Can we find a way through this, please?
Tuesday, Oct 11, 2022 - Posted by Rich Miller
* NBC 5…
The city of Chicago marked both Indigenous Peoples Day and held its 70th annual Columbus Day parade Monday. But the controversy over Christopher Columbus’ legacy kept some elected leaders away.
Pritzker’s statement to NBC 5…
He didn’t actually attend any events, but did have “a full day of meetings and interviews,” according to his campaign. Pritzker didn’t post anything on Twitter except that he was “celebrating”…
Not a word about Italian-Americans.
* ABC 7…
For parade organizers, there was a sense of disappointment with those politicians who were not there - particularly if it’s out of concern about the controversy.
“Any elected official who’s not here today, I feel bad for them because they’re not really standing up for people they’re standing up for themselves,” said Ron Onesti, president of the Joint Civic Committee of Italian Americans.
“If that’s why they’re staying away, then they’re cowards, that’s what I would say,” 38th Ward Ald. Nick Sposato said. […]
“I think it’s an absolute shame that Governor Pritzker and Lori Lightfoot choose to diminish the accomplishments that Italians have made to our society,” Bailey said. “So no, I want to celebrate this, this is what America is about right here.”
The powers that be should figure something out. We ought to be honoring Italian-Americans.
* I reached out to the governor’s office about this topic and here’s what I was sent…
Our strength as a country and state come from our diversity – and no matter where we came from, our contributions have made America the greatest nation in the world. But we are also strong because of our willingness to confront the ugly sins of our past; and the genocide and abuse of Native Americans is a stain upon our collective conscience. It is appropriate for us as a state to recognize both the good and the bad, and I am committed to working with all people of goodwill to continue to recognize the contributions of Italian Americans while also telling honest stories about the lives, history and contributions of our nation’s Native Americans.
Maybe something can be done.
Your thoughts?
* More…
* Native Americans want recognition of Indigenous Peoples Day as Columbus Day celebration parades downtown: “Why can we have Juneteenth, but we can’t get Indigenous Peoples Day?” [Ald. Maria Hadden] said. … “We’re not going anywhere,” Onesti told the Tribune. “There’s over 500,000 of us in the Chicagoland area, and we’re here celebrating and flying the green, white and red of our flag today.” … “We want the Indigenous people to have their day,” Onesti said. “We want to celebrate with them. But there’s 364 other opportunities. Let us have our day.”
* Chicago’s Columbus statues remain hidden as another Columbus Day arrives: But Onesti said Italian Americans are “very hurt, very furious” that Lightfoot ignored the demand to return the Columbus statues to their pedestals in time for Monday’s celebration of the Columbus Day holiday that his community holds dear. “If this was any other ethnic group involved, this would have been taken care of a long time ago. For some reason, she feels that Italian Americans are easy to push around and easy to manhandle,” Onesti said. … “If you read history and you read his own journals, you’ll see how he abused Native women and girls … and the cruelties and atrocities that he committed against Native people. He … took them back to Europe as slaves,” [Les Begay, one of the founders of the Indigenous Peoples’ Day Coalition of Illinois] said. “It’s very much like keeping Confederate statues up. There’s no difference between the two. Columbus triggers Native people just like Confederate statues trigger other groups.”
- New Day - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:00 am:
“We ought to be honoring Italian-Americans.”
Why? I get that Columbus day morphed into Italian American day, but that wasn’t the point. Why should we have a holiday for Italians? What about other ethnicities or religions. When is the City holiday for Muslims or Jews? Or Ukrainians? Or any one of the hundreds of nationalities represented in the City?
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:05 am:
===I get that Columbus day morphed into Italian American day, but that wasn’t the point.===
Doesn’t matter what the original point was. Reality is what it is.
- Ron Burgundy - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:06 am:
-We ought to be honoring Italian-Americans.-
Agreed. Italian heritage is something to celebrate. I just wish that such a celebration wasn’t so tied by time and tradition to Columbus, who has proven not to be worth celebrating himself. Italian-Americans should be able to celebrate their heritage just like Irish-Americans on St. Patrick’s Day and Mexican-Americans during Cinco de Mayo. I’m not sure a day off is necessary though. There seems to be miscommunication among leaders - I don’t think the Columbus Day opponents are intending to denigrate Italian-Americans, but it seems to be taken that way. Some mutual understanding and communication seems to be in order.
- JS Mill - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:08 am:
=Maybe something can be done.=
Bill Maher really nailed it when he went off on “presentism” which he said was making moral/ethical judgments about the conduct of people in the past based on current norms.
We have to stop, 530 years ago was just not comparable.
- Allison - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:11 am:
==Can we find a way through this?==
The Gaurdians winning the World Series would be a step in the right direction.
Beyond that, I’m stumped because there doesn’t seem to be any consensus on world of US history or how to handle disputes on whom to honor - or continue to honor. Has anyone reduced to writing a standard based on an unbiased view of history?
- vern - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:12 am:
The Italian-Americans most fired up about this can propose alternatives to start the conversation, but they haven’t done that. Columbus is the hill they’re dying on. Doesn’t seem particularly difficult or anti-Italian to say “Columbus isn’t the best choice to represent us, here are some folks we could honor who didn’t do a bunch of evil stuff while on the payroll of Spain.”
- Gen Z Opinionater - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:12 am:
I say abolish Columbus day and pivot to celebrate Italian-American day on some other culturally important date. What about Ferragosto (August 15th)? Or maybe the birthday of Sinatra, Vita Russo, or some other Italian-American?
Why do we have to associate the violent legacy of one colonizer/white supremacist with the entire Italian-American community?
- Techie - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:13 am:
I have never heard the Columbus day is a de facto celebration of Italian heritage. Surely they can find someone to celebrate who wasn’t such an incredibly awful person, there are plenty of Italians and Italian-Americans worthy of celebrating. But Columbus isn’t one of them.
- The Real Downstate - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:13 am:
Ron Burgundy put it exactly right. Italian American heritage is worth celebrating, Columbus is not. Pritzker should speak with Italian American leaders in the state and then ask the legislature to establish a separate day of recognition for them.
- Soccermom - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:14 am:
Yeah, I don’t know why the only Italian we could celebrate is Christopher Columbus. I mean, I could actually get excited about Enrico Fermi Day in Illinois. Or any other great Italian-American. But Columbus? He was a monster.
- skutt - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:14 am:
Why is there such resistance to finding a way to celebrate Italian American heritage that doesn’t involve Columbus?
- TheInvisibleMan - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:14 am:
As an Italian American, with a last name that ends with an ‘o’ and currently going through the process of getting my Italian citizenship, I do not care about Christopher Columbus. At all.
In fact, years ago I also learned why and more importantly how Columbus day became a holiday in the first place, which makes me want to have even less to do with it.
- Larry Bowa Jr. - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:17 am:
“We ought to be honoring Italian-Americans.”
OK I’ll bite. As a German-American (sounds absurd doesn’t it), I want my special day. Considering that a population of mostly German, Irish and Polish immigrants had already built Chicago into a world famous city before Italians started arriving in meaningful numbers.
And when we “German Americans” get our day, it should celebrate one of the Germans who a) didn’t actually do the thing he’s known for, and b) killed a lot of people in the process.
I’m sure everybody’s going to rally around my sense of victimhood in pursuit of this goal.
- 47th Ward - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:19 am:
Columbus’ discovery is a source of pride for many Italian Americans. This same discovery had devastating consequences for Indigenous People. Both of these things are true, both can and should be recognized in any commemoration.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:21 am:
In Colorado, the second Monday in October is Mother Cabrini Day. Illinois should consider following Colorado in replacing Columbus Day with Mother Cabrini Day considering her connections to Chicago. Another day of importance can be chosen for Indigenous Peoples Day so not to interfere with Italian Americans and immigrant celebrations on the second Monday of October.
- Narc - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:23 am:
== As a German-American (sounds absurd doesn’t it), I want my special day. ==
German-American day is October 6.
- Google Is Your Friend - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:24 am:
- JS Mill - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:08 am:
First, what Columbus did at the time was called reprehensible and wrong at that time. Or are the voices of the indigenous peoples of the Carribean meaningless to you?
Second, the state of Illinois has a different day statutorily set as Indigenous Peoples Day, that takes place in September.
https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=134&ChapterID=2
- New Day - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:26 am:
“As a German-American (sounds absurd doesn’t it), I want my special day.”
Exactly my point. What about Spanish-Americans or British-Americans or or or or. That said, I’m with Soccermom, let’s do Enrico Fermi Day. I can see the parade celebrating physics now.
- TheInvisibleMan - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:27 am:
–replacing Columbus Day with Mother Cabrini Day–
The government should replace one Catholic holiday with another?
How about no.
Religions can celebrate the days important to them within their churches, not within the government.
- vern - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:28 am:
Also, Columbus didn’t “discover” anything to do with the United States. Probably worth considering why Haiti and the Dominican Republic don’t celebrate him.
- Dysfunction Junction - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:33 am:
=let’s do Enrico Fermi Day=
Imagine the fireworks show down by the old University of Chicago squash courts (banned punctuation)
- JS Mill - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:35 am:
=First, what Columbus did at the time was called reprehensible and wrong at that time. Or are the voices of the indigenous peoples of the Carribean meaningless to you?=
LOL. As an Historian I am well aware of what the European explorers and colonizers did to “indigenous” (maybe or maybe not, there is a growing debate on who was “indigenous”) peoples around the globe, not just in North America.
I am not defending Columbus or the triangle trade. And maybe I could have been more clear, but the lense of today is not a good judge of things that happened decades or hundreds of years ago.
You are correct, Columbus was put in chains over his treatment of the “natives” that he met. But torture was a common practice of the time, especially and most prominently used by the church. Where do we draw the line? I do not have an answer for that. Some place for sure, but where?
I am not sure why we erect statues of men in the first place.
- Jerry - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:35 am:
Ron Santo day anyone?
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:40 am:
The Invisible Man, Columbus Day is not a Catholic holiday, it is a federal holiday.
Do you consider Martin Luther King, Jr. Day a Baptist holiday?
Mother Cabrini Day in Colorado honors her as a humanitarian dedicated to helping the poor, sick, and less fortunate, especially those from immigrant communities.
- Earnest - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:42 am:
I’m on board with Indigenous Peoples Day replacing Columbus Day. I think this is a time to celebrate indigenous people and to recognize the danger in demonizing groups of people, committing acts of violence and hatred against them as well as oppressing them. I hadn’t noticed the phenomenon of Columbus Day morphing into Italian-American Day. I am aware of many areas having Italian Festivals, which I don’t believe are always set to coincide with Columbus Day. I’d don’t think you escape the negative associations of Columbus without relocating on the calendar for a celebration of Italian-Americans. It’d be ripe for for corporate pizza chain and dairy industry sponsorship, and people complaining that’s not a true representation…just like every other pride/heritage group deciding who walks (and doesn’t) in their parades.
- Politix - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:43 am:
Sylvester Stallone Day could be cool.
- TheInvisibleMan - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:45 am:
–Columbus Day is not a Catholic holiday–
Is there *anything* about the history of this day that hasn’t been completely detached from the facts of how it came to be?
- Downstate dem - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:46 am:
Christopher Columbus wasn’t Italian, he didn’t discover anything (he missed Indian by 9,000 miles and called everyone Indians anyway), and Lief Erikson beat him to North America anyway.
- Donnie Elgin - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:46 am:
“Probably worth considering why Haiti and the Dominican Republic don’t celebrate him”
Everyone knows of the Hispanola landing on Christmas 1492, but the first landfall in the “new” world was on October 12, 1492, somewhere in the Bahamas, most likely San Salvador ( then known as Guanahani) Island.
- H-W - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:46 am:
I disagree. I see no need to celebrate Columbus, anymore than I see a need to celebrate Cortez. Both practiced genocide upon landing in this hemisphere.
As to Italian Americans, I do not see an equivalence between the roles of Italian Americans and Native Americans on this continent. As a descendant of Scots-Irish, Irish, and Polish immigrants, I do not see an equivalence calling for the celebration of my ancestors. Indeed, that way of thinking is what goes on down South - it is called “The Lost Cause.”
If we wish to have a common immigrants day, that might be an equivalence to a recognition of indigenous peoples. But to celebrate Irish Americans or Italian Americans would be the equivalence of celebration the Taino people, the Lakota, the Choctaw, the Commanche, the Apache.
No, I understand why Pulaski Day and Columbus Day were created (to garner votes for political machines).
I just disagree that there should be a national or state holiday for each nationality represented in Illinois.
- YankeePitcher - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 11:47 am:
Dr. Anthony Fauci Day.
Nailed it.
- Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 12:02 pm:
Christopher Columbus was most certainly Italian
There are no equivalent celebrations of Irish or Polish?
Pulaski day is a state holiday on the first Monday of March every year followed by St Patrick’s say.
https://www.discoverwalks.com/blog/rome/top-10-famous-italian-people/
The official holiday in Illinois is still Columbus Day
https://cms.illinois.gov/personnel/employeeresources/stateholidays.html
- AcademicUnionStateEmployee - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 12:04 pm:
This may not be popular with my brothers and sisters, but we could also do like the city of Springfield does and not have Columbus Day/Indigenous Peoples Day as a state holiday. (The second Monday of October as well as Presidents Day are not Springfield city holidays and city employees report to work). IIRC Columbus Day seemed to be most likely one of the days Quinn was pushing to eliminate as a paid state holiday for state employees 10 years ago during his contract battle with AFSCME?
- AcademicUnionStateEmployee - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 12:15 pm:
Canadian Thanksgiving Day was also yesterday. It is always held on the exact same second Monday in October that the US has Columbus/Indigienous’ Peoples Day.
- Ron Burgundy - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 12:17 pm:
An aside on this past weekend - I can’t remember the advertiser, perhaps a furniture or home furnishings chain, but they advertised their sale as a “Long Weekend Sale” instead of the usual “Columbus Day Sale.” Thought that was interesting. Perhaps corporate America is starting to take notice?
- AcademicUnionStateEmployee - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 12:18 pm:
==It’d be ripe for for corporate pizza chain and dairy industry sponsorship,==
Isn’t any holiday like that now? Especially the big retailers, car dealers, and the ilk? Especially on Presidents Day with all their “Presidents Day sales” (give us your Presidents i.e. cash and we’ll give you a deal). And things like After Thanksgiving and After Christmas sales.
- Huh? - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 12:21 pm:
“Columbus’ discovery is a source of pride for many Italian Americans”
Too bad he wasn’t sailing under the flag of Genoa, his home town. He was sailing under a Castilian flag, a predecessor to the Spanish Empire.
Columbus was a mercenary,
a sailor for hire. He found a rich person to foot the bill for his voyages. He was lucky to make it home alive.
What he wrought on the indigenous populations of the New World is heinous.
- AcademicUnionStateEmployee - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 12:23 pm:
Or how about two Casimir Pulaski Days instead? Keep the birthday on the first Monday in March, but change the second Monday in October to “General Pulaski Memorial Day.” Since Pulaski died on Oct. 11, 1779 after sustaining wounds two days earlier at the Battle of Savannah.
- Thomas Paine - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 12:25 pm:
Before Columbus, 100 million indigenous people called the Americas home.
Monk’s Mound was home to the Mississippian people whose history we are still recovering, but we do know that at it’s peak 400 years before Columbus, Cahokia was larger than London.
You won’t read that in Darren Bailey’s history books, I imagine.
Nor that Columbus and the waves of explorers that followed led to the deaths of 96 million indigenous people in the years that followed, mostly by spreading European disease, often intentionally.
Yep, the same weapons of mass destruction that we went after Saddam for.
And yet, immigrants are woven into the fabric of our nation. I would argue Columbus does a disservice to the Italian American immigrants of today, as does Chicago’s most famous Italian American son, Al Capone.
I suggest one day, in mid-July, to honor all immigrants and their contributions, and one memorial, central to the city, that honors all of the immigrant communities and their champions.
- Captain Obvious - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 12:28 pm:
Call it whatever you want as long as we still get the day off. I say pick a culturally appropriate day in March, April, or August for Indigenous People’s Day. Those months need a holiday.
- Roadrager - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 12:54 pm:
==I’m with Soccermom, let’s do Enrico Fermi Day. I can see the parade celebrating physics now.==
Something tells me that would go downhill fast.
- Lurker - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 1:03 pm:
“The powers that be should figure something out. We ought to be honoring Italian-Americans.”
No. On all levels, no.
- Jocko - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 1:14 pm:
==making moral/ethical judgments about the conduct of people in the past==
The Spanish government had enough of Columbus by 1502. He might’ve been a pioneer, but Columbus was also a genocidal maniac
- MisterJayEm - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 1:18 pm:
“Bill Maher really nailed it when he went off on “presentism” which he said was making moral/ethical judgments about the conduct of people in the past based on current norms.”
1) The actions of Columbus and the men under his command were contemporaneously recognized as a moral atrocity by moral people — if immoral people refused to recognize his immorality, that is of no account.
2) No one is suggesting that we should build a time-machine to go back and drag Columbus to face 21st century justice, rather people are suggesting that we stop venerating someone who lead and participated in the systematic enslavement, rape and slaughter of thousands of men, women and children.
– MrJM
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 1:21 pm:
===No. On all levels, no. ===
Nice driveby. Maybe go back to Facebook with the other deep thinkers.
- Manchester - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 1:22 pm:
My ancestors were French, English, Irish, Dutch, German, and Native American. Where’s my day? You see how this really can be taken to ridiculous extremes. However, I agree that Columbus was a heinous individual who doesn’t deserve a special honor.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 1:25 pm:
===Where’s my day?===
Imagine, you of Irish descent, if we suddenly stopped celebrating St. Patrick’s Day for some reason or another.
Also, Missouri celebrates Bastille Day because they have a ton of residents of French descent.
For a time, I advocated for a German Day in Illinois, maybe with Albert Einstein as the icon.
- Franklin - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 1:33 pm:
So many virtues to signal. So many pearls to clutch. Where to start?
- Panther Pride - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 1:50 pm:
The day after Thanksgiving is technically Native American Heritage Day. If a compromise is needed, Italian-Americans should endorse changing Columbus Day to Italian-American Heritage Day as a recognition of the day they’ve long celebrated but moving away from the atrocious record of Columbus and we can then put greater emphasis on Native American Heritage Day instead of having the dueling days. Little bit of column A, little bit of column B.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 1:51 pm:
===So many virtues to signal. So many pearls to clutch. Where to start?===
This is why I waited this long to comment.
Thank you.
Rich’s title to this post is apt.
The virtue signaling, phony angst, true anger, honest discussions, not so subtle to those commenting.
Like gnats to the light, the phony aren’t grasping the problems, like the blind looking for light, the angered confuse plain pride in being Irish, German, Italian, you name it, as a signaling that others are less.
I hope there can be an answer.
I enjoy St. Patrick’s Day almost as much as St. Joseph’s Day, but I’m a cannoli guy so that checks out.
My point is there are significant and real historical context to the bad of Columbus, there are also great and important things to celebrate that are Italian, and if not Columbus, then pick our Italian American hero, and it’s not about tearing down other ethnicities, but celebrating each, and those celebrations being about the real good of them all.
- JS Mill - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 2:03 pm:
=1) The actions of Columbus and the men under his command were contemporaneously recognized as a moral atrocity by moral people — if immoral people refused to recognize his immorality, that is of no account.
2) No one is suggesting that we should build a time-machine to go back and drag Columbus to face 21st century justice, rather people are suggesting that we stop venerating someone who lead and participated in the systematic enslavement, rape and slaughter of thousands of men, women and children.=
I am not saying anything different. My comment (and I can see why sine this thread is about columbus) was not specific to columbus or the conquistadors, colonials, age of exploration. I get why it was taken that way and maybe I spoke to broadly.
I do agree with Maher though on that point he was making and it was not specific to columbus.
- thoughts matter - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 2:15 pm:
I don’t see the need for the holiday at all. I don’t think we should call it Columbus Day and then use it to celebrate Italian Americans in general. I don’t think it or Pulaski Day in March should be paid days off work for state workers. ( I was one). Those two days should be reduced to the level of Valentines and St. Patrick’s Days.
Yes, he found the new world. While he was supposed to be looking for a new route to elsewhere. He didn’t bring settlers to it, or fight for its independence. We already have Thanksgiving and I dependence Day for those two groups.
- H-W - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 2:18 pm:
= it’s not about tearing down other ethnicities, but celebrating each =
I can agree with this, in the context several have already suggested (e.g., celebrate immigration day as a state or national holiday, perhaps).
But I think “state-sanctioned celebration of state-sanctioned ethnic heritage event” invites fair criticism.
Ethnic enclaves and heritage surrounding ethnic villages and ghettos (ghetto refers to an ethnic village within a community where minorities were assigned residence) - these things make sense in terms of community sentiment. Hence, local celebrations at the community level do not need be problematic (unless their purpose is to exclude).
I personally am looking forward to Oktoberfest in the Quad Cities this weekend. I can learn more about German American culture at the community level.
But expecting Governors to attend and validate ethnic heritages seems inappropriate. I am not in favor of state-sanctioned, symbolic ethnicity.
State-sanctioned ethnicity evokes notions of white, European privilege, in some cases, and some is too many.
To the post, the problem is not Italian American celebrations in Chicago. The problems is the supposition that the governor and the mayor should have attended. Keep it local.
- low level - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 2:25 pm:
JS, i appreciate your comments but the problem with Maher’s statement is that there were people of that time who condemned the actions taken. The fact is that one side’s version was accepted without question until relatively recently.
- A - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 2:30 pm:
What about Slovak Day? We built the railroads (of course with others but were a heavy component). My ancestors were victims too apparently. Undoubtedly they were abused serfs (slaves) on some feudal lord’s manor just like so many in the past.
- Miso - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 2:57 pm:
Here’s an inconvenient fact. Several Native American tribes including Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, and Creek and owned slaves. Can we at least mention that in the debate?
- Miso - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 3:02 pm:
1) The actions of the Cherokee were contemporaneously recognized as a moral atrocity by moral people — if immoral people refused to recognize this immorality, that is of no account.
2) No one is suggesting that we should build a time-machine to go back and drag the Cherokee to face 21st century justice, rather people are suggesting that we stop venerating a tribe who participated in the systematic enslavement, rape and slaughter of thousands of men, women and children.
The Emancipation Proclamation didn’t even cover the Indian lands. They kept on with enslavement for a whole additional year.
- MisterJayEm - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 3:04 pm:
JS Mill,
Got it.👍
– MrJM
- MisterJayEm - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 3:15 pm:
“stop venerating a tribe”
If you can show an instance where people are venerating Cherokee slave-owners, you might look like less of a fool.
– MrJM
- Soccermom - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 3:19 pm:
Mister Jay Em and JS Mill —
This is a great primer on Columbus.
https://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day
- Soccermom - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 3:20 pm:
“Columbus discovered the New World like the meteorite discovered dinosaurs.”
- Early Illinoisan - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 3:38 pm:
J.S. Mill
Well said. “Indigenous” peoples is inaccurate. Native Americans is mildly insulting and also inaccurate. I have personally found “First Nations” to be the most accurate and respectful. It was indeed an organized culture, albeit a neolithic and particularly violent one itself.
- cermak_rd - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 4:15 pm:
If you don’t like Mother Cabrini, how about Frances Cabrini day? She did a lot of good, founded schools and orphanages. The Catholic bits doesn’t have to be a major theme. Really she was an educator and social worker, it’s just at the time it was hard for women to do those kinds of things without being part of a religious organization.
- cermak_rd - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 4:18 pm:
I am a Jewish-German. I celebrate German days on the 3rd of Oct (Tag der Deutschen Einheit and of course, Oktoberfest) and the Jewish I celebrate every Shabbat.
I wouldn’t say no to an Albert Einstein though. If we could get Columbus switched over to Tesla we could really throw ourselves into Physics oriented celebration.
- Scott - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 4:18 pm:
I also would like to second (or fourth…can’t tell how many people chimed in on this) the vote for Enrico Fermi Day. His birthday was September 29th, so you just shift the day back by about a week and a half and call it Fermi Day to honor the contributions that Italian Americans made to our country (but especially to science).
- don the legend - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 7:03 pm:
OW, this is for you.
=And it would be a shame, Mr. Chairman, if we allowed a few rotten apples to give a bad name to the whole barrel. Because from the time of the great Christopher Columbus up through the time of Enrico Fermi right up until the present day, Italian-Americans have been pioneers in building and defending our great nation.==
- Candy Dogood - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 7:11 pm:
Late to the show, but if Italian Americans want a mulligan I think they should consider identifying a different Italian to celebrate. Absolutely none of Columbus’ voyages touched North America or the Continental United States. Even if we overlook all of the obvious problems with Columbus’ legacy, his actual connection to the United States and Italian Americans is pretty lax.
Instead of insisting upon celebrating Columbus Day and or Christopher Columbus, we should move on to an Italian American worth celebrating, honoring, or acknowledging. If we want to go through the effort of making it a federal holiday — okay, sounds good to me — but lets not insist on celebrating someone as vile as Christopher Columbus simply because he was born in Genoa. We don’t need to make this a false dichotomy.
- Dry Blanket - Tuesday, Oct 11, 22 @ 8:11 pm:
These Joint Civic types ignore that, for those of us who claim Italian ancestry, the real day to celebrate has always been March 19th, St. Joseph’s Day. Always was, always will be.