Tuesday afternoon update: The deadline for the Senate to override Gov. Rauner's veto of a bill to license Illinois gun shops is tomorrow. Still unclear if there will be a vote today or tomorrow.
Sen. Harmon says he'll have enough votes for an override in the Senate, but it's trickier in the House. There are political questions: do you put people on a tough vote in the Senate if it won't move in the House? https://t.co/039sEmiqwy
State Sen. Andy Manar, D-Bunker Hill, said he would vote 'no' on potential gun dealer licensing override: "It exempts large retailers and puts the burden of regulation on smaller business owners. And I haven't yet been told a logical reason for that exemption." #twill
To Manar: The gang bangers aren’t buying their guns at the big gun stores that have cameras and fully document their sales. They’re buying them under the table at the neighborhood stores.
A logical reason for the exemption of large retailers is to keep them from opposing the bill. The big box retailers, after all, could afford to but lots of lobsters to work trying to kill it.
=Maybe it squeezes a few small mom and pop businesses out=
I have heard this argument but nobody can ever name a “few” that might be squeezed out. It would be nice to have some data to back that up but I suspect it is another 2A dog whistle.
its real simple a lot of FFLs work out of their house and don;t have a retail shop. They would be hit by the new regulations and fees and many would give up their license. We saw it happen when Clinton raised the fees to $300 and thousands of dealers dropped their license.
The State’s not going to do anything the ATF isn’t already. Just another feel good level of bureaucracy. Meanwhile, could be debating legislation to actually address the problems, from mental care to social programs.
=I have heard this argument but nobody can ever name a “few” that might be squeezed out.=
It’s the people that do this as a side business out of their home. A lot of them just do it to FFL transfers for friends and family, or just sell a handful of guns per year. Some of them would be lucky to make a grand or two per year. More of a hobby type of business. Lots of them out there. And generally not the sources for guns used in crimes.
=I have heard this argument but nobody can ever name a “few” that might be squeezed out.=
Should add, if you want to see names, just google map search “FFL” and the name of your town. When you see listings that show a house for the place of business, those are your guys (and gals).
This bill will do only one thing. Drive more business out of state. It is already far easier to drive to MO or KY to buy a gun now, and the Dems want to make sure that only large box stores(which take their profits out of state), or small businesesses in other states take the place of small businesses in IL. Thats the way to drive economic growth.
still the law in Pennsylvania that guns have to be sold via stores or transferred at a sheriff’s office. sounds good to me. even more important than ever after “transfer gate.”
=still the law in Pennsylvania that guns have to be sold via stores or transferred at a sheriff’s office. sounds good to me. even more important than ever after “transfer gate.”=
In Illinois they have to be sold via stores, or in the case of a private sale between two people, the seller has to do a foid check which involves calling an ISP hotline where a databse is checked. There is an exemption for gifts between certain relatives which was involved in the transfergate as you called it. Seems like an easy section to repeal.
Gifts between relatives doesn’t mean it’s a way to legally transfer to a prohibited person aka transfergate. The depth of misunderstanding and distortion here is sad.
Rauner could start shoring up the conservative base by vetoing all gun control legislation that hits his desk. Southern IL might actually come back into play for him.
– Rauner could start shoring up the conservative base by vetoing all gun control legislation that hits his desk. Southern IL might actually come back into play for him.–
That’s a winner, you think, going hard for Southern Illinois gun voters?
You know, my one “village” in the suburbs has a larger population than 70 Illinois counties?
There are a few dozen suburban towns that have larger populations than half of Illinois counties.
Where do you think the battleground is for general elections?
==note that I didn’t write that S. IL has any sort of majority population. Note also that I called the idea a “start.”==
Note that gaining a majority or plurality is the object of the exercise.
And if you “veto all gun control legislation” as you advised to please SI gun voters, do you think that’s a net gain or loss among all voters toward that goal?
=And if you “veto all gun control legislation” as you advised to please SI gun voters, do you think that’s a net gain or loss among all voters toward that goal?=
Wordslinger: regarding the effect on the entirety of the state’s voters from such a veto exercise, I’m unable to answer that with any certainty. I wish I had data on support for such an idea among non S. IL voters; the number of those pro-2nd amendment types certainly isn’t zero. At this point if I were on the Rauner Titanic I would be considering all sorts of Hail Mary strategies. Thanks for the comments.
Todd @ 3:15 pm: “They would be hit by the new regulations and fees and many would give up their license. We saw it happen when Clinton raised the fees to $300 and thousands of dealers dropped their license.”
So go to crawling back to your cronies at the IL Chiefs of Police and ask them to oppose the dealer licensing bill. You couldn’t do enough to give the police unions everything they wanted to set up armed citizens in Rep. Brandon Phelps’ concealed carry bill, so what’s the problem? Aren’t police unions and “law abiding gun owners” (favorite buzzwords of Richard Pearson at ISRA) all “on the same side” against “thugs” (favorite racist buzzword of NRA spokesman Wayne LaPierre) and “career criminals?”
Where’s the new NRA lobbyist nowdays since Todd Vandermyde was fired by Chris Cox in November? Heard that the new NRA guy has three states to cover. Has the corporate machine at NRA, Inc. written off Illinois for the next thirty years like they did before they muscled into McDonald v. Chicago and stole ten minutes of attorney Alan Gura’s oral argument time in front of the Supreme Court?
If a dealer is selling out of their home, they are most likely federally licensed. Someone just selling a gun to get rid of it is not a dealer. They shouldn’t have to be registered.
@Ihatepolitics - Can’t they sell it to a gun shop? Don’t those shops sell used guns? And how do you know if they have an FFL if they don’t have ANY state requirements? My barber has to be licensed. Even when I went to a barber/hairdresser that worked out of her home on weekends.
@sedric - I support the 2nd amendment, especially the “well regulated” part. You don’t have to be anti-gun to want controls on wackos and violent criminals getting guns.
The ATF is understaffed and hamstrung by NRA reps in Congress & the WH. Small businesses which can’t survive the proposed licensing requirements in the bill need to go out of business. Easy access to guns is the reason we have a constant stream of shootings. If you need a license to cut hair, do nails and drive a car, you need one to sell weapons.
- Just Me - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 2:30 pm:
To Manar: The gang bangers aren’t buying their guns at the big gun stores that have cameras and fully document their sales. They’re buying them under the table at the neighborhood stores.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 2:32 pm:
Hard luck Harmon.
- anon2 - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 2:34 pm:
A logical reason for the exemption of large retailers is to keep them from opposing the bill. The big box retailers, after all, could afford to but lots of lobsters to work trying to kill it.
- m - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 2:35 pm:
=And I haven’t yet been told a logical reason for that exemption.=
Agree with Manar there, though I would add that I still have not gotten a logical reason for passing the bill in the first place.
This is a bill that does nothing good. Maybe it squeezes a few small mom and pop businesses out, but otherwise doesn’t do much bad either.
The only reason for this is to pass “something” and Harmon hopes he can finally say he did “something”.
- JS Mill - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 3:07 pm:
=Maybe it squeezes a few small mom and pop businesses out=
I have heard this argument but nobody can ever name a “few” that might be squeezed out. It would be nice to have some data to back that up but I suspect it is another 2A dog whistle.
- Todd - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 3:15 pm:
its real simple a lot of FFLs work out of their house and don;t have a retail shop. They would be hit by the new regulations and fees and many would give up their license. We saw it happen when Clinton raised the fees to $300 and thousands of dealers dropped their license.
- Shemp - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 3:28 pm:
The State’s not going to do anything the ATF isn’t already. Just another feel good level of bureaucracy. Meanwhile, could be debating legislation to actually address the problems, from mental care to social programs.
- m - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 3:44 pm:
=I have heard this argument but nobody can ever name a “few” that might be squeezed out.=
It’s the people that do this as a side business out of their home. A lot of them just do it to FFL transfers for friends and family, or just sell a handful of guns per year. Some of them would be lucky to make a grand or two per year. More of a hobby type of business. Lots of them out there. And generally not the sources for guns used in crimes.
- m - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 3:46 pm:
=I have heard this argument but nobody can ever name a “few” that might be squeezed out.=
Should add, if you want to see names, just google map search “FFL” and the name of your town. When you see listings that show a house for the place of business, those are your guys (and gals).
- SOIL M - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 3:53 pm:
This bill will do only one thing. Drive more business out of state. It is already far easier to drive to MO or KY to buy a gun now, and the Dems want to make sure that only large box stores(which take their profits out of state), or small businesesses in other states take the place of small businesses in IL. Thats the way to drive economic growth.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 4:05 pm:
I’m thinking if people are selling guns out of their homes, they should be licensed by the state. They’re not peddling cupcakes.
- RetiredFF - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 4:11 pm:
=I’m thinking if people are selling guns out of their homes, they should be licensed by the state. They’re not peddling cupcakes.=
They’re already licensed by the Federal government and they give up their 4th Amendment rights to do so. You ought to try talking to one sometime.
- Amalia - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 4:26 pm:
still the law in Pennsylvania that guns have to be sold via stores or transferred at a sheriff’s office. sounds good to me. even more important than ever after “transfer gate.”
- m - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 5:38 pm:
=still the law in Pennsylvania that guns have to be sold via stores or transferred at a sheriff’s office. sounds good to me. even more important than ever after “transfer gate.”=
In Illinois they have to be sold via stores, or in the case of a private sale between two people, the seller has to do a foid check which involves calling an ISP hotline where a databse is checked. There is an exemption for gifts between certain relatives which was involved in the transfergate as you called it. Seems like an easy section to repeal.
- Tequila Mockingbird - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 6:38 pm:
Gifts between relatives doesn’t mean it’s a way to legally transfer to a prohibited person aka transfergate. The depth of misunderstanding and distortion here is sad.
- sedric - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 7:12 pm:
Rauner could start shoring up the conservative base by vetoing all gun control legislation that hits his desk. Southern IL might actually come back into play for him.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 7:47 pm:
– Rauner could start shoring up the conservative base by vetoing all gun control legislation that hits his desk. Southern IL might actually come back into play for him.–
That’s a winner, you think, going hard for Southern Illinois gun voters?
You know, my one “village” in the suburbs has a larger population than 70 Illinois counties?
There are a few dozen suburban towns that have larger populations than half of Illinois counties.
Where do you think the battleground is for general elections?
- sedric - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 7:53 pm:
Wordslinger: note that I didn’t write that S. IL has any sort of majority population. Note also that I called the idea a “start.”
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 8:03 pm:
==note that I didn’t write that S. IL has any sort of majority population. Note also that I called the idea a “start.”==
Note that gaining a majority or plurality is the object of the exercise.
And if you “veto all gun control legislation” as you advised to please SI gun voters, do you think that’s a net gain or loss among all voters toward that goal?
- m - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 8:08 pm:
=And if you “veto all gun control legislation” as you advised to please SI gun voters, do you think that’s a net gain or loss among all voters toward that goal?=
With McCann in the race, that’s a good question.
- sedric - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 8:10 pm:
Wordslinger: regarding the effect on the entirety of the state’s voters from such a veto exercise, I’m unable to answer that with any certainty. I wish I had data on support for such an idea among non S. IL voters; the number of those pro-2nd amendment types certainly isn’t zero. At this point if I were on the Rauner Titanic I would be considering all sorts of Hail Mary strategies. Thanks for the comments.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 8:11 pm:
–With McCann in the race, that’s a good question.–
McCann or not, going all in to please Southern Illinois gun voters is a net loss statewide.
It ain’t the primary anymore.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 10:51 pm:
Todd @ 3:15 pm: “They would be hit by the new regulations and fees and many would give up their license. We saw it happen when Clinton raised the fees to $300 and thousands of dealers dropped their license.”
So go to crawling back to your cronies at the IL Chiefs of Police and ask them to oppose the dealer licensing bill. You couldn’t do enough to give the police unions everything they wanted to set up armed citizens in Rep. Brandon Phelps’ concealed carry bill, so what’s the problem? Aren’t police unions and “law abiding gun owners” (favorite buzzwords of Richard Pearson at ISRA) all “on the same side” against “thugs” (favorite racist buzzword of NRA spokesman Wayne LaPierre) and “career criminals?”
Where’s the new NRA lobbyist nowdays since Todd Vandermyde was fired by Chris Cox in November? Heard that the new NRA guy has three states to cover. Has the corporate machine at NRA, Inc. written off Illinois for the next thirty years like they did before they muscled into McDonald v. Chicago and stole ten minutes of attorney Alan Gura’s oral argument time in front of the Supreme Court?
- Ihatepolitics - Tuesday, Apr 24, 18 @ 11:15 pm:
If a dealer is selling out of their home, they are most likely federally licensed. Someone just selling a gun to get rid of it is not a dealer. They shouldn’t have to be registered.
- Streamwood Retiree - Wednesday, Apr 25, 18 @ 8:39 am:
@Ihatepolitics - Can’t they sell it to a gun shop? Don’t those shops sell used guns? And how do you know if they have an FFL if they don’t have ANY state requirements? My barber has to be licensed. Even when I went to a barber/hairdresser that worked out of her home on weekends.
@sedric - I support the 2nd amendment, especially the “well regulated” part. You don’t have to be anti-gun to want controls on wackos and violent criminals getting guns.
- Froganon - Wednesday, Apr 25, 18 @ 5:01 pm:
The ATF is understaffed and hamstrung by NRA reps in Congress & the WH. Small businesses which can’t survive the proposed licensing requirements in the bill need to go out of business. Easy access to guns is the reason we have a constant stream of shootings. If you need a license to cut hair, do nails and drive a car, you need one to sell weapons.