Question of the day
Wednesday, Oct 23, 2024 - Posted by Isabel Miller
* Salt Lake Tribune…
In the last 16 months of 12-year-old Gavin Peterson’s life, those who knew him tried to raise an alarm. […]
The agency’s director, Tonya Myrup, acknowledged this month that the boy fell off caseworkers’ radar when he was removed from school in August 2023. This, despite a case history that dated back to his infancy.
Gavin’s disappearance from the public eye represents a “unique” and “small subset” of abuse and neglect cases, Myrup said — where parents “go to extreme efforts to avoid DCFS and to avoid public intervention.”
But when it happens, she said, Utah has no protocols in place to check on children. […]
Rep. Christine Watkins, R-Price, said at a Child Welfare Legislative Oversight Panel meeting Oct. 10 that she intends to sponsor a bill next year that would allow caseworkers to seek welfare-check warrants in situations like Gavin’s — where a child with a case history has been isolated. She did not respond to The Salt Lake Tribune’s requests for additional comment.
* The Home School Legal Defense Association, an organization that has been highly influential in reducing regulations for home schooling across the county, shows Illinois has one of the lowest regulations for homeschooling in the US. From Capitol News Illinois in June…
While each state has different regulations for homeschooling — and most of them are relatively weak — Illinois is among a small minority that places virtually no rules on parents who homeschool their children: The parents aren’t required to register with any governmental agency, and no tests are required. Under Illinois law, they must provide an education equivalent to what is offered in public schools, covering core subjects like math, language arts, science and health. But parents don’t have to have a high school diploma or GED, and state authorities cannot compel them to demonstrate their teaching methods or prove attendance, curriculum or testing outcomes.
The Illinois State Board of Education said in a statement that regional education offices are empowered by Illinois law to request evidence that a family that homeschools is providing an adequate course of instruction. But, the spokesperson said, their “ability to intervene can be limited.” […]
Homeschool groups that oppose changes in the law say cases of abuse among homeschooled children are tragic but rare.
* In West Virginia…
Executive Director Mickey Blackwell said he hopes that in the special legislative session this month and in the legislative session of 2025, lawmakers will provide support for “constructive, sensible oversight” for homeschooling.[…]
However, the West Virginia Home Educators Association does not agree. President Roy Ramey said any form of assessment or oversight is too much.
“Why would we ever ask someone who doesn’t test and educate like we do to test in a way that’s not consistent with what we’re doing? It’s doesn’t work,” Ramey said.
In cases where children fall through the cracks, like this most recent one in Charleston and Kyneddi Miller’s case, the homeschooled Boone County girl who apparently starved to death in her home, Ramey said the blame is misplaced. He said the issues here are with Child Protective Services and the criminal justice system, not homeschooling.
“All of the issues that we’ve talked about are child neglect issues.,” he said. “None of it has to do with homeschool, so if you increase the homeschool regulations, all you’re doing is making it more difficult for homeschoolers to pursue that endeavor.”
* Capitol News Illinois in July…
Rep. Terra Costa Howard, the chair of the Adoption and Child Welfare Committee in the Illinois House, called for action following a Capitol News Illinois and ProPublica investigation, which revealed little accountability for parents who pull their kids from school and then fail to ensure they receive an education. In the worst cases, the investigation found, parents isolated and mistreated their children. […]
While regulations on homeschooling are minimal across the nation, Illinois is among a small number of states with virtually no rules about homeschooling: state authorities can’t compel proof of teaching methods, attendance, curriculum or testing outcomes; homeschool teachers don’t need a high school diploma or GED; and parents aren’t required to notify anyone if they remove their kids from school.
The Democrat from suburban Glen Ellyn said that “at a bare minimum” the state should mandate that parents must notify a school district or other governmental entity when they choose to homeschool. This is a requirement in 39 states and Washington, D.C., but is entirely optional for parents in Illinois. “We need to know these kids exist,” Costa Howard said.
Past efforts in Illinois to implement regulations on homeschools have faced strong resistance, including against a bill in 2011 to require registration and another in 2019 to enact inspections and curriculum reviews of homeschools. In both instances, the outcry was so intense that Illinois lawmakers swiftly withdrew the bills from consideration.
* The Questions: Should homeschooling be regulated more in Illinois?
- Central IL Centrist - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 9:37 am:
Yes. But, I feel if there is involvement in a “cooperative” environment, there could be less need for visits, check-ins, etc. I feel a section of ROE’s could serve this function, much of it email communication, etc with periodic in-person discussions (i.e. quarterly progress report parent/teacher-ROE meetings). If parents/caretakers are serious about the educational integrity, they’ll see the benefit. Unfortunately, many just see it as a way to give kids what they want and/or placate to avoid issues in the school system.
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 9:41 am:
Absolutely. And the state should mandate some sort of minimum standard with regard to their education. There should be minimum standards for reading, writing and math that a homeschooled kids should have to meet.
- Waffle Fries - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 9:46 am:
“Local Control”
- Leap Day William - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 9:48 am:
Yes. At the bare minimum, parents should at least have to tell the school district that they’re homeschooling.
- Peoples Republic of Oak Park - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 9:51 am:
Absolutely. Its unreal the level of oversight that exists for schools and you can just be like- hey we are homeschooling yolo and just do whatever.
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 10:01 am:
Yes. At a minimum, registering with the local school district. If a child isn’t in school, they are truant. Registering makes it easier to determine how many truant children are in a given district. Registering is minimally intrusive but has important public benefits (reducing truancy).
But I realize this is likely to be strongly opposed by the home school community. I wish Costa Howard a lot of luck with this. She’s going to be on the hot seat. even though the number of home schoolers is a tiny fraction of K-12 students in Illinois. A very vocal minority.
- Donnie Elgin - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 10:03 am:
=Illinois is among a small minority that places virtually no rules on parents who homeschool their children=
Good - let parent make choices for their kids. Who is a better advocate for their success? educations.
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 10:14 am:
==let parent make choices for their kids==
The kid deserves an education. I’m not willing to give up total control to a parent. There is absolutely no reason parents shouldn’t have to meet a minimum standard and a parent providing appropriate education shouldn’t fear such a requirement. But, hey, if you are ok having dumb kids because a parent isn’t truly educating their child then that says a lot about you.
- Larry Bowa Jr. - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 10:17 am:
Absolutely it should. If Republicans in Utah are getting ahead of you on an issue of child welfare you are doing it wrong.
I’ve never met a homeschooling parent who was qualified to teach past kindergarten, and I’ve met an unfortunate number of them.
- Pundent - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 10:19 am:
=Who is a better advocate for their success?=
And what if that advocacy is in the form of abuse? Because I think that’s certainly within the realm of possibility.
- Give Us Barabbas - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 10:21 am:
So, what are the standards to meet for a homeschooled student at the equivalent stages of development of public school kids? Is there a homeschooling version of the ACT test? Of the college boards? Of a GED? Any kind of standardized evaluation system to show a standard for reading, writing, arithmetic, history, social studies, science? If there isn’t, than home schooling could just be a meaningless term.
- Suburban Mom - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 10:51 am:
Absolutely. Because this: “All of the issues that we’ve talked about are child neglect issues.,” he said. “None of it has to do with homeschool, so if you increase the homeschool regulations, all you’re doing is making it more difficult for homeschoolers to pursue that endeavor.”
That’s true. But it completely ignores the fact that homeschooling is in fact a major way that abusive parents try to hide their abuse. I would think that homeschooling advocates would be trying to help root out those parents who are pretending to “homeschool” in order to abuse their kids. The fact that they’re uninterested in that makes me question what those advocates’ agendas really are.
- JB13 - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 10:54 am:
– I’m not willing to give up total control to a parent –
Who are you?
- Retired School Board Member - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 11:00 am:
What good is a supermajority if Dems can’t take on issues to protect children? Do we really need a generation of illiterate and consequentially unemployable citizens with no access to legitimate economic opportunity?
There seems to be this belief that all homeschooler parents are good actors. When in reality that just isn’t the case and their children pay the price and in turn, society pays the price. Some are literally using loopholes in the system to neglect their children.
I am super pro-choice but wow, can we generate the same level of support for protecting kids as we have for protecting women’s reproductive freedom?
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 11:04 am:
= virtually no rules on parents who homeschool their children=
The reality is that there are no rules. The ROE’s really don’t have a mechanism to check and truancy is an absolute farce. This is not the fault of the ROE’s, it has been legislated that way.
When parents remove their children to homeschool them we ask them to sign a form, but we cannot make them do it. Most do so we have some documentation. The ones that are most in need of oversight usually don’t sign the form.
There are some parents that do a commendable job with homeschooling. I don’t have a number but my guess is that at least 25% do a respectable job. Many times we see their kids when they get to high school age or come for driver’s ed. They want access to sports and upper level electives that may be out of their skill set. Parents who homeschool to give their children a faith based education tend (in my experience) to make an honest effort to educate as well.
The parents that pull their kids because they get sick of calls from the school looking for their children or becuase there is a disciplinary issue often re-enroll their kids at some point only to be angry when we do not advance them to the age appropriate class due to the fact that they are years behind. We test kids that have been out more than 6 months for placement when they come back. Some parents just gave up and let their kids run around town all day.
I may be one of the few public educators that do not have a problem with homeschooling when it is done well. When it isn’t, we are often stuck with trying to fix it. And society ultimately gets stuck with the legacy costs that are associated with a lack of education. Costs like poor health and the need to be on public aide come to mind.
==Who is a better advocate for their success?==
When these parents to lay the costs of their poor decisions on the rest of us then sure. But being a teacher isn’t just something you just do. It requires and education and training so letting these non-experts make these decisions has some pretty significant results that are often costly for society.
=Is there a homeschooling version of the ACT test? Of the college boards? Of a GED? Any kind of standardized evaluation system =
Yes. These kids can take the ACT and SAT like everyone else, same with the GED. And many do. Many are going to an online based program like Penn-Foster which has assessments etc.
- @misterjayem - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 11:07 am:
“Good - let parent make choices for their kids. Who is a better advocate for their success?”
This is why I advocate for at-home surgery performed by moms and dads.
Who needs training or education when you’ve got very good intentions?
– MrJM
- Name Withheld - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 11:15 am:
===== a generation of illiterate and consequentially unemployable citizens =====
Is there any supporting evidence to substantiate that homeschooled students are, generally speaking, illiterate and/or unemployable?
- Second Verse - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 11:20 am:
The quality of home schooling is often determined by the skills and abilities of the person who provides instruction.
Instead of chasing students (which is problematic) the state could regulate instructors allowed to teach in a home school setting.
Set minimum educational requirements for the teacher. Test the knowledge and ability of the instructor regarding different learning practices. Require passage of a qualifying test on state mandated units of instruction. Require a criminal background check. Require the filing of a daily schedule of instruction. Make unannounced visits to see if schooling is actually happening as claimed.
In short: screen the instructor, not the child.
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 11:24 am:
I think there needs to be some regulation to ensure some minimal standards. Homeschool parents can access some (minimal) state funding, special education services and usually driver’s ed. So definitely yes. If for no other reason to ensure the health and safety of the child.
= virtually no rules on parents who homeschool their children=
The reality is that there are no rules. The ROE’s really don’t have a mechanism to check and truancy is an absolute farce. This is not the fault of the ROE’s, it has been legislated that way.
When parents remove their children to homeschool them we ask them to sign a form, but we cannot make them do it. Most do so we have some documentation. The ones that are most in need of oversight usually don’t sign the form.
There are some parents that do a commendable job with homeschooling. I don’t have a number but my guess is that at least 25% do a respectable job. Many times we see their kids when they get to high school age or come for driver’s ed. They want access to sports and upper level electives that may be out of their skill set. Parents who homeschool to give their children a faith based education tend (in my experience) to make an honest effort to educate as well.
The parents that pull their kids because they get sick of calls from the school looking for their children or becuase there is a disciplinary issue often re-enroll their kids at some point only to be angry when we do not advance them to the age appropriate class due to the fact that they are years behind. We test kids that have been out more than 6 months for placement when they come back. Some parents just gave up and let their kids run around town all day.
I may be one of the few public educators that do not have a problem with homeschooling when it is done well. When it isn’t, we are often stuck with trying to fix it. And society ultimately gets stuck with the legacy costs that are associated with a lack of education. Costs like poor health and the need to be on public aide come to mind.
==Who is a better advocate for their success?==
When these parents to lay the costs of their poor decisions on the rest of us then sure. But being a teacher isn’t just something you just do. It requires and education and training so letting these non-experts make these decisions has some pretty significant results that are often costly for society.
=Is there a homeschooling version of the ACT test? Of the college boards? Of a GED? Any kind of standardized evaluation system =
Yes. These kids can take the ACT and SAT like everyone else, same with the GED. And many do. Many are going to an online based program like Penn-Foster which has assessments etc.
- JB13 - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 11:28 am:
This presumption that homeschooled students are abused and uneducated is pernicious, toxic, and just wrong.
In my experience, homeschool families are among the most committed, responsible parents you will find. If anything, they overparent.
Of course, anecdote is not data.
But there is data, too. The ACT says homeschooled students consistently scored higher on the ACT than public schooled students, as recently as 2019.
Given what has happened since 2019, I cannot imagine that gap has been closed.
So that checks that box.
There is something motivating this sudden desire in Illinois to regulate homeschooling. Given the continued mismanagement at DCFS and the willingness to tolerate substandard test scores in many public school systems in this state, I don’t believe it comes from someplace other than a sincere desire to prevent abuse or ensure academic success
- Pundent - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 11:52 am:
=This presumption that homeschooled students are abused and uneducated is pernicious, toxic, and just wrong.=
Nobody is making that broad assertion. But acknowledging that all of these issues can exist is why regulation makes sense. Not all factories pollute, but some do. That’s why we don’t leave it to chance.
- TJ - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 11:58 am:
Absolutely. Oversight is how you prevent actual abuse and indoctrination. Meaningfully good parents that homeschool their children will be barely impacted by this, so they have nothing to fear.
- James - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 12:04 pm:
Maybe. Please tell me however, what agency in Illinois charged with oversight of kids, DCFS for example, has shown exemplary work of late. I just don’t think the State could do this well at all. I also don’t see how homeschooling the common denominator. This story could just as well be about truancy in public schools.
- JoeMaddon - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 12:09 pm:
**This presumption that homeschooled students are abused and uneducated is pernicious, toxic, and just wrong.**
No one said that.
But it is possible that SOME homeschooled students are abused and uneducated.
- Candy Dogood - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 12:15 pm:
===Should homeschooling be regulated more in Illinois?===
Yes. Absolutely. Parents do not own their children. Children should not be treated like property, and in many cases a lower standard than exists for property when we consider the impact of things like zoning on what people are allowed to do with real estate.
In addition to avoiding efforts of agencies like DCFS to protect children from harm — a motive that likewise suggests the knowledge and intent that the behavior is done with knowledge and intent — parents are not required to demonstrate that they are capable of providing a minimum standard of education nor are the students required to demonstrate that they have met minimum standards for progression.
Good intentions really aren’t enough, especially when considering factors like Dunning Kruger.
- RNUG - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 12:32 pm:
– what are the standards –
Most home school parents use one of the two widely recognized curriculums. And most are part of a network of home schoolers that are often loosely organized into academies. You tend to see hone schooling more in the K-8 grades than high school; primarily as mentioned by others they return to the public school system for the sports and other classes.
There is some evidence most home schooled kids are as well or better educated than their average public school equivalent, say more on the order of students in the public school advanced placement classes.
I know a number of home school / academy instructors, who are often teachers that have left the public schools over various reasons. They are quite dedicated and, at the academics, are often unpaid.
I will concede there are always a small percentage of parents and children that should not be in a home school environment, but they don’t tend to last and either revert to the public school system or just drop out completely. But since I tend to see the home school environment working here in Illinois, I don’t see the need for additional regulations.
- Friendly Bob Adams - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 12:36 pm:
Increased regulation would most likely be a waste of time. So many parents doing home schooling do so for religious reasons. Any serious effort to hold them to a particular standard would come off as restricting their religious freedom.
- Who else - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 12:44 pm:
==This presumption that homeschooled students are abused and uneducated is pernicious, toxic, and just wrong.==
I think the state should regulate homeschooling, and I agree that a presumption that homeschooled students are abused and uneducated is pernicious, toxic and just wrong.
I think the state should regulate education in schools, and that a presumption that school-educated students are abused and uneducated would be pernicious, toxic and just wrong.
I also know that abuse and subpar education occur in both settings, and that abuse in the home exists outside the context of education.
When formal education and home are the same venue, that is one less opportunity for an adult (namely, a teacher or school employee) to witness the results of abuse and intervene.
Some people might be coming for homeschooling, but I don’t think most are. I am, though, coming for those who would abuse or miseducate students, be it at home or at school. There’s really no need to defend the indefensible here.
- Suburban Mom - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 12:54 pm:
Are we all just acting like the Duggars don’t exist and there wasn’t a Netflix documentary about how they and their church community used homeschooling to educationally neglect their children and subject the female children to pretty extensive sexual abuse?
“Homeschooling as a cover for abuse” is not an unusual headline. I know plenty of homeschooling parents who do a great job. But let’s not kid ourselves: Homeschooling is abused by abusers. It is deeply concerning to me that the homeschooling advocates in Illinois want to pretend that abuse isn’t happening and people are just making things up. That’s like … step 1 in the playbook of child abuse, deny and minimize and insist it’s not happening here.
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 12:59 pm:
=There is some evidence most home schooled kids=
@RNUG, the only thing I would disagree with is your use of most. Most that you know may be accurate. Most that I know would not be accurate. Many or some makes more sense to me. Maybe I am just being pedantic.
With respect.
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 1:39 pm:
==Any serious effort to hold them to a particular standard would come off as restricting their religious freedom.==
I’m assuming they wouldn’t be restricted from including religious education at home. If they were I would be opposed to that. But I don’t see how making them adhere to basic standards regarding the three R’s for example would be stepping on their religious freedom.
- Pot calling kettle - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 1:51 pm:
=== But there is data, too. The ACT says homeschooled students consistently scored higher on the ACT than public schooled students, as recently as 2019.===
That data is highly influenced by selection bias. If a parent does a poor job educating their child, they’re not going to have them tested.
There does need to be some regulation. Neglecting a child’s education is a form of abuse that can have lifelong consequences.
- frustrated GOP - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 2:02 pm:
I’m guessing Howard is off the list for pies/ fresh baked goodies from home-schoolers every year.
I am of two minds, we have issues.
one, we can’t, as a society, keep parents from making really bad decisions regarding their parenting choices.
On the other hand, should we not have some minimum level of expectations of education for children. to protect children?
But I’m guessing Tara is off the pie brownie list. (They still do that, right?)
- Pundent - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 2:56 pm:
= should we not have some minimum level of expectations of education for children. to protect children?=
Particularly since teaching in a school requires formal education and certification not to mention continued education. There are no requirements for home school parents.
- Early Illinoisan - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 3:32 pm:
== “Good - let parent make choices for their kids. Who is a better advocate for their success?”
This is why I advocate for at-home surgery performed by moms and dads.
Who needs training or education when you’ve got very good intentions?==
Totally, get your point. So we should be able to sue teachers for professional malpractice then…right?
- Rudy’s teeth - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 3:44 pm:
A comment I shared with my students…If you continue acting out, I’ll recommend homeschooling to your parents so you can be at home with your parents all day long. No more sports, by music, or field trips for you. Okay, we’ll stop goofing around.
I replied, “Good choice.”
Our motto was Be respectful, be responsible, be resourceful. Life skills.
Many parents can provide a solid education through homeschooling. Others cannot. Keeping their students away from a solid academic background may not be in the best interest of the student.
- Lurker - Wednesday, Oct 23, 24 @ 3:47 pm:
Home-schooling should not only be regulated more, but the students should have to be seen and tested in a school every six months. Likewise, any student that has been abused or had DCFS involvement should not be allowed to be home-schooled. I simply do not understand how this is not universally accepted nationally.
- Odysseus - Thursday, Oct 24, 24 @ 2:55 am:
===Should homeschooling be regulated more in Illinois?===
Yes, absolutely.
There should be requirements along a number of axes - curriculum, testing, and more.
Maybe not strictly require adherence to Common Core, but some form of minimum subject matter and testing to demonstrate mastery, absolutely.