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Today’s quotable

Wednesday, Nov 26, 2014

* Tribune

Speaking to the nation Monday night, Obama sounded more hopeful than convinced about the lessons to be drawn from Ferguson’s pain.

“We have made enormous progress in race relations over the course of the past several decades. I’ve witnessed that in my own life. And to deny that progress I think is to deny America’s capacity for change,” he said.

“But what is also true is that there are still problems, and communities of color aren’t just making these problems up.”

We believe that too.

As do I.

- Posted by Rich Miller        

  1. - Streator Curmudgeon - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:12 am:

    Martin Luther King Jr. said there can be no racial equality in the United States until there is economic equality.

    Until African-Americans can get jobs of equal pay with white Americans, we will have second class citizens and racial unrest. We may have passed civil rights laws, but the ugly truth is that many African-Americans are shut out by a system that fosters poor education and poverty.

    Most of the time, there is little monetary profit in doing the right thing, and that’s why the United States has failed people of color.

  2. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:17 am:

    “Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

  3. - Tom - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:17 am:

    There is not a racist bone in my kids’ body. Not the same with my generation. Progress is being made!

  4. - Wensicia - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:18 am:

    Zorn also wrote an excellent column on this subject.

  5. - anon - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:20 am:

    A number of people, especially in my generation, grew up in very modest neighborhoods. If you go to school, do fairly well and then either go to college or learn a trade, a person can be successful.

    These days, you you come from a low income household, you likely can attend college for little money. You can take online classes. You can find a mentor(s)

    A person makes choices, and then choices make the person. Opportunities are there, you have to take advantage of them.

    Unfortunately, this administration has sadly let down the minority population.

  6. - Knome Sane - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:21 am:

    =Unfortunately, this administration has sadly let down the minority population=

    How did Governor Quinn sadly let down the minority population?

  7. - A guy... - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:23 am:

    Plenty of work to do. It’s never ending, nor should it be. We’re better, but we’ve got a distance to go.

  8. - The Colossus of Roads - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:23 am:

    Police maintain more of a presence where crimes are committed, plain and simple. If you resist, force is used. When black on black crime occurs, people light candles and march peacefully. When white on black issues occur, people loot and set fires. Why?

  9. - justthefacts - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:24 am:

    Cliven Bundy supporters point guns at & threaten law enforement & federal agents and nobody is arrested.

    A black man in an Ohio Walmart carrying a BB gun is shot dead by cops. No charges.

    A black man in a Lousianna squad car with his hands cuffed behind his back, who was frisked twice, manages to “committ suicide” by shooting himself in the chest, again no arrest/charges.

    The double standard is disgusting.

    Our entire justice system needs reform, just to name a few, drug laws, disparity in treatment for rich and poor, failure to prosecute white collar criminals, very little accountability of police.

  10. - Walter Mitty - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:25 am:

    I am not sure of much and I only can say this… Right now, across this country plenty of videos show senseless acts of violence. Can we also take a moment and be thankful for the police that are woefully underpaid and are being stretched to their limits. Regardless of the recent developments. Some of the abuse and tables being turned, they have a thankless job.

  11. - anon - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:30 am:

    @Knome, hopefully you know I was referring to Obama and not Quinn.

  12. - Gooner - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:30 am:

    Sure Colussus. White people never riot.

    Unless it is something really really really important, like a baseball team winning (or losing).

    They riot over stuff that matters.

  13. - Knome Sane - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:34 am:

    While I don’t want to deviate from the post, I do think this is relevant: In the 1980s, a person could work a part time job during the school year and full-time over summer break to raise enough money to attend college, including room and board. This would not gain you access to every college, mind you, but at least Illinois State, Northern Illinois, SIU, etc. If one didn’t raise enough at that time, at least they came close. How do I know? Well, that’s how I put myself through college.

    Somewhere along the line, during the 1990s, it went off the rails. College tuition skyrocketed and scholarship and merit money dried up. One would have to have a job that paid $40,000 to cover college costs. This affected everyone who didn’t have a source of money to offset these rising costs, i.e. parents, grandparents or a tuition reimbursement program at work (if you were lucky). Simply put, this development dented the middle class, obliterated the poor.

    So, the idea that if you come from a low income household, “you likely can attend college for little money or take online classes” or “find a mentor(s)” is pure fantasy.

    And it’s a cheap way of pointing a finger and saying “I have no role or interest in helping you raise yourself out of poverty, it’s all on you”.

  14. - Gooner - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:34 am:

    Answering further –

    “When white on black issues” — are you serious?

    In the last twenty years, I remember three occasions of serious rioting.

    The first was the Rodney King incident, where police officers beat up somebody.

    The second was the Zimmerman murder, where a guy trying to act like a PO killed an unarmed kid.

    The third was this one, which again involved a PO and an unarmed kid.

    The idea that black people are constantly rioting is, in a word, racism.

    It doesn’t happen.

    The only people who think it does are the racists.

  15. - Knome Sane - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:37 am:

    And yes, anon@ 10:30 a.m., I knew you were talking about President Obama. I was just trying to throw you a line to help keep you from looking ridiculous.

  16. - Del Clinkton - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:39 am:

    @the colossus:

    What about White on White crime? For instance, when dad “finds the secretary who understands” and leaves mom and the kids.

    Or what about when White Naperville-ians who use heroin? Drug use is much higher among Whites than Blacks. Shouldnt they be in Menard Correctional Center like people of color instead of substance abuse treatment?

  17. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:39 am:

    interesting that he like many commentators still dont find any fault with the strong armed robbery that started the whole situation or the lies of so called witnessess who fanned the flames.

  18. - Gooner - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:45 am:

    Good point, Anon 10:39, since the appropriate penalty for an robbery is to shoot the alleged bad guy on sight.

    Thanks for raising those important points!

  19. - anon - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:47 am:

    @knome, I would suggest you call or go by a local community college. Ask them if a person is at or below the poverty level, what is available for aid.Check with larger companies about scholarships, try to help yourself, or seek out help.

    When you get that info, come back here and shoot down your last statement.

  20. - anon - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:49 am:

    Gooner, you must not have heard the details of the 70 hours of testimony by some 60 witnesses. Keep up the false narrative all you want.

  21. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:50 am:

    I agree also.

    The Ferguson situation is heartbreaking for different reasons, because lethal force was used against an unarmed African-American teenager, and because of the rioting.

    Where was the outrage when white supporters had their weapons trained on the Feds who came to collect rancher Cliven Bundy’s overdue grazing fees? What would those who are using race to attack the Ferguson riots have said if the Feds opened fire on the Bundy’s ranch supporters?

    I in no way condone rioting and property destruction, nor do I accept hypocrisy and veiled racism. Some have made the point about those who are outraged over Ferguson may have been silent when whites rioted over sporting events, or over Bundy supporters aiming guns at the Feds.

    I agree with President Obama, who said last night in Chicago that the Ferguson vandals should be prosecuted (if found), and that rioting is not the answer.

    I thought I saw whites also trying to tip over a police car in Ferguson, but I could be wrong.

    I believe in Dr. King’s nonviolence wholeheartedly.

  22. - 4th Street - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:51 am:

    Amen to Streator’s post. I’ll go a bit further. I think the “system” is broken. Money and power is concentrated in the hands of too few people who too often use it to acquire more wealth and power. There’s a reason why political races cost so much money: some group is going to benefit from policies, legislation, and regulation (through exemption), and some group is not. If the latter group is poor, rightfully suspicious of authority, and has no access to power, they will be shut out.

  23. - Jaded - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:52 am:

    Apparently Gooner wasn’t on the grand jury.

  24. - Gooner - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:53 am:


    Unless you were a Grand Jury member, neither did you. But you saw it on Fox, you are an expert, right?

    By the way, nobody is excusing robbery. That’s another creation by the extremists. People are outraged because an unarmed kid is shot? Those people must be in favor of armed robbery!

    Anon, your attitudes show much of the problem that remains.

  25. - Ginhouse Tommy - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 10:57 am:

    During the clinton administration when unemployment fell below 5% the crime rate fell with it. The more poor people are off the street working the better. I know this isn’t much but it is at least some place to start. It’s better than standing still.

  26. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:01 am:

    Ferguson is not Selma. Mr. Brown is not Medgar Evers. For reasons he alone knew, he decided to rob a store, then assault a police officer in his car. For this, he paid with his life. The officer followed the training and procedure that is followed by every police agency. Unfortunately, nobody wants an honest discussion on race relations, only a politically correct one that fits there views.

  27. - The Colossus of Roads - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:05 am:

    Gooner, I am truly offended that you would imply I am a racist. There is nothing further from the truth and I expect an appology. Have a happy Thanksgiving.

  28. - Mason born - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:05 am:

    Well Said Walter Mitty.

    Being in the STL market I’ve been getting the local coverage ont his for quite some time.

    Part of the back story not getting coverage has to do with policies encouraging Police to fine and charge for the slightest infraction, say 2 mph over limit, as a means of raising revenue. This has really disgusted the residents of the community making this the proverbial straw. These policies are due largely to too many Government expenditures without revenue to support them. (Shame they didn’t have a pensions system to borrow from /snark)

    There are definite cases of Police Abuse that need investigated. Chief among them IMHO is the “no Knock warrant.” See the infant who had a flash bang tossed in his crib in Georgia or the former Marine who was killed in NM when Police went to the wrong address. Neither would have happened with a standard warrant.

    That being said this case is serving as an example to some of those inequities. That being said the evidence supports a felonious assault upon the officer.

    It would be nice to see all officer involved shootings go before a Grand Jury with a Special Prosecuter apointed by Gov. I don’t know that it would have changed the outcome here however. Along with that No-Knock warrants should require a sign off by two additional judges prior to execution.

  29. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:08 am:

    Brown committed a robbery. when the police stopped him he attacked an officer, no I dont believe in killing someone for robbery, when you become violent bad things happen. If Mike Brown surrendered peacefully, no one ever hears about this incident. His violent reaction is what caused the problems.

  30. - Sunshine - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:09 am:

    Family unit, education, healthcare, incentive to seek earned reward, personal responsibility, consideration of others, organized and peaceful change.

  31. - anon - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:10 am:

    For about 30 minutes, I listened to the States Attorney speak about the sessions. I listened to others bring up what was known. Clearly I am aware of much more than you Gooner. There wasn’t enough evidence to go to trial. let alone find the police officer guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

    I will give you 3 incidents that happened in the St. Louis area that likely most have not heard about. 2 different occasions, young white pizza delivery guys working for the same company, were robbed and murdered. Robbed of a pizza, and a little money and killed. A young white woman from Illinois returned to St. Louis U. to play in an alumni volleyball game. In broad daylight, she parked her car on the street for a short walk to the gym. She was robbed and murdered. The perpetrators were all young black men.

    I am pretty sure Al Sharpton didn’t say a word.

  32. - Gooner - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:10 am:

    Collossus, you may not want to think you are a racist, but when you post stuff like

    “When white on black issues occur, people loot and set fires. Why?”

    people are going to reach the opposite conclusion.

    I didn’t post that. You did.

  33. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:10 am:

    ===His violent reaction is what caused the problems. ===

    If you think that a single act could touch off such a reaction, you’re insane, or stupid or a racist. Period.

  34. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:15 am:

    Rich, if Brown surrenders no riots. Tough to deal with I know its always gotta be someone elses fault.

  35. - Enviro - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:16 am:

    The best way for the US to reduce crime is to invest in more early childhood education for disadvantaged children. Recent studies show that quality all day pre-school will greatly benefit low-income, minority children. These children will be much less likely to drop out of school or be arrested for a violent crime. They will much more likely to attend college.

    “ It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men.” – Frederick Douglass

  36. - anon - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:20 am:

    Enviro, I wholeheartedly agree. In addition, read to your kids and to your grandkids. Invest 10-15 minutes a day. It will pay huge dividends

  37. - Enviro - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:27 am:

    Anon 11:20 - The sad truth is that disadvantaged children often do not have someone who will read to them. This is why these children are disadvantaged, not just because they come from a low-income area.

  38. - Apocalypse Now - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:29 am:

    Keeping African-Americans perpetually down is a core goal of the liberal movement and the Democratic Party. So Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin have to be victims, not aggressors.

    Still, the truth is that they were victims. Not victims of a mythical white power structure–the concept is laughable as applied to either George Zimmerman or Darren Wilson. And certainly not victims of a racist judicial system. On the contrary, in both cases America’s court system rendered the right verdict under tremendous pressure to bend the truth to political expedience.

    Rather, Martin and Brown were victims of an African-American culture in which the family has been pretty much destroyed, government checks have largely replaced employment, education is disparaged, criminality is respected, and racial animosity is a sign of authenticity. That culture has worked well for the Democratic Party, but it has been an utter disaster for millions of young black men like Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown.

  39. - Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:29 am:

    Enviro, the only problem with your assertion is that project headstart research has shown that early childhood programs resulted in no difference in the kids objective performance by the third grade.

    The primary benficiaries of the expensive programs are those drawing the paychecks in it and the parents who get cheap daycare. It means they can watch TV at night instead of teaching their kids to read and do arithmetic.

    Do you REALLY think that the thug Mark Brown would have developed respect for the law and others by attending a government run pre-school teaching amoral lessons? Of course not. Where he would have learned to do right is from moral religious training and role modeling and dedication from BOTH his parents. No amount of gevernment spending or programs can make up for that.

  40. - Del Clinkton - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:30 am:


    Speaking of politically correct, why didnt the States Attorney indict Officer Wilson?

    Shouldnt be that big of a deal to indict him for Involuntary Manslaughter and go to trial with jury of his peers.

  41. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:31 am:

    ==The perpetrators were all young black men.==

    What is your point?

  42. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:34 am:

    Leave it to Arizona Bob to blast yet another education program and turn it into a “gravy train” for those getting a paycheck. Bob, have you seen any education programs that meet with your approval or is it all a scam to pay people?

    Also Bob, you know there are people out there doing the best they can to raise their kids. Sorry they aren’t doing a good enough job for you and sorry you believe the answer is to wash your hands of the situation. Good plan Bob. Wouldn’t want to invest anything in helping kids out. Because it’s not your problem right?

    You amaze me sometimes with the moronic comments you make.

  43. - Del Clinkton - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:36 am:


    There was no verdict for Officer Wilson. There was never a trial in a court of law.

  44. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:36 am:

    ==government run pre-school teaching amoral lessons==

    And what do you base that brilliant comment on? My kids attended pre-school. I thought it was pretty good. Dope.

  45. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:39 am:

    ==If you think that a single act could touch off such a reaction, you’re insane, or stupid or a racist. Period.==

    Amen. Seems like we have a few people like that commenting today. And they are the reason we still have a long way to go as far as race relations go in this country. Thank goodness my kids don’t see black and white. They see people. Period.

  46. - Fed up - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:44 am:

    Del Clinton

    He wasnt indicted because the case could not meet the probable cause threshold. But you really don’t care about these or the process do you.

  47. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:47 am:

    Again, this isn’t about one guy, or one incident, or one grand jury. Those are side issues and some of you are attempting to obfuscate by throwing in tons of minutiae. If you think weeks-long riots could be touched off by just one incident, you’re just unbelievably stupid. There is a temporary face on this problem right now, but it’s not about that one face, it’s about the problem in general.

  48. - Mason born - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:50 am:


    I’m curious since you brought it up how are you explaining this to your kids?

    My boys are old enough (highschool) to make their own judgements but i do not envy the conversations paretns are having now. I fear some will lose that beutiful color blind perspective they are brought up with.

  49. - Mason born - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:52 am:

    Rich 11:47

    Surely you expected this? If not you give all your commenters way too much credit.

  50. - Enviro - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:53 am:

    Arizona Bob 11:29 - Yes, I really do think that Mark Brown would have developed respect and good values by attending a quality all day pre-school with a well qualified and caring teacher.

  51. - Wensicia - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 11:59 am:

    == If not you give all your commenters way too much credit.==

    It’s sad that he shouldn’t. The kind of stuff posted here is similar to the nonsense Kass spews out. We should be better than this, or at least more realistic.

  52. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:00 pm:


    My kids aren’t old enough to have to discuss this issue. As far as I know they aren’t even aware of it unless it’s been brought up at school. If it has they haven’t asked me about it. Truthfully, I’m not sure what I’d say if they brought it up.

    I’ve had to be very diligent in ensuring that everything I do or say leaves a good impression on my children as far as race, sexual orientation, etc. I’m very aware that my actions and words can influence them. I’ve tried to always ensure that they know that everyone should be given respect regardless. People are different and that is ok. That’s the basic lesson I teach them.

    I grew up around a grandfather who still used the “N” word. My parents occasionally do as well. They grew up in a different time. I’m working to make sure my kids don’t see differences. They only see people.

  53. - Fed up - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:03 pm:

    I agree that their are many problems that still need to be addressed. Improving the minimum standard of education children receive would be a nice step forward. Schools can’t do it alone. Mom & Dad need to step up and ensure their kids no how to behave. Do I find Ofc Wilsons actions troubling yes, criminal no. Much like the pension post stating the bill doesn’t have to be paid all at once, the issues facing underprivileged communities are not going to be solved over night, steady progress has been and hopefully will continues to be made. Riots and violence don’t advance the issue, they just make people dig in deeper in their beliefs.

  54. - Mason born - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:05 pm:


    Just curious a coworker mentioned her 8 year old caught it on the News. I am glad i don’t have to attempt to explain it.

  55. - MrJM - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:09 pm:

    “Where he would have learned to do right is from moral religious training and role modeling and dedication from BOTH his parents.”

    So my father couldn’t have “learned to do right” because he didn’t get “role modeling and dedication from BOTH his parents”?

    You’re a real piece of work, Bob.

    – MrJM

  56. - Wordslinger - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:13 pm:

    Here in Oak Park, I’ve listened to my sons’ black friends joking about getting pulled over for Driving While Black.

    These aren’t gangstas or wannabes. Not even close. But they, superficially, fit a profile.

    They’ve eaten the hood while driving to Johnny’s for a beef, or going to the movies in Melrose, or taking their siblings to the old Kiddieland. My sons have been pulled over in the same places and never experienced such treatment.

    I wish we could muster the commitment and resources for advancing endangered young black males that we’ve demonstrated for the heroin kingpins of Afghanistan.

    Why we invest a dime in them after all this time is beyond me. They’re rich beyond measure due to our protection and what they’ve stolen from us.

  57. - hisgirlfriday - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:14 pm:

    I happen to think the grand jury should have indicted Wilson and forced him to stand trial in this case, but it is hard for me to work up the energy to argue with those who feel otherwise about the specifics of this case when the aftermath has exposed so many general problems in this country that need addressing.

    There were people shutting down highways in places like Rhode Island and Nashville over this last night not just in places like NYC or Oakland. Its just wild to think about.

    This case has reminded me just how utterly alienated all Americans seem to feel from each other. Conservatives and whites feel terribly alienated by what is happening in the culture where minority athletes, celebrities, and a president have more influence over their children than they’d like and judges are making radical changes to family law upsetting conservative social norms. Meanwhile, racial minorities and liberals feel terribly alienated by the political process when Republican gerrymandering and moneyed interests having control of so much government policy has made the act of voting to change things seem like a waste of time. And all races and political orientations of course feel alienated economically by the new global borderless economic landscape with large corporations and Wall Street being so much more powerful than they are as individual economic participants.

    I just don’t know how this gets better. :(

  58. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:27 pm:


    complaining on an Illinois political blog about republican gerrymandering that is a special type of denial.

  59. - Under Further Review - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:29 pm:


    I have been pulled over for being in the “wrong” place. Generally, I was taking local streets because Chicago never built a crosstown expressway. Some of the police profiled me on the assumption that I did not belong on the West Side and must have been seeking compensated companionship or drugs. Others wanted to warn me that the neighborhood was “unsafe” and I needed to explain my presence and get out safely.

    All I wanted to do was play golf at Columbus Park or visit the Hawthorne Race Track in Cicero.

  60. - Jake From Elwood - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:30 pm:

    The wide chasm of opinion on this issue is proof positive that a racial divide still exists in our country even though the gap has narrowed since the 1960’s. Obama called this one right.

  61. - Not OW - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:32 pm:

    hisgirlfriday at 12:14,

    Grand juries exist to determine whether there is sufficient cause for someone to stand trial. They do not exist to decide guilt or innocence. Prosecutors have an ethical duty, I think, to not file charges, or even put a case before a grand jury, if there is insufficient evidence to convict. And you want Wilson to be charged and stand trial? That’s Trayvon Martin all over again–there was insufficient evidence to convict, nonetheless, the case was wrested from a prosecutor who made the right call in standing down and we ended up with a trial that accomplished nothing.

    I would like something positive to come from this. There is nothing positive in prosecuting a man when there is not enough evidence to gain a conviction.

  62. - Del Clinkton - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:32 pm:

    Thank you “hisgirlfriday” for a great post…which I think gets to the crux of the matter.

  63. - Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:36 pm:

    =Arizona Bob 11:29 - Yes, I really do think that Mark Brown would have developed respect and good values by attending a quality all day pre-school with a well qualified and caring teacher=

    That certainly wasn’t indicated from your biased “Ounce of Prevention” reference, Enviro. They CLAIM that at-risk children commit violent crimes at 70% lower rates for kids with “high quality” early ed, but I checked their refences and nowhere was that number validated, at least that I could find. There’s also the question of whether that reduction could be due to other factors. Not good case making.

    The fact that they left out the Head start research showing that academic outcomes are indistinguishable from the general population by third grade cast doubt on the honesty of their marketing presentation.

    If you’re making the case that government raising kids from infancy, as Ounce of Prevention is advocating (more cash in their pockets that way), is somehow better thanparents hoome schooling their young children prior to kindergarten, I’d love to see the research proving THAT!

    BTW, exactly how do you think kids in headstart are being provided moral education and respect for police? I’d loce to see where outfits like Ounce of Prevention state that, it certainly wasn’t in their website.

    I put my kids into pre-school for socialization purposes. It has value there. I think our kids were better served by our teaching them to read and do math than in your programs, though.

  64. - hisgirlfriday - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:39 pm:

    @Anonymous - You are the one in denial if you think Republican gerrymandering doesn’t exist in other states. And I also brought up on an Illinois political blog the concept of judges changing family law alienating conservatives even though in Illinois we changed marriage via representative democracy here through the legislative process. So… what are you complaining about?

  65. - Keyser Soze - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:42 pm:

    Here are some random thoughts to stir the pot;

    As correctly mentioned in other comments, young people today are far less cognizant of racial or cultural differences than preceding generations. I can verify this through discussions with my own children, all in their twenties. Note the many white faces among the Ferguson protesters.

    Many young people are having a difficult time finding employment because we boomers are hanging around in the job market. We won’t go away.

    We are also seeing a residual impact of Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society that does little to discourage single parent households. This may have created a near-permanent underclass that lives “on the edge” vis-a-vis various government entitlements; enough to live on but not enough to prosper.

    Throw all of the above into the mix and you get a stew of disaffected youth. It is easy to construe Ferguson as a matter of race alone. It is far more complex than that.

  66. - SO IL M - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:45 pm:

    One thing the riots in Ferguson has shown is how large of a racial divide there is in this country. To change this people should seek the truth when things that incite violence occur. If the truth had been told from that first day in August the events of the last couple of nights may not have occurred. But instead media and people who make their living off of racism have propelled a tragic incident into an even worse nightmare for many more people. Some in the media still do not want the true facts of the events and the people involved told because it will not fit the definition of the story they want to put forth. Thousands of people still will not accept that they were lied to by people promoting their own agenda. The truth is that yes there is still steps to be taken in this country to eliminate racism. That racism still exists and that many blacks and whites are racist. But to take something that was not racially motivated amd turn it into something that was does more harm than good. Until people learn the truth for themselves about the motivation of those that claim to be leaders incidents like this will continue

  67. - West Side the Best Side - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:48 pm:

    12:27 Anonymous - hisgirlfriday made some excellent points and in case you haven’t noticed this particular topic is way beyond Illinois politics. We don’t exist in a vacuum unaffected by things that happen beyond our state borders and this topic is a perfect example.

  68. - hisgirlfriday - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:51 pm:

    @Keyzer soze - Right on.

  69. - Under Further Review - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 12:58 pm:

    Many commentators have faulted Ferguson for its local government and its police department. The demographics of the St. Louis suburb have changed dramatically in the last quarter of a century, but the municipal government of Ferguson has not.

    It is hardly surprising to those of us who follow politics that many politicians do not leave office voluntarily or quietly. As long as they can keep winning elections, they stay put.

    African-Americans represent a majority of Ferguson residents, but, if news accounts are to be believed, they seldom bother to vote in significant numbers. As such, the old pols have retained power. It sounds similar to Cicero, Illinois, where a white minority still controls local government in a Hispanic town.

    If there is gerrymandering or other illegal methods being used, that is one story. If the angry residents fail to vote for and assume control of the municipal government in their community, their own neglect is to blame for their predicament.

  70. - Gooner - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 1:01 pm:

    Giving kids a stable place to go is “raising them from infancy?”

    Arizona Bob do you you have any idea what kind of homes some of these kids from? Do you even care?

    AB, when you talk about a “religious upbringing”, that may lead to people who share your attitudes about kids. Your attitudes are not exactly a ringing endorsement for your proposed system.

  71. - rusty nail - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 1:04 pm:

    Colossus, If it makes you feel better I don’t think you are a racist. Gooner, racism consists of prejudice and discrimination, both of which you have shown.

  72. - Gooner - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 1:06 pm:

    Arizona Bob, what these kids need is some good southern religious education, so that they point assault weapons at people who demand that they pay grazing fees.

    Yeah, that’s the respect for authority that we need to teach kids.

    Let’s be blunt, Bob.

    There is no big difference in the “respect for authority” across different groups.

    The only difference is that one group tends to get shot when that “respect for authority” is not immediately apparent.

  73. - Kevin Highland - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 1:06 pm:

    Until the headlines read “Unarmed young man shot by police officer”; until we as a nation remove race from conversations and address the economy & teach all young people regardless of their heritage to be respectful of all people from shop owners to police officers we are going to continue to have this conversation again and again, ad nauseum.

  74. - Gooner - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 1:07 pm:

    Really Rusty?

    Point out the language that you believe showed that I am racist.

    Rusty, the fact that you agree with Colossus and his “just black people riot” says all we need to know about your views.

  75. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 1:08 pm:

    Until further review, It also sounds like Mike Madigans district and he aint leaving

  76. - rusty nail - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 1:14 pm:

    Gooner,apparently you can’t read. Show me where he said only black people riot. You are frackin pompous.

  77. - Gooner - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 1:34 pm:

    Rusty wrote: “You are frackin pompous.”

    Actually, I’m usually happy to admit to being friggin pompous. I’m not a fan of any sort of frackin.

    But we digress.

    Colossus posted. I responded. At this point RN, you have not addressed C’s point. As such, I’m happy to sit back and contemplate on my own former eloquence. There is nothing further to add.

  78. - Jan Bradley - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 1:48 pm:

    Several things can bring change. 1. change Missouri law that lets you shoot a felon in flight, 2. hire police officers that reflect the community you only 3 out of 53 police officers there are black, 3. body cameras are a must for police, 4. VOTE! if you don’t like the city prosecutor or mayor vote them out. Peace be with you.

  79. - thehofly - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 2:05 pm:

    I guess you ARE a Bleeding Heart, Rich!!!

  80. - William j Kelly - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 2:07 pm:

    Where is Nixon when you need him?!!!

  81. - walker - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 2:16 pm:

    About time we admitted and tried to deal with some widespread realities.

    “Driving (or walking) while black” is an “offense” requiring stopping or frisking in a lot of jurisdictions — when someone else doing exactly the same thing in the same spot would not be stopped.

    Many police officers will perceive more of a “dire threat” from a young black man, or Hispanic man in some areas, than from someone else doing the exactly same thing. I don’t doubt they feel it, but it’s a very destructive perceptual bias. A white man can walk into a restaurant or store holding a gun, and be asked to leave or to put it away, while a black man doing the same thing would more likely be killed by police or guards. We’re talking real cases here.

    When stopped by police more people of color legitimately feel they might actually be shot and killed if they make any misunderstood move, than do those of other races. People have been killed while on their knees in handcuffs, while secured in the back of a car, while reaching for their driver’s license in their back pocket, or their registration in their glove compartment. All the officer has to say is they felt threatened, and there is usually no consequence. When was the last time you really felt you were in danger of being shot and killed when stopped for a traffic ticket? Friends of mine actually do feel that way every time they deal with a cop.

    Talk to any cop, who really trusts you and thinks you on their side, and they will report to you racially biased attitudes and perceptions they hold or have heard from other cops — at least that has been my personal experience in Chicago, and New York City. I used to hire a lot of off-duty cops on a regular basis, and listen for it now.

    That is why this is not only about what happened in St Louis, and why we must not get lost in the specifics of that case. We need to face the real issues motivating (mostly peaceful) demonstrations in 100 cities across the US.

    Do I admire and trust most cops? Yes.

    Do they have a hard job I wouldn’t want? Yes.

    But there are a significant number of individual cops and departments that are plain bad on this issue.

    It doesn’t do anyone any good to live in denial on this one.

  82. - VanillaMan - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 2:17 pm:

    Mobs are stupid.

  83. - anon - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 3:20 pm:

    For about eight years, police in Illinois have bee noting the race of motorists they stop. The data gets analyzed annually and there is a consistent pattern: Black motorists are two-to-three times more likely than whites motorists to be subject to a consent search, even though police find contraband a higher percentage of the time in cars driven by whites. Black drivers are also more likely to be stopped and to be ticketed than whites, who are more likely to get warning tickets. The consistency in the data is revealing.

  84. - anon - Wednesday, Nov 26, 14 @ 4:00 pm:

    I want to thank Walker and Wordslinger for sharing their personal experiences on this issue. The data on driving while black are hard to deny, though that won’t stop some from trying.

Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.

* Reporters actually take Skillicorn seriously - Was home on Monday - Warns of increasing hospitalizations in Wisconsin - Says USDOJ is "very much under the political thumb of the White House" - Next EO will continue eviction ban - Number of people with multiple tests "very small" - Asked about southern Illinois winery's refusal to require staff to wear masks - Dr. Ezike doesn't answer question about self quarantine for Illinoisans at Lake of the Ozarks - Repeats that legislature "abdicated their responsibility" on replacing his withdrawn IDPH rule - Will sign cocktail takeout bill when it reaches his desk - Dr. Ezike: "I can't give anybody a COVID free pass" - Says legislature should've made more cuts - State will carry on if Pres. Trump cuts off National Guard - "No deal" on cannabis with his office
* 1,178 new cases, 39 additional deaths - But Dr. Ezike warns that weekend numbers are typically "a little bit lower"
* With strong union backing, penalty enhancement bill soars through General Assembly
* Question of the day
* COVID-19 roundup
* Before you get a haircut next week, consider this
* Budget roundup
* *** UPDATED x1 *** New Senate rule allows remote committees, limited remote floor voting
* ISP: "We’re between a rock and hard place"
* Stay Safe Today, Be Vigilant For Tomorrow
* Our Democracy Is Too Important, The Fight Continues
* Always zoom out on crowds
* *** UPDATED x1 *** I've changed my mind about remote legislating
* Open thread
* SUBSCRIBERS ONLY - Today's edition of Capitol Fax (use all CAPS in password)
* SUBSCRIBERS ONLY - Budget and BIMP stuff (Updated with this week's password)
* Pritzker unveils business guidance; takes questions on budget, legislature, EO
* Senate President Don Harmon talks to reporters
* Madigan's closing statement
* Yesterday's stories

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