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*** UPDATED x4 - Homer will take a look - AUDIO: Quinn wants Inspector General to investigate *** Quinn calls for probe of floor vote
Friday, Oct 28, 2011 - Posted by Rich Miller [Bumped to the top for exposure.] *** UPDATE 1 *** I asked the governor’s press office last night which police agency they’d like to see investigate the House vote on the ComEd/Ameren “trailer bill.” I was told I’d hear back. Hasn’t happened. But they did respond to Mary Ann Ahern, who Tweets…
FYI, I asked this afternoon how many times Quinn has had the autopen sign legislation into law for him. I’ll let you know what they say. * So, let’s see. He’s been fighting with Senate President Cullerton since Day One. He’s been arguing with Mayor Emanuel for months. And now he picks a fight with the biggest of the big dogs. Yep. This will end well. Sure worked for Rod. *** UPDATE 2 *** Quinn was asked by a reporter today if he had asked the Speaker to investigate this week’s vote. “It doesn’t exactly work that way,” Quinn said, adding that the inspector general should investigate his allegation. “Any wrongdoing there, any monkey business” should be looked at. When asked if he had contacted the IG about this, Quinn said the IG, by law, was supposed to investigate anything he’s heard that could be a problem. Listen… *** UPDATE 3 *** I asked Speaker Madigan’s spokesman for a response to the governor’s belief that Legislative Inspector General Tom Homer should look into this…
And that was it. Nothing else for the record. *** UPDATE 4 *** Sun-Times…
* I told subscribers yesterday about Democratic members being off the House floor for a budget briefing during the “Smart Grid trailer bill” vote this week. Gov. Pat Quinn got angry about the development and is now using it as an excuse to lay blame for one of his many defeats this week, even though the trailer bill passed with 91 votes, way more than was needed. Seven or so members who were off the floor were voted as “Yes” during the roll call even though they were opposed to the bill. After they returned to the floor, they asked that their votes be recorded as “No,” but they did not publicly complain. * The Sun-Times asked Quinn about the development, and he demanded an investigation…
* It’s not illegal for a House member to vote another member’s switch, no matter what the governor says. It is, however, a violation of House rules…
It is illegal for a staffer to vote a member’s switch if it’s done with “malicious intent”…
* By law, any investigation has to be approved by an overwhelming House majority…
* Voting switch controversies are not new…
* But, of course, we now have a catchy new slogan…
* It was wrong to do the trailer bill roll call with so many members off the floor at a budget briefing. But, make no mistake, this bill would’ve passed no matter what. The governor is likely attempting to justify a veto of the trailer bill. But if he does that, then all the reforms in that bill could die if the House decides not to override the veto. Not to mention that he’s picking a fight he can only lose. Even if he manages to gin up a lot of press coverage and even if there is a vote and even if there is an investigation, payback will be absolutely brutal.
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- CircularFiringSquad - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:20 am:
Clearly the Blagoofian gene implanted earler is becoming more dominant.
We predict next he will demand free rides and free stock trades for CME in exchange for the CME incentives.
- sad - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:29 am:
How about steve brown (madigan’s spokesman) laughing about the situation in his sun times quote? Yeah, real funny. Stay classy buddy! I guess rate hikes can be afforded by those who get rich riding madigan’s coat tails. And lord knows there are a bunch of people getting rich with that guy’s help. Better be careful Mikey. Your team seems to be getting dangerously out of touch, pretty soon you will probably be surrounding yourself with female bodyguards and wearing military uniforms all the time.
- Gates - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:29 am:
Too early to start talking recall on Quinn?
- Plutocrat03 - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:31 am:
“but they did not publicly complain”
What the…… I certainly would have had a fit if my vote would have been recorded contrary to my position. Perhaps the no vote was not as firm as it could gave been.
- Siriusly - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:32 am:
Agree with CFS. This is not going to end well. Not a good idea Governor.
Whoever said Lavin can reign in Quinn from his worst instincts was dead wrong.
- CircularFiringSquad - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:35 am:
Brown was probably chuckling because reliable sources say the reporter could not ask the question or quote the governor’s rant with a straight face
- gathersno - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:35 am:
When I started lobbying many years ago, legislators had car radio antennas at their desk and would openly use them to vote for all the empty seats around them that could be reached.
- Fed up - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:41 am:
Well it does go to show that in the house the members don’t have to be there to vote the way Madigan wants. Yeah the bill would pass anyway but this is another example of what a joke the state of Illinois has become.
- Huh? - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:42 am:
“… Perhaps the no vote was not as firm as it could gave been.”
Since when is a politician’s “no” or even a “yes” vote anything other than puffery?
- Will - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:42 am:
Aren’t Quinn’s quotes dancing around the real issue here? It’s not about a member having someone else vote for them, which is routine.
There are two big questions.
1) Did someone, or several people, cast those “yes” votes knowing it was against the wishes of those legislators?
2) Were legislators called into the meeting for the purpose of keeping them away from the vote?
If the answer to both of those questions is yes then it’s a very serious subversion of representative government. Several charges, including conspiracy charges, should be brought against those who organized this alleged fraud.
- sue - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:44 am:
in addition to being totally ineffective, now Quinn is also a cry baby- Governor Rahm we are waiting for some leadership
- I'm Just Saying - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:46 am:
Ummmmmmmmmmmm Sad, comparing Madigan to Quadaffy is just Sad, it’s pretty close to Godwin’s law actually……
Grow up……..
- the game - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:50 am:
Oh my. Is the Gov. going to stand by the washrooms on the floor from now on? Or-maybe 1 male staffer and 1 female staffer from the Gov.’s office can stand inside the washrooms with one of the attendance lists.
That way, when a vote is taking place, they can come running out to whomever the Gov’s floor leader is in the House (does he even have one?) and that member can complain.
As one of my high school teachers used to say when we did something stupid or no one had the answer- God help us!
- Rich Miller - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:54 am:
===whomever the Gov’s floor leader is in the House (does he even have one?) ===
LOL. No.
- the game - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:55 am:
Haven’t been down there in quite a while, Rich-but that’s what I suspected!
- wordslinger - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:57 am:
Quinn’s the canary in the coal mine. He might not be the best at what he does, but at least he’s honked, as am I.
I can’t recall a week like this one, where the elected representatives of both parties devoted themselves openly, baldly and slavishly to the interests of the very few, while contemptuously ignoring the needs of the many.
What are our top priorities here in Illinois? Getting ComEd guaranteed rate increases, guaranteed 10% annual profits and from under the thumb of the ICC. Giving job-killer incentives and tax breaks to the exchanges.
What’s up next? Let’s hose the working-stiff schmucks on their pensions, based on some ludicrous fiction that because pension funds do not have assets to cover 100% of liability immediately, they’re somehow bankrupt. Even though they’ve never had assets to cover 100% of liability immediately, nor should they, and they’ve never missed one pension payment, ever.
And, if we have time, we can bend over for Sears, too. Let’s talk about it at Bacardi at the Park. Lunch is one Big Jim (and you, by the way).
We all took a hit back in January with the income tax increase. Some of us thought it was our civic duty to be big boys and girls and do our bit to right the ship, and be part of a solution to the ongoing enterprise of our community.
Now that we’ve given, the wise guys are back at the trough, gobbling up everything they can, and in a hurry.
I try to be generally optimistic and ascribe good intentions to those I disagree with, but I’m at a loss this week.
The one thing I know for sure is that the leadership of the Democratic Party in this state is lost. They’ve forgotten who the hell they should be and where they came from. They’re Gibsons and Gene and Georgettis hustlers, who wouldn’t know a lunch wagon if it ran them over.
Just because the GOP in this state is incompetent doesn’t mean the Democrats have to take their place.
- Dirty Red - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 9:58 am:
The whole thing reminds me of the Tim Johnson v. Mike Kelleher election in 2000 when Kelleher ran consistent attack ads against Johnson for rigging his button with a paper clip.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 10:11 am:
Word, while you make some good points, you’re forgetting your history. The Dem leaders in this state have been corporatists forever. Remember that AT&T bill which was passed and signed in 3 days and then tossed out by the courts? I think I wrote back then that Illinois looked like a banana republic. Then again, maybe it wasn’t that bill, but if not, that would prove my point even more.
At least the ComEd bill requires several billion dollars in badly needed upgrades, with little thanks to the ICC for letting them slide for so long. The ICC, by the way, is not exactly composed of saints. They’ve been bending over for utilities for decades. Remember the disastrous power auction? The commission is better now, but that won’t last if history is any guide.
In comparison to the past, the ComEd bill was a vast improvement. Yes, the bar is low, but it’s something.
- foster brooks - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 10:15 am:
Can the il legislature get any slimier?
- Ron Burgundy - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 10:26 am:
Quinn’s squawking about this issue is reminiscent of the Duke Brothers in the movie Trading Places.
I demand an investigation! Turn those machines back on! Turn those machines back on!
- Shore - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 10:30 am:
when do we hear the arne duncan for governor 2014 campaign rumors start?
- Concur - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 10:30 am:
Yeah the bill would pass anyway but this is another example of what a joke the state of Illinois has become.
Agree
- Anonymous - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 10:45 am:
I spoke with several of the members right after this happened and they were livid. It may have passed anyway, but this was seen by many as a deliberate attempt to get them off the floor. And while 7 members changed their vote, 18 were off the floor and had their switches pushed (mostly in ways different from their intent).
- Rich Miller - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 10:47 am:
Anonymous, I spoke to some of them too. Some were upset, some not.
- Lincoln's Penny - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 10:52 am:
“with little thanks to the ICC for letting them slide for so long. The ICC, by the way, is not exactly composed of saints. They’ve been bending over for utilities for decades.”
So they’ve been bending over for the utilities AND not giving them what they want? Which is it?
Also Rich, 99.8% of ComEd’s capital requests were granted by the ICC in the last rate case.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 10:57 am:
===AND not giving them what they want? Which is it?===
You missed my point, which was they did not push the companies hard enough to upgrade. Granting their requests the last time out is not pushing them to do more. And, also, I did note that this ICC is much better than past ICCs.
- AFSCME Steward - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 11:11 am:
Illinois is looking more and more like a Marx Brothers movie every day. Here are the principle players:
Pat Quinn…. Groucho (”…whatever it is I’m against it. Even when you change or condense it I’m against it…”)
Tom Cross…. Chico (Babbler of nonsense)
Mike Madigan… Harpo (never says anything, but regularly pulls questionably obtained items from various area of his person. “He’s honest, but you’ve got to watch him”)
Hail Hail Illidonia land of the slick and connected
- Lincoln's Penny - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 11:13 am:
Rich, my point is that they get what capital investments they make. This whole argument that they dont get their capital investments back is simply a red herring. The ICC told us they have received 98%+ back in the last 3 rate cases. IF they aren’t choosing the right investments that’s their fault. The ICC, AG, and others have been telling them to make certain investments but at the end of the day its the utility leadership who decides how they spend their money.
- just sayin' - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 11:19 am:
Circular squad is right!! Quinn has become Blago, except he is in worse shape. Blago at least had Emil Jones and the Senate D’s on his side. PQ is out there ALL ALONE!!!!
- Dave Dahl - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 11:22 am:
Dirty Red - I recall the Johnson incident from when he was in the House, probably the early 80’s.
I was living in Champaign at the time and either the News-Gazette or DI had a photo of the clipped vote button in an editorial or column about the area’s newest lawmaker, “Rep. Paper Clip.”
- b-town - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 11:33 am:
“quadaffy” who is that?? a cross between Randy Quade and Daffy Duck? Gaddafi is the name i believe you were trying to spell. i believe sad was trying to make a point about autocracy. you might want to look that word up.
- just sayin' - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 11:33 am:
I thought the scam about lawmakers voting for each other was ended years ago after a big embarrassing expose’.
If Quinn’s the bad guy for saying it’s absurd that lawmakers are casting multiple votes on bills, then I don’t know what to say. What planet is this?
Let’s just send the 4 Tops to Springpatch and save all the money now going to the care and feeding of the excess baggage. Actually that’s probably not a bad idea and would be more honest in many ways.
- walkinfool - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 11:33 am:
Quinn looks like a rookie with this complaint.
By the time a bill of this magnitude is called, most members have already decided and declared their intentions to staff or members who have been polling them individually. Some might change their votes for the record, after the roll call, for political purposes once they know the bill will pass any way. This bill would have passed any way.
Perhaps some members who were actually opposed were sucked off the floor to prevent them from speaking on the record in opposition, and making news.
More likely, there’s really nothing to see here folks.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 11:40 am:
===If Quinn’s the bad guy for saying it’s absurd===
When did he say that? Look at what he actually said. He’s attempting to pass this off as a crime against the people.
- Calhoun Native - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 11:42 am:
Yep, we don’t need a Tea Party working for smaller government or Republicans promoting corporate interests over the public good in Illinois. The Democrats are taking care of it for them.
- mouthy - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 12:08 pm:
Back before they used radio antennas to hit the voting buttons they used the metal connectors, screwed together into long drooping poles, to vote their absent representative cohorts. That was before they had keys that could lock and unlock voting switches.
- Irish - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 12:35 pm:
Just to throw in another twist. Maybe some of the members who were off the floor had a different agenda. Maybe they were told how to vote and knew it was not going to be popular with their constituents so they “allowed” their vote to be made by unknown “others”. Then when they are called on it back home they can say, look I was in such and such a meeting that was called at the same time as the vote. I can prove I wasn’t there. That was not my vote. Maybe that was the purpose of the off the floor meeting. To give members an out. Would MJM go to such lengths to cover for reluctant members to get their votes where he wanted them?…….
- Shock & Awwwww(e) - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 2:06 pm:
Reading this really, really bothers me.
I understand the practical aspects of this being a no-win situation for Quinn, as well as the fact the bill would have passed regardless. I am, however, glad Quinn said something.
I’m not trying to feign outrage or calling for anyone’s head on a pike, but remain genuinely stunned anyone of either party would “sneak” votes in on their colleagues’ machine without their knowledge and against their wishes. Especially when it’s likely a seat-mate of the same party “stealing” their vote.
The notion that up to 15% (18 votes of 118 House members) may have been ghost-cast on any bill contrary to legislators wishes strikes me as a subversion of the public trust and basic expectations of public servants.
I simply do not understand how this is acceptable behavior.
- Shock & Awwwww(e) - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 2:08 pm:
On the brighter side, this may give birth to an entirely new defense of unpopular votes on the campaign trail:
“I didn’t really vote for it.” heehee
- Rich Miller - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 2:13 pm:
===The notion that up to 15% (18 votes of 118 House members) may have been ghost-cast on any bill contrary to legislators wishes===
It wasn’t 18. Seven of those HDems voted against the override later in the day.
- Cindy Lou - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 2:44 pm:
To me I guess it does not really matter if it was this bill or the most trival of all bills. When the vote goes down it should be made by the actual person who’s button it is. If one can’t be in the room at time for vote, tough, than go down as not voting.
When people elect their reps from their areas, maybe I’m being naive, but I think the people expect the vote to be made by who they elected to fill the chair. Not the guy in the next seat. Not somebody who the empty seat gave permission to vote for him/her, but made by the actual seat holder.
If just anybody can push the button for you, why bother coming down/up for the day anyway…hey, just phone it in.
- Pot calling kettle - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 3:11 pm:
I think a lot of the commenters need to spend a few hours in the gallery. It’s not like the members of the GA are goofing off. They are expected to attend meeting, discuss votes with colleagues, and respond to requests from constituents and lobbyists out in the hall. Their neighbors know how they intend to vote on most bills and the push each others buttons all the time; often when the person they are voting for is a few steps away. They do it because it is efficient.
If a vote is close and any member is concerned that everyone vote their switch, they ask for verification. Everyone runs to the floor and stands at their desk for the vote. That no one asked for verification on this vote tells the real story to anyone who pays attention. And, if the Gov. is truly concerned about this, he needs a floor leader who can request verification on every vote.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 3:12 pm:
===And, if the Gov. is truly concerned about this, he needs a floor leader who can request verification on every vote. ===
Yeah, but who’d do it?
- Pot calling kettle - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 3:12 pm:
Also, anyone on the “winning” side can file a motion to reconsider. If there is actually a majority against, they can overturn the vote.
- I'm Just Saying - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 3:14 pm:
Lisa Hernandez is a former staffer…….
- Pot calling kettle - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 3:14 pm:
==Yeah, but who’d do it?==
Someone whose spouse or kid or cousin wants an appointment, perhaps…
- Robert - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 3:16 pm:
==There are two big questions.
1) Did someone, or several people, cast those “yes” votes knowing it was against the wishes of those legislators?
2) Were legislators called into the meeting for the purpose of keeping them away from the vote?===
Question #1 seems to me to be the key issue - is any legislator or Quinn alleging this?
- amalia - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 3:21 pm:
pushing the button for someone is not the way to do things.
quinn might figure he’s not long for the office, so he’s doing what he would do if he were out there walking around with the old briefcase and driving his own car…..call it like he sees it and go after it.
i’m not naive enough to think that the Dems are above being a tool of corporations. but the deal is wrong. after all, Lisa Madigan told us so in an email. and any way to go after it, well, sometimes you just gotta keep fighting. wonder what Lisa thinks of buttonfest? cause it’s still in the fest stage, may never move to gate stage.
- Jaded - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 3:23 pm:
When I was a page I voted multiple switches hundreds of times. They marked the calendar, and when it wasn’t marked I was told to vote with the leader. This was years ago, but there are several members of the GA who haven’t voted their own switch consistently in decades.
Not only can you stand up and change your vote, if you or someone else votes your switch the wrong way, you can also file a motion to reconsider the vote (if one has not already been filed and tabled) and force a new roll call. Any of these members who were “livid” could have done that but didn’t. This just another example of governor clueless trying to pass the buck for being ineffective.
Get over it Governor, you got rolled. It happens to us all…it just happens to you more than most.
- tr - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 3:36 pm:
I’m confused. If it takes a key to vote, as Mouthy says, then the reps who left the floor had to leave their keys at the desk switched on.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 3:42 pm:
Correct, tr.
- Soccermom - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 3:45 pm:
Irish — o wondered about that too
- Cardozo - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 3:46 pm:
Thank you Governor for attacking Democratic members in a redistricting year shortly after many of them helped pass your tax increase at the beginning of the year. The most frustrating thing is that this action won’t change the outcome of the debate at all but it could make service in the legislature less civil. Everyone needs to take a deep breath here and, hopefully, move on to the real issues of the day that the majority party needs to address.
- Pot calling kettle - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 3:48 pm:
When the session starts, everyone present turns on their key and votes present. After that, the members work. They might walk to someone else’s desk to discuss a bill, go to the door to talk to someone who sent in a card, go to the bathroom, get a drink or a sandwich, the list is endless. There are going to be votes when they are not at their desk. If the chair held every vote until every member was at his/her desk, the session would not be very productive.
As Jaded noted above, the votes reflect the legislator’s intent (usually) and are changed when they don’t.
- Fred - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 3:52 pm:
Think that’ll be the end of staffer’s voting or members voting others’ switches? It’s almost as if by default every bill will be verified. It’ll be easier to kill bills on the floor.
- Cassiopeia - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 4:00 pm:
The Governor needs to grow up and quit whining all the time because he doesn’t get his way, or the GA just needs to recall him and start over with an adult in the mansion.
- Madison County Watcher - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 4:04 pm:
In the end, Quinn looks like a loser when making this request. He’s only self-servingly bringing it up because he lost the vote.
If one of the members asked for an investigation, I would put more credence to the request. But, if the mushrooms are complicit with their dark cave, really, is it anyone else’s business? Sure, the public might be outraged, but they should only be outraged with their individual legislator that the rules they vote for and legislative leaders they elect allow this to happen.
And, I’m not editorializing that this is a scandal or not or outrage or not. I’m just saying that it isn’t Quinn’s business. It’s a different branch of government.
Rich: Great comparison the bill-signing pen. I hope to hear an answer on that question before the end of this story.
- OneMan - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 4:08 pm:
If he pushes this, it is going to blow up in his face…
Then again that is Pat Quinn…
- Lincoln's Penny - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 4:15 pm:
“Thank you Governor for attacking Democratic members in a redistricting year shortly after many of them helped pass your tax increase at the beginning of the year.”
Who was it who signed that gem of a map?
- Just Me - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 4:26 pm:
As a citizen I hate this fight because it increases the hatred between the two branches of government. As an observer of State House going-ons, I love it. As someone who is tired of Quinn, Madigan, and Cullerton all worried about their precious futures, I love it even more.
By the way, excellent point with the auto-pen, although it isn’t an exact comparison because Quinn has to give instruction that it be used, but is still a worthy addition to this debate. Good job, Mr. Miller!
- too obvious - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 4:38 pm:
People voting multiple times…what is this Pat Brady’s presidential straw poll? hee hee
Bet we won’t hear state gop screaching about this one.
- davis - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 4:39 pm:
Maybe this perceived outrage will move the Governor to call for a ballot initiative for the return of three house members per senate district and the return of cumulative voting? Power to the people!
- sue - Friday, Oct 28, 11 @ 4:49 pm:
Why hasn’t the IG investigated Quinn’s promise of no layoffs apparently in exchange for an endorsement and campaign contributions- Lets go Tit-for-Tat