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Our sorry state

Monday, Sep 11, 2017

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Aside from SIUE and the U of I system and, to a lesser extent, ISU, not a whole lot of great news there.

- Posted by Rich Miller        

68 Comments
  1. - wordslinger - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 3:31 pm:

    If you look at the charts more closely, the great majority of the declines have taken place since the 2011 benchmark, especially at Southern, Western and Eastern.

    Not an accident. And they’re the heart of Rauner’s base.

    With friends like that….


  2. - Arsenal - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 3:35 pm:

    It’s stuff like this, not the staff turmoil or public gaffes that really stand in the way of Rauner’s re-election. The state is hurting, and there’s no evidence that he can make it any better.


  3. - 47th Ward - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 3:39 pm:

    For a more complete picture, overlay state appropriations for higher education and the accompanying tuition increases adjusted for inflation.

    You can’t cut your way to great universities, or even good universities.


  4. - wordslinger - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 3:39 pm:

    –The state is hurting, and there’s no evidence that he can make it any better.–

    There’s ample evidence that the damage to universities and social service providers was deliberate on the part of the governor by his actions.


  5. - City Zen - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 3:43 pm:

    8,000 more students at UIUC but 700 less come from within Illinois. Looks like the Illini are flyin elsewhere.

    http://www.dmi.illinois.edu/stuenr/ethsexres/ethsex96.htm


  6. - Ron - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 3:44 pm:

    Chicago State should have been shut down ages ago.


  7. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 3:46 pm:

    ===For a more complete picture, overlay state appropriations for higher education and the accompanying tuition increases adjusted for inflation.

    You can’t cut your way to great universities, or even good universities.===

    This. This and - Wordslinger - too.

    This is the type of chart Rauner would enjoy as to the goal of closing state universities.

    The goal since Rauner took the oath with the wrong hand has been to deny Higher Ed a chance to get full funding and to be competitive within all of Higher Ed in the region or nationally.

    Rauner wants state universities closed.

    You don’t fund Higher Ed at levels of zero, 30%, or veto in into entirety the funding for Higher Ed for full fiscal years

    Why won’t Rauner just come out and “say” that?

    I’ll leave that there, thanks.


  8. - zatoichi - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 3:48 pm:

    Overall that is a drop of 3,914 students with gainers growing by 17,424 and losers dropping 21,338. Gotta ask what the shrinking groups did not do. I am in central Illinois and do not recall any advertising for EIU anywhere (TV, billboards, magazines, radio). HS admin friends say EIU was not a consistent presence at their schools. Friends in Charleston said EIU lowered some entrance standards which led to serious in town problems and regional locals staying away. Competition for the head count is required everywhere regardless of the business. Pay attention to the customers. They can shop elsewhere.


  9. - Piece of Work - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 3:50 pm:

    EIU drops 5% but it is the lowest % drop in 6 years. So, all those years when Rauner wasn’t guv EIU took the biggest hits, stats that have been shown numerous times on this blog.


  10. - DownstateKid - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 3:53 pm:

    This has been a problem for at least a decade. I left the state because I got a superior education for lower cost than any in-state school offered.

    Plus, outside of UoI-Champaign, none of these schools are drawing outside students in.

    Look at Indiana, IU or Purdue gobble up out-of-state students. Illinois is a one-trick pony on the public side.


  11. - Put the fun in unfunded - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 3:58 pm:

    For a more complete picture, look at number of HS grads in Illinois. 2011 was peak year and since then they have declined by about 6.5%. Probably more so in the areas feeding WIU, EIU. Higher costs are sending more students to community colleges and closer to home. Given on line learning, ease of travel, do we need the higher ed network we had 75 years ago PLUS SIUE, UIC, Sangamon State, etc that did not then exist? Reflexively bashing Rauner does not advance a serious discussion about higher ed delivery infrastructure. SB1 with evidence based model for higher ed?


  12. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:01 pm:

    ===Reflexively bashing Rauner..===

    In two seperate FY Budgets, Rauner vetoed Higher Education in its entirety.

    Reflexively bashing? “Rauner vetoed Higher Ed”


  13. - Anonymous - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:05 pm:

    OW get your head out of the sand. Rauner has nothing to do with the fact that no one wants to go to EIU or WIU.


  14. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:07 pm:

    When you flat-out refuse to fund something as a governor, that’s the governor stating, clearly, no ambiguity…

    “I don’t want this to exist”

    That’s what squeezing the beast and Rauner and the destruction of higher ed all come together… that and as always with this convergence… governors own.


  15. - Rayne of Terror - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:08 pm:

    I’m from Terre Haute and the talk of the town is how many Illinois freshmen are at ISU this year. I read in the Tribune Star that their incoming Illinois numbers QUADRUPLED this year.


  16. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:08 pm:

    ===Rauner has nothing to do with the fact that no one wants to go to EIU or WIU.===

    It’s an election year, why won’t Rauner just say as an election pledge he will purposely and honesty close state universities?

    And… pick a name.


  17. - Nearly Normal - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:09 pm:

    U of I gets a lot of grad students from China and elsewhere. They have the programs that attract foreign students and that helps their numbers.

    ISU is about where they want to be student wise. There was a decline in undergrads but also an increase in grad students according to the Vidette.


  18. - City Zen - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:14 pm:

    Enrollment drops:

    EIU
    2012 = -6.8%
    2013 = -6.2%
    2014 = -8.8%

    SIU
    2012 = -2.8%
    2013 = -4.1%
    2014 = -2.1%

    Some interesting stats when you drill down. EIU’s Freshmen Class of 2002 was 27% bigger than 2001. What caused such a spike?


  19. - City Zen - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:17 pm:

    Sorry, SIU should be WIU above.


  20. - Norseman - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:19 pm:

    Higher education has been hit with cuts for years. Rauner exacerbated the situation to crisis levels with his impasse. To those who support higher education, vote accordingly.


  21. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:22 pm:

    - City Zen -

    When Iowa State sends students who apply their scholarship acceptances that make it less than any IL state universities…

    When Michigan’s “directional” schools have sliding scales of monies to make it far cheaper for Illinois students to go there…

    When Mizzou, Alabama, Kentucky, all SEC schools can give monies and scholarships merely by being from Illinois…

    That’s how numbers compound over time.

    So - City Zen -

    Should Rauner just come out in an election year, after flat out refusing to fund higher education and honestly admit he (Rauner) wants schools closed.

    Why won’t Rauner do that?


  22. - Ron Burgundy - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:23 pm:

    I think the schools facing double digit declines have to look internally as well, as we’ve discussed before here. Did the budget crisis impact them negatively? Sure, but they also have shown a failure to innovate and set themselves apart from the competition for this smaller pool of students. What is “special” about EIU, Chicago State, or SIU-C or their programs? Having a long history of existence doesn’t guarantee a continued one.


  23. - Jibba - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:31 pm:

    Long term trends at these universities are only worrisome for EIU and CSU, and to a lesser extent at SIUC. Mostly flat enrollment would be ideal given the declining population base in the vicinity of the regionals. And typically, funding is at the heart of the problem and the solution. But I would suggest one or two things to try, rather than let the downward trend continue (other than increase state funding).

    1) Close one or two, most likely EIU and CSU due to the availability of other schools nearby, relatively speaking. The decline at CSU seems terminal, frankly, due to the political troubles.
    2) Try alternative education methods, like offering a 4 year degree in 3 years of full time attendance for the same cost by expanding online learning and summer attendance (faculty may have to go to 12 months for their current 9 months of pay in order to keep their university and their jobs afloat).


  24. - DownstateKid - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:43 pm:

    -When Mizzou, Alabama, Kentucky, all SEC schools can give monies and scholarships merely by being from Illinois…-

    This is false and doesn’t exist. SEC schools offer merit scholarships based on grades or family connections. Sister is attending Mizzou currently and there is zero scholarships based “merely” from being from Illinois.

    Source: http://financialaid.missouri.edu/types-of-aid/scholarships/first-time-college-students-non-residents.php


  25. - City Zen - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:44 pm:

    EIU is only going to get worse. 33% of their full-time enrollment in 2016 were seniors.


  26. - Robert the 1st - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:47 pm:

    Well if we just listen to Ralph Martire and Wordslinger, blame Rauner, and change nothing we should be good right? That’s what we’ve been doing for longer than 30 years…


  27. - Oneman - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:49 pm:

    I know for some folks, everything is Rauner’s fault…

    TLDR;
    18 & 19-year-olds end up making most of the decision about where to go to school and they are thinking about costs (to some extent) and if they like the place and if they can study what they want. They are not thinking about state higher education levels.

    As the parent of a kid who recently went through this process and one that is about to do so, I think I may a different perspective on this.

    First, based off of my daughter and her friends it seems that students don’t really ponder state education policy when looking at schools (nor do most parents). I will say this out of the schools that we visited or expressed interest in the Illinois schools did the worst job of following up (by far), this included schools in Wisconsin, Iowa, Kentucky, and Kansas (where she ended up going). The experience we had with UIS was so disappointing that I sent e-mails to the chancellor and the admissions office, neither entity could be bothered to get back to me. U of Kansas offered enough in merit scholarship money that our cost is about the same as if she had gone to U of I, who offers virtually no merit scholarships.

    You can argue that state funding leads to this lack of outreach, but she ended up going to U of Kansas (a state even more broke than Illinois) and they managed to do so.

    She qualified for merit scholarships at state schools in at least Kansas, Iowa, and Wisconsin. In Wisconsin, she could have gone to a couple of their schools besides Madison for less than it would have cost to go to school at any state school in Illinois as a resident. If she had gotten her ACT up one more point, the package Iowa would have offered would have also meant it cost less to attend than U of I.

    All of those other state schools reached out to her, had people call, etc. None of the state schools did even the ones she visited. Good old NIU (where her mother and I both got our undergrad degrees from) didn’t even try, ironic since we give from time to time as alums. You figure they would think that the child of donor alums might be worth reaching out to. Don’t underestimate the value of even a little outreach to an 18-year-old.

    Then again their reputation in our neck of the woods is such that as my daughter put it “I didn’t work this hard to go to NIU”, suffice to say it seems that NIU is no longer considered ‘the best of the rest’ as it were. A couple of classmates of my daughter, as well as the son of an HS classmate of mine, decided to leave NIU after their freshman year (and it was not due to grades), it was due to the environment at the school. There is a reason that ISU has had growth and NIU has had shrinkage.

    In my neck of the woods (and OW’s as well) so many kids from the Oswego schools end up going to Iowa the joke is that it is Oswego West. Our district used to do class ranks and would have a top 10% thing for students at each HS, of the kids who met that criteria the year my daughter graduated I think every single kid going to U of I or UIC was going into a STEM field, there were kids going to study the humanities but none of those kids were going to a school in the U of I system. Three of the smartest kids I know who were the same age as my daughter (two went to IMSA) ended up going to the University of Minnesota to study engineering.

    When I asked my daughter’s various friends about why there were going to school where they were, ranging from NYU to UCLA and U of I and UIC not one of them referenced education funding from the state as why they picked the school they did.


  28. - wordslinger - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:49 pm:

    –Well if we just listen to Ralph Martire and Wordslinger, blame Rauner, and change nothing…–

    What did I say, specifically?


  29. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:51 pm:

    ===This is false and doesn’t exist. SEC schools offer merit scholarships based on grades or family connections. Sister is attending Mizzou currently and there is zero scholarships based “merely” from being from Illinois.===

    Let’s unpack all… this…

    “This is false and doesn’t exist. SEC schools offer merit scholarships based on grades or family connections.”

    The merit based scholarships are also determined and weighed by being an “out of state” student, not a student living in Kentucky or Alabama, for example.

    If you can “get in” to, let’s say U of I, with the grades and SAT/ACT and get no aid, and you apply to Kentucky and/or Alabama, same student, same application and get monies… Hmm…

    “Sister is attending Mizzou currently and there is zero scholarships based “merely” from being from Illinois.”

    Yeah, here’s the rub there…

    Mizzou has the “residency” rule you can apply for, being from out of state that after 12 months, it significantly reduces tuition to in-state, which is still cheaper that Illinois.

    I can’t help your sister didn’t look at that savings, given that guidance counselors and Mizzou itself touts the mere changing of residency, after that 1st year, as a selling point.


  30. - DownstateKid - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:53 pm:

    Oneman

    Great post, but warning to the wise. It doesn’t fit the narrative that Rauner is trying to destroy the public universities so you will be treated as a imbecile.


  31. - Norseman - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:54 pm:

    === decided to leave NIU after their freshman year (and it was not due to grades), it was due to the environment at the school. ===

    Environment or demographics?


  32. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:56 pm:

    - City Zen -

    Then why won’t Rauner just close EIU instead of just refusing to fund state universities?

    Why?

    - Oneman -

    ===In my neck of the woods (and OW’s as well) so many kids from the Oswego schools end up going to Iowa the joke is that it is Oswego West.===

    This is very true, as students also say the OHS and OEHS counselors know that financially and that Illinois, (including the U of I system) is in a financial crisis exaserbated these past Rauner years.

    Great stuff there, - Onenan -


  33. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:57 pm:

    - DownstateKid -

    It must be so difficult, being a victim as you are, LOL


  34. - DownstateKid - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 4:58 pm:

    -Mizzou has the “residency” rule you can apply for, being from out of state that after 12 months, it significantly reduces tuition to in-state, which is still cheaper that Illinois.

    I can’t help your sister didn’t look at that savings, given that guidance counselors and Mizzou itself touts the mere changing of residency, after that 1st year, as a selling point. -

    Once more, wrong again OW. Sister became a resident of Missouri to get in-state. But I enjoy precision of language, so she didn’t “merely” get money for being an Illinois resident. Iowa residents, Kansas residents, Arkansas residents, Kentucky residents and every other region get that exact same benefit as my sister did.

    Mizzou sells that because their out-of-state tuition is around the same price as in-state UoI. And guess what, Missouri has seen massive funding cuts to upper education too. This isn’t a Rauner problem, but a post 2008 cut problem.

    But narrative right? Try to merely keep up ole boy.


  35. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 5:03 pm:

    ===But I enjoy precision of language, so she didn’t “merely” get money for being an Illinois resident===

    Yeah, she couldn’t have gotten that break by being a resident, so she got the break bring an Illinois resident and following the rules.

    Funny how you forgot that, LOL

    ===And guess what===

    What. No, seriously, what. What am I guessing. What is this big guess, lol

    I guess my question to you is… Rauner isn’t funding state universities less, Rauner twice refused with vetoes to fund state universities… at all

    Can you keep up or is this all over your head?


  36. - City Zen - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 5:03 pm:

    ==When I asked my daughter’s various friends about why there were going to school where they were, ranging from NYU to UCLA and U of I and UIC not one of them referenced education funding from the state as why they picked the school they did.==

    This pretty much sums it up. Most of my college-aged relatives made similar choices. We keep bickering about whose to blame for the current mess, but the truth of the matter is that younger generations view the college experience differently. Lifestyle plays a big part, and since they’re going to be paying off student loans for awhile anyway, many are making more “exotic” choices. They could care less about Illinois politics of higher ed funding.

    I have nothing against Illinois schools not abbreviated CSU, but why not spend 4 years in a part of the country you might not otherwise ever have the chance to live in? Conversely, does IL have that same appeal to those outside the state?


  37. - Norseman - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 5:05 pm:

    Amusing DownstateKid. Not getting any funding for a year and partial funding for another will make any institution a well oiled machine, right.

    The downward trend didn’t begin under Rauner, but the starvation was his fault.


  38. - wordslinger - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 5:09 pm:

    City Zen, I’m pretty sure Illinois has always been in its current location.

    Was it just a strange coincidence that enrollment declines accelerated at the same time state funding for higher ed and MAP grants were zeroed out?


  39. - Amalia - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 5:12 pm:

    NIU, what a shame. things were flying when Peters was there.


  40. - Vote Quimby - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 5:13 pm:

    I didn’t realize how much SIUE closed the gap on Carbondale.


  41. - Arthur Andersen - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 5:24 pm:

    My family and friends’ experience with current students (AA has 2, one at UIUC, one at SIUE) tracks closely with the comments of other posters. There are plenty of Springfield kids at Mizzou, none of whom mind staying in CoMo in the summer to save on tuition rather than come home and live with Mom & Dad. Iowa is also a popular choice for students from the ‘Patch because of the price incentives and the quality of the institution.

    As far as State schools, the “brains” primarily engineers and premeds are going Illini, and aspiring teachers are choosing ISU or SIUE. Business majors are taking the best school they can get into/afford, with a good number opting for ISU over UIUC. Very little local interest in the other schools, from what I have seen and heard over the past few years.

    Again, this is personal, non-statistically sound observation.


  42. - City Zen - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 5:26 pm:

    Word, no doubt that’s part of it. But I also see steady and significant declines before then. We’re debating the semantics of whether a speeding race car heading straight for a brick wall hit the turbo boost.

    Perhaps the answer is right under our noses. EIU’s Freshmen Class of 2002 was 27% bigger than 2001. What did EIU (or the state) do to attract so many more students? Can it be replicated?


  43. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 5:33 pm:

    ===Can it be replicated?===

    This is actually really on what’s going on.

    Having a governor that vetoed 2 of the 3 fiscal years of higher education complete funding didn’t happen back then, and further, there wasn’t a feeling within the universities they were under siege by the refusal to allocate funding by a governor.

    Where you are on it with the right question is…

    “Where can we begin stabilizing state universities so high schools and high school seniors also feel that confidence to consider staying in Illinois”

    I’d like to begin there too.


  44. - Arthur Andersen - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 5:47 pm:

    One more thing-forgot to mention that SIUC is getting pummeled by schools in 3 neighboring states. SEMO, Murray State, and Indiana State are all competing for SIUC undergrads with various deals.

    Oneman, it’s unfortunate that you were treated shabbily by our state schools. We were warmly welcomed at both schools my daughters ended up attending. My UIUC alumni status and donations may or may not counted for something, but SIUE really went all-out. I was shooting the breeze at student orientation with a campus police Lt. and we exchanged information. He dropped by my daughter’s dorm on move-in day to check on us and emailed me a couple times during freshman year to make sure she was doing well.


  45. - blue dog dem - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 6:06 pm:

    SIUC is in trouble. A little to do with Rauner, but not much. I give this challenge to the current chancellor. You have two years to right the ship or we shut ya down.


  46. - Rich Miller - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 6:07 pm:

    ===we shut ya down===

    Who’s “we”?


  47. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 6:12 pm:

    ===You have two years…===

    Why two years? How about Rauner says he’s planning on shutting down state universities in his second term.

    Why won’t Rauner run on a campaign that is “Re-elect me and I’ll shut down state universities”?

    Rich already asked the lede… Who is this “we”?

    I’m letting you make it Rauner, but to claim that, explain why Rauner won’t run on closing universities?


  48. - blue dog dem - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 6:20 pm:

    WE. Me. All knowing. All seeing. But this hasn’t happened overnight. is there no accountability for job performance anymore? Rauner will lose his job because he is a bad governor. 4 chancellors in a row can’t right a sinking ship. How long do tax payers have to keep bailing water?


  49. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 6:23 pm:

    ===How long do tax payers===

    Who is not a taxpayer?

    Why won’t Rauner run on closing state universities?

    Is there a reason?


  50. - swILL - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 6:33 pm:

    Perhaps the answer is right under our noses. EIU’s Freshmen Class of 2002 was 27% bigger than 2001. What did EIU (or the state) do to attract so many more students?
    City Zen, part of that increase may be because 4000 more Illinois high school students graduated in Spring 2002 than the year before, according to EIU’s statement at the time.


  51. - blue dog dem - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 6:41 pm:

    OW. Yes he should. Just a question to you. If a university shows such a drastic reduction in enrollment for a significant number of years, what should be done about it?


  52. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 6:42 pm:

    I suggested a “Lincoln University” system with the “directionals” unifying not unlike Wisconsin, SUNY, Cal, or Penn State.

    It’s out there, you can google to find it.


  53. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 6:44 pm:

    Then again, I’m not running for Governor, I’m not governor, and I haven’t vetoed 2 of the last 3 full year budgetary funding for Higher Education.


  54. - blue dog dem - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 6:48 pm:

    College in general. I have no problem with what universities or jucos charge. Obviously the lower the cost, the better. my RUB. THE STINKING RIPOFF FROM THE LENDING INSTITUTIONS ON WHAT THEY CHARGE FOR INTETEST ON STUDRNT LOANS. Bernie Sanders should be railing against these outrageous rates when the ripoff lending institutions borrow from the feds at prime and quadruple the rates to the kids.


  55. - blue dog dem - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 6:52 pm:

    How do ya like that spelling. U of I grad. Yikes.


  56. - Mr B. - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 7:15 pm:

    Chicago State is in serious trouble. More than the budget is going against that school.


  57. - Norseman - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 8:27 pm:

    === If a university shows such a drastic reduction in enrollment for a significant number of years, what should be done about it? ===

    How about reviewing the system to see how to improve IL higher ed instead of starving it to death. Maybe a campus or two should be closed. Perhaps limit some degrees offered by all campuses.


  58. - Ron - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 8:28 pm:

    I continue to say it until it happens. Shut down CSU.


  59. - blue dog dem - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 8:48 pm:

    Norse. Yes, yet another failure of the businessman turned governor. a true leader lays it out on the table, makes the tough decisions, and lives with those decisions. If you make a good enough case, us simpletons can sometimes understand . I get the fact higher ed can be an economic engine. I also understand a failing(enrollmemt wise) university can be a blight on an area. Attracting kids that aren’t serious about education can result in draining a communities social services,a communities infrastructure and a communities emergency services.


  60. - up2now - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 9:19 pm:

    I got laid off from EIU. My house in Charleston is worth about 60 percent of what I paid for it. Close EIU and you might as well put Charleston out of its misery.


  61. - blue dog dem - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 9:41 pm:

    Up2now. I am very sorry you have run into extremely difficult times. May God help you and your family.

    There are 2000 laid off steel workers in the granite City area. Any guess what home values are in Granite? Your misfortune and theirs are life lessons that we should take nothing for granted.


  62. - Piece of Work - Monday, Sep 11, 17 @ 10:19 pm:

    Blue dog dem— those rates on student loans are set by the federal government. The Feds make billions in revenue off college kids. Talk to our esteemed senators about lowering those rates


  63. - blue dog dem - Tuesday, Sep 12, 17 @ 3:26 am:

    POW. Yup. Coupled with the tens of billions pocketed by the lending institutions, its a real ripoff.

    The rate is supposed to be based on a 10 yr T bill plus an additional amount. We subsidize the ag industry, the military industry, nations across the globe. Heck, we even subsidize the oil industry.

    Obviously there are defaults that account for some of these ‘additional costs’ but geez, tripling and quadrupling? If we want to make higher ed affordable, start here. But no, our two party system,yes, Democrats and Republicans are controlled by the ’system’.


  64. - Downstate - Tuesday, Sep 12, 17 @ 8:41 am:

    If we believe that students are leaving Illinois because of the financial crisis, why don’t believe the same is true of businesses (ie. job creators)?


  65. - OneMan - Tuesday, Sep 12, 17 @ 8:45 am:

    Norseman -

    As for the environment vs demographics thing…

    One kid lives in an area that has a decent sized African American population (south suburbs of Chicago) and at least his dad (my HS classmate) went to an HS that was majority African American when he graduated.

    One kid was African American

    Third I can’t speak to as much, my guess is however that the demographics of NIU shouldn’t surprise someone who has looked into going there.


  66. - OneMan - Tuesday, Sep 12, 17 @ 8:54 am:

    One other thing, you might be surprised by the number of good out of state schools in the Midwest who offer ‘deals’ to Illinois residents via the Midwest Student Exchange Program. In most states that will exclude the flagship school (U of W Madison for example) and they may have a grade or ACT requirement or other limits as well for the discount but it can be significant. For example, LaCrosse limited it to the top X of out of state kids from a state in the program but it basically lets you attend at the in-state tuition rate.

    Indiana State used to have a billboard right in Oswego pointing out it can cost less to go there and a state school for an Illinois resident.

    Also OW,

    Unlike most other states, it is easy for your kid to establish Missouri residency they just get a summer job in MO after their freshman year so they live down there for 1 year and hit the other requirements. Much easier than Kansas for example (looked into that).

    http://registrar.missouri.edu/residency/residency-requirements.php

    It seems like they almost encourage it.


  67. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Sep 12, 17 @ 8:59 am:

    ===It seems like they almost encourage it.===

    Agreed. Just as the Iowa “1st year part time, 2nd year resident” marketing they do to Illinois students or Iowa State’s merit based rewards out of state students by the admission strandard the opportunity to rate in-state tuition, all that make staying in Illinois difficult.


  68. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Sep 12, 17 @ 9:23 am:

    downstate, because there’s evidence for one and not the other. Illinois is at the top of the list for startups and expansions every year, according to Site Selection.

    Consumers are “job creators.” Businesses don’t “create jobs” out of the goodness of their hearts. There’s a 12.8M consumer market to be served here, regardless of the state budget.

    And those businesses that sell their goods and services out of state aren’t taxed on that income.

    No MAP grants or funding for higher ed for two years would give any sentient prospective student pause.


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