* Some of the state government haters may be surprised by this, but most of us already know that Illinois has long had one of the lowest per capita workforces in the nation. And now, we’re the lowest, excluding schools and higher ed…
Alaska had the most with 34.9, while Illinois had the fewest with 4.1 after cutting more than 4,000 workers from the state payroll since 2007. The AP figures exclude K-12 teachers and employees in higher education systems.
Indiana, Ohio and Michigan were the only other states with five or fewer state employees per 1,000 residents. Each has seen steep reductions in the number of state workers since 2007 because of budget pressures. […]
In Texas, the number of state government employees rose by more than 7,300 between 2007 and 2011. But Mark Miner, a spokesman for Republican Gov. Rick Perry, stressed that the state’s rising population meant the number of state workers dropped from 6.07 to 6.02 as measured per capita. Perry is seeking the GOP presidential nomination. […]
…Wisconsin ranks 41st in the country with 6.2 state employees per 1,000 people…
* AFSCME Council 31 executive director Henry Bayer has already issued a response…
“After all the extreme rhetoric from politicians and pundits attacking public employees, here is the reality: Illinois has the nation’s fewest state employees per resident. It’s been true for years. Yet in recent months politicians of both parties have pushed for thousands of layoffs, pension cuts and limits on collective bargaining, while the governor claims he can’t afford a 2 percent pay increase for frontline workers.
“The men and women who do the real work of state government deserve thanks, not blame. Despite skeleton staffs, unmanageable caseloads and dangerous overcrowding, they care for the elderly and disabled, protect children from abuse, help struggling families and keep prisons safe.
“The state’s fiscal problems are caused by backward budget priorities and an unfair tax structure that offers special treatment for big corporations and rich individuals.”
* Meanwhile, the Illinois Policy Institute took a look at some new IRS data…
Recent data from the Internal Revenue Service shows that, in 2009, Illinois netted a loss of people to 43 states, including each of its neighbors – Wisconsin, Indiana, Missouri, Kentucky and Iowa. Over the course of the entire year, the state saw a net of 40,000 people leave Illinois for another state.
The data reflects a continuation of a trend of out-migration from Illinois that has lasted more than a decade. Between 1995 and 2009, the state lost on a net basis more than 806,000 people to out-migration.
When people leave, they take their income and their talent with them. In 2009 alone, Illinois lost residents who took with them a net of $1.5 billion in taxable income. From 1995 to 2009, Illinois lost out on a net of $26 billion in taxable income to out-migration.
You can see the raw IRS data here.
Keep in mind this data was compiled well before the tax hike. Also, the net out-migration actually seems to be slowing. The average over 15 years is just under 54,000, so 40,000 net outmigration is less. That could be because of the recession and the fact that lots of people can’t sell their houses, however.
- John Bambenek - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 10:11 am:
Do these statistics take into account the amount of grant-making we do compared to other states? Is there such a study?
A more comprehensive study comparing grant-making, units of local government, et al, to come up with an apples-to-apples comparison of government AND government-sponsored services would be very interesting.
- Foxfire - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 10:19 am:
Interesting findings regarding the number of state employees. Illinois also has almost 7,000 units of local government. It would be interesting to know the ratio of state AND local government employees per capita.
- CircularFiringSquad - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 10:27 am:
Speaking of fun with numbers…every remembers the Simpson Study which claims there have been 1,500 public corruption convictions over the last 40 years. While that is not exactly what the data shows, a new column in IL issues notes our prison population is over 50K. When that number is spread across the general population you find about .4% of the general population are convicts. The Simpson study (which includes elected officials, govt workers and vendors at the state city county and suburbs records) works out to about .15%.
This means the general population is MORE corrupt that the pols.
BTW is there some reason this blog still quotes IL Policy Institute slop?
- Michelle Flaherty - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 10:28 am:
So local control is a bad thing? You’d prefer more state government employees and fewer local government employees?
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 10:32 am:
The net outflow to neighboring states is surprising and counter-intuitive. I wonder if it’s a more prevalent in a particular area of the state.
The reason I say that is it seems half the people you meet and work with in the Chicago area are originally from a neighboring state. The North Side of Chicago is crawling with young workers originally from another state, and half the bars up there are an “Official Home” of some out-of-state college or professional team.
- Left Out - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 10:35 am:
The important thing to me is the total number of government workers in Illinois. Keep in mind that Illinois has many government units all of which employ various numbers of workers. According to the US Census Bureau, in 2007 (the last data I could find) Illinois had 6994 units of government including 1299 municipal, 1432 townships, 912 school districts, and 3249 special ’single function’ districts.
I think one needs to ask how the various government functions are divided between the state and other bodies in the each of the states. Then the compairson of the number of people on the state payroll between the 50 states should be made.
- Way Way Down Here - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 10:43 am:
==I wonder if it’s a more prevalent in a particular area of the state.==
Speaking for our southern border areas, we have lost many of the few manufacturing jobs we had in the last few years to plant closings. People are leaving for Kentucky and Missouri (think Paducah & Cape)to find work and remain close to family.
- the Patriot - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 10:47 am:
1. In recent years we have shifted from state employees to no contractors. Generally a good idea but considering we are the most corrupt state in the Union, it has proven to be redistribution wealth from taxpayers to those willing to play ball with the Governors and the Speaker.
2. Emploee #’s just mean we don’t hire a lot of people. What is the cost of state govenment per citizen? I suspect we are also at the top of the list. It is no secret Rod was firing people and replacing them with hirer paid supervisors. He and Quinn have reduced the number of people working, but increased budget and I suspect the payroll.
- Plutocrat03 - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 10:54 am:
Anyone calculate the number of public servants per capita including those who work for the thousands of taxing bodies who are not state employees?
That would be a more realistic figure.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 10:56 am:
===What is the cost of state govenment per citizen? I suspect we are also at the top of the list.===
Nope. We’re right around the national average on that one.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 10:57 am:
Plutocrat03, if they’re not state employees, they’re not state employees.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 10:59 am:
As several other posters have said, state workers only is a meaningless statistic. Citizens care very little which body of government employees work for.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:03 am:
“Plutocrat03, if they’re not state employees, they’re not state employees.”
This is simply not true, Rich. The public pays for public employees (and for public contractors including outsourced staff). The meaningful measure is the aggregate cost and amount of service return for all bodies of government. To look at one in isolation is misleading at best, especially in states like IL and PA with many special districts and layers of local government.
- Shemp - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:04 am:
As Left Out points out, I would be curious to know the total number of employees given the number of layers of government that we have.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:05 am:
Well, Shemp and Anon, you’ll have to do your own study then.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:06 am:
===To look at one in isolation is misleading at best===
Balderdash.
Local gvt employees are paid almost entirely with local revenues. The state doesn’t impose a property tax, locals do.
- Shemp - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:09 am:
Is there a comparison of Illinois public wages and benefits per employee versus neighboring states?
- TCB - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:14 am:
=Balderdash.
Local gvt employees are paid almost entirely with local revenues. The state doesn’t impose a property tax, locals do=
Exactly. The only exceptions I can think of where the state pays the salaries (or a portion) of locally elected/appointed/etc. officials is the ROEs paid thru the State Board of Ed & various other stipends which are paid thru the Dept of Revenue. I’d imagine there are a few more, but they probably don’t amount to much of anything.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:19 am:
Shemp, this ain’t Google. You can’t just ask any question that pops into your mind and expect an answer. Try the Interwebtube thingy on your own, man.
- Fight Fair - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:20 am:
=== If they’re not state employees, they’re not state employees. ===
Rich, I suspect Firefox, Pluto and others are indirectly making a larger point: In Illinois, our nation-leading number of local govts — especially in Cook and the collar counties — handle duties that in most of the U.S. are //state// responsibilities. Cook County’s employee-dense three hospitals, the county and city health clinic systems, the regional school supts, the enormous criminal justice infrastructure of courts and jails that handle people post-trial and not just pre-trial — the list goes on. Maybe the local control is good, but it’s a fact that over two centuries Illinois has dumped a lot of duties that other states provide by staffing with state workers. If Illinois is left with fewer state workers, that doesn’t mean taxpayers are supporting fewer public workers to receive services comparable to those in other states.
- Left Out - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:21 am:
“Local gvt employees are paid almost entirely with local revenues.”
Very true but my pants have three pockets. One marked ‘federal’, one marked ’state’ and one marked ‘local’. Every level of government take something from one of the pockets. In the end I am were all government gets its money. The total take from all three of my pants pockets is what I look at in the end.
- Plutocrat03 - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:21 am:
Its all part of a shell game. Break up the bureaucracy, make the taxes and fees local, pretend you have a lean operation.
It is a fantasy to believe there are fewer people on the public’s payroll in Illinois than in any other state. The earlier poster said it well. The public does not care what governmental body is paying the salary for the services provided.
- JP - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:22 am:
The State pays a subsidy for local education as well. It is pretty significant in many school districts.
JBP
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:28 am:
===The total take from all three of my pants pockets is what I look at in the end. ===
That’s all well and good, but it’s not what this particular study looked at.
Try to tone down the Illinois hate a bit, please.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:33 am:
Rich, I wonder if Illinois’ average cost of state government would be considered low if debt were included in the calculation? Does Illinois’ indebtedness lower the calculation? I appreciate that such a calculation would apply to other heavilly indebted states like California, but am curious to see how that would reshuffle the rankings.
- GoldCoastConservative - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:34 am:
Whoops. That last “Anonymous” post was from me.
- Plutocrat03 - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:38 am:
The bottom line is that analysis is worthless as a tool for comparison including Illinois. The State simply has a different model of governance.
- TCB - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:43 am:
=Its all part of a shell game. Break up the bureaucracy, make the taxes and fees local, pretend you have a lean operation.
It is a fantasy to believe there are fewer people on the public’s payroll in Illinois than in any other state. The earlier poster said it well. The public does not care what governmental body is paying the salary for the services provided.=
I think the point is that in the last 8 years the size of Illinois’ state workforce has drastically decreased (I believe by about 20-25%). During that time the state hasn’t shifted, atleast to my knowledge, any major new duties off on other units of government. By default, one would assume that the state government has become more efficient with the dollars it has been collecting.
Kind of funny (or maybe ironic?) how under republican Governors that Illinois’ headcount ballooned to the level it did & in just 2 terms of democratic leadership the headcount decreased by 1/5th.
- D.P. Gumby - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:45 am:
That’s right Pluto3…don’t let facts get in the way of a political position.
- Reality Check - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 11:56 am:
A flood of anti-government commenters babbling “Yes, but” excuses when confronted with actual facts that put the lie to their simplistic, knee-jerk ideology. Pretty much says it all.
- Anders Lindall - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 12:08 pm:
I have studied state and local government employment standards as well. Illinois ranked well behind even the national average (not the leader, the average) when measured this way too.
But it’s not germane. Public employees at the state and local levels do different work. To cite just one example, whether there are enough staff to keep a given prison safe and contain wasteful overtime costs (hint: there aren’t) has nothing to do with how many public works or sanitation employees a nearby town employs.
- reformer - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 12:22 pm:
The fewest state workers in the nation reveals that a bloated state bureaucracy is not to blame for our state budget problems.
The bloat in government comes at the local level, where Illinois ranks first in units of local government. Despite their “less government” rhetoric, Republicans tend to be protective of those local units, especially townships.
- Stones - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 12:51 pm:
State employees have taken a beating that last few years in conjunction with the tanking of the US economy. IMHO, this has more to do with the fact that state employees have guaranteed pensions whereas many benefits of this type have been eliminated in the private sector.
It just reminds me of my first job with the State almost 30 years ago. Most of my contemporaries took better paying jobs in the private sector while my position with the state compensated me modestly at best. Now that the tables have turned, those are the people who love to take cheap shots at those of us fortuate to be employed with the State of Illinois.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 1:35 pm:
NONE of you blatherers know what you’re talking about.
The COMBINED state and local tax burden for Illinois is 10.0%. The highest in the nation is New Jersey, at 12.2%.
Oh yeah, and the national average is 9.8%.
Statistically speaking, that makes 2% higher than the mean…Im no economist, but that doesnt sound significant enough for us to even be discussing.
Lazy, unsubstantiated arguments belong on the sjr website, not capfax.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 1:36 pm:
===Lazy, unsubstantiated arguments belong on the sjr website===
Or the Tribune editorial page.
Just sayin…
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 1:50 pm:
Tru dat, Rich!
Public policy can only benefit from a full and vigorous debate…unless some folks continue to ignore facts, make up facts, or continue to insist that ideology, doctrine, or talking points trump reality.
- Quinn T. Sential - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 2:23 pm:
All kinds of commentary about the people left behind to pay the cost of state government, regardless of the citizen to employee ratio,but very little about the shrinking number of citizens that help to fund the number of government positions.
I suspect the numbers they are using for out-migration are actually under-counted as well, as they may not accurately reflect the number of students that go away to college and do not return, because their parents have left during the time they were away.
The shrinking population rate while perhaps slowing at the moment, is likely to accelerate again rather than decrease in magnitude at any time in the foreseeable future.
- walkinfool - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 2:48 pm:
After a couple of years of study, the good Tea Party types in my neck of the woods have realized that “waste and bloat” in government in Illinois exists much more at the local than at the state level, and many have begun to switch their focus.
The fact that self-described “fiscal conservative” GOPers control most of the local government bodies, has caused distress for some who cannot easily adjust their political perspectives. Of course, they can always complain about the national government, with even less accurate information.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 3:15 pm:
–…but very little about the shrinking number of citizens that help to fund the number of government positions.–
From 2000 to 2010, the population of the state increased by 411,000.
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/17000.html
- Shock & Awww(e) - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 3:21 pm:
Some data y’all may find useful from the Dept. of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics (as of Nov. 2011):
Total # of Gov. Employees in IL: 842,800
Fed. Gov. Employees in IL: 83,600
State Gov. Employees in IL: 145,800
Local Gov. Employees in IL: 613,400
Unfortunately, I don’t have the time to look up the #’s for every other state at the moment.
Please also note the AP story says they did not factor in education employees. These #’s from the BLS do.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 3:58 pm:
Quinn, you said “shrinking number of citizens.” The number of citizens is not shrinking.
- Quinn T. Sential - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 4:08 pm:
{you said “shrinking number of citizens.” The number of citizens is not shrinking.}
I then offered further clarification with respect to the bigger picture, which has subsequently been deleted (didn’t know you had those magic powers too).
You can keep focusing on the trees if you want, but indoing so you will fail to recognize that there is a great big forest out there.
- Keep rearranging deck chairs folks - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 4:27 pm:
This debate is emblematic of a failed system. The water coming through the bottom of the hull doesn’t care whether you believe it’s wet.
- Peter Snarker - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 4:38 pm:
Shock and Awee - FOR THE WIN!
While everyone else commenting on this post “questions” what the numbers look like including local government employees - Shock and Awee - BAM! - gives you the answer.
But… even if those numbers are low compared with other states it wont quiet the “questioners” - prediction: they will simply shift focus from “yabbut what about local government employees” to “yabbut what about out-sourced contract/temp employees”.
And so it goes.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 5:24 pm:
Re: bloated local government.
Keep in mind that something like 1/2 to 2/3 of the payroll of the city of chicago is police and firefighters.
Not sure if that’s representative of other municipalities, but i want to caution my GOP friends about their demands for cutting local govt.
@wordslinger- there you go with your pesky facts again. Curses. Seriously, I dont know why folks bother making these outrageous claims when the census bureau, labor statistics and tax foundation put just about every number you could possibly want online.
Rich- We need a Golden Horseshoe Award for Factchecker, but i warn you i’m torn between wordslinger and schnorf.
- Southern Peggy - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 5:26 pm:
While an interesting stat, I’d also want to know the average salary of IL state employees. Even if we’re only employing 4.1 people per citizen (or resident?), that doesn’t tell the whole picture. Some one also mentioned that education and local govt employees are excluded from this head count. The larger IL local governments are Dem run–Chicago, Cook Co., St Clair Co. Also, I just read a study of the generous salaries IL teachers enjoy.
http://www.championnews.net/2011/12/20/are-public-school-teachers-overpaid-2/
The WSJ printed an editorial today asking Why live in IL. We southerners are paying taxes that benefit Chicago. We get no net gain from the state. Our legislators are fighting back. Good!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204012004577072790106769870.html?KEYWORDS=why+live+in+illinois
- Southern Peggy - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 5:40 pm:
Addendum: I see Mr. Miller covered the WSJ piece. Yes, more questions could have been asked. Interesting that the Wootens feed off the public trough. It is too bad that non-politically connected citizens were not interviewed. The author does reject the idea of separating Chicago, b/c of its unlikelihood, but yes the GOP needs to fight back and defend taxpayers. The problem of Chicago domination in our fiscal condition remains, however.
- Retired Non-Union Guy - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 6:31 pm:
Shock & Awww(e) @ 3:21 pm
Technically, teachers are not State employees; the teachers’ employers are the various school districts. State employees are those directly employed by the State, which is 64,143 (end FY10) in the SERS system plus non-SERS participants such as the Legislature at 183 (end FY10) and State Judicial system at 967 (end FY10). All figures from the SRS web site.
Total State employees as of FY10 year end are 65,293.
I don’t have a clue how the 145,800 number was derived unless they included the university system … according to SURS, that would add another 72,996 (end FY10).
BTW, that means there are more employees at the universities than all of State government … maybe the problem isn’t state employees … but the universities.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Dec 20, 11 @ 9:08 pm:
I know its almost Christmas, and folks are already trembling with the thought of Capfax withdrawal, but I’ve never seen so many crazy, non-sequitar, drive-by rants in a single capfax thread.
Peggy, the largest employer in Madison County, public or private, is SIUE. I cant tell you off the top of my head how many employees Madison County has, but I’d be willing to bet its far fewer than Lake County or DuPage County, which are run by Republicans.
Not that its actually relevant. The Metro East has over one million residents. Thats triple the population of the City of St Louis itself. I expect any place with that many residents to have a few employees.
- Marty - Wednesday, Dec 21, 11 @ 6:33 am:
Pretty meaningless. Every state is different in the functions and powers it performs itself, versus what it delegates to lower levels. Illinois has the reputation of delegating a lot (tho I cannot say of my own knowledge how true that is compared to other States). Every State is different in what it outsources versus what it does with its own staff. Unless you correct for that across all 50 states and all the major functions within each state, this is just about meaningless.
The best you can do without a great deal of effort is look at total expenditures for all levels of government within each state, with some attention to how accruals are funded. That’s a pretty crude tool, but at leats it treats the States pretty much alike and allows some cautious comparisons.
But this sort of thing is pretty much garbage and people on both sides just use such “reports” for their own talking points.
- Marty - Wednesday, Dec 21, 11 @ 6:35 am:
In fairness to AP, I should note that the gist of their article was the trend, and within a state those year-to-year numbers are meaningful absent a major reorganization. But making comparisons across states is totally not legit.
- AFSCME Steward - Wednesday, Dec 21, 11 @ 7:43 am:
Patriot
You are dead wrong. Other than a isolated few at the top of the chain, manager pay stagnated under Blago. That is why so many of us in management turned to the union, and many more are trying to get unionized. Blago’s abuse of managers is why the state’s workforce is close to 90% unionized today.
“Emploee #’s just mean we don’t hire a lot of people. What is the cost of state govenment per citizen? I suspect we are also at the top of the list. It is no secret Rod was firing people and replacing them with hirer paid supervisors. He and Quinn have reduced the number of people working, but increased budget and I suspect the payroll.”