53 Comments - Cincinnatus - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 11:23 am: http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/sales_tax_2012.png - wordslinger - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 11:27 am: It’s crazy. Believe it or not, it used to be worse. Back in the 40s, there were more than 10,000 units of local government. Out of 102 counties, more than 40 have fewer than 20,000 people. You get more people than that at Cominskey Park every night, and they’re not drawing well. Many of those counties have fewer than 10,000 people, some as few as 5,000. These are artificial units with borders drawn up back in the 1820s, based on a cowpath or something, that have no bearing on efficient delivery of service today. - The Doc - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 11:30 am: Cincinnatus, what’s your point, and why is it relevant to this post? If you’re arguing that our combined rates are high, I agree. If your solution is to lower the rates with no offset, you’re a hack. - Cincinnatus - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 11:30 am: http://scorecard.assetsandopportunity.org/2012/measure/tax-burden-by-income - Cincinnatus - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 11:32 am: Often excluded from these talks are the overall sales tax which is not a “taxing district” per se. We have a relatively high sales tax, in addition to being nibbled to death by ducks with taxing districts. I just posted a total tax burden chart which you can use to sort in various ways to look at total tax burden based on income. - mokenavince - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 11:35 am: I think Illinois could cut it to below 5000 without hurting services. Pennsylvania has a population pretty close to our,if they can do it the is no reason we can’t. Paying a school supertinents thousands of dollars to run 1 or 2 schools in nuts. Texas is twice our size and they do it.Were smaller than New York and they have 1/2 the gonvernments we do. Wake up Illinois. Were getting robbed. - Secret Square - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 11:36 am: I don’t recall where I first heard this, but isn’t the proliferation of special districts a legacy of the 1870 Constitution, which limited the amount of debt a unit of government could carry? Under that constitution, if a municipality, for instance, couldn’t afford to issue bonds for a library they would get around that by creating a library district for that purpose. Also, there was a drastic reduction in the number of local governments after WWII — from 15,000 + in 1942 to about 7,500 a decade later — that was largely the result of a big push to consolidate rural schools (some of which were still just one-room schoolhouses at the time). - dupage dan - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 11:40 am: Much easier to expand gov’t then it is to shrink it. The commission has an impossible task even if it is agressive. Did Pennsylvania shrink the number of gov’t units mokenavince, or have they always had less units? - cermak_rd - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 11:53 am: Aren’t some of the districts, like mosquito abatement districts, designed to be cross-jurisdiction so that Berwyn and Cicero (for instance) don’t have to each have a separate mosquito control unit? Same with school districts. Having Forest Park, Maywood and Westchester in the same high school district means each town doesn’t have the burden of maintaining its own high school. - Endangered Moderate Species - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 11:56 am: The history of local governments actually came from our puritan ancestors (conservatives). Many of the States ancestral citizens believed decisions should be made at the closest level possible to the people being affected by those decisions. Until recently, local active governments were viewed as positive assets to democratic governance. - Anonymous - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 11:58 am: This has ben an intractable problem in Illinois because every pol has a brother-in-law who needs a job. - Give Me A Break - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 12:01 pm: Wait, where is smaller govt., death to all taxes, tae baggers and GOP members on this. Could it be that like closing state facilities, they get weak at the knees when they have to put votes on downsizing gvt? - Plutocrat03 - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 12:10 pm: “brother-in-law who needs a job” What better job than a supervisor of a revenue stream…..nice office, well paid staff, benefits. retirement, mmmmmmmmmmm - Shemp - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 12:18 pm: Townships could be dissolved into the counties with almost no noticeable loss, but there are a lot of fiefdoms and favors in township government. Besides, the State has seemed to disfavor consolidation as it tends to reduce jobs as well. - Shemp - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 12:26 pm: Oh, and TIF districts aren’t a separate level of local government. - Old Shepherd - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 12:28 pm: **Aren’t some of the districts, like mosquito abatement districts, designed to be cross-jurisdiction so that Berwyn and Cicero (for instance) don’t have to each have a separate mosquito control unit?** Why does there have to be a “Mosquito abatement district” so that these two communities can fight mosquitoes? Can’t they just enter into an intergovernmental agreement without forming a separate taxing district? - Jimbo - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 12:40 pm: These many units are the training ground for future politicians,a great source of income to attorneys and other professionals who act as highly paid staff for people who may have little knowledge of the issues related to the unit’s scope or authority.The creation of some may had been a good idea at the time of creation.Now,it’s main purpose may be assuring it’s existence[Illinois Tollroad Authority].Some critical review could weed some useless one out-like some townships and special districts. - steve schnorf - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 12:41 pm: And yet when you add it all up and shake it out, the total state and local tax burden on Illinois residents is low, not high - McLean Farmboy - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 12:46 pm: It is fascinating to me how people with no clue what these districts do can claim to know that they are not needed. As far as services go, local control of your own fire, library, drainage, cemetery, road, or whatever district is preferred to some bureaucrat in an office in the county seat being in charge. As an elected official, I know where my road commissioner lives, and if I have a problem, I can stop by and see him to get something done. The same is true for all of the local districts. It is also very important to remember that at some point, some more recently than others, that a majority of voters in these districts actually VOTED (in an honest-to-God election no less) to create these districts and, by the way, to fund them, and I don’t think the state has any business overturning the expressed will of the people simply because somebody in Springfield doesn’t like the outcome. I have no idea what the folks in Chicago, or Cook County, need. I have no interest in telling them how to run their local units of government. If you have more than you need, vote to change it. But, kindly leave those of us that have local units that work alone. We don’t need a one-size-fits-all solution here. - just observing - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 12:46 pm: This is one of the most pressing issues facing our state… unfortunately it will require more political guts than our elected officials are willing to exert. - CU Voter - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 12:48 pm: Without looking at the overall local and state tax rate, you really can’t call it a problem. So called efficiencies because of consolidation are fantasies in my book. Are Chicago Public Schools more efficient because they are combined with the City of Chicago in terms of governance? There’s a tenuous balance between efficiency through consolidation and accountability. As Steve noted, the overall burden is not excessive. - Judgment Day - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 12:50 pm: Enormous waste of time. Just a few things that illustrate the impermeable morass that consists of layers of local government. First off, for even the most rural areas of IL, you have the following local government tax districts: 1) County government (there’s 102 Counties in IL) 2) Township government (in all but the Commission Counties, think there’s like 26 Commission Counties, mostly all in central/southern IL) 3) If they are a Township based County, then there’s also a corresponding Township Road district (officially in theory part of Township government, but in practice, the Township Road Commissioner is an operator unto itself). 4) Community College. Everyplace statewide is in a community college district. 5) Local school districts (either CPS; or a Unit School district [G1-G12]; of a combination Grade School/High School district). That’s the most basic arrangement you can have. Then you get to add in Municipalities, Fire Protection Districts, all sorts of different special districts; Sanitary districts, Water protection districts; Park districts, etc., etc. - the list is almost never ending. It’s quite common for a specific piece of property to be paying to 9 or 10 (or more) tax districts. Confusing is an understatement. And all these different tax districts have specially (targeted) local taxing abilities. See the IL DOR Property Tax Rate and Levy Manual. The link for the 2010 year is tax.illinois.gov/publications/LocalGovernment/PTAX-60.pdf If you have a troubling case of insomnia, it’s perfect for you. IMO, it’s not near as much about potential loss of jobs as it is about (a) Spreading the true cost of government across such a confusing and opaque structure to avoid clarity for taxpayers, (b) Avoiding efficiency at all costs, and (C) Allowing the State of IL to freely meddle in local government responsibilities without having to take any of the responsibility for their actions. - Shore - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 12:53 pm: 20 years ago they passed some education reform law which cut down the number of school districts and forced consolidation. In our area I don’t think it did any harm. This should also be a thread for most ridiculous unit of government. On the North Shore there is something called a North Shore sanitary district which seems mostly like an employment program for a Democratic committeemen and for those of you youngsters out there has a website that looks exactly like the first ones that came out in 1994. http://www.northshoresanitary.org/ - Belle - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 12:57 pm: As the brother-in-laws are up for retirement, shut down those districts instead of inserting new hook-uped, incompetents in those jobs. I’m making it sound easy since someone always owes a favor, some pay-back or has a relative who needs a govt job. - Skeeter - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 1:03 pm: I’m still trying to figure out why Chicago needs fifty aldermen. But as a Chicago guy, I’ve looked at the number of counties and wondered. Are the rural counties sufficiently diverse in interests that they need a separate governing body? - McLean Farmboy - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 1:04 pm: Judgment day: How in the world can you claim that by combining the road commisioner and the community college district you create efficiency! Repetition of the drive-by talking points does not make them accurate, just stale. And…please explain how the state is “freely meddle in local government responsibilities”. I don’t know aboput other counties, but I pay ONE property tax bill to the county. The county distributes to the other bodies. While my tax bill breakes them all down so I can see who will be getting what, it is still all on the same bill. - titan - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 1:09 pm: I seem to recall something from the DuPage County Board Chairman that the county had lots (perhpas a couple dozen) entities to battle mosquitos, all of which contracted with the same spraying company. If that is the case, that sort of things might well be more eficiently handled by centralizing it to the county. - wordslinger - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 1:10 pm: –I’m still trying to figure out why Chicago needs fifty aldermen.– It keeps anyone from building a large enough power base to run for mayor. - Joe M. - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 1:13 pm: Rural townships usually have two paid positions and services - a road commissioner to maintain the township roads (including snow removal) — and a township assessor to value property for property taxes. An argument for keeping those two services at the township level is that they can be done better, and at a more responsive level by a local official than by county officials who may be 20 - 30 miles away who has no ties to the area. Libraries that don’t have their own district - but are part of a city or county’s government, are often the first places in that city or county’s budget that gets cut. So there is a good argument for separate library districts as opposed to them being part of a city or county’s government structure - that is, if you want to have good libraries and library services. - Shemp - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 1:29 pm: Townships can’t do it any better than the county. The county still has to maintain an assessor office over the township office. There’s no reason counties couldn’t take over township roads. Many townships meet at times most can’t make it. Almost no one covers them or keeps tabs on them because they stay under the radar. That’s where it gets real easy to take on pet projects and to spend more keeping yourself employed than spending on road projects. While there is plenty of merit in more local authority and control, you can add so many interconnected layers that locals no longer have control. - Conservative Veteran - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 1:38 pm: Shore, I agree that some school districts should be consolidated. I lived in CA, CO, KS, AR, OK, and OH. In all of those states, each school district includes at least one high school, at least one junior high, and at least one elem. school. IL has too many school districts that include one school each. Each of those districts may levy a property tax, and each of them has a superintendent, with an average salary of about $120,000, per year. Having small districts don’t always improve education. Five of the six other states, that I mentioned, have higher average ACT & SAT scores than IL. Five of the other six states have lower drop-out rates than IL. - Anonymous - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 1:47 pm: Not sure I understand why the headline calls this situation a “problem.” For whom is it a problem and why? - VanillaMan - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 1:58 pm: There were once more governments in Illinois, yet few complaints of overtaxing. Now there are fewer Illinois governments, and folks are concerned about taxes. So, how is the number of local governments a problem? It isn’t the number of governments, it is the size of a few. Smaller government does not mean fewer governments. Sustainable governments should be the key, not fewer but larger. - VanillaMan - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 2:01 pm: It is offensive to call people names like “tea baggers”. They are our neighbors exercising their rights too. - Judgment Day - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 2:09 pm: McLean Farmboy: Not claiming (never did) that combining a Community College & a Township Road Commissioner will increase efficiency. Didn’t say that - you might want to try & avoid making ’straw man’ arguments. But when I’m talking about efficiency, I’m talking about why does each township road commissioner have to be elected? I’ve dealt with great township road commissioners, and then some real duds. Why not have the option to outsource to a local business all the township (secondary) roads maintenance? What’s wrong with a little competition? As to “drive-by talking points does not make them accurate, just stale.” comment. Sorry, but I qualify as a “Been There, Done That”. As to the “freely meddling in local governments” part - it happens all the time. First off, all those taxes to local governments - all the authority to do that comes from the State of Illinois. If you don’t believe me, take a gander at the IL Tax Rate and Levy manual noted above. Also, why do you think at every turn whenever there’s any new legislation passed effecting local government, there’s usually some type of fiscal note attached, along with the normal boiler plate text exempting the State from any fiscal obligations created for the affected units of local government by the new legislation. When the state passes new legislation resulting in increase fiscal obligations and/or operating costs at the local government level - doesn’t that seem to you to be a case of state government meddling in local government responsibilities.. The state telling the locals on how to do the work (and accompanying responsibility), and then sticking them with the bill… Nice work if you can get it. - McLean Farmboy - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 2:10 pm: Shemp-”Townships can’t do it any better than the county. ” Yes, they can. And often do. My county has 366 miles of county roads maintianed by the county and 1539 miles of township roads maintained by 30 different township road commisioners. My township has about 20 miles of surface roads. Getting them plowed is by far faster with a road commisioner that farms just down the road than with a county plow crew that does not live anywhere near me. - Anyone Remember? - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 2:10 pm: Anonymous 1:47 Its a “problem” as local governments can break the law (whether intentionally or unintentionally) in plain sight and no one is aware of it, due to the sheer number of local governments. Isn’t that a major reason that we now have FOIA / Open Meetings Act training for public body members? Anyone remember when the Illinois Press Association has tried concentrated FOIA efforts, and the response? http://www.nwherald.com/mobile/article.xml/articles/2012/06/15/r_mfkyqkpsthwryqmgpjfxaq/index.xml - Bill White - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 2:17 pm: @Cincinnatus - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 11:30 am: http://scorecard.assetsandopportunity.org/2012/measure/tax-burden-by-income = = = Cincy, doesn’t this links support an argument for a progressive income tax? It looks like IL is ranked 3rd highest in taxes paid as percentage of income for the bottom 20% and is ranked 10th lowest score for taxes paid as percentage of income for the top 1%. Taken together, IL may very well have the least progressive tax structure of all 50 states. Am I missing something? - Bill White - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 2:19 pm: - steve schnorf - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 12:41 pm: And yet when you add it all up and shake it out, the total state and local tax burden on Illinois residents is low, not high = = = I agree with this, but try getting the Tribune Editorial Board to agree. - Bill White - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 2:22 pm: Sorry, a typo. IL has 3rd highest for bottom 20% and 12th lowest for top 1% . . . - McLean Farmboy - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 2:28 pm: Judgment Day: I, too, have known many a road commissioner that has not been competent in thier position. Just because voters make dumb decisions does not mean that those positions should be eliminated. (If that wre true, depending upon your political persuasion, the election of George R. or Rod B. would be justification enough for eliminating Gov.) And I believe that no mater what structure the local government has, the GA and Gov would still be handing down bad rules and unfunded mandates. It may actually make it easier for them if there were less units; it may cause less negative reactions. - Judgment Day - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 2:31 pm: Tell you a little story about how stupid things get: Recently brought into the middle of a local government operations in a specific area (decent size county, some money’s available, and resources exist) where a several mil a year operation which has extensive daily contacts with private sector entities is failing - it’s falling further and further behind in meeting responsibilities on a timely basis, metrics (validity) are shaky and getting worse, and morale for everybody is in the toilet. Have solutions, and can work with staff and leadership to fix the issues. And the changes would have reduced costs (and that’s after spending money to fix the issues), so their currently deteriorating cash flow position would have reversed and started to improve. Had to walk away. Problems cannot be corrected. Between the unions, the resulting “Starve The Beast” attitude of the governing board, and the crazy administrative structure that has developed over time - it’s a real life “Gordian Knot” (an intractable problem solved easily by cheating or “thinking outside the box”). But in the current process, “Thinking Outside The Box” isn’t allowed. And it is terribly frustrating. - Madison - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 2:33 pm: A lot of this stuff is clearly duplicitous. Especially in cook county, the township assessors assess nothing, the clerk registers voters. The staff all help giving out stuff you could download for nothing. Pointless. - Observing - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 2:41 pm: Seems to me that many moons ago…even many blue moons ago…State Rep. Doug Kane unsuccessfully tried to legislate a reduction in special districts. Does anyone recall the same? - Margaret - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 2:54 pm: It concerns me how readily people will argue an issue without knowing the facts. Important context is missing from this discussion, which could lead to bad public policy down the line. Relative to population, Illinois has FEWER local and state employees than the national average. There are more units, but overall we have fewer government workers. US Dept of Labor and Census data say that IL has 563 local and state employees for every 10,000 residents, while the national average is 598. Source: Employment: USDOL http://www.bls.gov/sae/data.htm charts ew10table8.pdf + ew10table9.pdf; Population: US Census http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/17000.html - Ed Observer - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 2:59 pm: Another twist on this if you really THINK… Many people seem to make the assumption that having more (i.e. a greater number) of local units of government is a bad thing. My question is, why would that matter, unless it actually costs you, as an individual taxpayer, more? Many posters assume this to be the case, but I would like someone to prove this. As a taxpayer, I don’t care how many units of government across the state there are. What I do care about is how much the ones I pay for cost me. Most of these units of government are locally funded, with those local boards accountable to those local taxpayers. What I pay for where I live largely does not impact you where you live. Furthermore, another assumption must be that having less units that are larger in size will cost you less. My response to that is, since when did having bigger governments start costing less? To take that argument to the extreme, let’s just have one big school district in Illinois. Does anyone seriously think that because we had one school district it would cost less in aggregate than the 800+ we have now? Of course it wouldn’t. It’s LOCAL control folks. The last thing you want is the Illinois General Assembly or the Governor messing with what some magic number should be. What matters is the taxes you pay on YOUR property tax bill. Let’s not even pretend like our state tax rate is high because it just isn’t. Oh, and for the record, I am a fiscal conservative. If you think I am wrong, please tell me how. - Anonymous - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 3:27 pm: EO- One reason: There are certain functions each unit of government must perform, and having a separate accountant, director, whatever, adds up. There are economies of scale. Another reason: many of the units, like townships in Cook County, don’t really have much to do. A third reason — while many governmen employees are hard-working, some employees at some units have some, ahem, downtime. If units in neighboring geographic areas or overlapping subject areas were combined, there could be additional savings. - Quidproquote - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 3:38 pm: There a reason we have so many units of local government. The 1870 constitution put in place borrowing limits. Once our society looked at roads and sewer systems as necessities instead of luxuries, it became necessary to create these special units to get financing. The 1970s constitution rolled this back, but it’s going to take a while to undue 100 years of bureaucracy. - Very Old Soil - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 3:48 pm: I did not see a listing of special districts. Soil and water conservation districts are local units of government but do not tax and board members are volunteers. Staff are paid trough a combination of state fund, county (in some cases) and sales of fish, trees and contracted services to other units of government. Drainage district board members are, to my knowledge, not paid. they do occassionally levy taxes for maintenance of drainage ditches on those who benefit. Also, time and mileage costs for a townshio road commissioner must certainly be lower than driving out from the county seat to repair a pothole. Not opposed to consolidation of many services of government. Just saying they are not all the same. - amalia - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 3:48 pm: Illinois invented “everybody gets a trophy,” before that derisive term was in use. the difference is here, it seems that too many “get an elected office.” I believe this is not simply a matter of too many in laws in need of a job, but of an actual huge ego mentality that afflicts far too many in the state, in office and aspiring to office. while I am a huge supporter of public service, and I know many wonderful elected, appointed and civil public servants, I know that too high a percentage of the electeds have huge egos and it makes life in government miserable. also, the more confusing government is to a rookie, the easier it is to hid things. streamline, elect fewer officials. - Very Old Soil - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 3:53 pm: I would add that there are 97 SWCDs and pt=robably hundreds of drainage districts in Illinois. - girlawyer - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 4:25 pm: In Michigan you are either in an incorporated city/town/village OR you are in a township which handles those municipal type duties. You are never in both a municipality AND a township. That always made sense to me. - Judgment Day - Friday, Sep 7, 12 @ 4:39 pm: “In Michigan you are either in an incorporated city/town/village OR you are in a township which handles those municipal type duties. You are never in both a municipality AND a township. That always made sense to me.” Ok, now there’s a problem here - you are using a foreign concept here in IL called “LOGIC”. Here’s what we do in IL: 1) A property is located in both the township and the municipality. So local property taxes are levied on both. 2) IF the township exists and IF the township levies taxes for what is called “Road & Bridge” purposes, all of that money is collected by the County Treasurer, but the amount is split 50-50 between the municipality and the township road district. It’s an accounting nightmare. 3) Btw, this only happens for taxes levied for road & bridge purposes. Other township road taxes go 100% to the township road district (just to make it easier). 4) Then, just to add to the ‘clarity’ of the situation, if the same municipality levies taxes for what is called Street & Bridge purposes, the amount of taxes levied for that purpose has to be reduced by the amount of the 50-50 split from the different townships (a municipality can be located in multiple township road districts). See, we keep it simple here in IL…. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.