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ComEd Four trial verdict coverage roundup
Wednesday, May 3, 2023 - Posted by Isabel Miller * Press releases with reactions to the verdict will be posted later this morning…
* Sun-Times | ComEd jurors say they didn’t believe the jobs and money that went to Madigan allies were just legal lobbying: During their weeklong deliberations, jurors “ached about” how the allegations crossed the line from legal lobbying into criminal activity, according to the jury foreperson, Sarah Goldenberg. “The term we reviewed heavily was goodwill, where goodwill is to have those relationships with representatives in the political arena for the benefit of the company you’re associated with. And we felt this went beyond goodwill to ‘intent to influence,’” said Goldenberg, a 34-year-old data analyst. * Capitol News Illinois | ‘ComEd Four’ found guilty on all counts in bribery trial tied to ex-Speaker Madigan: Speaking to reporters after the verdict, jury member Amanda Schnitker Sayers said the jury grew to like the defendants over the course of the trial. “All in all, they’re good people that made bad decisions,” she said. Schnitker Sayers said the jury stayed away from discussing Madigan outside of his role in the case at hand, but said they came to believe the speaker’s involvement with ComEd “was key.” “He really did cause this all to happen,” she said. “If it wouldn’t have been for him, these people would not have been in the position that they would need to commit crimes in the first place.” * Sun-Times | ComEd verdicts jolt Illinois political world — sparking strong reactions from Republicans (and a few Democrats): “Since taking office, Gov. Pritzker has advanced the case of ethics reform in key areas, especially in bringing more transparency to the process and tightening requirements for lobbyists. The Governor believes we must restore the public’s trust in government and today’s verdicts are proof that no one is above the law,” governor’s office spokeswoman Jordan Abudayyeh said in a statement. * CBS Chicago | Guilty verdict in ‘ComEd 4′ trial is likely to be bad news for Mike Madigan: “I don’t want to speak for the whole jury about Madigan, we tried not to discuss him as far as outside of this case. But his involvement with this case, of course, was key – and our perception was that he really did cause this all to happen,” said juror Amanda Schnitker Sayers. “If it wouldn’t have been for him, these people would not have been in this position they would need to commit crimes in the first place.” * ABC Chicago | All defendants found guilty on all counts in ‘ComEd 4′ trial surrounding ex-Speaker Mike Madigan: “The state of Illinois unfortunately has a deep-seated public corruption problem. Corruption that erodes and eats away at the people’s confidence in their government and in their elected officials. Rooting out and prosecuting those who participate in that corruption has been, is and will continue to be the top priority of the United States Attorney’s Office,” said acting US Attorney Morris Pasqual after the verdict was announced. * WTTW | ‘ComEd Four’ Found Guilty of Conspiring to Bribe Former Illinois House Speaker Michael Madigan: When Madigan said jump, MacArthur said, the defendants asked “how high.” Prosecutors argued the four did this through a number of means, including paying Madigan allies as ComEd subcontractors, who in turn would actually do little or no work for the utility company. They also allegedly offered a lucrative contract to a law firm run by Madigan ally Victor Reyes and fought to get Juan Ochoa appointed to the ComEd board of directors at the former speaker’s behest. * WGN | ‘ComEd Four’ found guilty in bribery trial: Bhachu likened the alleged conspiracy to a toll that drivers pay to continue their journey on state highways, and suggested Madigan was the gatekeeper. “It was a corruption toll to make sure that Mr. Madigan was not an obstacle to their legislative agenda,” said Bhachu, according to the Chicago Tribune. “And they paid that toll every month, from 2011 to 2019, when they were caught.” * Tribune | Illinois lawmakers react to ‘ComEd Four’ convictions and actions that led to them: ‘Shockingly gluttonous and unhealthy to democracy’: “How many indictments is too many? How many more court rulings do we need to make unethical behavior stop?” state House Republican Leader Tony McCombie of Savanna said at a GOP news conference following the verdicts. “There’s definitely some folks on the other side of the aisle that are honest, transparent and work in good faith. Now whether or not they can get the rest of the Democratic caucus to follow their lead will be the question that only time will tell.” * WAND | Illinois House Republicans demand ethics reform following ComEd Four guilty verdict: Rep. Patrick Windhorst (R-Metropolis) said the Legislative Inspector General should also be given subpoena powers to help the office perform thorough investigations and root out bad behavior. State senators voted on a joint resolution to appoint former judge Michael McCuskey as the next Inspector General on Feb. 16, 2022. Former Legislative Inspector General Carol Pope told state lawmakers in July 2021 that she would resign at the end of that year. She later pushed back her exit date, hoping to help a successor transition into the role. * BGA | “ComEd Four” Trial Underscores Need for Strengthened Ethics Reforms: In response to today’s guilty verdict in the federal corruption of former ComEd CEO Anne Pramaggiore, lobbyist Mike McClain, former ComEd lobbyist John Hooker, and former lobbyist and City Club president Jay Hooker, Better Government Association President David Greising said the following: “The jury’s guilty verdict on all counts strikes a blow against the culture of corruption that for years has robbed Illinois residents of their right to an honest and accountable government. It is a flat rejection of the claim that the systematic effort to corruptly influence House Speaker Mike Madigan was just ‘politics as usual.’ The jury spoke for all Illinoisans in demanding better from government officials, as well as from businesses and lobbyists who seek to influence policies that affect all Illinoisans, not just the connected, powerful and wealthy among us.”
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- Tinman - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 9:08 am:
Wow,
Never thought I would see this happen ,but it doesn’t look good for Madigan. The type of influence peddling was toxic . Let’s see how this plays going forward.
- Defense - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 9:24 am:
Wow,
Never thought I would see this happen ,but it doesn’t look good for Madigan. The type of influence peddling was toxic . Let’s see how this plays going forward.
Like youre shocked. Everyone knew he ran the state for decades and had his tenticales in every layer of government, this just shows the depth.
- Arsenal - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 9:26 am:
==Like youre shocked. Everyone knew he ran the state for decades and had his tenticales in every layer of government, this just shows the depth.==
I don’t think it’s so much surprise that MJM did this as surprise that he might actually get caught.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 9:30 am:
===surprise that he might actually get caught===
Not sure the word “caught” is the word. That the feds finally made something stick is more of a surprise. They’ve been chasing that guy for decades. Nothing ever came of it until now.
Also, since MJM knew the feds were after him, the fact that he apparently didn’t consult a competent outside criminal lawyer who told him he was creating his own mine field says loads. I don’t think to this day that he believes he did anything illegal.
- Ryder - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 9:31 am:
I’m wondering if there will be possibly more Incictments before the next trial?? I still think there could be.
- Arsenal - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 9:38 am:
==Not sure the word “caught” is the word.==
Yeah, that’s fair. And in addition to what you said, MJM himself is not actually “caught” yet. Maybe he still walks. But I think it’s OK for someone to be surprised that it’s gotten so close.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 9:40 am:
It’s 9.8 or so out of 10 you’ll be found guilty in a federal trial.
To say the odds were against the four is disingenuous on many levels, including but not limited to the facts of the case giving an inside picture, with video to boot.
Get on the bus first. That will never change. The bus is long gone, next stop is April 2024… “Madigan”… with a lil detour for Mapes “on the side” too with perjury.
The culture was seen by jurors too.
The one juror said she, not speaking for the jury as a whole, saw this as sending a message. That means too the prosecutors had the hearts and minds… along with the law.
So much of this has reminded me of a very small little scene in “Goodfellas”, Henry and Karen talking to the Feds.
Up to that point, you never had a real contrast to “the life” Henry and Karen had to “real life” but that scene you see Henry and Karen unlike any time in the film, unvarnished and unappealing to themselves, a mirror that they ain’t the heroes, and definitely not “babes in the woods”. That’s this trial, for me. The unvarnished bad we all can see in a different lens for the characters.
Yesterday was the sunshine to those unclear that the culture isn’t a bright light but a dark hole, and criminal.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 9:43 am:
===…the fact that he apparently didn’t consult a competent outside criminal lawyer who told him he was creating his own mine field says loads. I don’t think to this day that he believes he did anything illegal.===
Rich makes a critical, important point to this and the aftermath.
Sunshine to the culture without a realization that the culture in of itself is corrupt to its existence, yeah, I would be shocked if MJM today thought what is alleged, for him, is illegal, even after yesterday, which would speak volumes to MJM too.
- Demoralized - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 9:45 am:
==I don’t think to this day that he believes he did anything illegal.==
Who knew he was so much like Rod Blagojevich.
- Friendly Bob Adams - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 9:49 am:
I never understood Madigan’s motivation in all of this. Personally he’s a rich guy. Politically, the democrats were in charge of everything, and he had a ton of power.
So was it just ego? “I’m the man in charge”?
- Pundent - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 9:52 am:
Madigan went to great lengths to stay within the law as he understood it. What yesterday’s verdicts reveal is that his understanding of the law might have been incorrect. We’ll have to wait until April to see who’s right. But I’d rather be the feds today than Mike Madigan.
- Payback - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 9:55 am:
“The Governor believes we must restore the public’s trust in government and today’s verdicts are proof that no one is above the law,” When Pritzker was “interviewed” by the FBI about his toilets, they did it by teleconference, instead of bracing him at his mansion. Must be nice to get such soft treatment.
A great day for Illinois, and a reminder that we are still a laughingstock of the U.S. for failing to have state authorities who can prosecute stuff like this. Waiting for legislation to give teeth to the AG office.
- Gravitas - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 9:56 am:
Will there ever be a culture change in the Capitol? It is sad to think that this may not amount to anything in the long run, so long as there are those who say that the defendants simply got caught.
Having visited the Capitol during sessions, it seemed like the Four Tops ran the show while the remaining representatives and senators were extras from Central Casting sent to fill the background.
- Skeptic - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 9:57 am:
==I don’t think to this day that he believes he did anything illegal.==
=Who knew he was so much like Rod Blagojevich. =
Or George Ryan
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 9:59 am:
=== =Who knew he was so much like Rod Blagojevich. =
Or George Ryan===
… or Dan Rostenkowski, or…
Many an Illinois pol had to learn the evolving culture to what was permissible or overlooked was in fact criminal and had been criminal for a long time.
It’s as simple as “never take the money” to the mitigating factors that were the same or different leading to cultural criminality.
- Sunshine - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 10:02 am:
I’m wondering if there will be possibly more Indictments before the next trial?? I still think there could be.
With the Fed’s wiretap on McClain would be surprised if there were not more charges coming.
The messy Video Gaming law was at least as corruptly assembled on a smaller and shorter timeline.
- JS Mill - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 10:07 am:
=I never understood Madigan’s motivation in all of this.=
Power. That was his motivation and you can think of power as synonymous with control as well.
I don’t know that these things made him much money, but they did make others quite a bit and ini return he received loyalty and favors or, in other words, power.
=Many an Illinois pol=
Unfortunately for America, this issue is pervasive across all levels of government and in all types of communities. Sometimes it manifests itself differently, but it is an issue. Maybe Illinois does it with greater frequency, but I doubt it.
- Hannibal Lecter - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 10:09 am:
=== The messy Video Gaming law was at least as corruptly assembled on a smaller and shorter timeline. ===
And here starts the allegations of corruption anytime someone disagrees with the outcome of a piece of legislation.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 10:11 am:
- JS Mill -
I was merely keeping it “Illinois Centric”
Concur…
===Unfortunately for America, this issue is pervasive across all levels of government and in all types of communities. Sometimes it manifests itself differently, but it is an issue. ===
… and an important point.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 10:11 am:
===Waiting for legislation to give teeth to the AG office===
It’s just much easier to convict under federal laws, many of which greatly expanded prosecutorial authority during the drug war.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 10:13 am:
===we are still a laughingstock===
Yeah, to that, both New York AND Ohio both have had “Speaker” legal problems, along with bribery and legislative steering.
That’s just “recently”
Maybe get out more.
- Hannibal Lecter - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 10:27 am:
I think the biggest outcome of this trial is the uncertainty with where this leaves the lobbying world. Lobbying inherently involves influencing legislators. Whether you call it good will, whether you call it persuasion, whether you call it first amendment protected activity, this verdict does nothing to actually clarify where the line is.
Legislators have a right to make job recommendations, but is it illegal to act on those recommendations?
Also this case was not just about subcontractors that did little to no work. Victor Reyes’s law firm was hired and did plenty of legitimate work. Yet, the hiring of the law firm was at issue with Count 2 of the indictment - which was deemed illegal by the jury.
These are the types of questions that will remain - at least until a Court of Appeals reviews the case and tries to draw the line as to where lobbying stopped and bribery began.
- WK - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 10:29 am:
= Maybe Illinois does it with greater frequency, but I doubt it.=
Illinois is regularly ranked as one of the two or three most corrupt states. Our own University of Chicago put us 3, after DC and Louisiana. How many sitting legislators have been indicted in the last few years? (There is 1 on the floor of the Senate today) Chicago aldermen? I don’t think your doubts are well founded. This state has a long and dark history of corruption.
- Mayo Sandwich - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 10:30 am:
Harlan Crow should be quaking in his boots.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 10:34 am:
===Our own University of Chicago===
Doncha mean UIC and former alderman Simpson?
I mean… lol
- WK - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 10:41 am:
==LOL==
Acevedo, Arroyo, Sandoval, Link, Jones, Howard, Madigan, Farnham. All indicted since 2010. There’s also McCann though it was based on what he did after the GA. I feel like I’m forgetting some, but that’s just what comes to mind for the GA.
But yeah, you’re right. Not a big issue here.
- Amalia - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 10:43 am:
it really does make you think pigs get fat hogs get slaughtered. politics is all about sides and support but one must maintain decorum.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 10:48 am:
===But yeah, you’re right. Not a big issue here.===
Not one person said corruption is not a big issue.
Try again, please.
- Arsenal - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 10:57 am:
==So was it just ego? “I’m the man in charge”?==
And paranoia. Dude knew that the voters could take all his political power away from him every two years, he did everything, big and small, to make sure that didn’t happen.
- Arsenal - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 10:59 am:
==I think the biggest outcome of this trial is the uncertainty with where this leaves the lobbying world.==
I think there’s enough sui generis about ComEd’s actions to leave most lobbying untouched. But yeah, it’d be helpful if someone came in and wrote down some black letter law on the subject.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 11:10 am:
===it’d be helpful if someone came in and wrote down some black letter law on the subject===
Would have to be done at the federal level. We can change state laws, but that’s not gonna clarify federal stuff.
- Hannibal Lecter - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 11:14 am:
=== I think there’s enough sui generis about ComEd’s actions to leave most lobbying untouched. ===
If I was a lobbyist, I wouldn’t fee comfortable with that.
What about campaign contributions? What if instead of hiring subcontractors, ComEd donated $20 million dollars to MJM’s campaign fund. Bribery? What if it was $5 million? 1 million?
I think the point is that for criminal laws to work properly, people need to understand what conduct is criminal and what conduct is not. Regardless of how you feel about the conduct engaged in by ComEd, I think it would benefit everyone to know the black letter law as to where the line is because “influencing” legislators encompasses a lot of different behavior.
Do I think that the government is going to start prosecuting every lobbyist under the dome? Definitely not. Do I think it opens the door to selective prosecution? Yes.
- WK - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 11:28 am:
==Not one person==
My original comment was in response to:
== Maybe Illinois does it with greater frequency, but I doubt it.==
So maybe you should try again. You don’t like Simpson as a source, yet his rankings were based on FBI stats.
The reality is that Illinois is in a small group of states where corruption has been, and continues to be, a much larger and more pervasive problem than in most other states. There is a reason the state has that reputation nationally.
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 11:49 am:
===Would have to be done at the federal level.===
I can’t understand why the US Attorney or the Justice Department isn’t examining the relationships between K Street and Congress using the 666 lens. Seems to me like a target rich environment if the will existed.
I won’t hold my breath waiting for Congress to tighten up or clarify the statute, unless it was to weaken it. For whatever reason, the FBI doesn’t seem interested in investigating Congress, where billions of dollars are spent, often with the influence of shadowy networks of lobbyists, activists and politicians.
- Responsa - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 12:05 pm:
It was so much easier for pols and lobbyists to hide their corrupt dealings in the days of old before email and text.
- Suburban Mom - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 12:06 pm:
=== I don’t think to this day that he believes he did anything illegal.===
White-collar criminals never do, it’s why they’re terrible to put on the witness stand. They just start earnestly explaining how they totally did all the elements of the crime but they had a good REASON and then are surprised when they’re convicted.
- Demoralized - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 12:15 pm:
LP
Are you being paid by the bears to be such a fervent supporter of their quest for government subsidies? If not I would give them a call to see if you can get on their lobbyist payroll.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 12:19 pm:
===You don’t like Simpson as a source, yet===
… you can’t even connect him the correct university, LOL
Cutting and pasting thoughts on Facebook to Dick Simpson’s idea to corruption when the judge wouldn’t even let Simpson testify to his yarns…
Here’s what you wrote… read it to yourself, slowly.
===But yeah, you’re right. Not a big issue here.===
Either argue like an adult, stop blanket statements, then your thoughts can be seen as thoughtful.
===The reality is that Illinois is in a small group of states where corruption has been, and continues to be, a much larger and more pervasive problem than in most other states. There is a reason the state has that reputation nationally.===
And?
No one has said that Illinois is pure as driven snow, nor is Illinois such the outlier that two “I feel like I’m forgetting some, but that’s just what comes to mind”… like the Speakers in Ohio and New York…
The FBI has more agents assigned in the Northern Illinois District to battle corruption than anywhere, not an accident.
To say it’s wholly unique here is a stretch since both New York and Ohio seem to have similar “uniqueness” with Speakers?
- Boone's is Back - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 12:48 pm:
===it’d be helpful if someone came in and wrote down some black letter law on the subject====
That is my biggest concern with all of this. What are the rules of the road? The Feds have expanded the definition and caselaw of what constitutes “a thing of value.” What does that mean for the future of lobbying and legislating?
Is it a thing of value to help someone’s reelection campaign? How about helping a legislator draft a bill? The traditional transactional interpretation of bribery was pretty cut and dry. This is not and can become very expansive.
- Dotnonymous - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 2:07 pm:
“It’s just much easier to convict under federal laws, many of which greatly expanded prosecutorial authority during the drug war.”
Another negative effect of the failed (and lost) war on drugs…which was always a war on our Constitutional rights as American Citizens.
- WK - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 2:58 pm:
== To say it’s wholly unique here is a stretch since both New York and Ohio seem to have similar “uniqueness” with Speakers?==
You quote me as saying Illinois is in a small group of states, and you “refute” that by…. let me get this right… naming two other states. Do you read what you type?
It would be funny if you weren’t trying to be serious.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 3:04 pm:
===You quote me as saying Illinois is in a small group of states, and you “refute” that by…. let me get this right… naming two other states. Do you read what you type?===
(Sigh)
This comes from the person who can’t tell the difference between UIC and the University of Chicago and can’t see two other Speakers (I guess that’s 6% of all speakers, lol) were bribed (or currently awaiting trial) as… trivial?
Friend, three states have an issue with the leader of their Lower Chamber and you say that’s unique?
“One is an incident, two is a coincidence, three’s a pattern”
lol
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 3:17 pm:
- WK -
Ok, here’s a FOURTH Speaker…
From AL.com
“Former Alabama House Speaker Mike Hubbard released from prison”
Updated: Jan. 09, 2023, 9:39 a.m.|Published: Jan. 09, 2023, 9:05 a.m.
===Former Alabama House Speaker Mike Hubbard has been released from prison after serving a 28-month sentence for violating ethics laws that he helped pass.
Hubbard was released from Limestone Correctional Center on Sunday, the Alabama Department of Corrections said, as reported by WVTM13 and Alabama Political Reporter.
A Lee County jury convicted Hubbard in 2016 of 12 counts of violating the ethics law, finding that he used his position as speaker for personal gain by getting contracts for his private business. Lee County Circuit Judge Jacob Walker sentenced Hubbard to four years in prison.===
- WK - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 3:26 pm:
== Friend==
Considering your regular propensity for typos I thought you may forgive my forgetting to insert the word “Illinois” between “of” and “Chicago” but I guess I am again too generous in my assumptions.
I’m hoping however that you see how ridiculous it is to use an example of, as you noted, 6% of states having a similar situation to somehow imply that the situation is widespread.
Yes, there is corruption everywhere, but as history has repeatedly shown, Illinois is a hot spot for it. If you want to refute that, please find a better angle than a situation that 94% of states aren’t experiencing.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 3:31 pm:
I guess we should add… in October 2014, Bobby Harrell, the House speaker in South Carolina, pled guilty to six counts related to misusing his campaign account for personal benefit.
That’s Five…
Then there’s Rick Johnson, a former Michigan House speaker turned cannabis regulator, received more than $110,000 in bribes in exchange for supporting companies seeking medical marijuana licenses, alleges a federal charging document filed in federal district court Thursday.
Thursday was the first week of April… 2023
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 3:38 pm:
===I thought you may forgive my forgetting to insert the word “Illinois” between “of” and “Chicago”===
You must not know any University of Chicago alums…
I’m up to 6 sitting or former Speakers, haven’t broken a sweat, you tell me how may “works” for you… or Prof. Simpson.
===Yes, there is corruption everywhere, but as history has repeatedly shown, Illinois is a hot spot for it.===
Read for comprehension, please.
===The FBI has more agents assigned in the Northern Illinois District to battle corruption than anywhere, not an accident.===
But your…
===But yeah, you’re right. Not a big issue here.===
Again, try better.
- WK - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 4:03 pm:
= Read for comprehension, please.=
I’ll avoid your anecdotal route and look to data.
Fivethirtyeight ranked states by total convictions since 1976. Illinois was third. They also looked at convictions per capita, Illinois was 6. They also surveyed political reporters, which is subjective, but that put Illinois at 2. When a sports team finishes in the top 6 every year for decades, they’re a powerhouse, not an example of the typical.
While you don’t like Simpson, his methodology was similar.
When he looked at a decade of data in 2022, Illinois was at 3.
BTW, he wasn’t allowed to testify about the “how it works”, not over data.
You seem to acknowledge what the data shows, noting the number of agents needed there because of the severity of the problem. And yet you’re arguing about the fact that your own acknowledgement lays bare. Take your own advice, try better.
With that, I’d say good day.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 4:13 pm:
===I’ll avoid your anecdotal route and look to data.===
Friend, all 6 aren’t anecdotal, all six were or past sitting speakers.
Please keep up. If you don’t like facts that should not be in dispute, Facebook is a better fit.
===While you don’t like Simpson, his methodology was similar.===
Actually it wasn’t, and in 2012 Simpson’s own cherry picking was discussed on this blog…
Friday, June 8, 2012…
Titled… “Fun with numbers: More modern data causes Illinois to fall in corruption rank”
Rich wrote…
===* UIC Political Science Department chief Dick Simpson released a study earlier this year called “Chicago and Illinois, Leading the Pack in Corruption.” Simpson’s study ranked Chicago and Illinois as the most corrupt places in the nation. But a group called Integrity Florida has released a new study that only uses the last ten years of information, and that examination showed Florida was on top…===
I don’t think I’d call that anecdotal, further, it put Simpson on notice.
===And yet you’re arguing about the fact that your own acknowledgement lays bare.===
lol, no, it’s tiring the Facebook silly that you are trying to pass as thoughtful, then try to say “anecdotal”
Physician, heal thyself.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, May 3, 23 @ 4:14 pm:
This alone…
===he wasn’t allowed to testify about the “how it works”,===
… and we are all better for that.
:)