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Meanwhile, in Opposite Land

Thursday, Jul 9, 2015

* NW Indiana Times

An Indiana Vision 2025 Report Card produced by the Chamber shows Indiana is No. 1 in the nation when it comes to regulatory freedom but ranked 47th when it comes to entrepreneurial activity. […]

The state ranks 45th in the proportion of its citizens attaining two-year associate degrees and 42nd in those attaining four-year bachelor’s degrees.

To be fair, the state isn’t all bad. Click here.

- Posted by Rich Miller        

  1. - Anon - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 1:39 pm:

    Wait a minute… companies the ability to do anything they want doesn’t translate into more jobs? The Kochs and Rauner have lied to me.

  2. - PMcP - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 1:45 pm:

    Regulatory freedom is my new favorite euphemism.

    No officer, I wasn’t breaking the law I was exercising regulatory freedom!

  3. - Wordslinger - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 1:45 pm:

    It sure is swell all the regulatory freedom Indiana gives BP at Whiting.

    Who doesn’t burst with pride when the refinery exercises its freedom to discharge mercury into Lake Michigan?

    You can see the evidence of regulatory freedom all over Northwest Indiana.

  4. - non-partisan - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 1:50 pm:

    How does Illinois rank? Oh, yeah, last in fiscal responsibility.

  5. - A guy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 1:55 pm:

    Keep this up and Indiana might just pick itself up and move.
    Just like all those modular homes rolling down US 30. Don’t laugh. We just might wake up one day next to Ohio.

  6. - Albany Park Patriot - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:00 pm:

    You know who has low taxes, zero regulations and next to no employer liability? Kansas. And they’ve cut their own throats.

  7. - Liberty - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:02 pm:

    Don’t let facts get in the way…

  8. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:06 pm:

    === We just might wake up one day next to Ohio.===

    Good. It’d be easier to get to White Sox games in Cleveland.


  9. - Try-4-Truth - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:06 pm:

    Yes it is.

  10. - Six Degrees of Separation - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:07 pm:

    It’d be easier to get to White Sox games in Cleveland.

    And to complain in person about who is/isn’t in the RRHOF.

  11. - Norseman - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:10 pm:

    Maybe Indy needs to go back to Indiana and help their governor fix that state.

  12. - Tournaround Agenda - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:36 pm:

    I can’t wait to become more competitive with Indiana in entrepreneurial activity and college degrees once the Turnaround Agenda is passed.

  13. - Arizona Bob - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:39 pm:

    It would be interesting to see the Illinois rankings along side of those in Indiana. Other than non-governmental entrepreneurship and attracting venture capital, I expect that Indiana would fare well in that comparison.

    One of the problems that Indiana has in venture capital attraction and is it really hasn’t developed as a “Mecca” for high tech. Indy, Bloomington, South Bend and West Lafayette really haven’t reached their potential for new start ups like we find in Urbana, the medical campuses in the Downtown, Hyde Park and West Side areas as well as Evanston and the I-88 corridor.

    There really isn’t much engineering growth in Indiana as there has been in Illinois, either.

    Venture Capital is primarily about growth industries, and Illinois service sector (engineering, tech, and med start ups) is doing really well now, and the neighborhoods surrounding downtown has really been a magnet for professional millenials. They just love the activities and restaurants there.

    The risk there is that if Chicago, Cook County, and CPS make living in Chicago unaffordable to them from tax increases for income, real estate, and doing business there, the service industry base is very mobile and could easily relocate if the evils become insufferable.

    Spreading crime could also kill things off. We had a friend of the family murdered in Lakeview a few weeks ago on a busy street by an animal who killed him to get his cell phone. If that keeps happening, perhaps the millenials will ditch the place. That would be a BIG problem for the future of Chicago.

    Can Rahm and the CTU control themselves enough not to kill the golden goose and doing to the service industry what Blago did to the trucking industry in Illinois? Stay tuned, campers…

  14. - Former Hoosier - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:43 pm:

    And, let’s not forget Indiana’s high rate of smoking and obesity. As a former Hoosier, I always get a kick out of folks (who don’t live in Indiana) talking about how wonderful it is there! If it’s so great, why do so many people from NW Indiana work in Illinois? If the state is so well run, why are so many of the school districts having operational referendums? Hint- because Ditch Mitch guttered school funding and the districts have cut and laid off as much as they can but still don’t have the money necessary to run the schools.

  15. - Jorge - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:45 pm:

    I don’t think Indiana needs to have it’s economic guts ripped out after all.

  16. - Sir Reel - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:45 pm:

    Indiana is working hard to go back to the early days of the industrial revolution. Next, child labor!

  17. - Arizona Bob - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:46 pm:

    Folks, don’t fool yourselves. We’re not San Francisco or Austin when it comes to start ups and job growth. We have a lot of small businesses starting up in the last couple years, but they haven’t created a lot of good paying jobs, at least not yet. The only “billionaires” we’ve created have been in the hedge funds, folks like Rauner. The big banks have left and aren’t coming back, and manufacturing continues to die on the vine. works out great for the finance majors, and Rauner’s buds can prosper here. The irony is that it’s the hedge fund billionaire, not the “friends of people” like Madigan, who’s making moves that need to be taken to bring in manufacturing and good paying middle class private sector jobs. What’s the Dem party done towards that goal, other than cash giveaways to their campaign contributors who wind up expanding elsewhere and often closing shop and leaving?

  18. - Southern Illinois Hoopdee - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:47 pm:

    Any clue how Missouri ranks in these metrics?

  19. - Southern Illinois Hoopdee - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:50 pm:

    Bob - Indiana isn’t a great state for those companies either. They aren’t a Democratic run state by any measure. What big business has to realize is that they need the workers who can afford to buy what they sell. Some are starting to get this, others like the Koch’s…not so much.

  20. - cover - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:55 pm:

    = What big business has to realize is that they need the workers who can afford to buy what they sell. =

    The robots at modern manufacturing plants certainly don’t buy what they sell…

  21. - Southern Illinois Hoopdee - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 3:00 pm:

    ==The robots at modern manufacturing plants certainly don’t buy what they sell…==

    Maybe not but business needs people who prosper and can be sustaining of themselves in order to buy more goods and services.

  22. - Just Observing - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 3:17 pm:

    === You know who has low taxes, zero regulations and next to no employer liability? Kansas. And they’ve cut their own throats. ===

    Kansas has zero regulations?? You don’t need a medical license to practice medicine there? Restaurants do not have to pass health inspections? There are no building codes in Kansas? Your citation please.

  23. - IllinoisBoi - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 3:50 pm:

    Read this and weep, Hoosiers.

    “llinois among top states in creating businesses

    So much for the jobs-killer rep—when it comes to states that are growing new businesses, Illinois is among the top U.S. leaders.

    The Land of Lincoln ranked No. 2 among states where businesses are being created the fastest, according to numbers released yesterday by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics….”

    –Crain’s Chicago Business, June 19, 2015

  24. - Secret Square - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:01 pm:

    Check out this ranking of states by fiscal condition:

    Yes, this is a libertarian/right leaning think tank and the metrics and numbers they use might cause your eyes to glaze over, but the bottom line is that by almost every measure they use, Indiana (and Missouri, in case you were wondering, SIH) are significantly more solvent, both short-and long-term, than we are.

  25. - Arizona Bob - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:35 pm:

    @Southern Illinois Hoopdee

    It depends on what you’re selling. It isn’t retail manufacturing that’s driving the economy in Illinois…it’s services, agriculture, and finance.

    People don’t buy the seed corn and soy beans Illinois produces, and very few buy tractors from Deere and Cat. Consumer items largely are produced overseas.

    BTW, if you think that the Koch bros don’t pay well, you’re delusional. People who work for them make salaries commensurate with the energy professional and construction trades nationally, and they hire the best and pay for them.

    Sam Walton’s clan in Arkansas and Buffet’s crew in Omaha are another story, and they don’t pay near as well as the Koch’s. Apple, Disney and Microsoft are doing everything they can to put their IT people in the unemployment line by abusing the H1B program.

    I also suggest you take a look at the growth and employment levels in Kansas. Job creation is skyrocketing there, especially in KC where we have a branch office. The comparison in job growth in high tax Missouri KC compared to low tax Kansas KC shows the difference between the more growth oriented tax policies in the states.

    I do think Kansas over did the tax reductions, however. A much more modest cut would likely have served the same purpose without the angst.

  26. - Arizona Bob - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:47 pm:

    Illinois Boi, the number of start ups is not so important as the number of jobs, and job pay, for those jobs.

    Right now a lot of college grads are being hired by phone sales firms in Chicago that have high turnover and pay about $15/hr for college grads a few years out of school. Commissions are there, but pretty tough to get much from them. Banks aren’t hiring much, and those that are are paying chump change.

    Tech start ups? Two of my old Illinois neighbor’s kids just graduated in computer engineering from UIUC, which is ranked in the top 5 nationally in that field. Both were honors students there. Both also left for San Jose and Palo Alto because the pay and potential ownership opportunities blew away what Illinois start ups were offering, even when housing and the ridiculous taxes out there were considered.

    Another graduated from UIUC in Chem engineering, with honors,and she got a great deal in Houston with EXXON. Illinois companies just weren’t competitive enough to keep them.

    If you want to work in phone sales for Seattle level min wage , Chicago’s the place to be. If you want to make serious bucks, ya gotta move.

    And the best and the brightest are….

  27. - nixit71 - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:48 pm:

    Some Kauffman Index of Entrepreneurial Activity rankings:

    Iowa 50
    Indiana 47
    Minnesota 46
    Wisconsin 44
    Kansas 43
    Illinois 39
    Missouri 34

    There is no one-size-fits-all approach, folks. And it doesn’t look like today’s entrepreneurs are flocking to the Midwest in general.

  28. - IllinoisBoi - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:00 pm:

    Bob — I’m sorry your neighbor’s kids couldn’t find jobs in Illinois. But statistics show Illinois is a good place to make a living, and getting better:

    “Illinois. Last year Illinois just missed making the top 10, but this year it surged all the way to No. 5. The key to its high ranking is that Illinois has relatively high wages combined with a reasonable tax rate and cost of living. The one negative is that the 6 percent unemployment rate in the state is still above the national average.”

    Best Places to Make a Living: Ranks the Top States

  29. - Judgment Day (on the road) - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:43 pm:

    The problem is that just when we start to make some headway on creating jobs, we get situations like this happen:

    Link is:

    “Last week Chicago added a nine percent tax to Internet streaming services such as Netflix and Amazon Cloud. The “cloud tax,” formulated and passed by the city’s Board of Finance, immediately makes entertainment more expensive for consumers and life much more difficult and expensive for technology startups.”

    From a technology/startup standpoint, it’s hard to even comment on this action by the City of Chicago without risking being banned by Rich.

    So I’ll just post the link and leave it at that.

  30. - foster brooks - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:25 pm:

    does loves canal flow into burns harbor?

  31. - foster brooks - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:25 pm:

    times beach indiana

  32. - anon - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:45 pm:

    Last time I was in IN, the only small business that was growing was crack. I’m not talking about a plumber’s crack. By the way IN is looking as bad as St. Louis…poor and making drugs. I was there last year..IL is only good to the rich and corporations. And all of them including DOTS Food don’t pay enough taxes. If you let Jill Tracey back in office you are voting for billionaire who is no better than Rauner.

  33. - Arizona Bob - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 8:01 am:

    =Bob — I’m sorry your neighbor’s kids couldn’t find jobs in Illinois.=

    Actually, they had plenty of offers here. The problem was that Illinois’ environment isn’t competitive for professional growth in the computer and energy industries compared to California and Texas. The investment in tech just isn’t coming to Illinois like it is in Austin, Houston, and Northern California. A lot of that has to do with the tax and regulatory environment from Springfield and Chicago. My company, owned by management and venture capital companies, had to “diversify” away from Illinois to buy companies in Texas, Kentucky, and Kansas to defray the risk of having too many eggs in Illinois baskets. We still are centered in Illinois, but we could quickly move the flag to Kansas or Texas if the Springfield meltdown gets too bad….

  34. - Wordslinger - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 8:22 am:

    AB, you’re a laugh riot.

    Tech companies really sweat state “tax and regulatory” environments. That explains Silicon Valley.

    What new stories are you making up these days, anyway? “Your” company “here.” What’s that?

    You’re retired on a state pension living next to Sheriff Joe. And a high-tech mogul. And a double-ought spy.

  35. - Anonymous - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 8:23 am:

    AB, you’re attributing growth in the energy sector in Texas to taxes? Did you forget that maybe it’s because they have access to enormous oil and gas deposits?

    Also, there’s a little thing called winter here, which I’m guessing is why you spend time in Arizona.

  36. - Judgment Day (on the road) - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 9:12 am:

    “Tech companies really sweat state “tax and regulatory” environments. That explains Silicon Valley.”
    Word, you are missing something. When Silicon Valley first was developing, it has an incredibly strong hardware base. That’s substantially gone - not just offshored, but out of CA.

    Now it’s mostly software and HQ and design. That’s not bad - it’s not like they are destitute - but it’s not as strong as it used to be.

    One component in the loss of that business was that hardware has lower margins, so local and state regulatory environments out in CAland did have a negative effect when compared to software. So a considerable amount of hardware and hardware related business went elsewhere.

    Now, they’ve still got strengths, but these days, the tech growth requiring a substantial hardware component is going elsewhere (outside of CAland).

    We can get some of that business here in IL - but first we have to get our act together.

  37. - Wordslinger - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 9:23 am:

    JD, tech is talent driven. Where you can find it, where you can attract it. Nobody sets up shop in Northern California because it’s cheap in any way, shape of form.

Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.

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