Any of the people who get banned from public comment at Springfield City Council meetings are more than welcome to come join us and speak to us at Chatham Village Board meetings. Those things have only been about 15-30 minutes of boredom more often than not in recent years.
Maybe Ken Pacha and Co. could come to Chatham and liven our meetings up:
The ISU Redbirds are your CBI Tournament champions.
- TheInvisibleMan - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 8:49 am:
Ugh. More details are coming out about that car found in the Fox river in Elgin.
–
But on Wednesday night, Elgin police said in a press release that they were approached by a man who believed he found the car in 2022.
–
–
A diver entered the river and made physical contact with a tire. But because of its small diameter, the diver thought the wheel belonged to an all-terrain or utility-task vehicle.
No further investigation was done.
On Wednesday, Fire Chief Robb Cagann said they made a mistake in not scrutinizing the incident further.
–
Earlier in the week I made a statement based on just my personal anecdotes, that I didn’t think officials really spent much time looking for missing persons.
Now, I’m certain this is what’s happening in most areas.
- Friendly Bob Adams - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 8:56 am:
It’s supposed to reach 60 degrees in beautiful DuPage County today, so perhaps I’ll do a tiny bit of yard work? Not feeling the motivation presently but who knows this afternoon….
Opening day. Unfortunately, not a lot to be optimistic about if you’re a Cards or White Sox fan. Cubs might be fun to watch, though. Make your way to a high school game this spring. Those are still the best.
I’ve become convinced over the years that “swear words” is just one of many “acceptable” excuses that people use to make problems disappear. We’re all adults, but these shrinking violets just cannot handle a few bad words?
I frankly do not trust anyone who makes an issue of swearing. “You said a bad word” is just a smokescreen for “I don’t want to address the substance of what you’re saying.”
=I frankly do not trust anyone who makes an issue of swearing. “You said a bad word” is just a smokescreen for “I don’t want to address the substance of what you’re saying.”=
Unfortunately, one bad word in public comment led to the infamous Thornton Township meeting brawl on Jan. 28.
It’s an FCC issue. These meetings are live-streamed and broadcast. Another person who received the same letter filed a complaint with the AG and he backed the city.
All legislative bodies have rules. If you can’t follow them stick to FB or X. They have no rules there.
I’m pretty sure it was more Tiffany Henyard’s governance that led to the brawl. “Don’t swear at someone running your city into their own pockets or they’ll attack you” allows the swearing to become the story rather than the violence and malfeasance actually at root.
You can say “those are the rules, leave if you don’t like them.” But it doesn’t change the fact that “You said a bad word” is just a smokescreen for “I don’t want to address the substance of what you’re saying.”
I’ve already acknowledged that’s the way it is. I’m already aware that “decorum” and “civility” are veneers under which injustice thrives.
I simply do not trust anyone who upholds or defends that particular status quo.
““decorum” and “civility” are veneers under which injustice thrives.”
Your premise is illogical. What does decorum and civility have to do with justice or injustice? Maintaining decorum and civility in public meetings helps to encourage diverse viewpoints. Adhering to standards of respect does not stifle justice.
Triggered by the word “ban,” I looked up Springfield’s rules for public comment. It does look to me like the council violated its own regulations. I found nothing about a 30-day ban in the listed rules, only ejection from the same meeting if council so decides.
The rules also suffer from imprecision. Only a person making “personal, impertinent, or slanderous remarks, or who becomes boisterous while addressing the Council may be requested to leave the meeting.” If by “impertinent” they mean profanity, they should change it to say so. Similarly, “boisterous” is vague and likely hard to defend in a review of potential OMA violations.
I just thought about another point when it comes to public comment meeting rules. Recently I read an opinion from the AG’s Public Access Counselor rejecting a rule against “slander” because it’s something that must be adjudicated by a court, not a city council.
Even the term profanity is imprecise. What I deem profane may be harmless to you and vice versa. Fun fact, before George Carlin’s “Seven Words You Can’t Say on Television” first performed in 1972, the FCC didn’t even have a specific list of profanity.
No one is “banned” from the meetings. They can still come and speak, they just won’t be shown on the livestream or broadcast. Even those that received a letter (two people) were able to speak this week.
Even the Lansing Journal’s Youtube coverage of the infamous Jan. 28 Thornton Township meeting kept Jedidiah Brown’s naughty language, unbleeped, which instigated the brawl. Despite its editor (Melanie Jongsma) extensively reviewing and analyzing each meeting video before putting it onto their Youtube account:
If you can’t understand FCC rules then I don’t know what to tell you. I think it’s laughable that you dismiss rules just because you don’t happen to agree with them.
Been back from South America for a week. Miss the upper 80’s weather.
- TheInvisibleMan - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 4:35 pm:
“If you can’t understand FCC rules then I don’t know what to tell you.”
I know to tell you that cable access channels have no restrictions from the FCC, nor does the FCC have any jurisdiction over this. FCC only applies to over-the-air broadcasts, not cable access channels.
Anyone in the city giving that excuse for what the city is doing, is just making something up to cover for the real reason.
…But on the merits, this is the sister of a woman injured in a crash with a former police officer (who appeared to my eyes to receive special treatment from his former fellow cops on-scene). A little grace should be extended.
- TheInvisibleMan - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 5:00 pm:
“cable operators can refuse to air public access programs containing obscenity.”
Which still has to meet the 3-prong test; It must appeal to an average person’s prurient interest; depict or describe sexual conduct in a “patently offensive” way; and, taken as a whole, lack serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value.
Not much more is considered having political value when taken as a whole, than a comment to a public body taking place during a council meeting.
But that’s changing the subject. Obscenity and profanity are different things, so the above issue is moot.
The FCC specifically addresses this distinction for cable TV.
“Because obscenity is not protected by the First Amendment, it is prohibited on cable, satellite and broadcast TV and radio. However, the same rules for indecency and profanity do not apply to cable, satellite TV and satellite radio because they are subscription services.”
- Leatherneck - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 8:04 am:
Any of the people who get banned from public comment at Springfield City Council meetings are more than welcome to come join us and speak to us at Chatham Village Board meetings. Those things have only been about 15-30 minutes of boredom more often than not in recent years.
Maybe Ken Pacha and Co. could come to Chatham and liven our meetings up:
https://newschannel20.com/news/local/city-council-issues-a-speaker-30-day-ban-from-public-broadcast#
- Neoga Strong - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 8:15 am:
Good to see this progress
https://www.wcia.com/cumberland-county/were-strong-neoga-students-back-in-school-after-tornado/
- 47th Ward - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 8:47 am:
The ISU Redbirds are your CBI Tournament champions.
- TheInvisibleMan - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 8:49 am:
Ugh. More details are coming out about that car found in the Fox river in Elgin.
–
But on Wednesday night, Elgin police said in a press release that they were approached by a man who believed he found the car in 2022.
–
–
A diver entered the river and made physical contact with a tire. But because of its small diameter, the diver thought the wheel belonged to an all-terrain or utility-task vehicle.
No further investigation was done.
On Wednesday, Fire Chief Robb Cagann said they made a mistake in not scrutinizing the incident further.
–
Earlier in the week I made a statement based on just my personal anecdotes, that I didn’t think officials really spent much time looking for missing persons.
Now, I’m certain this is what’s happening in most areas.
https://www.shawlocal.com/northwest-herald/news/2025/03/27/missing-womans-car-pulled-from-fox-river-tuesday-was-found-and-misidentified-3-years-ago
- Friendly Bob Adams - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 8:56 am:
It’s supposed to reach 60 degrees in beautiful DuPage County today, so perhaps I’ll do a tiny bit of yard work? Not feeling the motivation presently but who knows this afternoon….
- Capcitynewt - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 9:16 am:
Opening day. Unfortunately, not a lot to be optimistic about if you’re a Cards or White Sox fan. Cubs might be fun to watch, though. Make your way to a high school game this spring. Those are still the best.
- Chicago Voter - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 9:17 am:
Headed to the Sox opener. That’s one more game than last season but my expectations are in check.
- Bob - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 9:44 am:
@Leatherneck
I’ve become convinced over the years that “swear words” is just one of many “acceptable” excuses that people use to make problems disappear. We’re all adults, but these shrinking violets just cannot handle a few bad words?
I frankly do not trust anyone who makes an issue of swearing. “You said a bad word” is just a smokescreen for “I don’t want to address the substance of what you’re saying.”
- Bob - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 9:52 am:
@TheInvisibleMan
Institutionally speaking, police are there to protect the property and profits of the wealthy. The totality of their efforts make sense in such light.
- Leatherneck - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 9:58 am:
=I frankly do not trust anyone who makes an issue of swearing. “You said a bad word” is just a smokescreen for “I don’t want to address the substance of what you’re saying.”=
Unfortunately, one bad word in public comment led to the infamous Thornton Township meeting brawl on Jan. 28.
- FIREDup! - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 9:59 am:
@Bob
It’s an FCC issue. These meetings are live-streamed and broadcast. Another person who received the same letter filed a complaint with the AG and he backed the city.
All legislative bodies have rules. If you can’t follow them stick to FB or X. They have no rules there.
- Bob - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 10:06 am:
@Leatherneck
I’m pretty sure it was more Tiffany Henyard’s governance that led to the brawl. “Don’t swear at someone running your city into their own pockets or they’ll attack you” allows the swearing to become the story rather than the violence and malfeasance actually at root.
- Bob - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 10:10 am:
@FIREDup
You can say “those are the rules, leave if you don’t like them.” But it doesn’t change the fact that “You said a bad word” is just a smokescreen for “I don’t want to address the substance of what you’re saying.”
I’ve already acknowledged that’s the way it is. I’m already aware that “decorum” and “civility” are veneers under which injustice thrives.
I simply do not trust anyone who upholds or defends that particular status quo.
- FIREDup! - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 10:15 am:
@Bob
So you don’t trust rule followers? Only anarchists?
There are consequences to actions. That’s life.
- Bob - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 10:53 am:
@FIREDup
I do not worship “rules.” I don’t trust people who implement and uphold “rules” that further injustice for the benefit of the wealthy and privileged.
- Annonin' - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 11:16 am:
MLB opening day. Cubs already 0-2. But so far Cards and White Sox undefeated.
- Steve Polite - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 11:28 am:
““decorum” and “civility” are veneers under which injustice thrives.”
Your premise is illogical. What does decorum and civility have to do with justice or injustice? Maintaining decorum and civility in public meetings helps to encourage diverse viewpoints. Adhering to standards of respect does not stifle justice.
- yinn - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 11:29 am:
@Leatherneck
Triggered by the word “ban,” I looked up Springfield’s rules for public comment. It does look to me like the council violated its own regulations. I found nothing about a 30-day ban in the listed rules, only ejection from the same meeting if council so decides.
The rules also suffer from imprecision. Only a person making “personal, impertinent, or slanderous remarks, or who becomes boisterous while addressing the Council may be requested to leave the meeting.” If by “impertinent” they mean profanity, they should change it to say so. Similarly, “boisterous” is vague and likely hard to defend in a review of potential OMA violations.
https://cityclerk.springfield.il.us/Government/RulesAndProcedures.aspx (#8 Citizen’s Rights)
- Bob - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 11:32 am:
@Steve
I’ve literally already answered this.
>“You said a bad word” is just a smokescreen for “I don’t want to address the substance of what you’re saying.”
- Bob - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 11:33 am:
@yinn
That’s intentional. They want it as broad as possible so they can use it to make “problems” go away.
- yinn - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 11:38 am:
I just thought about another point when it comes to public comment meeting rules. Recently I read an opinion from the AG’s Public Access Counselor rejecting a rule against “slander” because it’s something that must be adjudicated by a court, not a city council.
- Steve Polite - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 11:42 am:
Yinn,
Even the term profanity is imprecise. What I deem profane may be harmless to you and vice versa. Fun fact, before George Carlin’s “Seven Words You Can’t Say on Television” first performed in 1972, the FCC didn’t even have a specific list of profanity.
- FIREDup! - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 11:46 am:
No one is “banned” from the meetings. They can still come and speak, they just won’t be shown on the livestream or broadcast. Even those that received a letter (two people) were able to speak this week.
- Bob - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 12:09 pm:
@FIREDup
Distinction without difference.
- Leatherneck - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 12:28 pm:
Even the Lansing Journal’s Youtube coverage of the infamous Jan. 28 Thornton Township meeting kept Jedidiah Brown’s naughty language, unbleeped, which instigated the brawl. Despite its editor (Melanie Jongsma) extensively reviewing and analyzing each meeting video before putting it onto their Youtube account:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbdQdC_hS8w (at the 1:26:20 mark)
- Bob - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 12:33 pm:
@Leatherneck
You’re still making the issue the swear word rather than Tiffany Henyard’s “governance.”
- Demoralized - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 1:40 pm:
Bob:
If you can’t understand FCC rules then I don’t know what to tell you. I think it’s laughable that you dismiss rules just because you don’t happen to agree with them.
- Huh? - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 2:47 pm:
Been back from South America for a week. Miss the upper 80’s weather.
- TheInvisibleMan - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 4:35 pm:
“If you can’t understand FCC rules then I don’t know what to tell you.”
I know to tell you that cable access channels have no restrictions from the FCC, nor does the FCC have any jurisdiction over this. FCC only applies to over-the-air broadcasts, not cable access channels.
Anyone in the city giving that excuse for what the city is doing, is just making something up to cover for the real reason.
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 4:50 pm:
===cable access channels have no restrictions from the FCC===
They are governed by federal law, and cable operators can refuse to air public access programs containing obscenity.
https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/cable-television
Some of y’all need to learn how to use the Google. I found that in like 30 seconds.
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 4:54 pm:
…But on the merits, this is the sister of a woman injured in a crash with a former police officer (who appeared to my eyes to receive special treatment from his former fellow cops on-scene). A little grace should be extended.
- TheInvisibleMan - Thursday, Mar 27, 25 @ 5:00 pm:
“cable operators can refuse to air public access programs containing obscenity.”
Which still has to meet the 3-prong test; It must appeal to an average person’s prurient interest; depict or describe sexual conduct in a “patently offensive” way; and, taken as a whole, lack serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value.
Not much more is considered having political value when taken as a whole, than a comment to a public body taking place during a council meeting.
But that’s changing the subject. Obscenity and profanity are different things, so the above issue is moot.
The FCC specifically addresses this distinction for cable TV.
“Because obscenity is not protected by the First Amendment, it is prohibited on cable, satellite and broadcast TV and radio. However, the same rules for indecency and profanity do not apply to cable, satellite TV and satellite radio because they are subscription services.”
https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/obscene-indecent-and-profane-broadcasts