* Stateline…
Even as anti-abortion legislators and advocates celebrated, they considered how much further they could go — perhaps by barring Tennesseans from seeking abortions in other states, or by restricting contraception.
But now, some GOP legislative leaders have returned to Nashville for the new session with a different attitude. Swayed by input from constituents and health care providers — and perhaps by a November poll showing that 75% of Tennesseans believe abortion should be legal in cases of rape and incest — some key Republicans say they want to add exceptions to the law. […]
Some Republicans in other states with strict abortion bans, including Texas and Wisconsin, also might be interested in adding rape and incest exceptions. But abortion rights supporters point out that few if any patients have qualified for abortions in the states that do have exceptions.
An August poll by the University of Texas showed that 78% of Texans support an exception for incest and 80% favor an exception for rape. GOP House Speaker Dade Phelan said at the Texas Tribune Festival in September that he has heard from House members who are concerned about the absence of exceptions.
Here’s the poll if you’re interested.
* Caveat…
Most state abortion bans with exceptions for rape and incest require victims to provide a police report proving the crime, adding an extremely challenging legal barrier that activists say are meant to discourage survivors from pursuing abortions.
* Politico…
Some state laws, for instance, require people to file a police report to qualify for a rape or incest exemption — a deterrent to marginalized groups that fear contact with law enforcement or those who don’t know how to navigate the legal system.
Ashley Coffield, the CEO of Tennessee’s Planned Parenthood Affiliate, said that in the 10 years she’s worked there, they never had a case of rape or incest qualify for Medicaid coverage. Planned Parenthood’s Missouri affiliate pointed to a similar record when asked why they oppose the push to add exceptions, saying that in the 18 months before Roe was overturned, only two of their patients qualified under the rape and incest exemptions for Medicaid coverage.
“They don’t actually protect patients in reality, and neither do medical emergency exemptions,” said Bonyen Lee-Gilmore, the spokesperson for the network’s St. Louis region clinics. “As the provider, we know that folks very rarely qualify.”
* County 10…
[Cristina Gonzales, a registered nurse and trained sexual assault nurse examiner]’s feedback focused on the caveat allowing abortions in the case of rape.
That exception “assumes that reporting an assault is available to all victims,” she said, “thus ignoring those in a community where justice for such crimes is unattainable.”
Many of the sexual assault survivors Gonzales worked with on the reservation were “resolved that justice would not be served” by a police report, she explained, and they “feared retaliation” from their assailants – often people they knew – if law enforcement got involved.
“Making a police report was not an option,” Gonzales said. “They feel unempowered to make police reports because of the fear of retaliation, from being ostracized, and from the violence that could come (from) the assailant’s family to their family.”
* New York Times…
An example of that disconnect is in Louisiana, which has exceptions for protecting the life or health of the patient and for deadly birth defects, and has reported zero abortions since its ban took effect. Mississippi, with exceptions for rape and protecting the life of the patient, has reported no more than two. Alabama, Kentucky, Missouri and Texas have exceptions for protecting a patient’s life or health and have reported similarly low abortion figures.
* More…
* USA Today | Pregnancy-related deaths up to 3 times more likely in states with abortion bans, report says: Women in states with abortion bans are up to three times more likely to die during pregnancy, childbirth or soon after giving birth, according to a new report. The report, published last week by the nonprofit research organization the Gender Equity Policy Institute, also found that states with abortion bans have higher infant mortality rates and teen pregnancy rates. “The data is clear,” researchers wrote. “For women, girls, and gender diverse people who can become pregnant, there are two Americas.” The findings align closely with a December study by the Commonwealth Fund, an independent health care research foundation, that found maternal death rates in 2020 were 62% higher in states with abortion bans or restrictions compared to states where abortion is accessible.
* The 19th | Rep. Nancy Mace warns her party to adopt a more ‘centrist’ abortion agenda or lose women voters: The anti-abortion South Carolina Republican wants her party to welcome exceptions to abortion bans, back expanding access to contraception and find “common ground” with Democrats. It’s not clear if anyone is listening.
* KVPI | Oklahoma Republicans banned most abortions. Now they want to carve out exceptions: The Youngs are working with House Majority Floor Leader Jon Echols, R-Oklahoma City, on a bill that would allow for a woman whose fetus has a fatal condition to go into labor early. Early induction of a live birth prior to 37 weeks of pregnancy — when a woman reaches full term — is currently considered an illegal abortion, Keri Young said.
* Idaho Capital Sun | Idaho attorneys ask federal judge for time to file new brief in abortion case: Representatives from the Idaho Attorney General Raúl Labrador’s office plan to file a new briefing in the U.S. Department of Justice lawsuit against the state over its abortion bans now that a new attorney general has taken office and the Idaho Supreme Court has upheld the laws.
* WFAA | Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick says Democrats are to blame for lack of rape/incest exceptions in Texas abortion law: “Our original law that’s on the books now was written by Democrats — all Democrats” Patrick said. “We had few Republicans back then, few Republicans in the state. They did not put in an exception for rape or incest when they passed that law.”
- vern - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 12:27 pm:
Abortion is the single biggest barrier to Republican success in Illinois. Their messaging on other issues doesn’t even get a hearing from key voters unless the messenger is pro-choice. The states experimenting with bans are fueling a message that exceptions do not work. Republicans have to find their way to some kind of pro-choice position, because that’s what voters want.
In a democracy, voters get what they want.
- John Lopez - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 12:29 pm:
Many in IL do not know about 2-term South Carolina Congresswoman Nancy Mace cited above. She is a rape survivor, and has consistently advocated for rape exception in spite of her pro-life stance.
Mace was also one of 1st women to graduate from The Citadel.
- ZC - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 12:29 pm:
I’ve seen some reputable polling data that measures how one significant change, post-Dobbs, is a percentage decline in Republicans telling pollsters that abortion should be illegal in “all” circumstances.
- New Day - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 12:35 pm:
How exactly is a 13 year old raped by her uncle supposed to file a police report?
- DHS Drone - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 12:36 pm:
Beyond bureaucratic barriers there is an infrastructure issue in these states. Clinics have closed and staff have moved on. Many of these exception only states will have no one to provide exception only abortions. While “exceptions” polls better than “no exceptions,” little is being done in states to actually make it possible for women to get these exception abortions. They are still going to have to travel to other states.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 12:37 pm:
=== I’ve seen some reputable polling data that measures how one significant change, post-Dobbs, is a percentage decline in Republicans telling pollsters that abortion should be illegal in “all” circumstances.===
Cite that. Please.
To the post,
Republicans that find themselves wanting to embrace the idea that a full ban is not what should be the position of the party find themselves in primaries where staunch pro-life opponents paint them as “Democrat Lite”
Keep in mind…
Bailey would say that abortion is “settled” in Illinois, not saying that abortion is a right a woman should have.
That’s the ball game. That’s the failure of the GOP.
The ILGOP does not see women’s rights… as important or something to be protected. “It’s settled”…
Until a pro-choice GOP here in Illinois can be welcomed as a policy in the ILGOP, none of this will matter, and the ILGOP will be marginalized and shut out of governing.
- DuPage Saint - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 12:42 pm:
I am old lived in suburbs all my life and am male. Was born and raised a Republican but I do not understand how the Republican Party supposedly small government and personal responsibility keep government out of your life has become so involved in controlling women’s rights. And what I see that is even more repugnant is it seems like it is all men telling women. It is not my party it is almost cult like on some issues and they reap what they sow
- Jerry - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 12:44 pm:
“Republicans have to find their way to some kind of pro-choice position, because that’s what voters want.”
When are Republicans doing to quit managing peoples lives?
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 12:46 pm:
Here’s how horrific the GOP position on abortion misses the mark to a right;
===…with exceptions for rape and incest require victims to provide a police report proving the crime===
So the sitch is you must prove you have a right to your body, otherwise that right to your body is dictated by a law restricting… rights.
How one can wonder that Dobbs mattered this past November?
It’s not a miss by the GOP or the ILGOP
Republicans do not see women’s rights as important… women’s rights need to be *earned ONLY by criminality*, and that others can tell women they can’t control their own choices or bodies.
Abortion will be a strong hindrance to the ILGOP/GOP until abortion, nationally, is legalized.
Otherwise… it’ll be the policy alienating women for as long as abortion is treated as an “earned” right.
- DHS Drone - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 12:55 pm:
In addition to all of this is the increasing bureaucratic hurdles to the “life of the mother” exception. Doctors, fearing prosecution, are now making women wait longer and longer until they deem their “life to be at risk.” Can’t call a miscarriage a miscarriage yet because of liability. Women being told to just go back home and call back if the pain and bleeding get worse.
- Amalia - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 12:56 pm:
oh yay Republicans have Nancy Mace. you know what? it’s her job to convince her fellow party members that their laws on reproductive choices are terrible for women. it’s not my job to get excited about her because she’s right, because she’s not remotely representative of her party.
- Chicago Republican - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 1:02 pm:
People have a sincere belief that abortion takes a human life. How can a person that holds that position, allow for exceptions?
- Northsider - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 1:11 pm:
The Republican National Committee is slouching, nay, sprinting, in the other direction: RNC Passes Resolution Urging Party To ‘Go On Offense’ With Anti-Abortion Bills In 2024 Run-Up
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 1:16 pm:
=== People have a sincere belief that abortion takes a human life. How can a person that holds that position, allow for exceptions?===
The politics to this, to a party, makes the ILGOP and the GOP dangerous to women and women’s health.
Between the want for unrestricted assault weapons and full restrictions on abortion, the GOP in Illinois will not only keep losing, keep losing the suburbs and women specifically, but will keep losing any chance at being seen as an option to rational governing.
- Amalia - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 1:20 pm:
@chicago republican, lol, the same party that was/is ok with the death penalty….. you devalue the life of women when you hold the potential life over an in the world one
- Homebody - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 1:22 pm:
@Oswego Willy: == The ILGOP does not see women’s rights… as important or something to be protected. “It’s settled”… ==
As I recall, that is exactly what every Republican SCOTUS nominee said during confirmation hearings too.
Things only remain settled as long as we actively keep regressives out of power.
- New Day - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 1:25 pm:
“People have a sincere belief that abortion takes a human life. How can a person that holds that position, allow for exceptions?”
Does the woman’s life not count?
- Jerry - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 1:31 pm:
@chicago republican
Republicans constantly lecture about the “Constitution” and “Freedom”. Yet they insist on micro-managing an individuals most personal decisions. How can they have both positions?
- Nuke The Whales - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 1:34 pm:
Me: Reads Republican exemption opinion. *flashes back to when retired police lieutenant turned Missouri State Representative Barry Hovis claiming that most rapes are consensual rapes and therefore we need not include an exemption.*
Generally speaking, what if the cop just goes “well, can’t prove you were attacked so…”
- Sir Reel - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 1:34 pm:
Republicans had almost 50 years to figure this out and couldn’t get it right (banning abortions but with publicly supported exceptions). The F Troop party.
- Lincoln Lad - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 1:42 pm:
So a 13 year old raped by her father needs to file a police report to be eligible for an abortion. Believe me, I want them to. Believe me, I can think of a lot of reasons that won’t happen. Does anyone coming up with this stuff have any idea of what it means to be a victim?
- Demoralized - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 1:59 pm:
==People have a sincere belief that abortion takes a human life. How can a person that holds that position, allow for exceptions?==
I’ve never understood this argument when it comes to an exception for the life of the mother. Why do you believe it is your business to tell a family which life they must choose.
I personally don’t like abortions. But I also would never impose my will on others. It’s none of my business. It’s nobody’s business.
- RNUG - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 2:08 pm:
Unfortunately, voters don’t do nuance. But the GOP needs to become more nuanced.
The whole abortion issue is, in my opinion, an example of the slippery slope. When abortion was first ‘approved’, it was supposed to allow for abortion in cases of rape, incest, and to protect the life of the mother. A lot of conservatives I know could live with that position.
It’s just like the gun control debate, where the two sides are talking at cross purposes. I don’t expect either to be resolved in whatever remains of my lifetime.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 2:19 pm:
=== When abortion was first ‘approved’, it was supposed to allow for abortion in cases of rape, incest, and to protect the life of the mother. A lot of conservatives I know could live with that position.===
Is that Roe?
- /s - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 2:32 pm:
== what if the cop just goes “well, can’t prove you were attacked so…” ==
Let alone the cops that try to talk survivors out of filing a report, guilting survivors about ruining the guy’s life, etc.
Additionally, this doesn’t take into account the psychological trauma involved. As a rape survivor, it took me almost six years and lots of therapy to even be able to admit that I was raped. I never would have been able to report it in the timeframe required to have obtained an abortion under these so-called exemptions had my rape resulted in pregnancy.
- Captain Obvious - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 2:40 pm:
Willy - If I am dangerous to women’s health, you and your ilk are certainly dangerous to babies’ health. Not many pregnant women die due to pregnancy, but every baby dies when they are aborted. And I would certainly make an exception to save the life of a mother. I feel sorry for you that you have so little compassion and empathy for the most defenseless among us.
- Jerry - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 2:56 pm:
Roe was based on the precedent set in Griswold…when married couples finally had the could use contraceptives, freely. Its a Conservative decision (if, by Conservative, you mean smaller government).
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 2:58 pm:
- Jerry -
With respect, I was asking - RNUG - the context of his own words, and what was his meaning in them.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 3:03 pm:
=== If I am dangerous to women’s health===
“If” your context is to refuse women’s health options and forcibly require women to carry pregnancies to term…
… also, do yourself a solid, find where the United States falls in childbirth mortality, mother and child.
It’s obvious you are clueless to where the US falls…
=== Not many pregnant women die due …===
An utterly pathetic take.
Are you also male, as you are telling women that “not many women die” and thinking that women searching for safe places for medical help is not your “thing”
- Jerry - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 3:04 pm:
- OW -
Sorry for jumping in.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 3:15 pm:
=== Sorry for jumping in.===
No, no, by all means, jump in, it’s the context to - RNUG - was my question to his take is all.
No worries, “carry on”, I was more relating that I was still waiting to hear that context.
Be well.
- SweetLou86 - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 3:20 pm:
Vern is exactly right. There’s entire swaths of suburban Cook that for decades voted *mostly* Democratic, but always tried to find one Republican they could vote for to say they were independents. Those Republicans were folks like Beth Coulson and Rosemary Mulligan, who were both pro-choice. It was the move rightward on that singular issue that helped lock up the near-suburbs for Dems a decade ago (remember that Rauner said he didn’t care about abortion and that was good enough for a lot of these voters). You now have a generation of voters in areas that used to be represented by a pro-choice Republican who’ve only ever voted for a Democrat and that’s a very difficult habit to break
- Grandson of Man - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 3:21 pm:
“that found maternal death rates in 2020 were 62% higher in states with abortion bans or restrictions compared to states where abortion is accessible”
Not a surprise that there are many more maternal deaths in states with abortion bans. Those are states generally with higher per capita gun deaths, lower wages, fewer covered by health insurance. That’s the red state model.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 3:27 pm:
- SweetLou86 -
Would voters “trust” Republicans that now require pro-life credentials, and here would be these Mulligans running and the party is asking the zealots to purity to welcome such candidate?
Bailey received 56+% in a 6-way race.
Districts are indeed different than statewide, but primary voters seem to find the extreme far too often, even in districts.
You have a party not wanting to trust moderates.
That’s where and why the party is shrinking
- Nick Name - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 3:29 pm:
===People have a sincere belief that abortion takes a human life. How can a person that holds that position, allow for exceptions?===
As long as Republicans maintain a sincere belief that there should be no restriction to access to semi-auto assault weapons, I will not believe them when they express concern that abortion takes a human life
- Lincoln Lad - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 3:31 pm:
That red state model is bad for its citizenry. Yet they continue to vote for those who are not seeking to represent their interests. Unless your extremely wealthy I guess… Makes no sense.
- Pundent - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 4:03 pm:
=But the GOP needs to become more nuanced.=
Nuance only works if the voters are willing to trust you. I have no reason to trust the GOP on a topic that was previously claimed to be “settled.”
- JoanP - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 4:16 pm:
@Captain Obvious -
How many women are “not many”? To their families, one is TOO many.
- Demoralized - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 4:35 pm:
==I feel sorry for you that you have so little compassion and empathy ==
I feel sorry for you that you think anybody has any business being involved in the individual medical decisions of a family. It’s not your right nor is it any of your business to tell someone what they should do.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 4:38 pm:
=== I feel sorry for you that you think anybody has any business being involved in the individual medical decisions of a family. It’s not your right nor is it any of your business to tell someone what they should do.===
Amen
Freedom, my “eye”…
Forcing any woman, a 13 year old, to carry a pregnancy to term… for “you”… that’s not freedom.
- RNUG - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 4:46 pm:
== With respect, I was asking - RNUG - the context of his own words, and what was his meaning in them. ==
Short answer: I was referring to the general legal landscape and understanding, which varied State to State, that ended up more or less as a discovered Federal privacy right in Roe. Since then there have been various lines drawn, usually based on time / duration, between permitted and banned.
I’ll stop at that point or we’ll both end up writing doctoral thesis.
- Jibba - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 4:49 pm:
Captain Obvious: You clearly have a sincere belief in the rights of the unborn. The more important question is whether you feel comfortable pushing your beliefs on others, or would you allow them to make their own choices based on their own sincere beliefs. Until the GOP gets to yes on that, I am permanently “no” on them.
- RNUG - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 5:22 pm:
-OW- … I’ll add that we actually got off topic into this specific discussion (when is abortion acceptable) last Sunday night during a Bible study session at church. As you might guess, the majority were pro-life with some permitted exceptions.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 5:29 pm:
- RNUG -
Thanks, as always. And always appreciate your takes.
===that ended up more or less as a discovered Federal privacy right in Roe. Since then there have been various lines drawn===
Ok.
What Roe did is in effect create these “trigger laws” as the idea of state’s regulating fell with Roe.
My questioning point was specifically to that, and Roe nationalizing and now Dobbs making it a state issue and women arguably being treated and seen different.
As a Catholic, which I’ve mentioned dozens of times, as a Catholic I am pro-life, with exceptions, as your Bible study seemed to have too.
My take has been that my belief should not be the governing principle to women’s health, as as my family is pro-life, I would my want any member unable to have easy, safe, and uninhibited access to an abortion if needed or wanted for any reason they would find.
Be well, bud.
Thanks.
- ZC - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 5:38 pm:
Oswego Willy 12:37,
OK I went and looked for it. And for now I have to retract my claim. My source was Natalie Jackson of the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI) whom I consider a credible pollster. She tweeted out this really interesting time-series with Republicans and abortion in “all” circumstances. She’s also now deleted that tweet, however. So, maybe something about it, did not withstand critical scrutiny when she examined it more. No idea. Guess we’ll have to wait and see.
The GSS asks this exact question, so when 2022/23 data becomes available, that will be a time to check this question again. But it’s not out yet.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 6:23 pm:
- ZC -
Thanks. Appreciate the follow up
- JS Mill - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 6:24 pm:
=I feel sorry for you that you have so little compassion and empathy for the most defenseless among us.=
Says another one of the pro-gun violence people.
- RNUG - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 7:04 pm:
-OW-
Sounds like similar upbringing, etc. including Catholic elementary, secondary, and college. As obvious from my previous comment, still attend a conservative leaning Christian church, just not a Catholic one.
As to State versus Federal, there were periods post Roe when the Democrat party had full control of both the Legislative and Executive branch at the Federal level, sometimes even veto-proof control, and could have codified a national standard. One can speculate why they never did …
The left had warning that Roe might someday be overturned. Even Ginsburg, while agreeing with the end result of Roe, said she thought it was decided on incorrect grounds (privacy instead of individual rights), and thus Roe was at risk, but very few took her warning seriously. So now, post Dobbs, we are back to this inconsistent State by State regulation … and, IMO, various States have gone too far to both ends of the possible spectrum.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 7:23 pm:
- RNUG -
Good stuff, bud. Yep, similar indeed.
It will be a long while, but it will swing back and then abortion will find its way to a national stage to its own reconciling.
It might take a long while, so now it’s hopscotching states.
Truly, be well.
- Odysseus - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 8:46 pm:
“It’s just like the gun control debate, where the two sides are talking at cross purposes.”
I only see one side talking about how we reduce the number of people killed by guns.
- Cosgrove - Monday, Jan 30, 23 @ 10:06 pm:
Bumper sticker on my car says “Against abortion? Don’t have one.” Not sure why it needs to be more complicated than that.