Willy said- 100%
- AD - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 10:57 am:
Take a vote of your members AFSCME. I’m guessing this is not an issue that most of them want apparent Health Expert Roberta Lynch making a decision for them on.
- Pundent - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 10:59 am:
AFSCME had their opportunity to state their position on this yesterday and at no point did they make any mention of testing in lieu of testing. Instead they threw out red herrings and talked about the “fear” of being vaccinated. They made it clear that the misguided minority views of their membership and the public at large were guiding their decision making. The IEA and IFT on the other hand were succinct and unequivocal. This is about saving lives and fulfilling their fundamental mission.
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:04 am:
===and at no point did they make any mention of testing===
Yes, they did. https://capitolfax.com/2021/08/25/afscme-opposes-state-employee-vax-mandate-points-to-union-members-who-remain-fearful-of-the-covid-vaccine/
But the statement yesterday absolutely blew up in their face, so here we are today. Progress.
- NonAFSCMEStateEmployeeFromChatham - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:08 am:
What kind of “religious exemptions” are they seeking? The Church of the Almighty Harley Davidson Bar Hoppers?
- Flyin' Elvis'-Utah Chapter - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:10 am:
Roberta Lynch is no Henry Bayer.
She was always more of Henry’s bad guy, berating those locals who opposed Council’s edicts.
She was good at it, but it doesn’t work at the top spot.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:15 am:
To the update;
It can’t be said to the traditions and the missions of organized labor that AFSCME is a serious labor organization.
That signs tells me so.
What the sign also signals is the phony minority of the union are using the “rules” of labor to drag the whole of AFSCME away from the pillars, the foundation of why organized labor exists.
So… no… not like the teachers.
No.
- Give Me A Break - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:17 am:
Maybe the fine folks at the Fox Center would prefer COGFA receive an intent to close notification for their facility.
- Beth - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:19 am:
Can the citizens of Illinois be mandated to vax
If not.
Why not
- Grandson of Man - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:22 am:
The vax/mandatory test combo looks like it could be a solution. Good on AFSCME for supporting it. Government workers have a responsibility to promote health and life and should gladly embrace the responsibility of regular testing or vaccination.
- Give Us Barabbas - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:24 am:
The union badly miscalculated the relative merit of pandering to a minority of misinformed yokels in their ranks, versus the long term damage to the union reputation and moral authority with the public. Can average members force an election to replace their leadership?
- Ducky LaMoore - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:28 am:
Beth, probably not. But if they want to get on a plane, or go to a school, or are regulated as a licensed professional etc, yes. But a blanket vax mandate would not pass constitutional scrutiny.
- Huh? - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:29 am:
Anon at 11:29 twas I.
- Jocko - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:31 am:
==JUST HOLD ON==
To what? The delusion that Covid will magically disappear? That your healthy lifestyle or faith can defeat the virus?
- Beth - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:37 am:
Does the constitution not apply to teachers
- Huh? - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:38 am:
“But a blanket vax mandate would not pass constitutional scrutiny.”
Vaccinations are required for school attendance. Universities have additional requirements beyond the childhood shots.
The constitutional issues of a covid vax mandate have already been to SCOTUS. They turned it down.
https://www.ncronline.org/news/coronavirus/supreme-court-rejects-challenge-indiana-universitys-vaccine-mandate
- Frank talks - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:39 am:
But I was told yesterday the leadership of AFSCME wants members to get vaccinated? They just want to negotiate it but they feel everyone should get it?
Giant and absolute failure by Lynch and her team.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:39 am:
Beth,
No one has a constitutional right to be a teacher
Go back to Facebook
- Demoralized - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:40 am:
==Does the constitution not apply to teachers==
You don’t have a constitutional right to be a teacher. And there is specific Supreme Court precedent that says vaccine mandates are acceptable.
- Grandson of Man - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:43 am:
“we have urged exactly the kind of flexible, vaccinate-or-test requirement”
Requirement, mandate—either way, the union appears willing to accept this, which is good. Either get vaccinated, take regular tests or seek employment elsewhere. That’s more than fair in a pandemic.
- OMG - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:47 am:
The reality is, any vaccination mandate always has an “or be tested regularly” clause because there are people who cannot take the vaccine. If your immune system is shot because of chemo therapy, your doctor is likely to recommend that you not get the vaccine - for instance. And everything gets bargained - before or after a declaration. So this is just semantical bs that AFSCME tried to be cute about. And it didn’t work. And its not helping anyone. And its against their core mission.
- Flying Elvis'-Utah Chapter - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:48 am:
I’ve known Kelley Beal for years.
If you’re taking medical advice from him, you deserve everything that befalls you.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:51 am:
=== Requirement, mandate—either way===
No. Not “either way”
It’s good, “progress”, but if words matter, than omitting “mandate” is a big message miss.
We’ll see how far AFSCME will go without having to say “mandate” before it all implodes by a vocal minority
- HangingOn - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:52 am:
==What kind of “religious exemptions” are they seeking?==
I used to go to school with someone whose religion refused any sort of medicine. If they had a headache, instead of taking tylenol they would pray. Don’t know what they called the religion, but it probably has followers out there even today. I personally got the shot as soon as I could.
- Fixer - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 11:54 am:
AFSCME has turned a blind eye to malfeasance within certain locals for a long time, so I doubt they’re going to look to closely into this local for a sign.
- Beth - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:01 pm:
Trigger much. Ow
- Jocko - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:05 pm:
Are the women in that photo wishing him a short stay in the ICU?
https://tinyurl.com/zp4tvpdr
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:05 pm:
- Beth -
Move on.
To the real word choices…
Every instance is predicated on “required”
The idea that “mandate” is a “word too far” and… trying to glom on what the teacher “got” and how the teachers came out to that reality… it’s important to see how far AFSCME has come… and how far they need to still get to… when a word is still to far to type.
- Grandson of Man - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:09 pm:
A vaccination/mandatory testing deal being implemented seems far more important than the language used. In the end, do workers have to either test regularly or get vaccinated? If so, that is most important.
“So this is just semantical bs that AFSCME tried to be cute about.”
That’s where the regular testing requirement comes in.
- DHS Drone - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:10 pm:
Are the people claiming religious exemption also taking state time to get the flu shot? Just curious. At least try to be consistent.
- JS Mill - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:12 pm:
=Trigger much. Ow=
Grow up and learn to read. When you find, in the United States Constitution, a protection from vaccination mandates you will be the first to ever find one.
I am tired of people calling out the constitution who have never read it or understand what it actually does.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:13 pm:
=== In the end===
They aren’t there yet. Nope.
That’s why words matter.
It’s like claiming victory or leveraging when there’s nothing there to leverage.
- OMG - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:15 pm:
Grandson of Man, the point is that AFSCME should have known two facts: 1) “or be subject to regular testing” would be an option and 2) testing, along with other items would definitely be bargained. But they either acted naive on those two items to pander to the anti-vaxxers, or they legitimately didn’t know that those would be on the table. Neither of which are acceptable for a union their size.
- DHS Drone - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:19 pm:
My theory is they are pandering. Council convention is coming up. Council Eboard is up for election. They decided the Executive Director. IDOC might be in the slight minority but they can be pretty organized when something makes them cranky.
- Non1 - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:27 pm:
I am struggling to understand the family dynamic in that FB profile pic…..
- Socially DIstant watcher - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:30 pm:
Beth, if you start with Jacobson v Massachusetts, you’ll find what you’re looking for.
- Beth - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:33 pm:
Demoralized
Then why wouldn’t the Supreme Court precedents not apply to all citizens
State employees are less than 1% of the overall population
- DHS Drone - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:35 pm:
It’s called “condition of employment.”
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:35 pm:
=== Then why wouldn’t the Supreme Court precedents not apply to all citizens===
Because it was about employment.
Keep up.
- Bothanspied - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:38 pm:
Is there any stats on the percentage of AFSCME or state employees that have been vaxxed?
- Unionman - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:39 pm:
AFSCME member here. I have long been concerned with the union’s lacking leadership and it is clearly showing on this issue. If the leadership truly thought that the vaccine mandate was an issue, they would publish polls results or do a survey. Alas, this is just another bargaining chip for them come negotiation time.
- Beth - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:41 pm:
The point is if the vax is the answer to ending this
How is requiring such a small % of people to get the vax
Compared to the pic going to make a dent in the problem
If everyone not just state employees is required also
Wouldn’t this end much quicker
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:42 pm:
=== The point is if the vax is the answer to ending this
How is requiring such a small % of people to get the vax
Compared to the pic going to make a dent in the problem===
No.
The point is… terms of employment.
That’s it.
- DHS Drone - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:42 pm:
What’s strange is usually with something big like this there is a conversation between someone high up in council with someone high up in the governor’s office and/or CMS. And they basically say, “We understand this is what you need. Here is what we need.” The basic points and goals get agreed to and then there are “negotiations” that hammer out the details. That didn’t seem to happen here. Or at least it seems like it has played out poorly.
- Pundent - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:47 pm:
=If everyone not just state employees is required also Wouldn’t this end much quicker=
The Supreme Court decisions allows employer to require vaccines but it doesn’t mandate them. As OW said that’s an employment decision.
But what we can glean from the prior Supreme Court ruling is that an employer can mandate vaccines in the workplace. And that’s what’s happening. Will every employer do this? Of course not. Will more start to? Absolutely.
- Norseman - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:50 pm:
People aren’t forced to take a vaccine against their will. But those who refuse when mandated get kicked out of school, fired from their jobs etc. That’s the way its been for decades and decades. It’s about protecting the public’s health, not the inconvenience of the selfish.
- Nick - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:53 pm:
Everyone should be required to get the vax
This is looking more and more like
Let’s dump on state employees rather than ending the pandemic
- Nick - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:54 pm:
Plenty of selfish people running around
That’s not state employee
No one seems to be too concerned about them
- Mandates are Good - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:55 pm:
I think Beth is raising a very interesting and good question — whether the Governor can require residents to be vaccinated broadly. And the answer is…maybe? What it comes down to, to my mind, is how such a mandate could be enforced effectively. Because if there is no ability to enforce, what’s the point?
Enforcement is easier when a mandate is directly tied to a specific place or activity — such as a job, or taking a cruise. That’s why we keep seeing them framed in that way. It is clear that vaccine mandates across many types of activities are permissible and constitutional. Which ones, and how, are really more pragmatic questions.
- Demoralized - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:56 pm:
==Let’s dump on state employees rather than ending the pandemic==
No, that’s not what it’s looking like unless you want to play the victim. Vaccines should be mandated where they can. And mandating them as a condition of employment is one place where that can be done.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:56 pm:
- Nick -
It’s about terms of employment
If you can’t grasp that than maybe don’t worry about the fee-fees of state employees
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 12:58 pm:
=== I think Beth is raising a very interesting and good question — whether the Governor can require residents to be vaccinated broadly.===
I know the dorm rooms are full again, maybe leave this there.
That’s not what is at play or even being discussed.
- Beth - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 1:02 pm:
No ow
You’re not grasping
I’m not arguing or denying terms of employment concepts
I’m saying that if the vax is going to put an end to this
Pandemic
Then everyone should be required
Not just a very small % of one group
Everyone
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 1:04 pm:
- Beth -
The terms of employment is the issue
Again, Facebook, have at it.
- Fixer - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 1:08 pm:
Beth, you can say that until you’re blue in the face, but the reality of it is that he can and will mandate it for employees of agencies that are under his control. He cannot require it right now for citizens of the state. People seem to want to complain about government overreach a lot around this issue, and him doing that would be an example of such.
- Demoralized - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 1:09 pm:
==Everyone==
I’m pretty sure those of us that support the vaccine believe the same thing. But the way to do that is by making vaccination a condition of employment. That is the route you are going to have to take to get there.
- thisjustinagain - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 1:17 pm:
Re: Can there be forced vaccinations by government order? YES.
Jacobson v. Mass,, SCOTUS, 1905 (still valid law today). States may mandate vaccinations to stop epidemics (the case was about mandatory smallpox vaccination).
- Mandates are Good - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 1:18 pm:
OW, there has been a problem during the last 20 months of so of our governments not fully exercising the immense public health authorities at their disposal. One of those is quite clearly requiring population-wide vaccinations (with the obvious, limited, exceptions). It’s not a dorm-room debate — it’s life or death.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 1:23 pm:
=== One of those is quite clearly requiring population-wide vaccinations (with the obvious, limited, exceptions). It’s not a dorm-room debate — it’s life or death.===
It’s a global pandemic.
Unless nationally the United States decides on this action…
What can be done, here in Illinois, and is being done nationally, with the military, driven by employment… is the mandate where employment is predicated on vaccination…. Same with some universities…
The dorm room thinking… is superseding the employment mandate which is a strong first step.
- Grandson of Man - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 1:29 pm:
ICU beds are filling up. Workers and everyone should worry more about COVID overreach than government overreach.
- The Real Downstate - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 1:35 pm:
Really hope you asked AFSCME for a response to those two updates, Rich. Especially the sign in Dixon. Indefensible.
- The Real Downstate - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 1:36 pm:
Dwight, not Dixon.
- IllinoisBoi - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 1:44 pm:
“Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905), was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court upheld the authority of states to enforce compulsory vaccination laws. The Court’s decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.” There ya have it,folks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts
- Dotnonymous - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 1:48 pm:
“If they had a headache, instead of taking tylenol they would pray. Don’t know what they called the religion, but it probably has followers out there even today…” - HangingOn
I believe it’s called a dying religion?
- Honeybear - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 1:50 pm:
I know this is anecdotal but all the state workers in my local that I know have been vaccinated. I hate that the rural facilities and prisons have hijacked our union leadership.
- MountainDog - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 1:56 pm:
AFSCME member here. I called the AFSCME31 office this morning to see how I could voice my opposition to their ridiculous stance on vaccine mandates. Whoever answered my call claimed to have no idea about any sort of controversy, said she had no idea what I was talking about. I was then told I should contact my union steward, but they were unable to provide any names or contact info. I suspect there might be additional problems with AFSCME other than just leadership.
- Grandson of Man - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 1:59 pm:
Pritzker should not be too worried about right wing anti-vax elements in state government. There are many who support mandates and back the governor.
- Other Nick - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 1:59 pm:
Very bad look by AFSCME here, I’ll say that.
- Fixer - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 2:01 pm:
IllinoisBoi, “…states to enforce compulsory vaccination laws.” In this case, I think the argument has to be made that the legislature would have to be involved and make it a law first. I don’t think it would fly as an EO.
- Alice - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 2:06 pm:
Honeybear-
My office is in Chicago- I work with a lot of ppl from city and south suburbs. 6 out of 10 ppl in my group are not vaccinated and don’t want a mandate and don’t plan on getting vaccinated. The idea that this is all rural Illinois is not true.
A lot of workers who are WFH want to continue to WFH and feel a mandate will mean they go back to office. Now even with a vaccine we have seen break through cases so the mandate shouldn’t automatically mean you go back to office. But this is a much bigger issue then rural or republicans members.
- Real - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 2:08 pm:
wow you people in this comment board think everyone must be of one mind. Where do you come from? Not everyone wants it.
- JoanP - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 2:09 pm:
RE: Update #1 -
Fox Development Center serves people “with moderate to very high medical needs”. I take it some of the employees there really don’t care about the people they are supposed to be serving.
That’s just vile.
- Dotnonymous - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 2:11 pm:
Something I’ve observed over many years?…the loudest people in the room are generally the least informed…almost every single time…beware.
- Honeybear - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 2:13 pm:
Hanging on- Christian Scientists are the ones you’re thinking of.
- Dotnonymous - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 2:18 pm:
I would relish the opportunity to test some of these folks as to the specifics of the United States Constitution…for the truly hilarious and concurrently alarming results.
Teach your children well?
- JoanP - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 2:45 pm:
Nothing in the Christian Science religion bars its adherents from being vaccinated.
“Church members are free to make their own choices on all life-decisions, in obedience to the law, including whether or not to vaccinate their children.” See https://www.christianscience.com/press-room/a-christian-science-perspective-on-vaccination-and-public-health
- Steve Polite - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 2:53 pm:
“wow you people in this comment board think everyone must be of one mind. Where do you come from? Not everyone wants it.”
So what. Not everyone wanted to ban smoking indoors in public places either, but it was done for the greater public health good. Just like smoking impacted non-smokers’ health, non-vaccinated people sick with Covid infect children and others who can’t take the vaccine and vaccinated people. The other danger with people refusing to be vaccinated is the longer the virus continues to circulate, the greater the likelihood there will be a variant that is vaccine resistant. Then we are all at greater risk.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 2:55 pm:
=== Not everyone wants it.===
They can find another job.
Free country and all…
‘Merica
- Demoralized - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 2:56 pm:
==Not everyone wants it.==
Tough. I don’t care if everyone doesn’t want it. We need them to get it. If they don’t want it then let them find a job where they don’t have to get it. Simple solution.
- Honeybear - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 2:56 pm:
Joan I didn’t say they couldn’t get it. But they are the only religious group that I can think of that could claim a religious exemption.
- Joe Bidenopolous - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 3:08 pm:
AFSCME showed me who they are. They can try and walk it back til the cows come home, but I’ll always know which side they chose and I will never support them again.
State employees - go fair share (banned punctuation)
- Joe Bidenopolous - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 3:10 pm:
= Not everyone wants it.=
Then you don’t have to get it. But that freedom of choice doesn’t shield you from the consequences of your choice.
- DHS Drone - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 3:13 pm:
If COVID stayed with the alpha variant there was a chance that only 70-80% of us had to do the right thing and the rest could freeload off our efforts. Delta changes things. To get herd immunity off of delta will basically require something in the high 90’s for for immunity from vaccination, having the virus, or both. The longer we wait to hold every grown adults hand, who simply doesn’t want to do this, the more likely this virus will bang around the unvaxxed population to the point where it mutates into something that the vaccine is far less effective against. This is already starting to happen in other countries. So for the sake of our kids who are too young to be vaccinated, for the immunocompromised, and for everybody, just get vaxxed. Now. Not in a few months when you finally feel like you’ve read enough on facebook to make you comfortable. Right now.
- JoanP - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 3:57 pm:
@ Honeybear,
Interesting question, though. If your religion allows it, can you claim an exemption? I don’t know. But I guess we may find out.
Also - I have not seen you in the comments for a while. Don’t know if I just missed you or if you’ve been gone. But, either way, it’s nice to see you.
- Steve Polite - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 4:05 pm:
I feel like I’m involved in some epic struggle.
“J.B. Pritzker, years ago you served us (AFSCME) to bring an end to the Rauner Wars. Now I beg you to help us in the Vaccine struggle against AFSCME Leadership. In this time of need, we desperately cry out for a mandatory vaccine. Help us J.B. Pritzker. You’re our only hope.”
- MG85 - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 4:22 pm:
It’s so refreshing to see so many people who cheered when AFSCME took on Rauner and, quite successfully, beat him back with collective bargaining. So many hear sneered at how Rauner blatantly disregarded the right to collectively bargain.
It’s also telling how many of you keep encouraging members of AFSCME to go “fair share” not realizing that Rauner and jANUS made sure that no longer exists. Gone are the days of paying for representation. Now it’s all or nothing. You either pay full dues or no dues.
So now a labor union is put into a position where 10k plus members could walk out of their union over this issue and the union who represents them is doing exactly what it argued it would do in front of the Supreme Court: it’s taking a more extreme position given that lack of ground to convince members to come back from fair share.
But now you have folks like OW saying AFSCME isn’t a serious union for invoking it’s right to collectively bargain and to take union concerted activity.
All this shows is you all aren’t serious about the rights of workers because now you are on a different side of workers and instead of encouraging both sides to stay at the table, you are calling for workers to be crushed. You all should be embarrassed.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 5:12 pm:
=== But now you have folks like OW saying AFSCME isn’t a serious union for invoking it’s right to collectively bargain and to take union concerted activity.===
LOL
I’ll speak for myself, thank you.
“Organized labor was created for the protection, safety, welfare… and health… of members, collectively, and collectively being for each other.
This is not a union. I can’t take seriously an organized labor group that doesn’t see health as a want for its members or keeping them safe. Nope.”
If you can’t fully comprehend… what is being conveyed…
… maybe it’s you that’s confused to the origins and mission of a union.
- MyTwoCents - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 5:15 pm:
While I believe in the right to collectively bargain this is another example of that right being swung out of balance in Illinois. AFSCME is opposing something that many of their traditional allies support in favor of supporting union members who rarely, if ever, support the union politically. How many union Republicans are left and are IDOC members supporting pro-union Republicans?
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 5:17 pm:
- MG85 -
Lemme be even more crystal clear;
I can’t think back to a time at the height of union membership in this country where any organized labor organization would let employers put them in the way of a global virus without DEMANDING… full and complete protection for its workers, no matter the cost, and blame the employers that they aren’t doing enough.
They ain’t this.
Not even in a phony way this ain’t it.
- MG85 - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 5:21 pm:
Belonging to a union is about having a voice on the job. All those things you cited are important the reason people ever formed unions was to have a say.
Let them have their say and let the employer sit at the table and bargain.
You aren’t being helpful by demanding one side do one thing or calling names at the other.
I’ll say again. You either believe in collective bargaining or you don’t. It’s clear you only believe in workers’ having a voice when it echoes the thoughts in your own head. That doesn’t make you anything more than a Raunerite in different clothes.
- Grateful Gail - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 5:26 pm:
Testing regularly is not the answer. The staff at the developmental center have been testing every 3 days, and all it does it find those who are positive, and that helps, but by the time they are tested positive, they have put the residents in harm’s way, and the residents have to quarantine for 14 days, per IDPH. Terribly for our individuals to be isolated to their units and rooms for this long. GET THE VACCINE!!! 96% of the individuals at our center are vaccinated, and those who aren’t have a medical reason why they can’t be.
- Pundent - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 5:27 pm:
=All this shows is you all aren’t serious about the rights of workers because now you are on a different side of workers and instead of encouraging both sides to stay at the table, you are calling for workers to be crushed.=
Seems like the majority of AFSCME members are in favor of a vax mandate. I support those workers. If we have to pick a side, I’ll stand with the majority who prioritize the health and safety of their membership and the public they serve.
- Steve Polite - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 5:39 pm:
“But now you have folks like OW saying AFSCME isn’t a serious union for invoking it’s right to collectively bargain and to take union concerted activity.”
I’m a long time AFSCME member and state employee. I agree with OW on this. Health and safety, the greater good - is to support vaccine mandates. That is how we will all be healthier and safer in the workplace. This has nothing to do with collective bargaining.
AFSCME Council 31 has come out and said they are against mandatory vaccinations. I was told the same thing by my union rep. Now they are backpedaling. The State, as an employer, has the right to implement a vaccine mandate. AFSCME can’t bargain to stop it. Even AFSCME acknowledged this. They can only do impact (implementation) bargaining on the new policy.
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 5:44 pm:
===You either believe in collective bargaining or you don’t===
By law, AFSCME and the state are prohibited from bargaining over various things. So your all or nothing comment is ridiculously false.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 5:48 pm:
=== You aren’t being helpful by demanding one side do one thing or calling names at the other.===
No.
I’m reminding those, those in labor, all those times I stood with y’all… it’s this mandate that’s why I did it… because
I can’t take seriously an organized labor group that doesn’t see health as a want for its members or keeping them safe.
===It’s clear you only believe in workers’ having a voice when it echoes the thoughts in your own head.===
With great respect;
If your thought my points are on point… you can’t believe all you just wrote above.
Impossible to reconcile if you believe… as I believe.
- Alice - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 6:06 pm:
I talked to a number of coworkers today who will be opting out of union regardless of anything they say going forward. They really dropped the ball today.
- DHS Drone - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 6:53 pm:
You can believe in collective bargaining, yet still take issue with your union’s stance and strategy. Just like you can believe in democracy, yet still take issue with how your nation, state, city, county, ect… is governing. So while i totally disagree with those advocating dropping dues, I am extremely disappointed in how the union has gone about this. And that is my right as a member. As it is also my right to make it known on here and to them personally. As well as to inform and organize with my fellow likeminded members.
- Seats - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 7:21 pm:
Alice - What do people expect to gain by dropping out? I’m disappointed just like everyone here, but weakening the collective bargaining ability doesn’t seem like the smart play.
- Seats - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 7:23 pm:
It has been said a few times that JB doesn’t need the unions “permission” so what is the hold up? Is the desire to have the union on board just to avoid having to take all the arrows from the antivax crowd? If thats the only thing holding this up I hope he moves on without them and passes a mandate.
- The Eastern Block Strikes Again - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 8:35 pm:
= “The Pritzker Administration should now work collaboratively with our union to develop a similar flexible approach for state employees.”=
Oh. AFSCME. Instead of telling the administration to work with your union, maybe you should work harder to get your members vaccinated. No more excuses. Show leadership. Do it for Randy, the frontline healthcare workers that you represent and the taxpayers who pay your member’s salaries. Hospitals are at capacity and as of today are implementing internal disaster plans.
AFSCME is always criticizes the General Assembly and the Governor’s office (going back years) every time there are proposed budget cuts. Their message is usually: stop balancing the budget on the backs of middle class workers. Well, it’s AFSCME time to stop being self absorbed and to stop putting lives of the responsible state employees who got vaccinated at risk and placing hardships on the employees of bars, restaurants, grocery stores, and retail stores who have been hit hard as a result of people not taking this pandemic serious.
“AFSCME stand as one. Let’s vaccinate as one.” Honor the dying wish.
https://fb.watch/7DZhNXr_fH/
It’s time change. It’s for real leadership. It’s time to get vaccinated.
- James - Thursday, Aug 26, 21 @ 9:39 pm:
I have to agree with JoanP.
It’s good to hear from you again, Honeybear!
- Alice - Friday, Aug 27, 21 @ 8:45 am:
Seats-
One of the main concepts of a union was to make the working environment safe. Here is that chance- and they are against it. So if that is not one of the goals of the union anymore and it’s hard to argue that it is. What are we doing here? And more importantly what are we paying for? There has been very little communication or engagement. I think that has PO a lot of people.