22 Comments » - Leslie K - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 1:11 pm: Does HB3528 actually do anything new? (Honest question.) Maybe it’s helpful as a polcy statement? SB1584, extending short-term approvals to account for FMLA time, seems like it could be helpful. A short-term approval presumably gives a person time to get set for full approval, and FMLA time is time that can’t be spent working to that goal. - Just Me 2 - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 1:11 pm: How do those results compare to other industries? - Just Another Anon - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 1:25 pm: Honestly, I think the “Respect for the position” thing is just a general lack of respect, especially among parents. At the risk of unironically saying “Kids these days”, there has been a shift from holding kids accountable for their failure to learn to blaming teachers for kids failure to learn. That’s not to say that there aren’t teachers doing a poor job, but the immediate response seems to be “Timmy isn’t learning and its your fault” vs “Timmy isn’t learning, what can he do to learn better”. Similar with discipline issues. - City Zen - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 1:29 pm: ==59% of teachers, higher education professors and education support staff are considering leaving the profession== Both the latest and historical numbers show state and local education has the lowest quit rates of any industry sector outside the federal government. Teachers may say they’re leaving the profession, but they rarely do. To the question…giving student teachers some form of compensation seems like a pretty good idea. The most workable is removing any barriers to cpmpensation if they exist. - Sue - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 1:30 pm: Curious as to whether IEA has run the same or similar survey in years past and how they compare- My guess is if they ran the same survey 5/10/15/20 years past the results would be similar - btowntruth from forgottonia - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 1:36 pm: Neither will help much. Starting salaries for teachers need to be higher,especially in rural districts. But that would mean higher taxes and peolle will scream over that. And they can’t legislate respect into some of the kids and a bunch of the parents and all of the social media trolls and “experts” on education and child behavior. - Mason County - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 1:38 pm: Just Another Anon summed it up better than I could. - Remember the Alamo II - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 1:39 pm: === Honestly, I think the “Respect for the position” thing is just a general lack of respect, especially among parents. At the risk of unironically saying “Kids these days”, there has been a shift from holding kids accountable for their failure to learn to blaming teachers for kids failure to learn. That’s not to say that there aren’t teachers doing a poor job, but the immediate response seems to be “Timmy isn’t learning and its your fault” vs “Timmy isn’t learning, what can he do to learn better”. Similar with discipline issues. === Bingo - Downstate - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 1:40 pm: The teachers that I know that have left public education have done so for two reasons. 1. “Protocols” required for handling a disruptive student can eat up as much as 50% of every learning day. 2. Related the #1, the lack of respect for authority that students have for the teachers has made it a thankless job. Is it any wonder that private schools are having a much easier time filling the ranks of both teachers and students? - Mason County - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 1:41 pm: A constant concern I hear from actual teachers is the lack of discipline in the classrooms. I do wonder why the IEA has not been more forceful, in contract language, on this issue. - Steve - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 1:52 pm: -97% spend their own personal income on supplies for their students and classrooms- Teachers shouldn’t have to pay a nickle for things in their classroom. That’s outragous. - Jane - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 2:03 pm: Student teachers aren’t paid - that’s true. Generally speaking, it’s a form of internship-for-college credit, and the lack of pay is based on the premise that the student isn’t really “earning” a wage, and the supervising teacher might not be in front of the class but instead has the responsibility of, well, supervising as well as mentoring. Why else would the bill propose providing a stipend for the supervising teacher, rather than reassigning them to other duties? It also makes no sense to frame it as a “barrier” to becoming a teacher, when it is part and parcel of getting a university education, which is likewise unpaid. It surely makes more sense to make provision for “non-standard” cases — grant money for students who are earning their degrees part-time while holding down a full-time day job, who are obliged to quit that day job, or students who for whatever reason can’t student-teach while living at their university housing or their parents’ homes, and who have added living expenses as a result. CityZen is spot on that it makes little sense to cite stats of “considering leaving their jobs” without looking at actual quit rates. All that being said, the most significant “new” issue (according to my twitter feed) is that to a growing degree, schools have given up on student discipline, creating a chaotic environment at certain schools, and threatening teachers’ safety. I am curious whether teachers were given this as an option on the list of concerns or whether the “real” nature of teachers’ concerns was limited by what the union deemed appropriate in designing the survey. - Just Another Anon - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 2:05 pm: To the financial proposals: (1) I don’t think a state stipend will really go that far. My guess is a bunch of colleges will simply increase tuition by 10k. That’s why education costs rose at over 5 times the rate of inflation over the past forty years. Colleges have a desire to take all available monies and make it theirs. Whether its grants, tuition or books, they shake you down as much as possible and leave you desperate and penniless. (2) I don’t know if PSLF currently works this way for teachers, but I would support time student teaching counting for forgiveness under the PSLF program. (3) I don’t thinks teachers should have to pay for basic classroom supplies. I don’t think students should have to pay for basic classroom supplies (the whole, everyone owes x boxes of kleenex, y rolls of paper towels, is a joke considering the tax monies spent on public education). I think each district should cut principal and admin salaries so that they can afford to fully equip their classrooms with necessary supplies. Education funding priorities are misplaced, funding bureaucracy and not classrooms. - Jane - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 2:13 pm: Also, the idea of teachers spending personal money on their classrooms seems solvable. Teachers in Illinois are unionized. Why wouldn’t they negotiate an “allowance” per classroom or even just have a supply room with cheery posters? Same with classroom libraries — every now and again on my local “buy nothing” or community Facebook groups, there’s a retired teacher giving away her classroom library or a new teacher trying to build hers, and it doesn’t make any sense that these are owned by individual teachers! - Anyone Remember - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 2:32 pm: ===I do wonder why the IEA has not been more forceful, in contract language, on this issue.=== Guessing the school boards? Never seen a group of people so afraid of being sued as school board administrators / elected board members. Here is Springfield, comments, whether it is just an ignorant remark or bald faced lie, are just ignored. - clec dcn - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 3:06 pm: I don’t think any will work that well. Teachers lack respect from students and parents. We might want to overhaul some aspects of who can teach and what qualifies them to teach. There are I believe many great teachers who are simply out doing things not teaching. It is like known musical giant who can teach music in college because they are musical performers. This could be applied to many subjects. A small business owner who runs and successful business. They have the experience although teaching requires a different task. - H-W - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 3:40 pm: As a professor of 40 years, I have never heard any students saying, “I would go into teaching except for the fact that student teaching is a fiscal burden.” I would suggest the shortage is more likely the result of students matriculating into college majors, who do not want to be teachers. That seems to be the main reason for a shortage. As to the suggestions for reducing the shortage of teachers, HB 3528 makes little sense. It seems to assume that some universities force students to work without pay. As a professor, I have seen some academic programs that require paid internships (business majors, usually), and some academic programs not allow paid internships (Arts & Sciences majors in my observations). But I have never seen a university state that teachers’ education majors cannot be paid during student teaching. It sounds as if this bill is an easy way for a legislator to say, I passed a bill that sounded good but did nothing and cost nothing. As to HB 1375, this sounds like a good idea in principle, but a bit questionable in practice. For example, I would suggest two semesters is one semester too much. Student teaching is a semester long program. If a student does not pass in one semester, I cannot see why taxpayers should fund a second semester. I would suggest start smaller – one semester stipend. Finally, I would suggest if student teachers are going to receive some funding from the state, then the hosting district should also have some skin in the game as well. I am not sure what that would look like, but I imagine that is a non-starter for school districts in general. Senate Bill 1584 almost seems like a no-brainer. If employers in general are expected to allow for family and medical leave, why on earth would our state even consider not requiring school districts to do the same? Anything less is punishment. - Big Picture - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 4:07 pm: I second what Jane wrote — “It surely makes more sense to make provision for “non-standard” cases — grant money for students who are earning their degrees part-time while holding down a full-time day job, who are obliged to quit that day job, or students who for whatever reason can’t student-teach while living at their university housing or their parents’ homes, and who have added living expenses as a result.” —- In addition, I’d add there needs to be some data on both how common is the “non-standard” case is now (1%, 5%, 25%, 50%), and, more important, how many people, especially people that are already working with children (teacher assistants, youth programs, etc.) dismiss the possibility of completing their degrees and becoming a certified teacher because a semester (or two) without paid employment is a non-starter. Thinking about “student teaching” as a paid apprenticeship rather than an unpaid internship can be useful. - JS Mill - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 4:16 pm: First, 90% of our issues (and I think I am being conservative with that number) are related to parents and lousy parenting. =94% of IEA members work additional hours outside their contractual workday.= Oh no, salaried professionals have to work more than a 7.5 hour day? I will clutch my pearls later. Statements like that do not support teachers and lowers people’s opinions of them. I don’t think the NEA gets that =97% spend their own personal income on supplies for their students and classrooms with one in four educators spending at least $500 on things such as pencils, furniture and hygiene products.= I certainly cannot speak for all schools and don’t pretend to, but our staff do not HAVE to spend their own money on basics. We cover more than the basics amply. So I see that statement as somewhat dubious. Do they buy things with their own money? Of course. But I don’t think we should cover candy and an endless color wheel of construction paper. =Guessing the school boards?= Student discipline is not subject to collective bargaining. Nor should it be. =To the question…giving student teachers some form of compensation seems like a pretty good idea. The most workable is removing any barriers to cpmpensation if they exist.= None exist. We pay student teachers and have been for five years. They are placed on the salary schedule at step 1. ==If employers in general are expected to allow for family and medical leave, why on earth would our state even consider not requiring school districts to do the same?= That is not what the bill is for. It is to allow credit for FMLA time and extend short term licensing. All public schools allow FMLA and have for decades. =They have the experience although teaching requires a different task.= Because you can do something and do it well does not mean you can teach it. Especially to teenagers, the most learning resistant humans on earth sometimes (a little snarky there). We have had successes and failures hiring people with a CTE license (grants licensure with 2000 of industry experience). My advice on growing and retaining teachers is for universities to do a far more extensive and intensive teacher preparation process. Definitely not less which seems to be the answer from some. The absolute best teachers we hire these day are from ISU’s professional development school. It is more rigorous and diverse student teaching experience and much longer. Due to those factors the teachers a better prepared for the realities they face when they enter the classroom for the first time. To the person that posted that the should lower admin salaries, lol. Why don’t you give it a try as an admin. If the NEA thinks the typical 7.5 hour day is too much try mine which is never less than 9 and every week I put in at least two 12 hour days. Not a complaint because I wouldn’t do it any other way. Just a fact. And admin get hammered for every mistake made by everyone else. There is a reason why the number of new admins has gone down faster than the number of teachers as a percentage. I am just too dumb to do something else or want to. BTW admin costs average less than 5%. Private sector admin cost range from 6% to 12%. - Da big bad wolf - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 4:28 pm: === Both the latest and historical numbers show state and local education has the lowest quit rates of any industry sector=== Other surveys: https://www.nysscpa.org/article-content/survey-almost-half-of-professionals-want-to-quit-their-jobs-051024 So 46% is 3%. - Da big bad wolf - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 4:32 pm: That’s weird. My comment edited itself to be incoherent. The last part was: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/18/harvard-researchers-the-great- resignation-is-over-but-workers-still-want-to-quitheres-why.html 3% of the workforce. And yet Rand says teacher quit at 6% a year. https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA956-29.html 6% > 3%. - Proud Papa Bear - Thursday, May 15, 25 @ 4:51 pm: I’ve studied this issue deeply for about five years. I’ve helped to edit statewide publications on the matter, and I serve on groups that address this. First, we need to clarify: we do not have a “teacher shortage.” We have a shortage of people willing to work in hard-to-staff positions, especially within hard-to-staff schools. We need fewer people applying to schools in affluent suburbs and more applying to hard-to-staff schools. But how do you get people to relocate far away from their families for low pay? While I am a strong and proud member of the IEA, the statements from others on this board are true; survey results routinely say that teachers are planning to quit in droves, but they seldom do. Teaching has one of the highest retention rates of any profession. To address some comments: “Student teachers aren’t paid - that’s true.” Some are. It is legal in Illinois to pay student teachers. “Starting salaries for teachers need to be higher, especially in rural districts.” Absolutely. I’m friends with a teacher from Forgottonia who has the same number of years of experience as I do, and he makes (significantly) less than half of what I make. If only we had a system that was less reliant on local property taxes… “As a professor of 40 years, I have never heard any students saying, “I would go into teaching except for the fact that student teaching is a fiscal burden.” I respect your contributions on this page very much, and I understand that that is your experience, but my experience is from the other end. Many people aren’t in the college programs to begin with because they’re aware of that hurdle, and they know they won’t be able to swing it. I was in my 30s with a family, and I almost didn’t go into teaching because of this. Fortunately, I had an amazing extended family who floated me until I got through student teaching. Just this week, I met yet another person who said she would have become a teacher but for the unpaid student teaching requirement. “It seems to assume that some universities force students to work without pay.” According to Rep. Laura Faver-Dias, who’s on the Education Policy Committee, some universities do, in fact, bar paid student teaching. Regarding the breakdown of respect, I work in the type of class that would remind you of The Sweathogs from Welcome Back Kotter (I’m aging myself). Still, I feel supported by (most of) my students, their families, and my administration. The only ones I don’t feel respected by are a few of my students and their families, and the Federal government. TrackBack URI Anonymous commenters, uncivil comments, rumor-mongering, disinformation and profanity of any kind will be deleted. Name/Nickname - Required (required) E-mail - Not required (required) URL - Not required