* I got a little pushback from the Bailey campaign yesterday for highlighting his belief that the state should cut education funding. So, let’s go back to the interview because I get the distinct impression that he’s going to try to spin away from his Crain’s editorial board comments during tonight’s debate…
Q: Are there any no-go zones, things that you absolutely would not want to see in reductions in [state] spending?
Bailey: Everybody’s on the table. Let’s talk about education. Here in Chicago $29,000 per student, the highest in the nation [Editor’s note: It’s more like $15K]. $29,000 being spent per student. I think the rest of the state is close to 20 on average [Editor’s note: It’s more like $16K] we expend when our schools are failing. Our colleges are some of the most expensive in the nation, and our children are being forced out of state going to other colleges because of tuition. That shouldn’t be happening. It’s transparency. It’s accountability. It’s taking a look at things that they were putting too much money in and making the situation transparent.
I’m not sure how cutting spending is going to lower property taxes or tuition or increase learning. And since he also wants fewer mandates, I doubt he’d demand that school boards rein in administrative salaries.
* Back to the interview…
Q: I think we all know that property taxes are so high here because local school districts pick up a large share of the property tax, the cost of educating your kids. The big question I have for you is what is the state’s role in education? What should it be? Because it sounds like you’re talking about unfunded mandates. So what is the state’s function? Should the state be paying more money for education or less money?
Bailey: The state should be paying less money. The state should be pulling back, letting the local school boards determine how they want to educate their children, offering school choice. So one thing Governor Pritzker you know, when you talk about these facts. There’s other states, they may be spending 48%. They’re not spending 20, 29,000 on their students. When we see problems here, when Governor Pritzker has a problem they just throw more money at the issue without any accountability whatsoever. I mean, the overwhelming majority of schoolchildren in Chicago Public Schools, do you realize this, they cannot read or do math at grade level. The majority of high school students over all of Illinois cannot read or do math at grade level. That’s a problem. [From the administration: “Illinois has some of the most rigorous learning standards in the nation: ranking fourth most rigorous for 4th grade reading and fifth most rigorous for 8th grade reading. In Illinois, a student needs to earn a level of 4 or 5 to be considered proficient. In comparison, the rigor of Florida’s standards ranks 39th and 42nd, respectively, and a student only needs to earn a level 3 on the state assessment to be considered proficient”] Why aren’t we tackling those issues? But now we think it’s good to let’s let’s add new curriculum, SB818, sex education curriculum, let’s add new curriculum so we have to hire new teachers, train people, and that binding curriculum [It’s not binding], that’s Gov. Pritzker’s, that’s his dream for Illinois. And that’s destroying us. We have got to pull back. We need to be getting vocational and trade classes back in our school. We need to be teaching our children how to live and how a function, how to run a business. That’s the future of Illinois. And we’re not doing that, we’re not doing anything except throwing more money at the schools, demanding more out of the schools and so we have a high weighted administration.
Vocational education costs money, too. Cut the funds and… magic?
* Interview…
Q: The argument that the state pulls back or doesn’t play a larger role, we’re going to have these broad disparities in spending between school districts. And so a child’s opportunity is going to depend basically, on where they are. And so how do you respond to that argument? Is that a valid argument? Because if you have one school district spending $10,000 per student and another one in New Trier expending, whatever, 30, you’re gonna have different outcomes over the long run.
Bailey: People have choices. And if that’s taking place and their property taxes are high, then they get to determine ‘Am I gonna stay here and live here and pay these property taxes? Or am I gonna move somewhere else where my property taxes aren’t as high?’
They’re all gonna have higher property taxes with lower state funding, even if state mandates are cut.
* Some of the following passages were a little garbled…
Bailey: What is good for New Trier is not good for Clay County, Illinois. Most, many of our children are, some of our children are going to go to the military. They’re going to go right into the workforce. There’s welders, pipe fitters, linemen. So that’s what public education needs to be.
Q: You’re implying that because they’re going to become a [trades person] they don’t need the same kind of level of education that somebody up here [may require].
Bailey: Well, that’s Southern Illinois. That’s the line of work that if you want to stay in Southern Illinois, that’s the line of work that’s most prevalent. Used to be coal mining, it used to be working in the oil fields. It used to be working on the farm. But because of the regulations, oil’s being regulated, even though we’re going to haul coal from Wyoming to power plants over the eastern seaboard. And we’re just kind of blinded to all these things that should be so awesome for Illinois.
Q: So that kid doesn’t need the same kind of education?
Bailey: You’re implying with that with money. Money is not the solution to a good education. Period.
Also, it should probably not go unnoticed that just a few years after the state came up with a bipartisan plan to equitably fund schools, people like Bailey and the far-right groups are now demanding reduced K-12 spending.
* This all brings to mind a Madeline Doubek column from the 1990s…
Suburban legislators understand downstate communities don’t have the property wealth the suburbs have, but some, like Republican state Sen. Marty Butler of Park Ridge, question whether downstate residents are putting a proportional share of money into their schools.
“People wanted good schools and bought into the idea that it’s costly,” Butler says of the suburbs. “Downstate, they either were willing or content to let the schools kind of coast along.” […]
Much has been made about the fact that a North Shore district spends $15,744 annually per student, while downstate St. Rose Elementary District spends only $2,932.
But the numbers that may have more meaning in the suburbs are ones that show some suburban school districts get little more than $230 in state funds per student, while others outside the suburbs get as much as $2,000.
And now that some of the poorer districts are finally getting significantly more money, Bailey wants to constrict the pipeline.
By the way, St. Rose Elementary District just happens to be in Bailey’s new state Senate district. Oh, the irony.
- Ron Burgundy - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 12:40 pm:
So, use made up numbers to justify cutting spending, while at the same time calling for unfunded expansion in certain areas of curriculum and teacher hiring? Got it. Someone needs a remedial course in basic math.
- Cornfield Cowboy - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 12:40 pm:
St. Rose is in Plummer’s District.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 12:41 pm:
Receipts.
There are receipts, Bailey Crew.
Nothing is in a vacuum. Welcome to big time campaigns.
- ArchPundit - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 12:42 pm:
===Vocational education costs money, too. Cut the funds and… magic?
Exactly.In fact, it often takes more in terms of infrastructure and equipment.
The reason we moved some or most of vocational ed to community & tech colleges is that specialized equipment is hard to keep up & specialized faculty are hard to hire in school districts–especially small rural school districts.
However, there are a number of things districts can do to prepare student for technical programs and it still isn’t cheap. Employers still want people who can communicate and do relevant math so creating courses that are contextualized to tech areas is important. That’s different from the traditional 4 year college math and English (though even for 4 year colleges the math and English requirements are becoming broader).
- Ron Burgundy - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 12:43 pm:
-Q: You’re implying that because they’re going to become a [trades person] they don’t need the same kind of level of education that somebody up here [may require].
Bailey: Well, that’s Southern Illinois. That’s the line of work that if you want to stay in Southern Illinois, that’s the line of work that’s most prevalent.-
Those jobs are important, but perhaps we can aim higher. That area also needs professionals and the ability to attract high-skilled manufacturing jobs, or it will continue its slow decline. Resurrecting dying industries like coal isn’t the answer.
- Red Ketcher - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 12:44 pm:
D. Bailey’s Clay County philosophy appears to be:
” Keep the kids dumb, they’ll be easier to con”
Sad
- Boone's is Back - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 12:46 pm:
What a trainwreck. Bring back Brady and the puppy euthanasia ads. I think he’d fare better.
- Da big bad wolf - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 12:49 pm:
=== Vocational education costs money, too. Cut the funds and… magic?===
I’m guessing vocational education costs more than conventional education. Math you might have a blackboard, chalk and textbooks. Shop class you have power tools that need to be bought and maintained, plus hazardous waste like metal filings and sawdust that have to be removed.
- Norseman - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 12:50 pm:
OW is right in asking for receipts. Bailey will not provide them. OW and most everyone else knows Bailey is just spouting baloney to make it look like his ideas are justifiable.
- G'Kar - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 12:56 pm:
==Most, many of our children are, some of our children are going to go to the military.==
“Most, many, some”, well that sort of covers it, doesn’t it?/s
- Big Dipper - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 12:58 pm:
You don’t get trapped in the cycle of outrageous statement/backpedal if you don’t make the statement in the first place.
- Southern - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 1:02 pm:
St. Rose is a public school that uses a school building owned by the Catholic Church, at virtually no cost.
- JS Mill - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 1:04 pm:
= OW and most everyone else knows Bailey is just spouting baloney to make it look like his ideas are justifiable.=
We mostly used to chuckle when someone would “enhance” a fishing or hunting story. Heck, everyone knew Reagan had a penchant to exaggerate sometimes. It was folksy and made the stories a bit more interesting.
But bailey just outright lies. A 10 second Google search provides the average cost per pupil is 19% lower than what bailey stated.
He is a sad and lazy (I think physically and intellectually) liar.
- Jerry - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 1:14 pm:
This would be my question for Darrin. What are the educational requirements for employment with the Illinois Department of Corrections?
Those are well paying jobs with good benefits. Not to mention the bump in tax revenue because the incarcerated count towards the census.
- Blue Bayou - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 1:18 pm:
If students are going out of state because of high tuition, it’s due to disinvestment by the previous administration and by the state leg for many years.
There’s this, too:
https://www.neiu.edu/news/northeastern-illinois-university-tops-us-news-world-report-low-student-debt
- Arsenal - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 1:21 pm:
==Money is not the solution to a good education.==
Like with everything else, you have to pay for talent. Good teachers cost money.
But the single animating idea of ILGOP right now is that everyone should have to take a pay cut to keep the Ken Griffins of the world happy.
- Rudy’s teeth - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 1:34 pm:
To refute Bailey’s statement regarding math and reading scores for students: Five of the top ten high schools in the state of Illinois are in Chicago.
Bet that those students can construct sentences using active voice, passive voice, and subjunctive mood.
- 48th Ward Heel - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 1:37 pm:
Southern Illinois has always had doctors, lawyers, bankers and teachers and a good-sized university, and they’ve suddenly become critical to women’s health for some reason.
I knew they had a lot of coal down there but this is the first I’m hearing about oil fields.
- JoanP - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 1:41 pm:
@ 48th Ward Heel:
https://www2.illinois.gov/dnr/OilandGas/pages/aboutoilandgasinillinois.aspx
- Flapdoodle - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 1:47 pm:
I tried several times to compose a response to this most recent Darren Bailey inanity in language suitable for this blog. Phrases like “willful ignorance,” “shriveled imagination,” “smug self-satisfaction,” “inability to empathize,” and “dogmatic complacency” came to mind. But I wasn’t sure such possibly uncivil language about a public figure would get by the blog’s filters.
Unfortunately, the alternative language that came to mind, although more colorful, would have definitely led to a permanent ban, so it’s out, too.
Then it occurred to me that one of the best arguments against Bailey’s ideas about cutting education funding is Bailey himself, and who wants more Bailey in their life? In fact, maybe Bailey actually provides an excellent argument for *increasing* education funding. The slogan possibilities are endless.
- Henry Francis - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 2:01 pm:
Is Bailey harkening back to the good ol days of . . . coal mining?
Less education, more coal mining?
- Medvale School for the Gifted - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 2:05 pm:
One can see Darren’s policies at work:
“Son, you’re going to be a coal miner. Stand over there.
“Young lady, you will be a waitress. Get in that line.
“Young man, stand over there in that line. Soon we’re going to get us some internets and you can look up parts in the John Deere dealer and have them delivered to the shop…”
- Streator Curmudgeon - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 2:10 pm:
Darren Bailey is just the latest version of the Republican philosophy: Cut taxes, smaller government.
I’ve been watching the GOP work this scam my entire life. Everything needs constant maintenance, from schools to prisons to roads and bridges.
But Republicans don’t do that. Instead, they let everything go to pot while they’re in office then pounce on Democrats who have to play catch up with that needed maintenance. Then the GOP breaks out the old “tax and spend” grift.
If Bailey’s logic holds, then we should cut back on farm subsidies, because most Illinoisans don’t need them.
- Skeptic - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 2:14 pm:
St. Rose is also teeny-tiny.
“…go into the military” Yet I’d bet these same folks would raise heck about a Federal jobs program.
- btowntruthfromforgottonia 5 - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 2:16 pm:
==Money is not the solution to a good education.==
You want the premium,you have to pay the premium.
- Manchester - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 2:17 pm:
Beetle’s ignorance never ceases to amaze me. The scary part of it is that there is a significant part of our population that agrees with him.
- Vote Quimby - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 2:23 pm:
== the first I’m hearing about oil fields==
About 100 years ago, oil was discovered in southern Illinois and led to “boom towns” littered around the countryside. Most have since withered away, although some still remain..often with nothing more than a few houses and a zip code. There used to be several refineries in the 618 area code, although the only ones left I am aware of are in Robinson (southeast) and Wood River (near St. Louis). After I left my hometown, when coming back to visit I told my kids you could always tell when the price of oil was high as we could see the rocking horse-type pumps going rather than being still. If you want to learn more about the subject, here is a good link:
https://isgs.illinois.edu/outreach/geology-resources/oil-fields-illinois
- Vote Quimby - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 2:26 pm:
and if you click on the link, you will read about something called a “hydrocarbon kitchen.” That sounds like a cool name for a band…
- JS Mill - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 2:28 pm:
=If Bailey’s logic holds, then we should cut back on farm subsidies, because most Illinoisans don’t need them.=
The 2021 Dept of Ag budget was $146 billion of 3.65% of the overall budget. But only 1% (being very generous) of our population farms. Using bailey’s logic we can easily cut 3.65% of the over all budget since not many people farm.
- supplied_demand - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 2:47 pm:
==Money is not the solution to a good education.==
And yet, more money for cops is their only “solution” on crime. Can I see an ROI analysis?
- Arsenal - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 3:08 pm:
==And yet, more money for cops is their only “solution” on crime.==
Well, to be fair, Bailey voted against *that*, too.
- H-W - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 3:17 pm:
= Money is not the solution to a good education. Period. =
Ask Naperville to spend less. Ask the best schools to spend less. Ask every school district to spend less.
Then just watch how much better educated our children become with less educational spending.
Wait for our standardized education results to improve as we take money away from schools. Just wait.
Racing to the bottom will only make us resemble bottom dwellers (think Mississippi, South Carolina, etc.).
Most people who suggest money is irrelevant to education almost certainly have no idea what they are talking about. The others are politicians. None are experts in education.
The idea that with less we get more is nuts.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 3:29 pm:
===St. Rose is in Plummer’s District. ===
Yes, I’m aware. Bailey and Plummer were mapped in together.
- Huh? - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 3:33 pm:
Ask beetle much many bushels of corn and beans he can grow if he cuts the amount of fertilizers, herbicides, and pesticides he uses in half.
- Joe Bidenopolous - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 4:02 pm:
=but this is the first I’m hearing about oil fields.=
Vote Quimby +1
Bailey’s area down to KY has a bunch of oil. Natural gas too. As VQ alluded to, it’s expensive to extract. When I was growing up, I think the break even was about $30-$35/bbl so the pumps were idle back then more than they were in operation. That’s changed.
Operating costs are higher higher now, about equal with fracking, if not higher. That’s still enough for a profit in today’s market though.
- cermak_rd - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 4:22 pm:
The block I grew up on in Mattoon had an oil rocker down at the end of the block. Man did it smell when the wind blew from that direction. Sulphur. I’m guessing our oil has the same problem our coal does.
They capped it and hauled the rocker off in the 1980s, IIRC.
- JS Mill - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 4:36 pm:
=Bailey’s area down to KY has a bunch of oil=
Illinois oil production is about 20,000 barrels a day of 0.2% of US production.
So, a little bit?
- NoMoreMC - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 5:10 pm:
The Illinois Petroleum Resources Board has a lot of info on Illinois oil and gas production. https://iprb.org/
- Excitable Boy - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 7:26 pm:
It’s a pretty stunning thing the way Bailey views the children of his district, as if they’re not worthy of a well rounded education because they’re just going to join the military or the blue collar workforce. I’ve met tons of trades people over the years with an extremely diverse educational background, and ones that enjoy many interests beyond the skills necessary for their jobs. The same goes for veterans I know, including my high school dropout father who went to college and finished a bachelors degree in his fifties, and who has been a voracious lifelong reader.
On their behalf, bite me Darren. You may not value education, but you don’t speak for the rest of us from rural Illinois.
- Soccermom - Tuesday, Oct 18, 22 @ 7:45 pm:
One other point — in large urban systems like Chicago’s, there are often lots of parochial schools that skim off kids who do not have special needs. (In part because the old school buildings are not accessible.) So the cost per student is higher for the public schools that are educating a higher percentage of children with disabilities and other special needs.
- Give Us Barabbas - Wednesday, Oct 19, 22 @ 12:40 am:
Bailey seems to say southern Illinois doesn’t need it’s share of doctors, dentists, lawyers, engineers, teachers ( yeah, you go to school to learn how to teach, go figure) and other professions. His world view is exceptionally narrow and anti- intellectual.