32 Comments - Big Dipper - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 12:40 pm: It’s the result that SCOTUS wants. - Save Ferris - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 12:51 pm: “All Minority Childs Left Behind.” - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 12:57 pm: For a long time now I’ve thought there needs to be a reimagining of higher education, everywhere, but pointedly in Illinois, as a state. That reimagining now needs to include a racial thought or element to at least hold off a trend where black students are not growing in the student body of our universities. There was a time where it was beyond harrowing that states like Mississippi or Alabama refuse to reflect its state’s racial makeup, and opportunities for all those students in Alabama and Mississippi. Now, it’s not just Mississippi and Alabama… it’s Michigan, Illinois, and I’m going down this road due in large part to “the post”, and here directly; ===And other schools in California have enrollment demographics that better match their populations.=== The term “opportunity” versus any other term is the opportunity for our state universities to see opportunities that don’t exist and *why* that is the case. Is it really just cost? Is it that students preparing for higher education aren’t finding the learning opportunities to *prepare* for opportunities in admissions? It won’t be to far when… “And other schools in California have enrollment demographics that better match their populations.” … other states like Illinois will have fewer and fewer universities that can mirror actual population demographics. And let me be crystal clear, beyond clear for silly and unhelpful interpretations; SCOTUS refused to put its own decision on affirmative action on the military academies of the United States. Read yourself why those universities are excluded… and then wonder how that can’t be a standard (within academic credentials and proficiencies) for all universities…. … … while also leaving legacy admissions untouched. Our universities in Illinois need to reimagine how and what they are, and see how to enhance their student populations that mirror the military academies, as their exemptions should be the rule for a better society. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 1:23 pm: There are a lot of factors that go into this problem. Among them are failing local schools, from pre-school to 12th grade. Academically underprepared students need more help, including remedial education in English and math, before students can succeed in college. Too few Black and Latino students have parents who have college degrees, so they lack their most important advisors and counselors that students like me took for granted. Low income students from all races and ethnicities struggle in college. The list is long, but these are a few examples of why these numbers are difficult to improve. Putting all of the blame on colleges misses the larger question of our unequal society. Also, there are other routes for post-secondary credential outside of higher education, including trades, culinary, military and other paths. Particularly in today’s era, higher ed should not be the only ticket to the middle class. Most colleges that I am familiar with are struggling to enroll and better serve Black and Latino students. They can’t do it on their own. This snapshot is a reflection of a lot of societal problems affecting too many Americans. Colleges have a lot of skin in the game already. It’s time for others to step in and step up. There is no easy solution to this enormous problem. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 1:44 pm: I want to point out this was about 2 & 4 year colleges, not just the universities. It’s also a problem everywhere, but Illinois is facing strong headwinds in college enrollment as a whole as they expect some of biggest drops in students along with Michigan and Ohio in the Midwest. 47th Ward–most of the those other routes are at the very colleges showing drops in A-A enrollment. Higher ed includes many of the trades, culinary, and other career and tech careers. When you define college as 2 & 4 years (and we should) it’s a lot more concerning to see the drop. There are apprenticeships and the military, but even some trades require two year degrees before apprenticing. What is needed is probably wrap around student services that help students navigate from enrollment through getting their first job post graduation. It’s somewhat more expensive, but if done right increases total students and completions by students so it’s worth it, but hard to justify with tight budgets. Essentially we need to create a pathway from K-12 into at least 2 year colleges that gives students support including those things outside of the institution itself. Many 2 years are now running basic needs programs to help students facing those outside forces that often lead them to drop out. - Sue - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 1:49 pm: The problem for minority students in terms of college starts way before the student is 18. Our public k-12 public schools are failing this demographic miserably. Fix public schools and the minority issues will be somewhat improved. Unfortunately the public schools especially in Blue States are controlled by teacher unions who refuse their elected leaders to build out charter schools which believe it or not have improved minority student outcomes. Pritzkers a fool to drop the small charter scholarships but he is a total coward unwilling to take on both the IEA and IFT on the issue - Lefty Lefty - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 1:54 pm: I would really appreciate a citation regarding minority student outcomes at charter schools, Sue. Please and thank you. - Lefty Lefty - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 2:02 pm: If my previous request for a citation from Sue gets posted - never mind. I found the CREDO study. Lots to unpack once the headlines are dispatched, but it’s no slam dunk that charter schools are significantly better now vs. public schools, and it’s begging the question anyway. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 2:03 pm: === Blue States === Explain the student populations in higher education in… Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, Louisiana… You so desperately want this to be a “blue” or “liberal” issue to things you want, like free money to charter schools, for profit schools, that I’m still waiting for a measure of significance. You want the racial divide to be seen politically, not for the students or universities, because it’s who you are, and show that again here. === Essentially we need to create a pathway from K-12 into at least 2 year colleges that gives students support including those things outside of the institution itself. Many 2 years are now running basic needs programs to help students facing those outside forces that often lead them to drop out.=== As I see a reimagining, it has to begin with this thought; === Is it that students preparing for higher education aren’t finding the learning opportunities to *prepare* for opportunities in admissions?=== The snapshot here to higher education is far too telephoto. A bigger picture tells a story, and that story must include a changing of what and how higher education so go forward. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 2:05 pm: === Pritzkers a fool to drop the small charter scholarships but he is a total coward unwilling to take on both the IEA and IFT on the issue=== Where are the test scores and massive improvement this short term program crows about that can’t end? Sure, the money windfall would end, but won’t those investing keep investing, “because education” and not tax breaks? - Sue - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 2:15 pm: Lefty Left- ask Eric Adam’s. Charter school students in NYC have statistically higher scores including minorities. A Charter NYC HS is the best performing HS in NYS - Proud Papa Bear - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 2:15 pm: When we live in a country in which white high school dropouts have a higher median income than Black college graduates, it can be demoralizing to believe that the investment in time and money will pay off. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/10/white-high-school-dropouts-are-wealthier-than-black-and-hispanic-college-graduates-can-a-new-policy-tool-fix-that/ - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 2:17 pm: === Charter school students in NYC have statistically higher scores including minorities.=== Cite please, also include the demographics towards that. Thanks. Also, include Illinois’ scores in those charters too. Appreciate both. - Sue - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 2:23 pm: Article NY Post June 112023-Charter Schools in US outperform with NY among the Best- Harlem Prep - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 2:25 pm: - Sue - One last thing, explain how the mere existence of charter schools open opportunities when affirmative action that was in place is now not there, leaving legacy enrollment and diminished diversity that will occur (which is why the academies of the United States are exempt to keep opportunities for diversity, but I digress)? - Sue - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 2:26 pm: OW- I am assuming you know what Google is- just google best performing NYC Charter schools. - Jerry - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 2:27 pm: I’m sorry to see this in Illinois. There are a lot of things that are going into this and lots of work is needed to fix it. It is also a shame what the Supreme Court did. And now some states teach that slavery was nothing more than a Study Abroad program! - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 2:32 pm: - Sue - Thanks. Appreciate it. I found the article. The article addressed my thought to these schools; ===“Until charter schools start admitting and keeping all students, particularly the children with the greatest needs, comparisons like this study are pointless,” a UFT spokesperson said.=== Enrollment is a factor, not unlike when any public schools don’t test all students to keep numbers up. If these facts are true, no reason to think a Stanford study isn’t accurate, and even with enrollment as it is, why the need for tax breaks, why not just donate directly, “because education and results”? - Sue - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 2:39 pm: A UFT spokesperson. No more needs to be said- - Frida's boss - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 2:42 pm: There are many ways to piece this out- First we have a public university system that competes against itself for students. A cohesive Board of Trustees that takes into account all of our system and directs students towards the programs they desire and most fits their needs could be helpful. Why are U of I, SIU, WIU, NIU, ISU, EIU, all offering the exact same disciplines? There could always be overlap but utilizing the specialization of each school could help immensely. Also one Higher Ed Board directing the flow to maximize potential of each institution would help. Every year Universities fight for finite dollars, with the bulk being given to U of I and the others all fighting for the scraps. You also have institutions fighting within their own institution- SIU Carbondale vs SIU Edwardsville. While we’re at it there are far too many community colleges offering 4 year degrees which is costing prices to rise within the community college. Granted it’s still cheaper than a traditional four year university but still takes students away from our own institutions. 9-12 needs a revamp into teaching useful skills within the system. When will Illinois start teaching financial literacy? ISBE is against it as it’s been proposed before. How do you teach kids college is a benefit when you don’t even explain what ROI means in life? Consolidating school districts in Illinois to better utilize resources between schools and also avoid duplication would help. if kids can travel for sports everyday to different school locations they can travel to different locations for classes once or twice a week. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 2:44 pm: ===No more needs to be said=== So you don’t dispute the enrollment issues? They are as described? - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 2:48 pm: ===Consolidating school districts in Illinois to better utilize resources between schools and also avoid duplication would help. if kids can travel for sports everyday to different school locations they can travel to different locations for classes once or twice a week.=== We as a state can’t close a single prison, now an overall consolidation? That might be a high hurdle - DMC - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 2:59 pm: Again, arguing at the end. I wish there was this passion in the schools in kindergarten and translated to family life as well. Fixing it at the end is a copout. - Big Dipper - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 3:47 pm: Sue, calling the governor a fool and a coward belongs on FB. Elevate your discourse. - Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 4:33 pm: == A UFT spokesperson. No more needs to be said== LOL What a lazy argument. It doesn’t address the fact that charter schools get good outcomes by cherry-picking students. If they were truly as awesome as they purport, we would have a plethora of research publications highlighting their best practices. The reason we don’t is because when the researchers adjust the results to account for the characteristics of the students, the charter schools performance is similar to or below the public school averages. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 4:34 pm: ===get good outcomes by cherry-picking students=== It’s more than that. They whittle down the students as they move from grade to grade. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 4:56 pm: ===They whittle down the students=== Ball game. Start with, say 300 in a grade, whittle it down to 195… with “top scores, top students”, but it’s nothing of the sort. It’s dishonest to the charge of education if it’s the goal of the institution to whittle down to seem like the education given is better. - Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 5:18 pm: ===They whittle down the students=== Indeed. (When I wrote the post, I considered “cherry picking” to be on-going.) - Steve - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 5:23 pm: The goal should be to improve K-12 education. It can be done. It is being done. Mississippi is leading the way. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/31/opinion/mississippi-education-poverty.html - Big Dipper - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 5:24 pm: Charter schools are like crypto or NFTs. Hot air that eventually collapses. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 5:34 pm: ===Mississippi is leading the way.=== This is an opinion piece, not reporting. Illinois is ranked #5 in pre k -12 education according to US News and World Report, but only #31 in higher education The gap is trying to figure how to reimagine education within pre k -12 that sees better ways to get to “13 and higher” - Jibba - Tuesday, Jul 25, 23 @ 9:45 pm: So much to unpack, but staying with the idea of reimagining higher education, I read an article recently about colleges in England that teach one class at a time, multiple hours a day and multiple days a week so the class is over in a much shorter time frame (couple of weeks), and can be either days or nights. This model helps people keep jobs and make progress toward the degree rapidly. Out of the box thinking is needed to allow more folks to attend and keep a life outside of college. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.