32 Comments - Cannonball - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 2:02 pm: Love me some Bat but he’s got solutions in search of a problem. Mask them until they can get vaxxed. - Larry Bowa Jr. - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 2:05 pm: Don’t feel strongly either way about his 2nd idea, but the 1st is idiotic. We know this variant is extremely contagious before people show symptoms. I am getting daily emails from my kid’s school about positive cases in the school. The only reason the school hasn’t had large quarantines is because they are eating lunch outside. If they were eating inside, the close contacts would have been exponentially greater and dozens of kids would be quarantined, less than 2 weeks into the school year. Maybe after a year and a half of this we can let go of this childish impulse to pretend the world isn’t what it is. Batinick seems like one of the many who prioritizes “return normalcy” over safety. I don’t care at all about your visions of normalcy, your parties, your bars or your restaurants or your sports until children are vaccinated. - Common Sense - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 2:09 pm: Like the spirit of the idea. Would take some of the emotion out of decisions if we had a clear criteria for when it is safe to not wear a mask indoors, go to school, etc. Problem would be in determining the criteria especially if the sentiment of one group is that children should never be masked. Also things have a way of changing fast making it less likely we stick to one criteria. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 2:16 pm: I think this is a thoughtful, positive contribution and I hope IDPH and the Governor consider it fairly and on the merits. Good for Rep Batinick for putting it forward. - Always Learning - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 2:23 pm: This is the first I have heard that the WHO does not recommend masks ever for children under 6. I just confirmed now and this is true. I definitely thought mask use in children was recommended by all authoritative bodies. New information for me - From DaZoo - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 2:24 pm: I don’t have a problem with providing ideas. I’d like to see how this improves adherence to the measures and consistent enforcement. May want to poll the county health departments first. The “social emotional learning” got me thinking that this period of time may make for a good study on if kids and/or adults adjust to recognizing emotional expressions without seeing mouths. Just like a deaf person is bit more visually observant, does a person’s ability to pick up on other body language clues increase if they can’t see a person’s mouth? - Leslie K - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 2:26 pm: Measured, rational. The second idea makes sense–the actual positivity rate can probably vary significantly across a county, particularly Cook. I understand the first, but it seems like just playing with COVID (mask on, mask off, mask on, mask off), rather than really trying to tamp it down for good. Also, there are clear masks that the younger kids could wear for the facial expression issue. I haven’t really heard any discussion of that. - NotSoCivilEngineer - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 2:29 pm: Metric informed (not always rigidly followed to allow for the professional judgement of scientists) is a great goal. The trap is that when the science evolves and criteria change, it is too easy for pundits to blame politics or say that all science is wrong. Smaller regions may be a good idea, but you will never resolve all the edge cases. Illinois has way too many counties (a whole other problem). U-46 (biggest aside from CPS) is in 3 counties (DuPage, Kane, Cook). They have generally done a good job of making sure that policy follows the guidance of all 3 counties (most conservative wins). - Jibba - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 2:33 pm: The first idea is simply bad. The outrage when masks go back on will be intense and everyone will be “confused”. See previous reactions on this subject earlier this year. The second idea seems like just another way to find areas that can go back to “normal,” but only for a little while. Just do the sensible thing like mask and wax from now on. Don’t try to massage the data until you get the result you like. - JS Mill - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 2:39 pm: I actually like using county level metrics. There are districts that are in parts of 4 and 5 counties though, the student enrollment by county makes sense. The downside is that this would be very hard to govern. I give him credit for stepping up and offering something genuinely worthy of consideration. - cermak_rd - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 2:42 pm: I like the clear metrics idea. When rates are low we can take our masks off (if we want) when rates are increasing we put the masks back on. It might also act as an incentive to “clean your life up” right when society needs it (when rates are increasing). The counties thing, well, yeah, I remember in the winter Rosemont complaining that they were in a region with X and etc. We will never devolve the regions down enough for that not to make someone feel that it is unfair. Also people move between regions freely. And hospitals shuffle patients to the next unburdened hospital. Oh yes, as for emotional intelligence. I would think the place children learn that the most is in the home. Very few homes are masked within the home. At least the Rep gave it some thought. And his thoughtful answers deserve thoughtful consideration. - ;) - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 2:55 pm: I applaud Batnick for offering a constructive and thoughtful idea. Anything thoughtful is better than the back and forth, inconsistencies we have had to date. - Incandenza - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 3:02 pm: The problem with county level metrics is that this virus doesn’t care about borders. We all sink or swim together. There’s no localizing this. Local variation in mask and other mandates from the beginning have been THE reason for mass spread. - Retired and Still in Illinois - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 3:13 pm: “My advice then and still is that any mandate should be tied to reasonable metrics that people from all sides can agree upon.” Has he not been paying attention the last year and a half? It can’t even be agreed to buy “all” sides that covid is real. I will assume he is sincere with his letter but maybe a tad naive. - Pundent - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 3:29 pm: Reasoned recommendations should always be welcomed. But the reality is most people favor having kids wear masks particularly in the absence of an available vaccine. And those that are opposed to masks are generally not looking for reasonable compromise. So while I applaud Batnick looking for solutions, I’m not entirely certain that he understands the problem. - Enviro - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 3:33 pm: If we want to be rid of this pandemic, we must all wear a face mask and be vaccinated to prevent the spread of Covid-19. This includes the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. We do not know how many vaccinated people have had a breakthrough Covid-19 virus infection. Those numbers have not been kept separate from the unvaccinated. We really need to know this information. Meanwhile, the Covid-19 infection rate continues to increase at an alarming rate. - Moe Berg - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 3:40 pm: Rep. Batinick offers good-faith bad-faith as he plays the role of the “reasonable conservative.” Whatever the WHO guidance may be, the CDC’s guidance is universal masking for children over 12. You know, the *American* health agency. Why? Because this is an aersolized virus. Being non-sentient it doesn’t care about the ages of its hosts and a 4-year-old’s respiratory system is just as appealing a home as a 24-year-old’s. Masks provide some, if imperfect, protection. When it’s convenient to their claims though, today’s modern conservative becomes a multi-lateral internationalist. The problem throughout the pandemic has been the refusal of so many people to take this virus seriously and acting as if we know the long term implications, mortality and fiscally, for those who contract it. So, Batinick is trying to split hairs with his ifs and buts. Maybe it’s to try and appeal to the sensibilities of his swing district, which has a good mix of anti-vax/mask nuts and those who believe in science. To me, the best you can say for Batinick’s idea is that it’s trying to solve a political problem for him. The “tell” that this is the case: “…any mandate should be tied to reasonable metrics that people from all sides can agree upon.” Ah, yes, what do we think that reasonable metric is for the anti-vax/mask side of “both sides”? Despite the serious tone, Batinick’s proposal should not be taken seriously, but it should be rebutted as the nonsense it is by IDPH. - Moe Berg - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 3:59 pm: edit above, should be: universal masking for children older than 2 in school - Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 3:59 pm: First of all, kudos to Rep. Batnick for stepping up and offering an actual proposal. More please; this is much better than objections without alternative ideas. The idea of clear, publicized metrics is good, the trick is setting them…the imposition of masks and other measures probably needs to be pretty low (lower than an average person might like and earlier than the most recent round) if we want to be ahead of the virus. ==reasonable metrics that people from all sides can agree upon== won’t work (see many comments above), but reasonable metrics that health care professionals (with expertise in communicable diseases) can agree upon is an appropriate revision. Putting forth ideas like this is what we need as is a willingness to discuss and revise. - Frank talks - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 4:00 pm: I’m still for masking all kids. I get the Bat is trying to appease the loud, vocal, primarily GOP, anti-mask crowd. If changes to the mandate occur it goes back to earlier this month where people scream at school boards, fights occur and truthfully the anti mask folks will not believe the numbers anyway. - Unstable Genius - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 4:07 pm: Interesting facts regarding mask mandates at two large public universities. 268 covid cases in last 7 days at UofI UC WITH mask mandate. 34 covid cases in last 7 days at UofIowa WITHOUT mask mandate. Any comments about the effectiveness of masks? - JS Mill - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 4:31 pm: =Any comments about the effectiveness of masks?= Yes, they work to slow the spread of COVID 19 and other communicable diseases. Let me know if you need anything else. - Pundent - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 4:32 pm: =Any comments about the effectiveness of masks?= I leave the analysis of data to scientists not those using anecdotal information to prove a point. And the science consistently shows that stopping the spread of this virus through the use of masks (and vaccines) is good public health policy. - PublicServant - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 4:50 pm: Batinick’s idea - No. Keep it simple $tupid. Mask up until all students are fully vaccinated. - MyTwoCents - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 5:15 pm: Unstable Genius, what are the testing protocols for UIUC vs. Iowa? What’s the positivity percent for the 2 universities? For all we know you could be comparing apples to oranges, but let’s not let logic get in the way of scoring political points. I’ll go with the reams of scientific data on masks, but that’s just me. As for Batnick’s ideas, there’s certainly value in considering changing the size of the regions and it’s something that IDPH could look into. As for the masking, at this point there are 2 options for reducing the spread of COVID among children: 1) remote learning or 2) masks and social distancing. If you remove the masks requirement then you might as well go remote because COVID is spreading among children younger than 12. - Norseman - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 5:16 pm: Don’t think much of them. People complained about metrics being confusing before it’s not going to change now. Compliance is not going to improve based on metrics either. We’ve now seen the impact of variants so I say no more tinkering around. Take an aggressive approach. - MisterJayEm - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 5:19 pm: “What do you think of Rep. Batinick’s two ideas?” They seem to be an attempt to please people who won’t comply no matter how much we compromise. Simplicity is better in this case. – MrJM - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 5:24 pm: Kinda waited, watched (read), and pondered. To my thoughts, The more you try to micromanage a global pandemic to your own “neighborhood and neighbors” with no real opportunity to isolate one’s self to make things be more pointed, the more these ideas seem more restrictive if there’s honesty to the overall goal. I do appreciate Batinick’s attempt here. I’m not trying to wholly dismiss or pick apart pieces to what might not be to an overall safety conscious… but where I’m breaking from Batinick is I don’t view this as a virus so uniquely smart that it avoids imaginary boundaries or can divide by what kids go to which schools from specific counties. What I do like is that it is respectfully thoughtful, it’s premise is solution driven. Better than most folks out there just lobbing silliness. - Science - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 5:44 pm: The focus in the letter is masking and his focus on positivity rate to determine when to mask doesn’t hold up to the virus. What no one is saying is vaccination. This virus will spread indoors without masking regardless of positivity rate. The criteria needs to be vaccination. You must mask until 85% of the school on vaccinated AND no cases reported in school for two weeks. Grades 7-12 can do vaccination and get to 85% today. Grades with students under 12 have to mask until vaccination is available and you get to 85% vaccination. Without vaccination it’s all a waste to unmask because when you decide to unmask without vaccination you are waiting to decide when to have a outbreak. - Deep Dish - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 6:24 pm: The first idea is fatally flawed in that it takes a moderate (and reasonable) approach. There is, unfortunately, no room for moderation when it comes to masks and Covid mitigation measures. It’s an issue that has become hyperpolarized, so you need to decide which side to satisfy and which to tick off. This will make everyone unhappy. Our sorry state… - TheInvisibleMan - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 8:40 pm: I’ll bite. Point one; – making it easier for citizens to understand what they are doing and why they are doing it. – Wearing a mask is not a complicated task. No amount of metrics is going to appease those who still refuse to wear one, and those who already wear one have no serious issues with it where they are worried about the minutiae of the state mandates. Quite the opposite, and while only an anecdote I’ve found masks to be quite pleasant to wear in the winter(we used to just call the same thing scarves), and I’ve even started wearing them when mowing the lawn during the summer. Point two; – I live in Plainfield. Plainfield is partially in Will County and partially in Kendall County. – Irrelevant. The portion of plainfield in Kendall county is 100% single family homes. None of the state mandates impact what people can or can not do in their own homes, much less by what region they are in. I understand he is trying to use this example to support his larger point, but the example he chose is not a parallel to what he goes onto suggest as a solution. His idea of calculating metrics based on the immediate surrounding counties isn’t terrible in theory, but in practice this would more often than not lead to artificially lower metrics for the collar counties, which he just happens to live in and require votes from. I don’t see this as a real solution, but only an empty platitude dressed up as thoughtfulness. In total; I don’t see how any of his suggestions improve on the existing processes already in place. Perhaps if he included some hard data as examples, instead of using non-applicable examples, I could be swayed. What he has presented makes for a nice entry on a the political blog for his campaign site, but not much else. - Pundent - Thursday, Sep 2, 21 @ 10:59 pm: The problem with the so called moderate approach is that it’s predicated on a certain number of people become very sick or dying before action is taking. That’s not how you defeat a pandemic. And what number of infected kids would Batinick deem acceptable. We’ve already seen in Crown Point how quickly this can spiral out of control. The virus is still in charge. Wearing masks is the very least we can do. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.