Capitol - Your Illinois News Radar » Should animal abusers lose their FOID cards?
SUBSCRIBE to Capitol Fax      Advertise Here      Mobile Version     Exclusive Subscriber Content     Updated Posts    Contact
To subscribe to Capitol Fax, click here.
Should animal abusers lose their FOID cards?

Tuesday, Nov 28, 2017

* Jaclyn Driscoll with Illinois Public Radio

Under federal and state law, anyone convicted of domestic violence loses their right to legally own a gun, but there’s a push to also see that penalty extended to anyone convicted of animal abuse.

The Illinois State Crime Commission is behind the proposal. They say it would be an irrevocable, lifetime penalty for all offenders who would lose their ability to receive a Firearm Owner Identification card, eliminating their ability to purchase or own a gun in Illinois.

Jerry Elsner, executive director for the commission, is urging lawmakers to go along. He says people who injure animals, regardless of age, don’t deserve a second chance. “An animal abuser is similar to a pedophile. There really is not cure for it. It just gets worse. They pose a risk to our society.”

Some studies suggest that cruelty to animals is a precursor to other violent crime, specifically involving people. Elsner cited the Sutherland Springs Texas shooter who claimed to buy animals online to use as “target practice” before his shooting rampage that killed 26 churchgoers.


- Posted by Rich Miller        

  1. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 11:39 am:

    Some people would argue hunting is animal abuse.

  2. - 360 Degree TurnAround - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 11:39 am:

    Isn’t hunting a form of animal abuse?

  3. - Perrid - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 11:41 am:

    Neglect is often lumped in with abuse, which might be unreasonable. If you intentionally torture or kill an animal I do think that says something about your lack of morality, and thus is evidence that you can not be trusted with more power, and so it would be dangerous for you to own a gun. I’m cool with the idea, but then again I’d be pretty cool if everyone voluntarily turned in all their guns tomorrow…

  4. - Speaking truth - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 11:52 am:

    “An animal abuser is similar to a pedophile.”

    What?…. No seriously, what?

    What a degrading statement. Animals are not humans, and they should never be given a higher or equal value. Let’s not degrade human life with absurd statements like that.

    And just to be clear that I’m not throwing out the baby with the bathwater, animal abuse is repulsive and should be dealt with as such. But it is not on the same level as child abuse and molestation.

  5. - DuPage Saint - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 11:54 am:

    It would be instructive to know how many people a year in Illinois are convicted of animal abuse and also of those people so convicted how many would already be barred from receiving a foid card because of other reasons

  6. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 11:55 am:

    I say this as one of the biggest dog lovers of all time - No.

    Domestic abusers lose their firearms privileges because they’ve proven themselves to be violent towards their families and/or partners. It’s reasonable to say that such a person is a heightened risk for gun violence.

    The same does not hold for someone who neglects/abuses an animal. Maybe take away their ability to own animals?

  7. - FormerParatrooper - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 11:56 am:

    People who abuse animals with the intent of being cruel do not deserve to live in society. Not only should they be restricted from having a FOID, they should not be allowed to have a driver’s license, to vote or to enjoy the other rights and privileges of our social contract.

    Hunting is not animal abuse, unless you kill an animal, remove the head for a mount and leave the body or just shoot game and non game animals and leave the bodies. People who do that are cruel and deserve the same fate.

  8. - Neveranonymous - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 11:58 am:

    Neglecting an animal may not be the same as abuse but it probably has bad implications for gun ownership. It suggests a certain degree of irresponsiblility, and we don’t need any more irresponsible gun owners either.

  9. - Cubs in '16 - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 11:59 am:

    @Speaking truth

    Respectfully, I don’t think animal abuse was being equated to pedophilia. His point is there’s no ‘cure’ for perpetrators of either offenses.

  10. - JS Mill - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 12:00 pm:

    = “An animal abuser is similar to a pedophile.=

    No, it isn’t similar.

    I love animals, I have owned them my entire life. My dogs have always been members of the family but I also know animals are not people.

    If the crime was gun related the idea would make some sense. Otherwise no. Totally opposed.

  11. - Perrid - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 12:00 pm:

    @ Speaking Truth, “… and they should never be given a higher or equal value.”
    That’s your opinion, not an objective fact, so cool your outrage a little. Just because it is easier for you to empathize with beings that are similar to you does not mean that similarity imparts some objective value to them. Not sure why you feel the need to make it a competition anyways, especially since the comparison was not even meant to say the actions are on the same level damage wise, just that the people who do either are very likely to repeat their crime.

  12. - Anon221 - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 12:02 pm:

    The Sutherland Springs shooter should never have been able to have a gun, much less guns. As to which came first in his life, animal or domestic abuse, I don’t know if that has been established. Perhaps the FOID registration should also include questions about convictions for animal abuse and/or neglect. There are connections showing that people who abuse animals can make that next step to humans. Read through these postings and think about which of these people you would or would not want to have a legal right to a gun. Also, consider the circumstances, and what we as a society could do together to make sure the path to abuse never starts. Something to keep in mind when “Waste, Fraud, and Abuse” are thrown around in budget talks (local, state, or federal).

  13. - cdog - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 12:04 pm:

    Don’t we still have many uncollected firearms from people that have lost their firearm rights?

    I do agree with this sentiment, but animal abuse is hard to define, except for the most obvious cases with domestic animals.

    (It is argued in this link that anyone the eats “factory produced meat” is participating in inflicting suffering on animals, considered equal to marginal cases of humans.)

    If you’re interested in that sort of thing…

  14. - lobo - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 12:05 pm:

    “An animal abuser is similar to a pedophile”


  15. - Blue dog dem - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 12:18 pm:

    How many gun crimes are committed in a year by Illinois FOID card holders?

  16. - Last Bull Moose - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 12:22 pm:

    No. This would open another front in the neighbor wars and an opportunity for people who oppose guns to bring animal abuse charges.

  17. - cdog - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 12:39 pm:

    “An animal abuser is similar to a pedophile”

    Absolutely yes.

    Pedos and animal abusers are both moral agents (who know better) inflicting suffering on a moral patient that has no agency.

    I think a child and an animal are similar because neither can really be a moral agent, and can only be considered a moral patient.

    From the Norcross paper, above — “If a being is incapable of moral reasoning, at even the most basic level, if it is incapable of being moved by moral reasons, claims, or arguments, then it cannot be a moral agent.”

    This would include children, impaired/marginal case humans, and animals.

    “That animals can’t be moral agents doesn’t seem to be
    relevant to their status as moral patients. Many, perhaps most, humans are both moral agents and patients. Most, perhaps all, animals are only moral patients. Why would the lack of moral agency give them diminished status as moral patients?”

    Take the guns from the pedos and the animal abusers, but really follow through and collect them.

  18. - Amalia - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 12:41 pm:

    It is a particularly cruel form of violence. yes, keep them from guns. special note to watch animal abuse in young people.

  19. - Juvenal - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 12:52 pm:

    There is an undeniable correlation between animal abuse, child abuse and spousal abuse.

    State law currently requires animal welfare investigators to notify child welfare investigators if there is a child in the home, and visa versa.

    The key features in all three crimes are a lack of empathy, lack of self control and proclivity for violence.

    These seem like a basis to deny someone a firearm.

  20. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 1:02 pm:

    You can abuse an animal and still be a decent person….said no one ever.

  21. - illini - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 1:17 pm:

    As someone who had a 4 legged family member shot by a “crazy” neighbor my answer is Absolutely Yes.

    Of course, he denied it and was never charged by our local Sheriffs Department. I did not witness it and it was my word against his but he had connections.

  22. - Sillinois - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 1:40 pm:

    No, someone should not be stripped of their constitutional rights over something as subjective as animal abuse. If they are convicted of a felony, they will lose their FOID card. We are still innocent until proven guilty in this country, regardless of the outrage of the day.

  23. - Downstate43 - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 1:56 pm:

    == - Blue dog dem - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 12:18 pm: How many gun crimes are committed in a year by Illinois FOID card holders? ==

    Now that is a statistic I would very much like to see, especially as a percent of all gun crime in IL.

    Pardon the pun, but this is dog-whistle politics 101 - just appealing to feelings. Show me a correlation, at least. “Some studies” is the weakest copout.

  24. - fed up - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 2:13 pm:

    Yes - google “NIH, animal cruelty, antisocial personality disorder” to see the data on why. If you abuse an animal you clearly are a higher risk to also abuse humans. You need to not have a gun.

  25. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 3:02 pm:

    Yes. Absolutely. Cruelty to animals indicates at the very least a mental illness and, as others have said, is often a precursor to violence to persons.

  26. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 3:27 pm:

    Make it a felony and it would be

  27. - logic not emotion - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 3:39 pm:

    No. Not the same. Bad legislation.

    Show me a well defined and universally accepted definition of animal abuse and then we can talk.

  28. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 4:42 pm:

    Lets be careful about stripping fundamental rights away so quickly. And forever? Why not apply this standard to the rest of the Bill of Rights?

  29. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Nov 28, 17 @ 6:29 pm:

    Cruelty to animals of the sort that would disqualify one from gun ownership is probably enough to be put on the ban list for mental health history. We need to fix that area of the database to actually put people on it, but I’m not certain that means we need a specific process for animal abuse.

  30. - Animal Lobbyist - Wednesday, Nov 29, 17 @ 8:16 am:

    While I completely agree and support the correlation between animal cruelty as a precursor to more violent crimes towards humans down the road, I’m a bit confused. Illinois law already has felony penalties for cruelty, neglect, fighting, abandonment, and even sexual assault. If somebody is convicted of these offenses then they would already have their FOID revoked or wouldn’t be able to apply for FOID at all. What kinds of offenses is the Commission wanting to cover then? Misdemeanors?

Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.

* But his e-mails...
* Permanent Legislative Inspector General finally named
* Rockford airport still waiting on its money
* Fight for change, but don't succumb to cynicism in the meantime
* Open thread
* Question of the day: Golden Horseshoe Awards
* Quick mayoral roundup
* Ives backs Krupa even after allegations emerge
* Did Dahleen Glanton nail it? We'll know soon enough
* An army of one
* Thanks!
* SB 1226 Endangers Safe Drinking Water & Public Health
* I just don't see it happening
* Yesterday's stories

Visit our advertisers...







Main Menu
Pundit rankings
Subscriber Content
Blagojevich Trial
Updated Posts

December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004

Blog*Spot Archives
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005


RSS Feed 2.0
Comments RSS 2.0

Hosted by MCS SUBSCRIBE to Capitol Fax Advertise Here Mobile Version Contact Rich Miller