Disagree. States are sovereign, like their own countries, bound together in a federal union. States create cities, counties and other units of government, not vice versa. The state can create these entities because states are sovereign. This is foundational in understanding American government and the US Constitution.
It’s also a concept that is covered on the 8th grade constitution test, so he really needs to get a better handle on this stuff.
In Connecticut, counties don’t exist. You must be a citizen of a city. Connecticut is literally a “collection of cities”. Illinois, not so much. I don’t live in a city. I guess Mayor Irvin won’t be a Governor for me. Only city dwellers.
===It’s pretty funny that Irvin clearly is a collar county guy who keeps trying to pretend he’s a downstater. I don’t get the purpose of this candidacy.===
Mayor Irvin is probably as baffled by Candidate Irvin. You’d have to think Mayor Irvin is scratching his head every time he needs to be Candidate Irvin for someone or another.
To the QOTD?
It has a “Michael Scott type explaining”
It’s a “6-year old” logic that gets to ignore the adult realities of what constitutes governing.
As a throwaway discussion to “a mayor to governor leap”, I mean, “ok, sure” if the intent to make others queasy about a mayor to governor leap or even a discussion to “we’re all kind of the same even if there’s no way that a state and city are similar”…?
I disagree. As others have stated, seems to be in direct conflict with the ilgop as a champion of the forgotten rural Illinois. Who knew their own party forgot them?
Do I agree? God no! That belief should be disqualifying in and of itself. State governments organize collectives, but the sum of the collectives is not the same as the totality.
People who would make such and argument would represent an upper limit of government that represents the least possible. “No city shall be more than the least among cities; no city shall be compelled to share its bounty with any other.”
This believe is beyond conservatism. It is anarchy.
““All a state is is a number of cities, just like the city of Aurora,” he said.”
He most likely misspoke from his not fully understanding.
This guy is trying so very hard to be what “the program” calls for to win the GOP gubernatorial primary that he is distancing himself from himself. He doesn’t get it that he cannot swing so far crazy right and then voters: collars, downstate urban, and Chicago will forget his wild way right swing should he manage to best Bailey in the primary. Sad to allow “self” to be so used.
From the puff piece: “He would go on raids with police and stand by the side of law enforcement as they arrested gang members and drug dealers and shut down drug houses.”
To the post, I disagree. As noted above, states are sovereign entities and the vast majority of its land area is not in a municipality of any kind.
I would be interested in watching Irvin debate himself.
Taking the commentariat’s belief that the mention of “cities” will somehow upsetting the people of the City of Nason, Jefferson County, Illinois (pop 236), Irvin’s remark shows an absolutely clueless view of how the State of Illinois is structured versus how our various municipalities are structured and the respective scopes of their powers/responsibilities.
So… as a rural resident who’s only city affiliate is a line in my address… how do I fit into Mr. Irvin’s definition??? Lots of ‘unincorporated” folks in Illinois. Very elitist to say that only cities and their residents seem to count. I thought he was going to “ride” around Illinois. Maybe he should put some of the places listed on this site on his itinerary. You’ll get to see a LOT of the state you probably didn’t even dream existed. Might just expand a limited “horizon”.
He’s wrong for a lot of reasons, but it’s kind of a fun thought experiment to play it out as though he’s correct.
If states aren’t sovereign governments that charter and regulate municipalities, then the state’s municipal incorporation statutes are unenforceable. If cities create states instead of vice versa, then who creates cities? It would have to be the people directly I guess. We’d get a bizarre wild west situation where anyone could incorporate as their own city.
And how would it affect existing municipalities? Every one would get home rule on steroids. If cities are sovereign, they could impose income taxes, freely join other states, or even raise their own National Guards. Not sure that’s what Irvin meant to endorse.
It’s a fun thing to roast, and Irvin clearly doesn’t yet understand how many Republican primary voters live in unincorporated communities. But I do think he was trying to communicate something more like “cities are subdivisions of states” than “states draw their existence from the cities within.” But part of the problem with the campaign he’s running is the room he leaves for his opponents to define him. If he had regular press conferences he could clean up quotes like this, but instead he’s choosing to go back under a rock. We’ll see if it works I guess.
In ontology, the concept of emergent properties essentially says that if a group of things together display properties that the things individually lack, then the group is substantially different from the things individually and thus the group is its own, different thing.
Given that all these cities (plus villages, counties, townships, etc) put together to make Illinois and Illinois has emergent properties that the cities lack, no, gotta disagree with Irvin. A state is definitely more than just a number of cities.
It may have come across as a bit awkward, but I sort of agree. A good mayor will likely make a good Governor. Units of government that are closest to the people like mayors are often the least corrupt ( with exception of course).
When you read it in context it makes more sense. The next thing he says (referring to public safety) after this is:
“So if we can do it here, we can do it everywhere throughout the state and improve the entire state and make the whole state safe.”
The others commenters are completely correct if you look at just this one sentence in isolation. But when you put it in context, what he’s saying makes sense. Governors use similar logic all the time when they run for President (look what my policies did for my state, these policies can do the same thing for our country). Note that I’m not saying I agree or disagree that he can actually make the state safer, just saying that his statement makes sense in context.
Sure, demographically, the vast majority of Illinoisans live in cities. But there’s still a sizable chunk who live in spaces between cities, whose closest level of local government is the township board and the county, and whose problems are dramatically different from Aurora’s.
And they’re ovewhelmingly Republican, which is not great for Irvin’s campaign.
June 28 is approaching very soon. With comments like this, when does he plan on picking up the pace with the backing and bankroll he has? Next week is mid-April, not sure how some tv ads are going to put him over the finish line.
“All a state is is a number of cities, just like the city of Aurora,” he said. “So if we can do it here, we can do it everywhere throughout the state and improve the entire state and make the whole state safe.”
Quipped says that everyone is taking the quote out of context. So here is the entire paragraph from the story.
Attempting to apply what ever irvin is doing to other municipalities ignored the unique situations of each community. It is unlikely that anything from Aurora will work in Chicago. Won’t apply to some place like Toluca. And would be impossible to use in Bigneck. (Thank you Anon221 for your list.)
- Bruce( no not him) - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 4:04 pm:
All politics are local.
Something like 75% of the states population is north of I80, but don’t forget the rest of us.
Golly he’s right….’cept dem cities are all spread out. Not connected. Thanks ‘Riffie & RichieRich for ’splainin’ that to us.
We thought the dream team been tasked to find someone to calm the nervous in the ‘burbs not do Jim Nabors imitations?
== A good mayor will likely make a good Governor.==
I don’t think we can say that with any certainty, tho obviously we’ll try to if we’re big fans of Irvin. But the fact of the matter is that The goals and mechanisms of a city and a mayor are far different than those of the state/Governor. For example, the Governor rarely has to worry about zoning, and a mayor rarely has to worry about Medicaid. Mayors often preside over their city councils, while the Governor has basically no formal role in the general assembly. Some skills translate- probably communication skills, most obviously. But charisma alone doesn’t make a good Governor.
It was a self-serving statement on Irvin’s part- which, of course, he’s a candidate. But the rest of us needn’t pretend that it stands up to very much scrutiny.
- Blue Gal in a Red County - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 4:49 pm:
Anon221 and Huh?
Yep, I have a city (really a small town) on my address. But, I don’t live within any city limits. True that most IL population is in cities. But, if Irvin wants to win, he needs to remember an important part of the GOP base that doesn’t live in cities just like Aurora.
==Units of government that are closest to the people like mayors are often the least corrupt==
This is also a very silly statement. What does “closest to the people” mean? Mayors, aldermen, state lawmakers, governors, they’re all directly elected by the people. Layers of staff/interaction with the public varies wildly from person to person. And what happens when someone tries to transition from one unit of government to another- as, well, Irvin is trying to do? Do you lose some virtue in the transition? If so, shouldn’t we be worried about Irvin? Can we question his motives that he wants to move into a position that is apparently more remote and more prone to corruption? Is Irvin’s virtue in danger?
(Maybe not, given the pay-to-play reports coming out of Aurora.)
I also don’t think it’s even factually accurate that mayors are by and large relatively less corrupt. Now, I know you tried to hand wave this with “some exceptions”, but the Daleys, Rahm, Betty Maltese, Nick Blase, Eric Kellog, Louis Presta…that’s a lot of exceptions. And that list is almost all from Chicago and the suburbs. There’s just as much self-dealing in tiny downstate towns, but there’s far less scrutiny because they’re so far from the media center.
- New Day - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 1:53 pm:
Seems a bit tone deaf for Republicans who fancy themselves as champions of rural folk and always critical of city folk.
- Wonky Tonk - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 1:56 pm:
That quote will look good in Baileys next mailer.
- Candy Dogood - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 1:56 pm:
A state literally gets to decide whether or not cities exist and how they exist. Has this attorney never heard of the Dillon Rule?
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 1:57 pm:
Disagree. States are sovereign, like their own countries, bound together in a federal union. States create cities, counties and other units of government, not vice versa. The state can create these entities because states are sovereign. This is foundational in understanding American government and the US Constitution.
It’s also a concept that is covered on the 8th grade constitution test, so he really needs to get a better handle on this stuff.
- 47th Ward Friend - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 1:59 pm:
It’s pretty funny that Irvin clearly is a collar county guy who keeps trying to pretend he’s a downstater. I don’t get the purpose of this candidacy.
- Cardinal Fan - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:01 pm:
Wow . . . what a dumb thing to say. This will be great in a Bailey campaign ad.
- Amalia - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:01 pm:
way to hand Democrats a way to engage rural folks.
- Anti-Clowns - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:02 pm:
In Connecticut, counties don’t exist. You must be a citizen of a city. Connecticut is literally a “collection of cities”. Illinois, not so much. I don’t live in a city. I guess Mayor Irvin won’t be a Governor for me. Only city dwellers.
- ChrisB - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:03 pm:
Not that much different from how the US viewed itself pre-Bill of Rights. Or to a lesser extent, pre-Civil War. Very different now though.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:06 pm:
===It’s pretty funny that Irvin clearly is a collar county guy who keeps trying to pretend he’s a downstater. I don’t get the purpose of this candidacy.===
Mayor Irvin is probably as baffled by Candidate Irvin. You’d have to think Mayor Irvin is scratching his head every time he needs to be Candidate Irvin for someone or another.
To the QOTD?
It has a “Michael Scott type explaining”
It’s a “6-year old” logic that gets to ignore the adult realities of what constitutes governing.
As a throwaway discussion to “a mayor to governor leap”, I mean, “ok, sure” if the intent to make others queasy about a mayor to governor leap or even a discussion to “we’re all kind of the same even if there’s no way that a state and city are similar”…?
Now cut to Pam and Jim teasing Dwight.
I’m pretty sure I disagree
- Henry Francis - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:07 pm:
Irvin is such an ignorant candidate.
He should have said that all a state is is a collection of counties, and 100 of the 102 counties want someone other than Pritzker.
- TheInvisibleMan - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:08 pm:
As much as I hated to do it, I had to click through to see if there was any additional context.
I was immediately confirmed in my hesitation by the title of that story, and stopped reading.
- MisterJayEm - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:08 pm:
“All a state is is a number of cities, just like the city of Aurora”
Irvin to Downstate: Drop Dead
– MrJM
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:08 pm:
I disagree. As others have stated, seems to be in direct conflict with the ilgop as a champion of the forgotten rural Illinois. Who knew their own party forgot them?
- Nick Name - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:10 pm:
Farmers might disagree?
- PublicServant - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:14 pm:
Did he clear that statement with Grif and Z?
- H-W - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:14 pm:
Do I agree? God no! That belief should be disqualifying in and of itself. State governments organize collectives, but the sum of the collectives is not the same as the totality.
People who would make such and argument would represent an upper limit of government that represents the least possible. “No city shall be more than the least among cities; no city shall be compelled to share its bounty with any other.”
This believe is beyond conservatism. It is anarchy.
- Sir Reel - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:23 pm:
But, but Irvin’s a mayor of a city therefore he’s fully qualified to be Governor, or some such logic like that.
- Leslie K - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:23 pm:
Um, no. Just no.
- B-Hills 60010 - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:30 pm:
““All a state is is a number of cities, just like the city of Aurora,” he said.”
He most likely misspoke from his not fully understanding.
This guy is trying so very hard to be what “the program” calls for to win the GOP gubernatorial primary that he is distancing himself from himself. He doesn’t get it that he cannot swing so far crazy right and then voters: collars, downstate urban, and Chicago will forget his wild way right swing should he manage to best Bailey in the primary. Sad to allow “self” to be so used.
- Wensicia - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:33 pm:
I’m waiting for the follow-up after he’s told to explain this quote.
- Norseman - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:34 pm:
Irvin needs to watch Green Acres and hear OWD’s speech on farming.
What a silly thing for a GOP candidate to say given the overwhelming rural base of the party.
- SubRosa - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:34 pm:
So much for the downstate and unincorporated voters …
- Vote Quimby - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:39 pm:
From the puff piece: “He would go on raids with police and stand by the side of law enforcement as they arrested gang members and drug dealers and shut down drug houses.”
To the post, I disagree. As noted above, states are sovereign entities and the vast majority of its land area is not in a municipality of any kind.
I would be interested in watching Irvin debate himself.
- A Guy - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:40 pm:
May have been quoted at the tail end of an IML Conference…
Every Mayor and nearly every municipal elected official I’ve ever encountered thought this.
- Cheryl44 - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:43 pm:
What?
- Nuke The Whales - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:45 pm:
Taking the commentariat’s belief that the mention of “cities” will somehow upsetting the people of the City of Nason, Jefferson County, Illinois (pop 236), Irvin’s remark shows an absolutely clueless view of how the State of Illinois is structured versus how our various municipalities are structured and the respective scopes of their powers/responsibilities.
- Anon221 - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:47 pm:
So… as a rural resident who’s only city affiliate is a line in my address… how do I fit into Mr. Irvin’s definition??? Lots of ‘unincorporated” folks in Illinois. Very elitist to say that only cities and their residents seem to count. I thought he was going to “ride” around Illinois. Maybe he should put some of the places listed on this site on his itinerary. You’ll get to see a LOT of the state you probably didn’t even dream existed. Might just expand a limited “horizon”.
https://kids.kiddle.co/List_of_unincorporated_communities_in_Illinois
- vern - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:51 pm:
He’s wrong for a lot of reasons, but it’s kind of a fun thought experiment to play it out as though he’s correct.
If states aren’t sovereign governments that charter and regulate municipalities, then the state’s municipal incorporation statutes are unenforceable. If cities create states instead of vice versa, then who creates cities? It would have to be the people directly I guess. We’d get a bizarre wild west situation where anyone could incorporate as their own city.
And how would it affect existing municipalities? Every one would get home rule on steroids. If cities are sovereign, they could impose income taxes, freely join other states, or even raise their own National Guards. Not sure that’s what Irvin meant to endorse.
It’s a fun thing to roast, and Irvin clearly doesn’t yet understand how many Republican primary voters live in unincorporated communities. But I do think he was trying to communicate something more like “cities are subdivisions of states” than “states draw their existence from the cities within.” But part of the problem with the campaign he’s running is the room he leaves for his opponents to define him. If he had regular press conferences he could clean up quotes like this, but instead he’s choosing to go back under a rock. We’ll see if it works I guess.
- AlfondoGonz - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:53 pm:
No. You’d think the mayor of Aurora, a city that resides in 4 counties, would understand as much.
- Techie - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:54 pm:
In ontology, the concept of emergent properties essentially says that if a group of things together display properties that the things individually lack, then the group is substantially different from the things individually and thus the group is its own, different thing.
Given that all these cities (plus villages, counties, townships, etc) put together to make Illinois and Illinois has emergent properties that the cities lack, no, gotta disagree with Irvin. A state is definitely more than just a number of cities.
- Donnie Elgin - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 2:57 pm:
It may have come across as a bit awkward, but I sort of agree. A good mayor will likely make a good Governor. Units of government that are closest to the people like mayors are often the least corrupt ( with exception of course).
- Guy - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 3:08 pm:
That’s a direct Richard Porter quote.
- Loop Lady - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 3:12 pm:
Nope. Aurora is a medium sized city that has very little in common with a small town like Sesser.
One size solutions do not fit all.
He comes off in his ads as a know it all, and that is a turn off foe me.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 3:13 pm:
===Aurora is a medium sized city===
It’s also Illinois’ second largest city.
- Occasional Quipper - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 3:16 pm:
When you read it in context it makes more sense. The next thing he says (referring to public safety) after this is:
“So if we can do it here, we can do it everywhere throughout the state and improve the entire state and make the whole state safe.”
The others commenters are completely correct if you look at just this one sentence in isolation. But when you put it in context, what he’s saying makes sense. Governors use similar logic all the time when they run for President (look what my policies did for my state, these policies can do the same thing for our country). Note that I’m not saying I agree or disagree that he can actually make the state safer, just saying that his statement makes sense in context.
- Montrose - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 3:16 pm:
Tell me you don’t understand the job of the Governor without telling me you don’t understand the job of the Governor.
- Benjamin - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 3:19 pm:
Sure, demographically, the vast majority of Illinoisans live in cities. But there’s still a sizable chunk who live in spaces between cities, whose closest level of local government is the township board and the county, and whose problems are dramatically different from Aurora’s.
And they’re ovewhelmingly Republican, which is not great for Irvin’s campaign.
- Flying Elvis'-Utah Chapter - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 3:26 pm:
…and a donut with no holes is a bagel.
- Give Us Barabbas - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 3:32 pm:
That’s not going to play well in Lincoln County.
- Flying Elvis'-Utah Chapter - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 3:47 pm:
For the “out of context commenters”-
What voters south of I 64 just heard was “you don’t matter”.
Context be buggered.
- Huh? - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 3:48 pm:
“So… as a rural resident who’s only city affiliate is a line in my address for the convenience of the postal delivery …”
Fixed it for ya.
To the post
This guy needs to get out more.
Regardless of context, it is a tone deaf statement that ignores the rural voters.
- Vote Quimby - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 3:49 pm:
==mayors are often the least corrupt==
Ummmmm… have you met many mayors?
- Baloneymous - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 3:50 pm:
June 28 is approaching very soon. With comments like this, when does he plan on picking up the pace with the backing and bankroll he has? Next week is mid-April, not sure how some tv ads are going to put him over the finish line.
- Lt Guv - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 3:51 pm:
In the immortal words of the sage, Bugs Bunny, “What a maroon (banned punctuation here)”
- Huh? - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 4:01 pm:
“All a state is is a number of cities, just like the city of Aurora,” he said. “So if we can do it here, we can do it everywhere throughout the state and improve the entire state and make the whole state safe.”
Quipped says that everyone is taking the quote out of context. So here is the entire paragraph from the story.
Attempting to apply what ever irvin is doing to other municipalities ignored the unique situations of each community. It is unlikely that anything from Aurora will work in Chicago. Won’t apply to some place like Toluca. And would be impossible to use in Bigneck. (Thank you Anon221 for your list.)
- Bruce( no not him) - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 4:04 pm:
All politics are local.
Something like 75% of the states population is north of I80, but don’t forget the rest of us.
- Annonin' - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 4:11 pm:
Golly he’s right….’cept dem cities are all spread out. Not connected. Thanks ‘Riffie & RichieRich for ’splainin’ that to us.
We thought the dream team been tasked to find someone to calm the nervous in the ‘burbs not do Jim Nabors imitations?
- Arsenal - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 4:15 pm:
== A good mayor will likely make a good Governor.==
I don’t think we can say that with any certainty, tho obviously we’ll try to if we’re big fans of Irvin. But the fact of the matter is that The goals and mechanisms of a city and a mayor are far different than those of the state/Governor. For example, the Governor rarely has to worry about zoning, and a mayor rarely has to worry about Medicaid. Mayors often preside over their city councils, while the Governor has basically no formal role in the general assembly. Some skills translate- probably communication skills, most obviously. But charisma alone doesn’t make a good Governor.
It was a self-serving statement on Irvin’s part- which, of course, he’s a candidate. But the rest of us needn’t pretend that it stands up to very much scrutiny.
- Blue Gal in a Red County - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 4:49 pm:
Anon221 and Huh?
Yep, I have a city (really a small town) on my address. But, I don’t live within any city limits. True that most IL population is in cities. But, if Irvin wants to win, he needs to remember an important part of the GOP base that doesn’t live in cities just like Aurora.
- Arsenal - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 4:57 pm:
==Units of government that are closest to the people like mayors are often the least corrupt==
This is also a very silly statement. What does “closest to the people” mean? Mayors, aldermen, state lawmakers, governors, they’re all directly elected by the people. Layers of staff/interaction with the public varies wildly from person to person. And what happens when someone tries to transition from one unit of government to another- as, well, Irvin is trying to do? Do you lose some virtue in the transition? If so, shouldn’t we be worried about Irvin? Can we question his motives that he wants to move into a position that is apparently more remote and more prone to corruption? Is Irvin’s virtue in danger?
(Maybe not, given the pay-to-play reports coming out of Aurora.)
I also don’t think it’s even factually accurate that mayors are by and large relatively less corrupt. Now, I know you tried to hand wave this with “some exceptions”, but the Daleys, Rahm, Betty Maltese, Nick Blase, Eric Kellog, Louis Presta…that’s a lot of exceptions. And that list is almost all from Chicago and the suburbs. There’s just as much self-dealing in tiny downstate towns, but there’s far less scrutiny because they’re so far from the media center.
- Al - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 5:00 pm:
There are no adults running for governor. Waiting for a useful productive idea from the governor or any of the candidates.
- Thomas Paine - Wednesday, Apr 6, 22 @ 5:27 pm:
Raise your hand anyone, I mean anyone, if you think your mayor is ready to be governor.
This is the worst argument ever.
It also reminds everyone that Irvin is a political insider, and when you are running in the GOP primary it is better to be a political outsider.
Team Irvin does not understand their own electorate.