Question of the day
Wednesday, Aug 23, 2023 - Posted by Rich Miller
* Sun-Times…
The White Sox have fired Ken Williams and Rick Hahn.
In a surprising move — despite the Sox’ awful performance on the field this season — the team announced Tuesday that Williams, executive vice president, and Hahn, senior vice president/general manager, were relieved of their duties effective immediately.
“This is an incredibly difficult decision for me to make because they are both talented individuals with long-term relationships at the White Sox,” chairman Jerry Reinsdorf said in a statement. “Ken is like a son to me, and I will always consider him a member of my family.’’
The Sox will begin a search for a single decision-maker to lead the baseball-operations department and anticipate having someone in place by the end of the season, which is six weeks away. The organization embarked on a rebuild in 2016 that failed, leading to two postseason appearances, but the Sox have suffered a significant decline the last two seasons.
* Meanwhile, from Crain’s…
[11th Ward Ald. Nicole Lee] could have a huge impact on whether parking lots around the field are redeveloped for a new stadium or an entertainment area. Local neighbors traditionally have opposed the latter. […]
Lee, the local alderperson, says she’s open to a discussion about improvements in and around Guaranteed Rate Field, including adding entertainment and retail options that the team appears to want.
“I’m looking for a mutually beneficial outcome,” Lee said in a phone call. “I think all options are on the table.”
Added Lee, “I’m a lifelong fan of the Sox. I don’t want to see them leave. They’re a cornerstone of our ward. . . .I’m looking forward to being part of the conversation.”
I think a big problem in the past was the local political powers that be didn’t want reliable and machine-friendly Democrats pushed out of the ward while opening the door to wealthier, independent types if the area became more like Wrigleyville.
* The Question: What’s your take on these two developments?
…Adding… Make that three developments. Bob Nightengale is an MLB columnist for USA Today…
- Dan Johnson - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 8:54 am:
Chicago needs a lot more housing. The sports authority has a lot of land. The authority ought to build lots of housing on that land. There is a new law that gives homeowners who buy a single family home from a municipally-built new house 50% off their property taxes for the next 8 years.
Sox Park has the red line and a Metra station. People can get there without a sea of parking.
- Amalia - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 8:58 am:
based on reports, the Sox will hire from inside for the GM, Chris Getz. not good as the farm system is terrible. but perennial candidate Kim Ng the Marlins GM appears to have blown up the 2 guy system by blowing some Tim Anderson trade that Hahn had planned because she called her old work mate Kenny and got Burger. so good on that. but now hearing that Jerry has hired Tony as a consultant. NO…. so it’s a mess. but, yes, would participate in a parade thrown in Bridgeport for the firing of Kenny and Rick.
- Osborne Smith III - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 8:58 am:
I think the Cardinals should pay attention and follow suit with the personnel moves, but add Oli Marmol to the list. The Sox moving out of that vicinity might not be the worst thing in the world for attendance, but what kind of economic impact would it have for other folks who have become dependent on the team being there throughout its history?
- Six Degrees of Separation - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:02 am:
To Dan Johnson’s point, the 35th Red Line station is a great place to catch a train to Wrigley when the Sox are out of town.
To the firing/hiring, Theo Epstein is the name we’ll hear until the hire is made.
- Gravitas - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:05 am:
Have you used the “Red Line” for commuting purposes recently? It is not a pleasant experience for many Chicagoans and this explains why many Sox fans prefer to drive and park their cars.
The dismissal of Hahn and Williams was overdue, but asking La Russa back seems to be foolishness.
- DuPage Saint - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:09 am:
Make LaRussa president and bring back Hawk as GM then let them move to Nashville
- supplied_demand - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:09 am:
==Have you used the “Red Line” for commuting purposes recently? It is not a pleasant experience for many Chicagoans and this explains why many Sox fans prefer to drive and park their cars.==
Would that be the same “Red Line” that takes thousands of people to Wrigley, a stadium with no parking lots?
- Steve - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:10 am:
I hope the White Sox can stay in Chicago. It’s great having 2 MLB teams in one town. Provided taxpayers don’t have to pay to keep them in Chicago or Illinois in general.
- Jerry - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:10 am:
I’m sure they’ll find a GM. In the interest of Tax Fairness no Socialist Entitlements for the Sox. They already got a free stadium!
- Homebody - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:11 am:
Having massive seas of surface level parking lots in what should otherwise be a dense urban area is stupid, both aesthetically (ugly), practically (encourages car use/traffic), and for long term environmental action (ditto).
Add on top of that the sweetheart deal of the State subsidizing a private business worth over 2 billion dollars?
Basically any change to the area would be an improvement in my mind. Dense commercial or entertainment? Great. Demolish the whole thing and let the Sox move to the suburbs, replace it with boring affordable housing? Also great.
- Torco Sign - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:13 am:
Is LaRussa there to consult about baseball or beverages?
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:14 am:
The ball club has so much swirling, Tony LaRussa is a horrible idea, full stop.
Status;
The club has 6 years left on a lease to a building they never-ever liked or felt was “good enough”, no matter the sweetheart deal the lease.
Upper management is “vacant”
The product on the field, the big club, has no discipline, lacks drive and grit, they are lethargic and aren’t even playing for themselves.
Ownership is trying to maximize a valuation it seems, something done to push a sale, “new building is possible”, “you can pick a GM, etc”, No really high priced long term contracts to eat, no player is “un-tradeable”, they can walk in with so much open for change. It’s like taking all the furniture out before you sell a house to show off not the great things… but the potential.
The club should go up for sale and be sold in 18 months to maximize values.
- Friendly Bob Adams - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:14 am:
Terrible news about LaRussa. Shows they are looking backward, not forward. Ugh…
- Donnie Elgin - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:15 am:
“Sox Park has the red line and a Metra station. People can get there without a sea of parking”
Hard to get your baggo set/mini Weber grill and provision on the train.
- Chisox fan - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:15 am:
Tony La Russa? Seriously? And. Lee is right on target that entertainment options must be part of the equation (per my comment yesterday, an “Old Chicago” complex across 35th featuring old Comiskey’s dimensions as the centerpiece).
And why is it that the Sox develop front-office staff that leave and become successful elsewhere (Dave Dombrowski, the Marlin’s Ng)? I’ll tell you why: It starts at the top. Who hired La Russa and Hawk Harrelson?
- Save Ferris - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:16 am:
Kenny deserved to be fired years ago. He earned what happened yesterday.
The White Sox should leave the south side and buy Arlington Park from the Bears.
The Bears should take over Comiskey, renovate the park by ripping out the outfield and making it a full “bowl.” Comiskey is impossible to get to during the week, especially from the north. 10 or 11 days per year on a Sunday when there’s no commuter traffic would make the park far more accessible.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:17 am:
===Hard to get your baggo set/mini Weber grill and provision on the train. ===
C’mon. Nobody’s talking about eliminating all parking. Stop arguing like a child.
- Hannibal Lecter - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:17 am:
=== Sox Park has the red line and a Metra station. People can get there without a sea of parking. ===
Metra is not a convenient alternative for fans living out in the deep south and southwest suburbs.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:17 am:
===Comiskey is impossible to get to during the week,===
lol
- Hannibal Lecter - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:23 am:
The talk about the White Sox moving to Arlington Heights is non-sense. They might as well move to Milwaukee if that is the case. The fan base on the South side will not be driving to Arlington Heights to watch baseball. Please stop it.
- Steve - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:26 am:
-Comiskey is impossible to get to during the week,-
In many ways Comiskey is easier to navigate around than Wrigley Field. Also, Comiskey has a much better parking situation for drivers.
- Mark - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:28 am:
People hated that ballpark from the start. Especially after Baltimore, exactly a year later, showed the MLB how beautiful a ballpark could be. Whether they build there or somewhere else, this stadium needs to go. I think the best thing Reinsdorf could do is fast-track a sale to get an owner with fresh ideas, and let that owner pick who will be running things for the next decade.
- Donnie Elgin - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:28 am:
“Bears should take over Comiskey”
The Bears envision a “campus” style location with a master plan development that includes a stadium, entertainment, office, retail, hotel, parks, and new residential. The Old Comiskey site is too small.
- Regular democrat - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:31 am:
First the changes were needed. Second the money isnt in the team in modern day sports economics its in the real estate around the stadium as well as the stadium itself none of which apply to Sox. Any new owner will have to move team to make money . Not sure the neighborhood wants wrigley south. Maybe new stadium sw suburbs might be the answer along with new owners
- Appears - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:32 am:
Stadiums today work best if it is part of an entertainment complex. Part of that equation is being able to get people to and from that complex en masse, day and evening, every day of the year. If that isn’t possible where the Sox play now, then moving is inevitable.
- Jerry - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:33 am:
Bears or Sox: pay for your own ballpark/stadium. Quit mooching off the taxpayers.
- Chicagonk - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:35 am:
Best idea would be to tear down and rebuild and the Sox play at Soldier Field for 2 years. If they had a retractable roof, they could partner with the Big Ten to host spring college baseball games.
- Save Ferris - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:35 am:
“In many ways Comiskey is easier to navigate around than Wrigley Field. Also, Comiskey has a much better parking situation for drivers.”
As someone who entertains clients, the preponderance are north of Madison, I can get people to go to Wrigley, even for a bad team. It’s nearly impossible to get clients, prospects and referral sources to go to Comiskey. They hate to deal with the Kennedy and Dan Ryan.
Ths flip is no one ever calls me asking to take me to Sox games. I get calls to go to every other team in Chicago, including the Boomers.
Comiskey is in a bad location for 81 events per year.
- low level - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:36 am:
==Comiskey is impossible to get to during the week, especially from the north.==
Red Line to 35th. Easy. Its about a 2 minute walk to the park. Try it sometime.
- supplied_demand - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:37 am:
==Metra is not a convenient alternative for fans living out in the deep south and southwest suburbs. ==
Joliet, Mokena, Tinley Park, etc. reach pretty far southwest. If you like in Kankakee, you will probably have to continue driving, OR you could drive to the nearest Metra station and ride. Lots of people still drive to Cubs games.
- Appears - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:38 am:
Theo might be better than Tony. Although with Theo, you might have a complete tear down of the team for several years (aka. see the Cubs). He would also want to commercialize that area to maintain the Sox’s revenue stream (aka. see Cubs and Wrigleyville).
Having just a stadium and maybe several restaurants is an outdated business model that no professional NFL or MLB team wants.
- Steve - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:39 am:
-As someone who entertains clients-
No doubt more people have wanted to go see the Cubs. But, I’m talking just about getting in and out parking wise. The Sox parking situation is way better than Wrigley. I do realize though not everyone is driving to a baseball game in Chicago.
- Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:46 am:
Totally agree about Sox parking being better than Cubs. Improving parking and the stadium to keep the team is a good idea. The Sox are an iconic Chicago team and should stay. Great move to fire top management when a team that was supposed to improve from barely reaching the playoffs has tanked. Not good to bring back TLR, the team should be rebuilding with new people and not with figures from a losing past. Two out of three positives.
- Save Ferris - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:59 am:
“The Sox parking situation is way better than Wrigley.”
By a million times over. But I can’t get an owner of an 8 figure business or an accountant or attorney to sit in traffic that easily.
And to low level’s point, I’d lose their business if I asked them to take the L with me.
- Amalia - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:01 am:
Sox have a park that is more accessible for everyone. walk around the entire first level and watch the game. and anyone using a wheelchair can do that. and meet and greet and stand under the scoreboard.and eat great food. I have no worries about an entertainment village unless that is needed for financial purposes. the park is great. and the tailgate in the lots is so much fun.
- Hannibal Lecter - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:04 am:
=== Joliet, Mokena, Tinley Park, etc. reach pretty far southwest. If you like in Kankakee, you will probably have to continue driving, OR you could drive to the nearest Metra station and ride. Lots of people still drive to Cubs games. ===
The Metra only has one line that actually stops at the 35th/Lou Jones stop. Consider a weekday night game. You are looking at one, maybe two trains that would head southwest on the Rock Island line that would come after the game. That is not enough transportation to accommodate fans in the suburbs.
If your local Metra line is not the Rock Island line, you are SOL and would either have to drive to the stadium or drive to the nearest Metra station off the Rock Island line. at that point, might as well just drive the rest of the way to the game.
- lake county democrat - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:06 am:
Would love to have Ng back, hate the LaRussa news. I don’t see surrounding the park with an entertainment district as a winner but if it had significant residential housing…maybe. I still like yesterday’s suggestion of the Bears and Sox swapping locations and letting the Bears build whatever megadome they want there.
- Three Dimensional Checkers - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:06 am:
All the baseball fans can watch the Sox, and the salesmen can hang out at Wrigley and do whatever.
The 11th Ward is already changing a lot. The neighborhood by the ballpark is old Bridgeport. But old Bridgeport did not elect Ald. Lee IIRC. I don’t think they have the clout to keep away the bars and nightlife anymore.
- Hannibal Lecter - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:06 am:
There is nothing wrong with the park. I think the park is great. The problem is the team stinks. When the team underperforms this badly, the stadium should be empty. Put a better product on the field and the fans will come.
- Just Me 2 - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:15 am:
It never ceases to amaze me how “progressive” pols behave like conservatives when it comes to land use policies. All of a sudden they demand less housing and more parking.
- City Zen - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:17 am:
==Chicago needs a lot more housing==
And yet the former site of the Robert Taylor Homes right across the street remains underdeveloped.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:18 am:
===less housing and more parking.===
In the context of stadium demands, wouldn’t less housing and more parking make sense?
- Loyal Virus - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:19 am:
Nowhere else in MLB land can you take one train from field to field. I’ll admit I don’t take the trip south often, but it’s so freaking convenient. And I appreciate the nice folks who sell me a beer for the loooong walk to the stadium. There are a few fixes needed- like how long it takes to just get into the park- but worth it. Contemplating mixed use affordable housing & some retail replacing a parking lot or two would be a win-win.
- Thomas Paine - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:22 am:
As I said yesterday, Jerry wants an entertainment district. He is probably happy to include a Weber Grill restaurant where folks can grill their own meats. Folks should have foreseen this when they gave the Cubs everything they asked for. Hopefully this means more day games as well.
- Phineas - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:24 am:
Re: new stadium sw suburbs
LOL - Seatgeek is available for rehab and can already support the Sox’s 20K average attendance. /s
- BC - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:25 am:
For a moment, I hoped maybe a comedy writer took over Bob Nightengale’s twitter account this morning. Chris Getz, head of what is among the worst-in-baseball farm system promoted to the top job? The former KC Royals general manager brought in to help Getz? Pedro Grifol likely brought back because he’s close to both of them from their time together with the Royals? The Kansas City Royals, one of the few organizations in worse shape than the White Sox? And then, the clincher: Tony LaRussa back in a consulting role?
Madness. Madness.
- Been There - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:32 am:
Here is Dan McGrath’s take on the situation in Crains. My sentiments are exactly like all those who didn’t even want to take his tickets at a raffle a month ago.
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/dan-mcgrath-business-sports/white-sox-problems-bigger-than-ballpark?utm_source=morning-10&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20230822&utm_content=article6-headline
- Google Is Your Friend - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:39 am:
- Hannibal Lecter - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:23 am:
They don’t drive to Guaranteed Rate now judging by the attendance numbers. Blame the team being bad all you want, but even when they win, the Sox do not draw that well. They’ve never even cracked 3m through the gates in a season.
- NIU Grad - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:45 am:
“brought back Tony La Russa”
I was feeling slightly hopeful and then I just cackled. So much for a rebuild.
I guess if they want to start building more bars around the stadium, they wanted an expert consultant on-hand…
- Roadrager - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:45 am:
==What’s your take on these two developments?==
That Brewers games are cheaper to go to, even factoring in the commute, their stadium offers a better fan experience, and that team is leading its division again.
==For a moment, I hoped maybe a comedy writer took over Bob Nightengale’s twitter account this morning.==
When Jerry wants something he’s made up his mind on laundered through the press without attribution back to him, he pulls Bob Nightengale’s card out of the Rolodex. We all were chortling heartily when Bob “reported” the Sox were considering bringing back Tony La Russa as manager. We stopped laughing really fast.
- Gravitas - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:49 am:
Slightly off topic:
The ongoing hazing scandal has pushed this to the background, but, presumably, this is supposed to be the final season for the 97 year old Dyche Stadium/Ryan Field. While construction is taking place on the replacement stadium, the Wildcats are going to have to play home games elsewhere. The two candidates for those games are Guaranteed Rate and Soldier Field.
Wherever Northwestern goes, there are going to be loads of empty seats.
- low level - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:51 am:
==The 11th Ward is already changing a lot==
Definitely not my Dad’s Bridgeport
- New Day - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:53 am:
“The Chicago White Sox have brought back Tony La Russa as a consultant, per
@BNightengale.”
Did they bring him back as a bar consultant?
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 11:02 am:
===And yet the former site of the Robert Taylor Homes right across the street remains underdeveloped. ===
Yep. And the CHA is sitting on truly gigantic piles of money which it refuses to spend and property that it’s unloading for non-housing purposes.
- Juice - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 11:13 am:
Thomas Paine, you made a similar comment yesterday. But the Cubs definitely did not get everything that they asked for.
If they did, then why did they run a candidate against the local Alderman?
- BC - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 11:18 am:
== he pulls Bob Nightengale’s card out of the Rolodex. ==
Yep. This is going to happen. Bringing together the brain trust of the two worst teams in baseball’s worst division: The Kansas City White Sox. With Tony LaRussa throwing back red wine in the owner’s box.
- Treefiddy - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 11:30 am:
FYI, there’s now some other local media disputing the report that LaRussa was brought back in. What a cluster****…
- Roadrager - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 11:31 am:
==The Kansas City White Sox.==
Everyone needs to spend a few minutes thinking about Jerry’s plan to fix the White Sox being a new manager, a new GM, and the biggest contract in team history all coming from the only team in the division worse than his own.
- Paddyrollingstone - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 12:04 pm:
” think a big problem in the past was the local political powers that be didn’t want reliable and machine-friendly Democrats pushed out of the ward while opening the door to wealthier, independent types if the area became more like Wrigleyville.”
I think this is correct. The newcomers will all vote Democratic but will be less controllable (if that’s the right word). I am sure the 44th ward is even more Democratic now that it was before “Wrigleyville” became a thing. I hope the Sox stay and I hope that they do some correct development near the park.
- Rocky Racoon - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 12:08 pm:
The Sox would be eliminated from the Little League World Series by now.
- ChicagoBars - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 12:10 pm:
==Chicagonk - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:35 am:
Best idea would be to tear down and rebuild and the Sox play at Soldier Field for 2 years ==
Thanks for the hearty chuckle(banned punctuation).
But also Omaha has been the home for the College World Series for a long time and it would be a real challenge to pry that away from Nebraska since it’s one of their major tourism events.
- Thomas Paine - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 12:50 pm:
=== If they did, then why did they run a candidate against the local Alderman? ===
How did that work out for them?
They got what they wanted, Tunney got concessions in return. They didn’t like it. They didn’t like having to ask for stuff or negotiate, and tried to teach him a lesson and instead got schooled. Tunney retired on his own terms and picked his replacement. He’s now the guy who beat the Ricketts and I hope he never has to pay for another beer in his life.
The Cubs just announced a $100M deal with Draftkings for onsite betting. They have hotel, restaurant, a plaza, and are doing just fine.
- Hannibal Lecter - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 1:53 pm:
=== They’ve never even cracked 3m through the gates in a season. ===
What is your point? Only a handful of teams have cracked 3 Million in attendance in a season.
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 2:17 pm:
Tony La Russa’s return is not confidence inspiring. An entertainment complex won’t mean much to a losing baseball team, it will mean more money for Jerry’s family.
I just want the team to be good and I don’t care who they get, just be better.
- Juice - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 2:36 pm:
Thomas Paine, I agree completely that they are doing fine.
But they asked for significant amounts of cash for the development, and they were told no. And Tunney forced them to make some of those concessions, which they didn’t want to do, but that was the only way for them to get the project moving forward.
But that is all a bit far from just saying that the Cubs got everything that they asked for. I mean, they asked to pay for the development around the park and for the state to cover the renovations inside Wrigley, and they ended up having to pay for both.
- Gravitas - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 2:43 pm:
As for the Sox playing at Soldier Field for a couple of years, please watch the 1959 World Series highlights reel. The White Sox played the Los Angeles Dodgers in 1959. At the time, the Dodgers played their games at the Los Angeles Coliseum. The Coliseum was a virtual twin for Soldier Field except for the fact that it was constructed on a larger scale and the cost of the LA stadium was much less than the budget for the smaller stadium in Chicago. The general consensus was that Coliseum was a terrible place to play baseball despite its seating capacity. The outfield dimensions were nutty and there was a large screen erected to minimize the number of short home runs at the foul lines.
Former Park District Superintendent Ed Kelly pitched playing baseball at Soldier Field, but the proposal went nowhere.
As for the Sox partnering with the Bears in Arlington Heights, the Bears ownership passed on playing games at the new Comiskey/US Cellular some time ago when Soldier Field was being renovated. The Bears opted to play in Champaign instead.
- supplied_demand - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 2:43 pm:
==Only a handful of teams have cracked 3 Million in attendance in a season. ==
24 teams have reached 3 million fans. Only a handful haven’t (Pirates, Reds, Royals, Rays, A’s, and Nationals). Two of them will be moving soon and the Reds owner threatened to move earlier this year.
https://www.thebaseballnexus.com/top-annual-team-attendance
- Chicagonk - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 2:52 pm:
@ChicagoBars - I don’t think they could take away the CWS, but Big Ten baseball programs are disadvantaged by the cold weather and often have to spend the first month of season traveling to the south to play games - An early-season college baseball invitational in Chicago in early March every year would definitely be attractive.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 2:55 pm:
===Two of them will be moving ===
One is moving, the second is leveraging.
Let’s not pretend for any moment that owning a MLB franchise is a losing proposition.
Let’s discuss how each and every single franchise is in the business to leverage every single penny they can from fans, the league, the cities, their states, and the media platforms.
It’s why “selling” isn’t the option chosen but moving (or threatening to move) is the go to leverage.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 2:57 pm:
===An early-season college baseball invitational in Chicago in early March every year would definitely be attractive.===
Recruiting for collegiate baseball / softball outside the SEC is predicated on “two week trip for fun and the sun”, when teams bond on a beach and swim in oceans.
It’s why it’s a treat to go south for spring training and not being in Toronto’s domed facility, as an example.
- Gravitas - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 3:14 pm:
In the good old days, two of my late cousins both had season tickets in Milwaukee. Under the old management, if a season ticket holder was unable to attend a home game, the Brewers would refund the money if the tickets were returned to the ticket office in advance of the game. This was a simple straight up courtesy. It was not a ticket exchange set up where the team acted as a broker for unused tickets in return for commission fees.
I highly doubt any team does this any longer.
Before MLB eliminated the separate league presidents, there used to be a sucker bet as to which Chicago team would have better attendance. The National League used to tally attendance based on actual turnstile clicks while the American League based its numbers on tickets sold (this is the current method for calculating attendance in MLB). No shows did not affect AL attendance while in the NL it did.
I cannot see the Sox relocating to Arlington Heights without losing a portion of their fan base. When Reinsdorf looked into moving before the stadium deal passed, he was focused on Du Page County. I believe that there was some opposition in the western suburbs at that time and ultimately the Sox stayed put.
- Hannibal Lecter - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 3:26 pm:
=== An early-season college baseball invitational in Chicago in early March every year would definitely be attractive. ===
No it wouldn’t. You think those college kids want to be playing indoor baseball in Chicago in March instead of baseball in warmer weather in the south?
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 3:32 pm:
===You think those college kids want to be playing indoor baseball in…===
Miami?
Miami, sure.
===March instead of baseball in warmer weather in the south?===
Tell me you’ve never been to a Chicago opening day…
The idea of a dome is like a shiny object.
Even UIC baseball went to Alabama this early baseball year, lol
- Thomas Paine - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 3:39 pm:
=== That is all a bit far from just saying that the Cubs got everything that they asked for. ===
That is not what I said, I said they got what they wanted, what they asked for was a public negotiating position. Who in their right mind thought the Cubs would get the city to pay for renovations to a stadium that is not owned by the taxpayers, unlike Soldier Field and Comiskey aka The Cell aka GRF.
At the end of the day, how can you blame the Sox for not wanting what the Cubs got? A plaza, hotels, restaurants, bars, essentially an entire entertainment district. How to get there and what the taxpayers get in return is subject to negotiation, but it’s certainly not unreasonable for The Sox to ask.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 3:40 pm:
Note: Average career length of MLB Player is 5.6 years.
Also note: White Sox have 6 years left on their lease.
Further note: On average, a ballpark can take 2-3 seasons in these times to build.
Sour note: Leveraging now by Reinsdorf is a sale’s tactic, leaving a bad taste for everyone and needless hand wringing
- Hannibal Lecter - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 3:50 pm:
=== March instead of baseball in warmer weather in the south?
Tell me you’ve never been to a Chicago opening day…===
1. Opening Day baseball in Chicago has never taken place during the spring break period for most colleges.
2. I played baseball here in high school and I can unequivocally say that I have played baseball here in Mid-March and there is no scenario where I would prefer to be playing baseball in 40 degree weather in Chicago than 70-80 degree + weather anywhere else.
Stop trolling me Willy.
- Gravitas - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 3:55 pm:
@Thomas Paine:
It is worth remembering that the Cubs pay annual property taxes on Wrigley Field. If Jerry wants want the Cubs got, let him start paying his fair share.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 4:10 pm:
- Hannibal Lecter -
Try reading it… where I’m agreeing with your points, not countering them.
If I wanted to troll you I’d ask how is Fitzgerald finding time to volunteer when his depositions begin… or is Fitzgerald lecturing on anti-hazing to the team or just showing examples he ignored. That would be me trolling.
(Sigh)
My example of UIC playing Alabama this spring kinda proves the point to Chicago, it’s not like Alabama baseball sees playing in a dome in Chicago, in March, as cool.
I’ve been to March opening days, as a fun aside.
Be well.
- JoeMaddon - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 5:00 pm:
**- Thomas Paine - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 10:22 am:
Folks should have foreseen this when they gave the Cubs everything they asked for.
- Thomas Paine - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 3:39 pm:
=== That is all a bit far from just saying that the Cubs got everything that they asked for. ===
That is not what I said, I said they got what they wanted
- Rahm’s Parking Meter - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 5:04 pm:
Boy am I glad I am a Cubs fan. This is a joke.
- B Team - Wednesday, Aug 23, 23 @ 9:40 pm:
The Sox and Bears should build on the old Arlington Park site.
- Hank sauer - Thursday, Aug 24, 23 @ 7:31 am:
How much state /city /money has been spent on Sox/cell/rate park and its 2 iterations already ?