134 Comments - City Zen - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:15 am: Yeah, brainiacs, grab a test tube, do that computer thingy, and solve the pension problem. - Ducky LaMoore - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:15 am: “Nobody wants to talk about it instead. Well, anyway, I’ll stop there.” Darren Bailey is one of the greatest accidental comedians ever. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:15 am: Attacking foreign students. There’s the nationalism of the MAGA movement. Attacking the university president’s salary. Bailey might want to take a look at what other major university presidents make. Asking them to come up with pension solutions. Not sure what “solution” he wants but they aren’t going to magically get around the state constitution with their answer. Bailey - once again - proving he is not a serious candidate. - Blue Dog - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:17 am: Won’t be nearly enough, but Bailey is somewhat correct on this issue. - Ok - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:20 am: “We have serious problems to solve, and we need serious people to solve them. Whatever your particular problem is, I promise you, Bob Rumson is not the least bit interested in solving it. He is interested in two things and two things only: Making you afraid of it, and telling you who’s to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections.” - Jerry - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:20 am: “Woke” is a Conservative Rorschach Marketing slogan. - TheInvisibleMan - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:20 am: –they should be front and center with many of these advances and with our economy.– He says, on an internet device that is streamed to people all around the state with ease. For a supposed farmer, Darren has a really hard time with long term plans and their timelines for outcomes. - Ron Burgundy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:21 am: Darren Bailey serving up the word salad. Does that make him sound in any way qualified to evaluate the state’s premier university system? His idea of “challenging” it would ruin it. - So_Ill - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:22 am: Pritzker should attack him for not being educated the same way he attacks him about not being a farmer. It’s clear he knows absolutely nothing about higher education. - Sterling - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:22 am: If your kid can’t get into U of I, there’s no shame in going to one of the directional schools, also supported by Illinois taxpayers. - Larry Bowa Jr. - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:24 am: “parents who are frustrated because they can’t get their children enrolled at the U of I.” Sounds like these snowflakes are asking for a gift from the government. Nothing big, just guaranteed acceptance to the crown jewel of the state university system for their average and below average kids. No thanks, as a graduate I can tell you U of I still has plenty of dummies, we don’t need to make extra space for the kids of all the downstate car dealers Darren is talking to who finished 18th in a class of 40 and think U of I should throw its doors open for them. Give me a break man. - Benniefly2 - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:25 am: “Come up with a pension solution” Pay what is owed both contractually and constitutionally. Solved, or is paying bills now considered to be ‘Woke’ in the GOP these days? - Michelle Flaherty - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:26 am: Yeah, the U of I really hasn’t been challenged lately. The U of I created the SHIELD covid test so you didn’t have to get a brain tickler anymore and got your results in hours, not days. That’s the benefit of having a world-class research university in your backyard. It’s great how this guy takes the one public university in Illinois that doesn’t really have a problem and tries to create a problem for it. Is he next going to call for bringing back football at University of Chicago because he’s heard some students and their families aren’t getting the full college experience? - Confused - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:26 am: @Blue Dog On which part?? - Ron Burgundy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:26 am: -If your kid can’t get into U of I- That’s the thing. Some of the parents I know whose kids went out of state could have gone to U of I, but they couldn’t go in their preferred major because space is necessarily limited. They can’t enroll 3,000 students in Computer Science, for one example. I know of one student with stellar credentials who didn’t get into that program and their fallback school was… Harvard. - Amalia - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:27 am: Hey, I didn’t hear him say to cut the salary of U of I’s football coach did he? but cut the million dollar (if that is correct) salary of the leader of the entire educational institution, that’s a solution. Impress me when you say cut the salary of a man who leads a team with 85 scholarships with maybe a team size of 110. - Needs Deleted - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:27 am: People crying because they can’t get into U of I? Talk about first world problems. Last I checked there were still openings at Western and Carbondale. - MisterJayEm - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:28 am: Once again, I think we’re all indebted to Darren Bailey for clearly stating what needed to be said. I’m particularly glad that these lovely children were here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed a courage little seen in this day and age… – MrJM - Blue Dog - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:28 am: Got to love that higher education slogan. These folks truly are smart. They can charge as much as they want, market that unbelievable jobs await the graduates by the dozens and lastly have the Feds bail out the unfortunate. Now that is brilliance. - NickNombre - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:29 am: Higher education has a lot of issues, but someone with no real solutions other than “be more efficient” and stop paying the president so much is probably not the person to fix them. With regard to pensions, the answers aren’t complicated. The state has a debt that they are constitutionally required to pay. They have a plan that pays that debt that isn’t actually too painful given the circumstances. The last time I checked, the U of I didn’t employ wizards who know how to make magic beans, so I’m not sure what help they can provide. - Pundent - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:30 am: I try to give Bailey the benefit of the doubt by considering each of his sentences on its own merits and conclusions. But even in doing that I can’t make heads or tails of anything that he’s saying. There’s no “policy” being advanced here. It’s just a bunch of triggering words that only his followers will nod in agreement to. So no, Bailey isn’t “correct” on anything he’s saying here. But more importantly, if yesterday’s poll numbers are to be believed how does any of this move the needle in a positive direction for Darren Bailey? For the sake of the ILGOP as a whole they should concede the governors race and focus their attention down ballot. They’re just digging a deeper hole to climb out of at this point. - vern - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:30 am: Surprised Bailey didn’t just go all in and say “Suburban Express was a victim of the woke mob” or whatever. ===There’s absolutely no reason that the president of the college should be making a million dollars. That is a public service, there is no reason, there is no excuse for that.=== Weird that Bailey mentioned the president’s million dollar salary but not the football coach’s 4 million dollar salary. There’s a lot more money hiding under the athletic department couch than there is anywhere else. - South side cubs fan - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:30 am: Bailey isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he makes *some* valid points about UofI. Last I read, nearly 10% of the freshman class was from China, and meanwhile there are very smart and deserving kids who cannot get into certain programs. So, yeah, UofI needs some major overhauling … but Bailey isn’t up for that job … or any other. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:32 am: ===Sounds like these snowflakes are asking for a gift from the government. Nothing big, just guaranteed acceptance to the crown jewel of the state university system for their average and below average kids.=== That’s quite the leap. If the goal of the exercise is to have foreign or out of state students pay for what the state refuses, the reality, as in life, there are limits. ===stellar credentials who didn’t get into that program and their fallback school was… Harvard.=== There are students who know the sheer cost of UIUC is not worth applying as other universities are throwing money at Illinois “Top 10%” Bailey needs to answer… * How do you pay for this change of ratio? * How do you make UIUC more accessible in monies for scholastic merit The rest, is indeed, pandering to folks likely not grasping what UIUC is. - Ron Burgundy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:32 am: -Once again, I think we’re all indebted to Darren Bailey for clearly stating what needed to be said. I’m particularly glad that these lovely children were here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed a courage little seen in this day and age…- MrJM Johnson is absolutely right. - Cool Papa Bell - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:33 am: =Our own students because of our own tax money that supports this school aren’t able to go to this school= Our own tax dollars fund crop insurance and export programs to ship commodity crops and meat all over the globe. Why are we sending our farmers hard earned crops to other places to feed those people when food is way more expensive here than it was 2 years ago? Why does our government allow that? I don’t believe that but it makes about as much sense as doing what we can to keep the best and brightest from coming to our state for an education. =The U of I has got to be challenged to become the great school that it’s intended to be.= US News Ranks the U of I as the 15th best public university in the county. Bailey should answer to all the damage that was done to the U of I and all higher ed during the Rauner years. The number of professors and researchers that left the College of ACES was staggering. They were in high demand and saw what a mess state funding was and took off for Minnesota, Iowa State, Purdue and Kentucky to name a few. - City Zen - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:33 am: Bailey should consider higher education as an export, like soybeans. Students around the world want to buy what UIUC is selling. That’s a good thing. Now price the product appropriately. Reduce the number of international slots, create some scarcity, then increase the price. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:34 am: ===Last I checked there were still openings at…=== Iowa, Iowa State, Mizzou, Kentucky, Alabama, Tennessee, Wisconsin and all the Wisconsin satellites… Keep up. - TheInvisibleMan - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:36 am: –meanwhile there are very smart and deserving kids who cannot get into certain programs.– Competition is rough, isn’t it. You’re on a bigger stage now. Those supposedly smart kids just have to be smarter than those ‘foreign kids’, and there’s no problem. Telling yourself how smart and deserving your kids are only goes so far. If being exposed to the rest of the world shatters that illusion, the problem was the illusion, not the situation that shattered it. - Dotnonymous - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:37 am: Let Bailey talk…the more he talks the better…can’t wait for the debates. I’ll bet a cup of coffee Bailey knows the idiom, “Shooting fish in a barrel”. - Dysfunction Junction - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:37 am: =Our own students because of our own tax money that supports this school aren’t able to go to this school.= That’s weird. *I’m* an Illinois taxpayer and my child was able to go there, as did the majority of his high school classmates. Of course, they went to IMSA and most got 34 or higher on their ACTs. What students is Darren talking about? Does he think lowering the admission standards is the answer? Doesn’t sound like the Republican party I remember. - Juice - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:38 am: “We have got to start thinking of government just exactly like we think of it with our businesses.” By restricting who we are willing to sell our services to, and not selling to the highest paying customers? I am open to talking about making our universities more accessible to Illinois residents (ideally without making it less attractive to our of state and foreign students). But what he is proposing is real dumb “business”. - Blue Dog - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:38 am: This would be a great place to use some of that gigantic big 10 tv contract just signed. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:38 am: ==Bailey is somewhat correct on this issue. == Only somewhat, and less so every time he opens his mouth. “If we can’t afford it, we don’t do it.” is exactly the reason to NOT mandate higher instate enrollment. And the reason for the university president’s salary is that that is the market rate for such talent. Funny, tho, that it all comes back to demanding that someone else takes a pay cut. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:39 am: ===Telling yourself how smart and deserving your kids are only goes so far=== I blame participation trophies. /s - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:40 am: ===Does he think lowering the admission standards is the answer? === They’ve done that already. - Blue Dog - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:41 am: Can anyone validate the 10% China comment. - OneMan - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:41 am: == “parents who are frustrated because they can’t get their children enrolled at the U of I.” Sounds like these snowflakes are asking for a gift from the government. Nothing big, just guaranteed acceptance to the crown jewel of the state university system for their average and below average kids. No thanks, as a graduate I can tell you U of I still has plenty of dummies, we don’t need to make extra space for the kids of all the downstate car dealers Darren is talking to who finished 18th in a class of 40 and think U of I should throw its doors open for them. Give me a break man. == My kid had a 30 something on his ACT, drove a robot at the national robotics championship, top 10% in his class and member of the Mandarin honor society and didn’t get in. So you can bite me about ‘below average kids’ He is no ‘down state dummy’, among other things we are not from down state. That being said, he went to a different school for Engineering that has been a better fit for him than U of I would have been. So it worked out. The fact that students from one nation are so important to the financial situation they would take insurance out in case of a drop off of those students says a lot about the nature of the finances of our flagship state university. https://www.highereddive.com/news/u-of-illinois-insures-against-loss-of-chinese-international-students/543322/ Bailey is tapping into a real frustration here, you can argue it isn’t JBs fault, but it is a real frustration out there. - G'Kar - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:44 am: ==We have got to start thinking of government just exactly like we think of it with our businesses. If we can’t afford it, we ask the gubermint for a farm subsidy or a PPP loan.== There, Beetle, I fixed it for you! - Dysfunction Junction - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:44 am: =They’ve done that already. = Cite please. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:46 am: - Dysfunction Junction - Rich had a post on it. Comments too. I’ll find it. School counselors were baffled how some students were admitted - Skeptic - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:48 am: So he says “Run [UI] like a business” (where have we heard that before?) but then wants to limit his most “profitable” “customers.” “create some scarcity, then increase the price.” That only works when there’s no viable competition. Otherwise you wind up losing in the long run. - G'Kar - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:48 am: ==We have got to start thinking of government just exactly like we think of it with our businesses. If we can’t afford it, we ask the gubermint for a farm subsidy or a PPP loan.== There, Beetle, I fixed it for you. - Rudy’s teeth - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:49 am: All this from Candidate Bailey who can’t tell the difference between dessert and desert. - Cool Papa Bell - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:49 am: The University has been worried about a reduction in students from China for quite some time. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-university-insuran/u-s-university-insured-chinese-student-tuition-against-virus-then-covid-19-hit-idUSKCN25D15P https://www.axios.com/2020/08/18/university-illinois-chinese-students - ThePAMan - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:50 am: As someone with a kid who is a frosh there, he actually does have a point. Was told by a teacher that our large suburban HS (that sent 60 kids the year before) was warned that admissions were going to be tough this year for our HS (and no one got into engineering). Yet, I get down there for orientation and half the kids are not from IL, including the one complaining about the 40 degree weather in March (good luck in winter, kid). Just look at who the restaurants in Campustown are catering to. At least the Illini Inn was open. - Columbo - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:51 am: I’m still laughing over MrJM’s “authentic frontier gibberish”, that one is going to stay with me. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:52 am: ==…the ILGOP … should concede the governors race and focus their attention down ballot== In all seriousness, I wonder how many people N of I80 could even name the ILGOP candidate for Attorney General. - Flying Elvis'-Utah Chapter - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:53 am: Went to school with a few kids that were local high school hot shots that went to Champaign after graduation only to find they were out of their league. Competition to get into U of I has been tough since I was in school. Blaming foreigners who are intellectually superior is just what I’d expect from this clown. Next up, affirmative action. - Dance Band on the Titanic - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:56 am: Isn’t the latest GOP messaging to discourage kids from going to college? “The world needs ditch diggers too.” Judge Elihu Smails - MisterJayEm - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:57 am: “I’m still laughing over MrJM’s ‘authentic frontier gibberish’” Please direct all credit to the brilliant national treasure, Mel Brooks. – MrJM - northsider (the original) - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 11:58 am: Bailey is just stoking hate and resentment. Has he considered that if a college has to admit lots students it would normally turn down, its rank is going to plummet and the brightest will go somewhere else? Or is that what he and his friends want? Lots of reasons why kids don’t get accepted to Champaign. Lots of reasons why kids don’t get accepted to U of Chicago. Lots of reasons why kids don’t get accepted to Loyola. Can be as simple as applying too close to the end of the application period if there are a lot of early admitteds. Can be applying too early with not-off-the-chart stats before the admissions office knows what the year’s crop looks like. Can be the quality of your high school. Can be too many applied from your high school. Grades and scores could be too low. Grades and scores could be so high they know you’ll get a better offer so they don’t want to waste the space. It’s nuanced and requires luck and great timing, but like democracy,it’s the worst form of selection– except for all the others that have been tried. - ThePAMan - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:00 pm: As for the Athletic Department at Illinois, doesn’t the AD’s office have to pay its own “freight” (salaries and scholarships), except for maybe some student fees and employee benefits, since the coaches, etc. are college employees? - Cool Papa Bell - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:02 pm: =Just look at who the restaurants in Campustown are catering to.= What’s your point? Is affirmative action and quota filling for Illinois residents. Didn’t Mr. Bailey was for those types of programs. - Dysfunction Junction - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:05 pm: Thanks in advance, OW. Looking forward to it. Your comments above and yesterday (Bailey needs to answer how to pay for what he’s proposing) are spot-on. Both my recent UIUC graduate and the son I just sent out of state wrestled with the cost/benefit of a UIUC education and whether taking out loans made sense. It did for my eldest, and I’m fairly certain he’s making more money because of the prestige of his program. (In fact, some employers said they only recruit from Champaign.) His younger brother decided to cash in on the enticements other states are throwing at well-qualified Illinois students to lure them away. Good programs are literally offering free tuition for our brightest students, whereas UIUC can’t be bothered to even broach the subject of financial aid. - Observer - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:07 pm: Does Bailey know who Shadid Khan is? - Pundent - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:11 pm: =Bailey is just stoking hate and resentment.= Precisely. And it doesn’t require any actual policies to do that. You can simply talk about “foreigners” pensioners, and administrator salaries. The goal is simple, build the case that people not like us are taking or doing things they aren’t entitled to. It’s pretty much Bailey’s entire ethos. But he’s likely hit the ceiling on those that buy into this. - H-W - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:12 pm: Is Bailey advocating for socialized higher education, in which all citizens are granted access to the U. of I.? - The Doc - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:13 pm: “We have got to start thinking of government just exactly like we think of it with our businesses” “There’s absolutely no reason that the president of the college should be making a million dollars” Pick a lane, Mr. Bailey. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:17 pm: - Dysfunction Junction - Thanks, appreciate that… yep, I’ll get that cite. OW - Leap Day William - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:19 pm: == Both my recent UIUC graduate and the son I just sent out of state wrestled with the cost/benefit of a UIUC education and whether taking out loans made sense. It did for my eldest, and I’m fairly certain he’s making more money because of the prestige of his program. (In fact, some employers said they only recruit from Champaign.) == I was told people don’t do this because they decide the “prestige” price tag isn’t worth it and a free degree from out-of-state places offers just as many opportunities - Rudy’s teeth - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:21 pm: Do these complaints hit close to home for Darren Bailey? Are parents and students from Xenia upset because their students may not be admitted to U of I? Is there a back story or is this just noise from Darren Bailey? - Ares - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:23 pm: One cannot think of UIUC without thinking of how to allocate programs - and properly fund - all the State schools, each with its own unique strengths (ISU, for example, in teaching and nursing). UIUC admissions strike a nerve (as displayed by all the comments today and yesterday), but until Mr. Bailey and his party will “put their money where their mouths are” (by being willing to pay more in personal / corporate taxes to better fund IL state schools and help ensure debt-free IL graduates) his / their words ring somewhat hollow. - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:29 pm: Someone posted this yesterday, but it bears repeating, especially for Senator Bailey to hear: Direct state financial support for the U of I system is about $700 million. That’s the taxpayer’s contribution. The total budget for the university is $7.18 billion. I’d say that makes the U of I one of the best performing businesses Illinois has. https://news.uillinois.edu/view/7815/1096621426#:~:text=The%20U%20of%20I%20System%20operating%20budget%20for%20the%20current,year%20′23%20later%20this%20year. - MoralMinority - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:31 pm: ==We have got to start thinking of government just exactly like we think of it with our businesses.==So, Darren, all the restaurants and retail stores in Illinois should check ID at the door and turn away out-of-state customers? Sorry, our establishment is for the patronage of Illinois residents only. The taxpayers of Illinois provided roads and utilities and in some cases subsidies to our businesses. Go back to your own state to shop or eat out. We have to save spaces for our Illinois customers. - Stix Hix - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:31 pm: My lovely lady and I recently went to a farewell reception for a student returning to Japan. He completed his masters and doctorate and was such a blessing to our community, his church, and our local American Guild of Organists chapter. We were so sad to see him and his wife leave. And, we love eating our way up and down Green Street. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:32 pm: ===I was told people don’t do this because they decide the “prestige” price tag isn’t worth it and a free degree from out-of-state places offers just as many opportunities=== Did you purposely forget this? Is this why you might fear peer review? ===His younger brother decided to cash in on the enticements other states are throwing at well-qualified Illinois students to lure them away. Good programs are literally offering free tuition for our brightest students, whereas UIUC can’t be bothered to even broach the subject of financial aid.=== I mean… seriously? You count that as… vindication? - JoanP - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:34 pm: = Is he next going to call for bringing back football at University of Chicago because = It’s already back. https://athletics.uchicago.edu/sports/fball/index - Amalia - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:39 pm: @ThePaMan, the way it has been explained to me by people looking for such info, public university athletics expenditures are like all state expenditures, in the available to the public budget. there would be a line item for revenue from, say, the B1G tv money….but remember that is divided because coverage is not just for football, or men’s basketball. for private universities apparently this information is hard to get, as in usually only the salary of a coach referenced on a Federal grant. I just read about a few such salaries and budget matters via a discussion of Title IX spending and discrepancies for number of women given places in athletics in universities.Illinois is short 7 spots. - MoralMinority - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:40 pm: ==There’s absolutely no reason that the president of the college should be making a million dollars.==Maybe, but there is absolutely no reason you should have gotten half a million dollars in PPP “loans” forgiven when you went ahead business as usual during the Covid pandemic either, Darren. - Leap Day William - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:41 pm: == Did you purposely forget this? Is this why you might fear peer review? == Nope, don’t fear peer review. You’re welcome to read the paper in 18-24 months when we’ve cleared and published. == You count that as… vindication? == I count this as validation that students/parents do the calculus of whether the high risk/stress from a “prestige” program is worth the chance of high reward (i.e., some companies don’t even bother recruiting out of lower-ranked programs), whereas others look at that calculus and say “no thanks, I’ll take the free ride out of state.” Keep up. - MoralMinority - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:51 pm: I expect one change Darren might make at U of I is mandating free Mountain Dew for all students from Illinois. Darren might even provide it himself. - ThePAMan - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:53 pm: Amelia, the closest I could find quickly was this article: https://www.news-gazette.com/news/who-foots-the-bill-for-public-universities-athletic-programs/article_078a85b0-f83f-5407-921a-84613758ba7a.html Looks like a mixed bag when factoring in facilities and benefits like pensions. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 12:53 pm: - Dysfunction Junction - It was in *2015*, those Rauner years, amirite? Then… ===College coordinator Lianne Musser said those accepted to business and engineering programs were as qualified as those from previous years, but in other programs, “We had maybe a couple that kind of raised eyebrows that they got in,” she said.=== UIUC already lowered standards, how much lower do folks want? Cite… https://www.pjstar.com/story/news/education/campus/2015/11/23/u-illinois-hikes-aid-drops/32962493007/ - PublicServant - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:00 pm: === Everywhere I go… === I’m thinkin he needs to expand everywhere he goes. - Leap Day William - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:03 pm: == Looks like a mixed bag when factoring in facilities and benefits like pensions. == I can’t remember for sure, but I assume as they are a holder “academic professional” title (unless there’s a civil service title that covers them) that $4mil/year FB coach is also a Tier 2 SURS pensioner. I believe there’s a cap on contributions/earnings because I’d hate to think the state is kicking in an 8% match on $4mil/year, but yeah… - The Yellow Peril - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:07 pm: === Bailey needs to answer: How do you pay for this change of ratio? * How do you make UIUC more accessible in monies for scholastic merit === He did answer those questions. “Cut waste” hahaha. One person on this post cannot come to grips with the fact that Multiple sources rank UIUC as one of the top public universities in the country, and that demand for the education they offer is so high that you can count it among Illinois’ top interstate and international exports. Instead, he argues that Illinoisans are not enrolling at U of I because its product is somehow miss-priced. The market disagrees. We should stop treating the latest flop from Bailey as anything other than what it obviously is. Tapping into “frustration” as it was mildly put. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:11 pm: ===Instead, he argues that Illinoisans are not enrolling at U of I because its product is somehow miss-priced. The market disagrees.=== He, it appears is me, lol You don’t think cost is a factor that students might not choose UIUC? I mean, Illinois is #2 in college “exports” (students) You don’t think a reason might be cost? Considering 80 million folks have student loans, they might think having no student debt is a good thing? - New Day - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:12 pm: It’s worth mentioning that the entire college application process is out of whack because of people taking gap years during Covid. I’ve got a kid applying to top colleges and he’s being told to lower his expectations despite his stellar career because the application numbers are out of whack. Probably has a hell of a lot more to do with students not getting into U of I than whatever is occupying Gabby Johnson’s frontier gibberish mind. - illinifan - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:16 pm: I’m tired of people throwing out the word woke. On Baileys side they use it as an insult even though it means that one is “alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice”. As to the pension comment Baileys staff should use the google. When Quinn was proposing pension changes the state universities made a series of proposals https://massmail.illinois.edu/massmail/26816.html - Stu - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:24 pm: I’m sure Bailey didn’t see many foreign students when he matriculated at Lake Land College. - Dysfunction Junction - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:26 pm: Thanks for the citation, OW. Lianne Musser’s quote absolutely does not track with my experience, but then again, we only looked at engineering programs for my eldest and only business (specifically supply chain management)for my middle child. Speaking of the middle child, he ended up choosing an excellent SCM program at UArk, which not only out-ranks the UIUC program, but will cost around half as much when you add in all the sweeteners they threw at him. IA State offered free tuition, but as a family, we’re big on price/performance metrics. We don’t skimp on education, fire extinguishers or motor oil. Leap Day, I agreed with almost everything you said yesterday and wrote up a long response to address things both you and OW said. Then I deleted it because I didn’t want to get pulled into the mud fight you two were having. Besides, I have a poor record of getting long posts through Rich’s moderation algorithms (please just this once, Rich). At the end of the day, every student and family have to balance quality of a program versus the price they can afford. Just like any major purchase, although education is perhaps the most important. My fundamental problem with Bailey’s ramblings is that his cure is worse than the ailment he’s proposing. If anything drags down the quality of the UIUC experience, you won’t get Illinois’ best and brightest there at any cost. And the directionals likely won’t exist anymore. - OneMan - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:28 pm: In part this comes down to a question of how important is the mission of serving Illinois students vs having the highest rated school (assuming highest rated is by the perceived aptitude of newly admitted students)? I suspect you could turn U of I Engineering into something even closer to MIT if you decided to take just the best and brightest without any sort of geographic or economic preference, but should that be the goal of the University? I suspect that is true of virtually any program at U of I, but how much of the goal of a state school (even the best one) be to educate the children of that state? Bailey may be off the mark quite a bit with a lot of this, but I would argue that campaigning on ‘We should work to give more kids from Illinois opportunities to attend U of I’ is a strong issue to campaign on. Because like it or not, I would say there is a perception that U of I is not focused on educating the children of Illinois. Also on a completely different note, after your first job no one cares where you went to school in computer science. - ThePAMan - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:29 pm: =UIUC already lowered standards, how much lower do folks want? Cite… https://www.pjstar.com/story/news/education/campus/2015/11/23/u-illinois-hikes-aid-drops/32962493007/= Not sure an article from 2015 is relevant to today, since the school has switched to the Common Application since then and the application numbers exploded. - Dysfunction Junction - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:32 pm: =after your first job no one cares where you went to school in computer science= Can confirm. Source = 30 years working for software companies. It’s also a point that both OW and Leap Day tried to make yesterday. Not that either of them were willing to acknowledge. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:39 pm: - ThePAMan - The point was they already lowered the standards. What more does Bailey want? The goal is to keep UIUC a top flight jewel of a flagship. How much lower does he want? - Dysfunction Junction - It’s all good, you lived “both sides” I play Titleist golf balls. In golf balls, they are in a higher end. Can I play cheaper golf balls, “same results”, very likely, probably “yes” Because in support and believe in a brand, and able to get those golf balls, paying the cost, not an issue, when even if others play a cheaper brand, likely have a better golf game. Thing is, is being saddled with $70K in debt to go to UIUC worth it, gambling on recouping the cost, when other flagship universities can provide that education, and after the first 2-3 jobs, your work history is likely nattering more. Prestige has a cost for some. Thinking UIUC has completely “maxed out” each and every qualified student and that others didn’t see the value and plum didn’t waste the time to apply… Again… Bailey needs to figure out cost to families wanting to go, but choosing not to apply… and the loss of revenue if one now takes less student that play a full freight if out of state, out of country brings. Thanks for your patience - - Dysfunction Junction -, be well - Michelle Flaherty - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:41 pm: – ‘We should work to give more kids from Illinois opportunities to attend U of I’ – Agreed. That’s a great message. But it’s hard for Bailey to do that with any credibility when he voted against funding the school and voted against more financial aid for students. That’s the irony of Bailey choosing to have a detailed higher ed plan. The guy has done nothing for higher education as a lawmaker. Oh, but now he cares. Call me when the shuttle lands. - Blarney Rubble - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:41 pm: =Competition is rough, isn’t it. You’re on a bigger stage now. Those supposedly smart kids just have to be smarter than those ‘foreign kids’, and there’s no problem. Telling yourself how smart and deserving your kids are only goes so far. If being exposed to the rest of the world shatters that illusion, the problem was the illusion, not the situation that shattered it.= Invisible Man, that’s a pretty uninformed view. The Illinois kids not getting into UIUC are just as smarter as the Chinese kids who are admitted. But, the IL kids are at a disadvantage because UIUC wants a “world presence” and can charge a higher tuition rate to those non-IL kids. Per ABC news: “In July of 2017 U of I secured three years of insurance coverage at a cost of $424,000 as prevention from a “specific set of identifiable events” such as visa restrictions or a pandemic. The policy would trigger with a 20 percent loss in revenue from Chinese student tuition in a single academic year.” These foreign students mean more money for UIUC. - Jimmy Baseball - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:44 pm: ==Cite… https://www.pjstar.com/story/news/education/campus/2015/11/23/u-illinois-hikes-aid-drops/32962493007/== Let me help you out with some data a bit more recent than this story from seven years ago. From 2021: The totals include 5,835 new students from Illinois, the largest number of in-state students in the freshman class since 2018 and the second largest in 10 years. The average ACT was 31.4 (29.8 in 2020) and the average SAT was 1410 (1331 in 2020). https://news.illinois.edu/view/6367/363464553 A student with these ACT/SAT scores would be in the top 5-7% nationally. https://blog.prepscholar.com/act-percentiles-and-score-rankings https://blog.prepscholar.com/sat-percentiles-and-score-rankings Everyone has an anecdotal story of an excellent student choosing to go elsewhere for any number of reasons, but the idea that students aren’t interested in UIUC or that they’ve lowered their standards simply isn’t true. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:51 pm: - Jimmy Baseball - Illinois is #2 in exporters of college students. You think cost isn’t a factor in that exodus? You also think there’s at least “5,834” exodus students that could qualify for admission but chose not to for anything and all reasons.. including monies for they’d education? shorturl.at/fglqt In June 2019, 35,000+ students went out of state. You don’t think *any* could be admitted to UIUC? - West Sider - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:52 pm: Mr JM wins the internet for his Blazing Saddles remark. - Dysfunction Junction - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:56 pm: I’m well, OW, thanks for your concern. “Prestige” is a relative term. Outside of Computer Science/Engineering (which many believe out-ranks even MIT), there are many more prestigious options out there. Among my eldest son’s classmates at IMSA, going to UIUC was seen as “settling.” In fact, my eldest almost didn’t go there for that reason. But again, we ran the numbers, checked the reported outcomes (job placement and salary numbers), and made our choice. Second kid, different considerations, different outcome. Both seem happy with their decisions so far. For what it’s worth, if the point of Bailey’s screeds is bring in fewer exchange students, that’s one of the most short-sighted ideas I’ve heard of yet. Then again, I married one and I’m quite sure my country, state, and family are much better off for it. - ThePAMan - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:58 pm: Sounds like Jimmy Baseball just touched them all. And Blarney Rubble hit the ball on the nose too. This is all about the out-of-state tuition money for a bunch of international kids who will neither settle in IL nor donate to the UofI as alums. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:58 pm: “Why isn’t the U of I being utilized more by by state government to challenge the system, to come up with a pension solution.” Because it’s not their job. - btowntruth from forgottonia - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:58 pm: Anonymous above was me. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 1:59 pm: ===“Prestige” is a relative term.=== Some like BMWs, other Mercedes Benz. Owning a car free and clear versus making payments to the car, how much is “prestige” worth? - Westender - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 2:02 pm: -ThePaMan- That is how it works at every high level school. This is not unique to UofI. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 2:02 pm: To. The. Update. ===Kaler said the “biggest challenge” when it comes to enrolling in-state students is many say they can’t afford tuition. She said the school has addressed their financial concerns by offering programs like the Illinois Commitment, which offers free tuition for students whose families earn $67,100 a year or less.=== The merit scholarships others take from out of state universities seems to be on the minds of UIUC, they are choosing financial need or challenges, which is awesome… but isn’t helpful for millionaire downstate farmers in the Illinois senate. - Dysfunction Junction - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 2:15 pm: =Thing is, is being saddled with $70K in debt to go to UIUC worth it, gambling on recouping the cost= Again, OW, everything’s relative. If you’re an art history major, almost certainly not. If you’re a chemical engineer, the decision is harder. My son doesn’t have anything near $70k in student debt, but if he did, I conservatively estimate that *just the added “prestige” of his UIUC degree* would erase that in five years or less. Totally agree with the “nobody cares about your degree after 2-3 jobs” sentiment though. Did you know that at 18? I didn’t. More relativity: when Chevy Chase’s character in Caddyshack finds his ball during night practice and says “Yeah, that’s mine. It’s a Titleist,” I assumed that was self-deprecating humor. I’m not a golfer, so maybe it was a humblebrag meant to impress the rodents. Imagine if he’d said Ping. - Simple Simon - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 2:19 pm: A few personal observations. First, the “waste fraud and abuse” nonsense shows Bailey has no real ideas. Second, UI is generally hard to get into, but not impossible or even difficult for the best and brightest (outside of Engineering and Comp Sci). However, let’s be real: directionals are the appropriate venues for those who don’t have a 3.7/1350 instead of the flagship. Third, Bailey has a point that Engineering and Comp Sci have limited spots and perhaps should increase Illinois residents, that being a main purpose of the campus. That alone will go far to reduce the parental angst that exists (no one is complaining that their kid can’t get into English) but it will require funding. If he wants to cut waste, I suggest eliminating the athletic department, but that’s just me. Fourth, as a parent of a kid in the throes of college applications, rumors of poaching and buckets of money being thrown at the top 10% are somewhat overblown. About 40% of the kids at the best high school in the state (IMSA) are going to the UI system this year, and over 100% were accepted (some applied to both places apparently). The rest are scattered countrywide. 1 went to Alabama. Other places make it financially competitive but hardly free or even so cheap that most would skip UI Engineering for. In summary, open up the most difficult departments at UI a bit, add some funding, and Bob’s your uncle without major disruption. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 2:21 pm: ===Again, … everything’s relative=== I guess UIUC sees the problem too. It’s all good. Bailey’s issues with funding and attracting students remains the same… now UIUC sees the cost is a thing, admittedly. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 2:29 pm: ===I count this as validation=== Hmm. Validate the thought of UIUC… ===Kaler said the “biggest challenge” when it comes to enrolling in-state students is many say they can’t afford tuition. She said the school has addressed their financial concerns by offering programs like the Illinois Commitment, which offers free tuition for students whose families earn $67,100 a year or less.=== Looks like UIUC sees the in-state student money worry is a “biggest challenge” Add that to the research. - Lucky Pierre - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 2:32 pm: The University of Illinois is also the biggest exporter of it’s graduates https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/01/04/the-most-chinese-schools-in-america-rankings-data-education-china-u/ - Harriett - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 2:32 pm: This issue is going to resonate with blue collar workers. - Ron Burgundy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 2:42 pm: I’m no accountant, but UIUC has one of the best Accountancy programs in the country. If asked to look at Illinois’ pension problems, I’m pretty sure the response would be that the state needs to fund them at a sufficient level to meet their obligations. There you go. Free of charge. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 2:49 pm: ===is also the biggest exporter=== How many of the out if staters are merely going home? How many of the foreign students are going back home too? - Rudy’s teeth - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 2:51 pm: Speaking of tuition and debt, a student at Bailey’s school Full Armor who enrolls from first to twelfth grade would have tuition costs of $36,000 at today’s rate of $3,000 per year. Let’s not overlook the importance of access to public education in the community. - TheInvisibleMan - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 2:52 pm: –The Illinois kids not getting into UIUC are just as smarter as the Chinese kids who are admitted.– Like I said, telling yourself that only goes so far. After all, *other Illinois students* beat them for an admission spot too. - Louis G Atsaves - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 2:53 pm: ===The school admitted a record-breaking number of freshmen last fall – just over 8,300. 5,835 of those were from Illinois, and 2,468 were not.=== This represents around 70% Illinois residents. Yesterday, the colleges and the governor were tossing around 80% numbers. What gives here? - Lucky Pierre - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 2:55 pm: As the school with the largest Chinese enrollment and one of the smallest out of state enrollments, our flagship, world class state university is doing a great service to the Chinese economy. Can anyone admit this troubles a lot of parents and students who didn’t get in to their dream school deeply? - Dysfunction Junction - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 2:56 pm: =She said the school has addressed their financial concerns by offering programs like the Illinois Commitment, which offers free tuition for students whose families earn $67,100 a year or less.= Our close family friend has two kids who attended UofI on this program, as they were raised by a low-income single mom. They’re every bit as bright as my kids, but they would not have even applied to UofI had the same financial aid parameters applied to them as applied to my own. And since they both went in to study art, not engineering, I would have strongly advised them against it even if they had the money. Am I bitter that they attend the same school as my kid for around a quarter the price? Heck no. They deserve it. But in order to make that possible, UIUC has to stick it to the foreign students who pay 2.5 times as much in tuition as my own kid did. =This issue is going to resonate with blue collar workers.= And xenophobes. Let’s not forget the xenophobes. - Dysfunction Junction - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 2:59 pm: =This represents around 70% Illinois residents. Yesterday, the colleges and the governor were tossing around 80% numbers. What gives here? = Yesterday’s 80% figure was, in my opinion, a slight blurring of the facts. That figure included *all* UofI campuses, i.e., Chambana, Chicago, and Springfield. The 70% figure likely refers to just UIUC. That was part of the long response I ended up not sending. I didn’t like that misleading quote at all. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 3:02 pm: ===Can anyone admit this troubles a lot of parents and students who didn’t get in to their dream school deeply? === I’m sure it does. And debate is good. But there’s only so much one can do to satisfy perpetually aggrieved people. - Crispy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 3:09 pm: Blue Dog @11:41, the most recent numbers I can find are from 2021, and they show that UIUC had a total Chinese enrollment of 4,766 against a total enrollment of 56,299, so about 8 percent. That’s *total* enrollment for the *entire* university–not just the freshman class, but everyone from freshmen to Ph.D.’s. Before the pandemic, it was around 12 percent–again, by total enrollment, not by single class. Also, the majority of students from China are grad students. I guess the short answer is, no, that 10 percent figure is not validated. - Cool Papa Bell - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 3:10 pm: =====The school admitted a record-breaking number of freshmen last fall – just over 8,300. 5,835 of those were from Illinois, and 2,468 were not.=== This represents around 70% Illinois residents. Yesterday, the colleges and the governor were tossing around 80% numbers. What gives here? == So we are talking about 1635 Illinois high school graduates to get to 90%. - Outside Chicago - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 3:16 pm: Re the 80 percent figure, that’s the percentage of undergraduate enrollment across the U of I System. I found the info here: https://www.uillinois.edu/data/enrollment The 70 percent figure, as the post above indicates, is UIUC freshmen. - Dysfunction Junction - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 3:17 pm: = As the school with the largest Chinese enrollment… Can anyone admit this troubles a lot of parents and students who didn’t get in to their dream school deeply? = Only if they parents and students know for a fact that their academic credentials were as good or better than the Chinese students. If they aren’t, then tough tooties. Life ain’t fair. Have you spent much time around Chinese or Indian exchange students? If you had, you’d know the educational hurdles they have to overcome just to get out of high school would make most Americans’ head explode. That may not be popular knowledge or a popular opinion in the greater Xenia metropolitan area, but it’s the truth. Self-respecting conservatives used to believe in meritocracy and success through persistent bootstrap-pulling. Ah, memories. - The Yellow Peril - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 3:17 pm: === You don’t think a reason might be cost? === Fair price, as they say, is what the market will bear. UIUC is offering a world class education, as the number of applicants and especially the number of international applicants points out. The problem is not that the price is unfair, which is what you keep arguing. The product being offered is so fairly priced that people from outside Illinois are willing to pay more than double what instate residents are offered. You are making specious claims about “student exports”. Atleast at UIUC, they are importing just as many as they are “exporting.” The 2019 figure you site is also part of the Rauner years, students were making enrollment decisions based on underfunding and threats of cuts from Rauner, as well as proposals to eliminate entire majors at many campuses. We do have more to do to help all colleges in Illinois recover from Rauner’s efforts to hollow out higher Ed, Bailey wants to double down on those failed Rauner policies. - Ryan - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 3:18 pm: What percentage of the U of I’s budget comes from the state…? Like the state university I work at, the U of I is no longer a “state school.” It’s “state-located.” - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 3:20 pm: ===The problem is not that the price is unfair, which is what you keep arguing.=== Huh, lol ===Kaler said the “biggest challenge” when it comes to enrolling in-state students is many say they can’t afford tuition. She said the school has addressed their financial concerns by offering programs like the Illinois Commitment, which offers free tuition for students whose families earn $67,100 a year or less.=== UIUC sees it as a “biggest problem” Are *they* wrong? :) - Amalia - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 3:28 pm: @ThePAMan, thanks for that link on athletics spending. One source I follow lots on colleges and spending is USA Today, Steve Berkowitz, I think that is his name. he’s the lead or on team for all sorts of articles that cover college spending. Someone please ask Bailey if the salary of Bret B. should be lowered. - thechampaignlife - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 3:29 pm: U of I President’s salary is not a million. Not too far off, and probably closer when benefits are counted, but facts should still matter. Not that a million would be abnormal for the leader of a $7B enterprise. https://dailyillini.com/special-sections/salary-guide-stories/2021/11/24/president-killeen-raise/ - Al - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 3:47 pm: The UIUC administration views foreign students like those in the weekend Executive MBA program - a cash cow. The number of Chinese electrical engineering students is alarming. We are giving our competition a lot of valuable knowledge. - Medvale School for the Gifted - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 3:55 pm: Perhaps Bailey could offer something positive to say about U of I. Maybe he could acknowledge the $19 billion economic engine that the U of I represents for Illinois. Bigger than him for sure. https://news.uillinois.edu/view/7815/1406817628 - Jenny - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 4:22 pm: Perhaps the $19 billion economic engine could admit 5-10,000 more Illinois residents and lower tuition so a middle class family could afford to pay it without using student loans? When it comes to higher Ed, working families have a lot to be aggrieved about. Higher Ed needs to start thinking outside the box. - Medvale School for the Gifted - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 4:28 pm: Jenny, you should probably read the report. - walker - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 5:59 pm: “Running the government like a business” is a recipe for disaster touted by the well-meaning clueless. The only thing worse is “Running government like my household budget”. I could write a book on how these approaches produce failure. - filmmaker prof - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 6:26 pm: $9 million in subsidies (student fees and taxpayer funds) per year to the athletic program at UIUC - that they disclose. This does not include taxpayer pensions for retired athletic department employees. Former AD Ron Gunether collects a $500,000 per year taxpayer funded pension. That half a million dollars a year to do nothing. - Simple Simon - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 10:10 pm: Fun with numbers: If you want 1600 more in-state kids attending UI, you need to replace about $30 million dollars of lost out-of-state tuition revenue (20K per kid), which is almost a rounding error in the state budget. Maybe Bailey can suggest a way to obtain that. If you think UI is overpriced by $10K or so, you need to increase state funding by about $500M, which is substantial but not really out of the question. You’d be better off adding to MAP grants, though, in order to help the 97% and not the 3%. - Sign of the Times - Wednesday, Aug 31, 22 @ 10:44 pm: Replace the word “woke” in Bailey’s screed with the word “Jewish”… it sounds like 1920s Germany. - sal-says - Thursday, Sep 1, 22 @ 7:31 am: == There’s absolutely no reason that the president of the college should be making a million dollars. == Apparently, Beetle thinks the prez of a billion dollar Univ with 10’s of thousands of students outta be working for minimum wage. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Sep 1, 22 @ 7:38 am: I forgot this… ===The problem is not that the price is unfair, which is what you keep arguing.=== I actually keep arguing merit scholarships which leave students with NO debt. Zero beats $1, if we’re talking price. Now it’s “who wants to pay full price”, and be saddled with more debt. It appears UIUC sees cost as a “biggest challenge” too, so… - Dysfunction Junction - Thursday, Sep 1, 22 @ 8:51 am: =I actually keep arguing merit scholarships which leave students with NO debt.= No debt would be ideal, but let’s face it, merit scholarships serve a lot of purposes. A co-worker of mine is a UIUC alum, as is her husband. When their daughter graduated from SHG with a 4.0 average and a list of extracurriculars as long as your arm, UIUC offered her a one-time $1500 enticement. Guess who’s no longer contributing to the alumni fund? They ended up sending the daughter to a prestigious private school that offered a four-year renewable scholarship as recognition of their child’s hard work and perfect grades. Not sure how UIUC came out ahead on that deal. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Sep 1, 22 @ 8:56 am: ===Not sure how UIUC came out ahead on that deal.=== “It was a financial decision” - UIUC, denying opportunities other schools can afford Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.