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“Our college students are not stupid. They know how to do the math.”

Thursday, Sep 27, 2018

* Dusty Rhodes

As districts around the state begin reaping the benefits of Illinois’ new school funding formula, Democratic lawmakers who just happen to be up for re-election gathered today to remind voters that Republican Gov. Bruce Rauner initially vetoed that funding, and likewise vetoed legislation that would raise minimum teacher salaries to $40,000 over the next five years.

State Sen. Andy Manar (D-Bunker Hill), who sponsored the legislation and is seeking re-election, says it’s possible to get enough votes to override the veto when the General Assembly convenes shortly after midterm elections in November.

“I would anticipate, just from my own experience, that the outlook on controversial bills — though I don’t know why this one is controversial — is much different during veto session than it is during spring legislative session,” Manar says. […]

Under current law, districts can pay teachers as little as $10,000 per year. No district does that; starting salaries for teachers in Illinois’ lowest-paying districts are around $26,000 per year. But in hundreds of districts, beginning teachers still earn less than $40,000 — even if they hold master’s degrees.

* And teachers can work for decades and barely make more than $40,000 a year

Sen. Andy Manar of Bunker Hill, Rep. Sue Scherer of Decatur and Rep. Christian Mitchell of Chicago all said setting a higher minimum wage for teachers in Illinois will help alleviate the teacher shortage.

They got agreement from Connie Charlesworth, who has a master’s degree and retired from teaching after 30 years, earning $45,000 a year.

“Our college students are not stupid. They know how to do the math,” she said at Wednesday’s news conference outside the Illinois Education Association building near the Capitol. “They’re taking a look at how much their education is costing them. They’re also taking a look at their starting salary as teachers. They are deciding in great numbers not to go into the profession.”

Rauner vetoed Senate Bill 2892, which would have gradually increased the minimum wage for teachers to $40,000 in the 2022-23 school year. The current minimum wage is $9,000 a year set in 1980. In his veto message, Rauner called the bill an unfunded mandate and something that would remove local control.

Emphasis added.

- Posted by Rich Miller        

60 Comments
  1. - DuPage - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 11:40 am:

    Tier 2 really has made it hard to choose teaching in Illinois as a career. As more tier 1 teachers retire, the shortage will grow.


  2. - Demoralized - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 11:47 am:

    ==something that would remove local control==

    Local control to pay less.

    Don’t tell me this Governor is for workers.


  3. - Saluki - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 11:50 am:

    How much are teachers supposed to make? $60,000, $80,000, $150,000? They are unionized, I thought they were able to negotiate their wages? Dog and Pony show election year issue at best. No different than the minimum wage referendums that Democrats kick around every so often.


  4. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 11:54 am:

    ===How much are teachers supposed to make? $60,000, $80,000, $150,000? They are unionized, I thought they were able to negotiate their wages?===

    Fair point.

    Also a fair point that minimum wage for teachers tried to address that… what happened next…


  5. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 11:58 am:

    ===I thought they were able to negotiate their wages===

    You obviously have no clue what negotiations are about.


  6. - wordslinger - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 11:58 am:

    –They are unionized, I thought they were able to negotiate their wages?–

    The idea, here, Saluki, is to address a statewide teacher shortage problem, not to go in the tank for unions.

    And crazy as it might sound, but that whacky Illinois Constitution has screwball language making the state responsible for providing a free public education, K-12.

    Nuts, huh, that government should get involved, when we all know that the free market would provide for it?


  7. - Lynn S. - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:06 pm:

    How long has Mrs. Charlesworth been retired, and what district did she retire from?

    That might go a long way to giving context regarding her final salary.


  8. - Reality Check - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:10 pm:

    A teacher with 30 years of service and a final average salary of $45,000 retires on a $29,700 pension.

    Tier 2 benefit is lower.

    They aren’t eligible for Social Security.

    But tell me again how we should cut their pension, and not ask rich people to pay marginally higher taxes.


  9. - Taxpayer 1 - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:18 pm:

    I feel their pain but they work about 180 - 200 days a year.


  10. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:20 pm:

    ===…but they work about 180 - 200 days a year.===

    … teaching kids. Not many folks are willing to teach children, 6-18 year olds for 20+ years…

    But, I mean, it’s *only* 180-200 days a year.

    Yikes.


  11. - morningstar - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:20 pm:

    Lynn S - though I have a fair idea regarding the answer to your question, I think the “context” of an individual’s teacher’s salary is not relevant. There is sufficient evidence that this is a systemic, statewide issue.


  12. - Not It - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:20 pm:

    It isn’t the State’s job to mandate the pay of local government employees.


  13. - Cheryl44 - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:21 pm:

    Oh please Tax,that has never been true.


  14. - Name Withheld - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:25 pm:

    ===I feel their pain but they work about 180 - 200 days a year.===

    Assuming, of course, they don’t also have other jobs to supplement their income or are taking continuing education classes to keep current in their field; and also assuming that they aren’t using said income to purchase school supplies or other things necessarily for their classroom - then you might have a point.

    I’m not sure how that explains the teacher shortage, though. Maybe teachers value other things - like being able to own a home.


  15. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:30 pm:

    My favorite discussions on education, “K-12 Edition”…

    1) “I want the best education I can get for MY student, best teachers, quality educators.”

    2) “Teachers seem to make so much money for the little work they do… like, did you know (number of days worked) … “

    People want the best teachers for their kids, but would like them to make less than whatever it is they are currently making now.

    Yep, my favorite discussion.


  16. - Anonymous - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:30 pm:

    ==but they work about 180 - 200 days a year…==

    Oh, you think they are getting paid during their time off? That’s so cute. If I was your parent, I’d be ashamed.


  17. - LakeCo - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:36 pm:

    ===I feel their pain but they work about 180 - 200 days a year.===

    During which time they are literally expected take a bullet for the children they teach, should the situation arise.


  18. - thunderspirit - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:39 pm:

    == Yep, my favorite discussion. ==

    And it’s repeated, ad infinitum, because education is vitally important…until it comes time to pay the people who do it.


  19. - Jocko - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:42 pm:

    Bruce, like most Illinoisans, go out of their way to support public schools when their children attend…but quickly lose interest once they’ve “got theirs”.

    Rather than rationalize, Lynn and Tax should become teachers and fill one of the vacancies in 80% of Illinois school districts.


  20. - Flat Bed Ford - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:48 pm:

    How is the overall local economy in say, Bunker Hill? Or Olney? or Princeton? It’s more than just raising wages for teachers. The entire economy for rural Illinois needs to grow. That would increase wages, property values and make the overall picture better for Illinois. Sadly Dem’s just think mandating a higher wage will fix things. It won’t. In fact, it will make them worse as property taxes will have to be raised to pay for it all.


  21. - City Zen - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:51 pm:

    ==That might go a long way to giving context regarding her final salary.==

    - Triopia 2016 salary schedule shows her salary at $47,000, not $45,000
    - Triopia 2016 salary schedule and contract indicates school district picks up entire 9% employee pension contribution, so $4,200 not included in that number
    - BGA database indicates 27 years of service, not 30. I’m not sure how accurate that is, but my research has shown that the pay out of unused sick days usually sometimes translates to years of service, even though it’s not classroom time. It’s certainly not time taught, which is the message they’re trying to convey here.

    She also worked for the Illinois Democratic Party, which probably explains why she was the chosen representative.


  22. - Em - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:51 pm:

    Great bill Andy, stick it to all those rich school boards in your district who are swimming in Scrooge McDuck-like money piles. Low teacher salaries surely couldn’t possibly be due to schools not being able to afford higher salaries.

    Raising the price of a bill that someone can barely afford to pay now… that surely will work out in the end.

    This bill is a great idea, until you actually think about it for about 2 seconds.


  23. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:52 pm:

    ===It’s more than just raising wages for teachers. The entire economy for rural Illinois needs to grow. That would increase wages, property values and make the overall picture better for Illinois. Sadly Dem’s just think mandating a higher wage will fix things. It won’t.===

    (Sigh)

    If a student who graduates to become an educator…

    Sen. Manar

    ===“They’re taking a look at how much their education is costing them. They’re also taking a look at their starting salary as teachers. They are deciding in great numbers not to go into the profession.”===

    … mirroring professions like Doctors, for example, where *their* cost to be *in* a chosen profession… the cost is too high, given the cost to be educated to practice that profession.

    So… your straw man to make it about the “economy”… it’s about the cost to be educated into a profession versus the cost bared to then practice it.


  24. - Dr Kilovolt - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 12:56 pm:

    ==It isn’t the State’s job to mandate the pay of local government employees.==

    If that is what it takes to fulfill our constitutional mandate to provide education, then why not, Not It? The state already mandates that teachers be enrolled in the Teacher Retirement System instead of Social Security.


  25. - Flat Bed Ford - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 1:09 pm:

    OW,
    Keep denying that a growing economy helps Illinois in many ways. How in the heck is the school district in Bunker Hill going to ever be able to afford the starting wage for a teacher in Schaumburg or even Effingham?


  26. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 1:13 pm:

    ===How in the heck is the school district in Bunker Hill going to ever be able to afford the starting wage for a teacher in Schaumburg or even Effingham?===

    Do you think the best and brightest of teachers want to take a lower pay in Bunker Hill when they can get higher pay in Effingham or even Schaumburg?

    If you think rural Illinois deserves “lesser” teachers… that’s an economic choice you’re denying that is happening.

    I guess rural Illinois should get whatever teachers are willing to make less.

    That’s fun. Fun for those students too.


  27. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 1:18 pm:

    The cost of becoming an educator, certified, versus the idea that economically these newly minted teachers, or those now not willing to be one teachers do to the cost/benefit… even with the “love of teaching” being weighed… economically why teach?

    I know, “we want quality educators, certified… but we don’t want to pay them… to be… qualified, certified educators…”

    “Because economy”


  28. - Duopoly - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 1:20 pm:

    ==She also worked for the Illinois Democratic Party, which probably explains why she was the chosen representative.==

    Elected representative by her peers. Do you expected her to have ties to the IL GOP who has been largely anti-worker? - nice try on the spin.


  29. - Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 1:20 pm:

    First, the Governor is correct in stating that this is an unfunded mandate. It’s easy to tell a school district to pay at least $40,000, but I suspect most districts would do this if they could afford to. Where will this money come from? I would be much more impressed if the funding from the state were raised to a level that would allow low revenue districts to afford this mandate. Districts who have the resources already pay higher wages that allow them to attract and keep good teachers. Under-resourced districts cycle through teachers who leave for better pay in other districts or other professions not because they want to but because they do not have the revenue available to pay an attractive salary.

    Second: ===they work about 180 - 200 days a year.===

    Obviously, you do not have any idea what a teacher’s job entails. During the school year, teachers typically spend 35-40 hours/week in the classroom. On top of that, they spend 10-20 hours a week on grading and prep. During the summer “break,” they are expected to complete professional development (to maintain certification) and prep for the next school year. Teaching is a full-time job with work hours that are not 40-hours/week.


  30. - City Zen - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 1:28 pm:

    ==nice try on the spin.==

    That’s not spin, that’s context, like the other facts I pointed out.


  31. - the Patriot - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 1:29 pm:

    Teachers are not paid enough, no debate. But this bill closes a lot of schools in a very short period of time which would result in forced consolidation with no plan.

    If you are tax capped, and operating a balanced budget, you can’t just make the extra money appear so you are going under.

    I was waiting for Rauner to sign it and thank the Madigan for having the courage to force many small rural districts to close following his recommendation to reduce the number of government units.


  32. - Flat Bed Ford - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 1:31 pm:

    -I know, “we want quality educators, certified… but we don’t want to pay them… to be… qualified, certified educators…”-

    And what do we pay them with? Is OswegoWillyville located near BigRock Candy Mountain? I’m all for paying teachers way more than a starting salary of $40K but just waiving a magic wand does make the money to do so magically appear.


  33. - Angry Chicagoan - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 1:33 pm:

    Even in Chicago, where basic teacher pay is really very good, there are serious gaps; a grossly underfunded pension system and gaping holes in their health coverage to the point that, for example, very few mental health providers are in-network for CPS teachers. And that’s before you consider the general implications with workplace unpleasantness of working in CPS. The thought that you’d max out in some districts at 45K on a master’s degree is alarming.


  34. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 1:36 pm:

    ===And what do we pay them with?===

    The constitution here in Illinois says the state is suppose to be “involved” in this whole K-12 education thingy…

    ===I’m all for paying teachers way more than a starting salary of $40K but…===

    There’s really no “but” to consider, given that pesky constitution and the role of the state in K-12 education.

    If you think the state is meeting it’s obligation… well…

    What else ya got?


  35. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 1:37 pm:

    I’d also point you to “Madeupville” that Raunerites loved to add to list(s) of towns supporting the “Turnaround Agenda”

    LOL


  36. - Flat Bed Ford - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 1:59 pm:

    Sigh.
    -The constitution here in Illinois says the state is suppose to be “involved” in this whole K-12 education thingy…-

    It actually says in Article X …The State has the primary responsibility for financing
    the system of public education.

    That has been ignored since the day it was written. But I’m with ya! Let’s shift greater than 50% of K-12 funding to the state as we should have been doing all along. Collar county property taxes are going to be cut drastically. Increase the income tax to cover? I’ll be waiting to see the rates proposed by Manar & Mitchell just as I am with JB’s.

    Keep making arguments based in theory and in isolation. It solves nothing but it does explain how Illinois got into such a mess.


  37. - Em - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 2:17 pm:

    =If you think the state is meeting it’s obligation… well…=

    I guess I missed the part where the salary bill deals with that… Oh yeah, it doesn’t. It just forces school districts, a lot of whom are spending in the red still, despite the new formula, to pay money that they don’t have.

    This bill is about as bad as unfunded mandates get. The state shirks its funding responsibility, which is a major factor in the level of current teacher salaries and the shortage, and instead of dealing with the problem, just forces schools to spend money they don’t have.

    I guess you think it’s better to have students learning on Apple IIs and 15 year old textbooks? Maybe they should shut off the AC and heat. Leaking roof, who cares! I guess as long as we pay teachers better, that’s all that matters.


  38. - Anon - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 2:27 pm:

    CityZen > Duopoly

    Why? Because one simply states facts and the other tries to discredit the facts they don’t like.


  39. - Diogenes in DuPage - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 3:29 pm:

    Once again we find ourselves in a “full employment” economy and that historically has meant substitute teacher shortages and wide-spread teacher shortages in a variety of specialties. (Those who don’t learn from history are bound to repeat it.) Add a decade of “teacher abuse” from critics and politicians, and …. we’re surprised at the current state?


  40. - the Patriot - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 3:39 pm:

    You would help school funding and win over a lot more teachers if you just peeled back unfunded mandates and just let the teachers teach and forced the parents to parent.

    Most teachers did not go into the biz for the money, but they also did not go into the biz to be nannies because parents take no responsibility to raise their kids and the democrat party keeps pushing legislation requiring teachers to be parents, without hugs, telling kids you care, or whoop their @&% if needed.

    If Rauner had a brain he would worked the 40k bill into a consolidation plan. Reduce the number of districts (his idea) to save money. You would eliminate a lot of the low paying districts and push the average salary up. You would also elminiate a lot of teaching positions and whack the teacher shortage.

    Two parties talking about the same solution to a problem, but neither really having the guts to do it.


  41. - Downstate Dem - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 3:46 pm:

    This is going to make property taxes rise significantly especially in smaller districts as all teachers pay is based on the starting teachers base. The cost will be extraordinarily high.


  42. - City Zen - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 4:00 pm:

    ==all teachers pay is based on the starting teachers base.==

    The law only says the minimum is $40,000. There is no requirement to index all salaries to that $40,000 minimum.

    A school district can merely raise every step in the salary schedule below $40,000 to $40,000. That might mean a starting teacher and a 5th year teacher are on the same step for multiple years and make the same amount. Both still come out ahead though yet meet the new requirement.

    I’m sure that not what the teachers unions were intending.


  43. - Demoralized - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 4:14 pm:

    the Patriot:

    Just because you wish parents would do certain things doesn’t make it so. You can’t punish the kids because their parents won’t be parents.


  44. - Occam - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 4:25 pm:

    == The law only says the minimum is $40,000. There is no requirement to index all salaries to that $40,000 minimum.==

    We’re currently in negotiations with our teachers’ union. They have requested that EVERY teacher receive an increase equal to the dollar amount required to bump up to the new $40,000 minimum.

    I did not receive an adequate answer to my question to the union as to why someone currently making $100K would need an additional increase similar to somebody at the minimum at $38K.


  45. - Alex - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 4:29 pm:

    As a teacher for 11 years in a rural district, the 40K is a talking point. Most teachers are over 40K, and if they raise the salary without more funding, what do you think will happen to that district? The board and higher ups will make cuts or will look to freeze the wages of the other employees.

    The teacher shortage is an issue that I do not see real proposals to solve yet. I would like to see how many men are actually going into the field. From my personal point-of-view that number seems to be dropping even more. The idea in tier 2 to teach until your 67 is problematic. Unfortuantely, that is more of just an attempt to lower pension costs, then have people teach longer, because after 30 years of teaching, even the best ones are ready for a break and the not so great ones have checked out. Furthermore, administrators salaries increases have substantially risen while teachers in the downstate have been relatively minor and even taking pay freezes. Many men do not go into teaching to teach, but to become administrators and for the benefits. Some of the issues is they are not very good leaders, but are paid 3x more than a new teacher. I have yet come across an administrator that is worth 3 teachers, although some do a really nice job at what they do.

    Lastly, kids do not respect teachers in the same way that they used to, and a lot of this, in my opinion, is the shift in parenting seems to be more about protecting our kids, then teaching them to learn from their mistakes.

    Add all that up and why woud you become a teacher.


  46. - JS Mill - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 4:30 pm:

    =- Triopia 2016 salary schedule shows her salary at $47,000, not $45,000=

    $47,161 actually.

    =- Triopia 2016 salary schedule and contract indicates school district picks up entire 9% employee pension contribution, so $4,200 not included in that number=

    Because of the way they figure TRS it isn’t added to her salary and then taken out which lowers her pension saving taxpayers money.

    You should call and thank them for that.

    =- BGA database indicates 27 years of service, not 30. I’m not sure how accurate that is, but my research has shown that the pay out of unused sick days usually sometimes translates to years of service, even though it’s not classroom time. It’s certainly not time taught, which is the message they’re trying to convey here.=

    I have not used the BGA data base for teacher service record and would find any of those suspect in their accuracy. Does it include only Triopia service? She may have service elsewhere.

    To the post; Nobody has a starting salary of $9,000 or $10,000 anymore. If they did they would have a building wth no teachers. I am not supportive of a state mandated minimum since the state is not going to pony up any money to help districts that are not there.

    Rauner’s “local control” argument is a total crock. He couldn’t care less about local control unless it is convenient for something he wants.

    Want to help increase the number of people interested in teaching in Illinois? It takes a lot more than one thing like minimum salary- which has a minimal economic impact. Benefits- insurance costs have increased significantly and deductibles are rising. Tier II is lousy (thanks MJM).

    Outside of the high wealth areas class sizes, student needs, and parent expectations/behavior have all added stress to the teaching day.

    =They only work 180-200 days=

    Really? No. My teachers work in the summer. I spent three weeks with staff at various work shops last summer. They received no additional pay.

    It isn’t just one thing. It never is.


  47. - Ed Higher - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 4:38 pm:

    ==worked the 40k bill into a consolidation plan== Patriot: reducing # of districts doesn’t automatically reduce number of teachers. However if you do reduce # of teachers, student/teacher ratio goes up unless you reduce number of students (eg families fleeing the state). More work for teacher means even less incentive to become one, plus worse outcomes for students.
    Brilliant job.


  48. - City Zen - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 5:03 pm:

    ==Because of the way they figure TRS it isn’t added to her salary…==

    Right, the 9% contribution is based on her $47,161 salary. Her take home pay is $4,200 higher than it would be. What’s your point?

    Legitimate question: On her W-2, how is the pension pickup reported? Does she still get to deduct it from her taxable wages even though the district pays?

    ==…and then taken out which lowers her pension saving taxpayers money. You should call and thank them for that==

    I’d have to know the full history of the pickup, but if it’s like most districts in which they *maybe* freeze salaries for one year so they can pay an expensive 9% penalty every year from that point on, I’ll delay that call.


  49. - City Zen - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 5:13 pm:

    ==Does it include only Triopia service? She may have service elsewhere.==

    Records indicate her 20th anniversary with Triopia was in 2014, so she either taught or served in some other capacity in another district prior. This might also partially explain her low salary as some school districts don’t pay transferring teachers based on their previous experience (ie You have 10 years experience but the district puts you at Step 7, but I bet a teacher shortage will put an end to this practice).

    My point is whether you consider her earnings were $47,161 or $51,361 or she worked 27 years versus 30, why the embellishment? It’s probably a compelling story either way. But if you can’t be honest with the basic facts of your story, why should I listen to you at all? Why risk credibility?


  50. - ajjacksson - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 5:44 pm:

    ” Her take-home pay is higher than it would be .”

    No it isn’t. The idea that somehow the sum of these payments by the school districts on behalf of the teachers is some kind of bonus is flawed. All of that money is part of the negotiated salary for the teachers . The school districts do teachers a favor by paying their pension now so the teachers don’t have to pay tax on it until a later date . The idea that we could just stop paying that to save money is incorrect . The idea that some school districts somewhere decided to pay the teachers’ pension contributions just to be nice is flawed as well. Stop acting as though this is some kind of bonus that nobody else has . Teachers don’t get Social Security .


  51. - City Zen - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 7:03 pm:

    ==No it isn’t==

    Yes it is. She’s making $47,161 and, instead of having to pay $4,200 towards retirement, pockets that money. Thus, her take-home pay is higher than it would be. If you’re implying that is part of compensation, then she makes $51,361, not $45,000.

    ==The school districts do teachers a favor by paying their pension now so the teachers don’t have to pay tax on it until a later date==

    Pension and 401k contributions are deducted from gross wages to determine taxable income. In other words, tax deferred. Not sure what the favor is.

    ==Stop acting as though this is some kind of bonus that nobody else has==

    Either it’s a bonus or it’s part of gross wages. Either way it’s compensation that, in this particular example, was not cited.

    ==Teachers don’t get Social Security==

    Because they don’t pay into Social Security.


  52. - DuPage - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 9:17 pm:

    @- City Zen - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 7:03 pm:

    ==Teachers don’t get Social Security==

    ===Because they don’t pay into Social Security.===

    The school districts don’t pay into social security for teachers either. That saves the school districts almost 7% of the teachers wages.
    Teachers that work second jobs to get by pay social security on that income. When they retire under TRS, their earned social security benefit is cut drastically. The school district and state save money, the retired teachers lose money.


  53. - ajnussbaum - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 10:00 pm:

    City Zen…..I would agree that it is part of compensation.


  54. - AnonymousOne - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 10:13 pm:

    There is no reason for a person who is qualified to attend a university to select a teacher Education major. There are worlds of opportunity out there with not only far more dignity and less abuse but a paycheck that won’t force your family to live on so little. It’s ironic that a teacher (that the public demands be highly educated) can’t often send their own children to get the education they got because they can’t afford it on their income.

    Some might say that their kids teachers drive expensive cars, go on exotic vacations. That would be a teacher who is married to someone who is NOT a teacher and the teacher income is pocket money. Living and raising a family on a teacher’s income is a serious challenge for most teachers.

    If you are a parent, you should not allow your child to become a teacher unless you’d like to always subsidize them or have them live with you.

    That’s reality…… no matter what non teachers say. They don’t know. If lesser qualified teachers start being the norm in Education, well, then we’ve gotten what we asked for by treating them so poorly.


  55. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Sep 27, 18 @ 10:36 pm:

    ===Keep making arguments based in theory and in isolation. It solves nothing but it does explain how Illinois got into such a mess.===

    (Sigh)

    Again, educators who graduate with large debt to enter into a profession where they aren’t paid in correlation as to what parents require in credentials.

    It’s like you want to be angry… but you want good teachers for kids too… but… “you want to be angry”…

    Yikes.

    ===I guess I missed the part where the salary bill deals with that… Oh yeah, it doesn’t. It just forces school districts, a lot of whom are spending in the red still, despite the new formula, to pay money that they don’t have.===

    Nah, you didn’t miss it, you’re choosing to ignore the obligation of the state when it comes to K-12 discussion. It was fun.

    ===I guess you think it’s better to have students learning on Apple IIs and 15 year old textbooks? Maybe they should shut off the AC and heat. Leaking roof, who cares! I guess as long as we pay teachers better, that’s all that matters.===

    Oh boy, the anger here too.

    Again, my absolute favorite K-12 discussion…

    ===1) “I want the best education I can get for MY student, best teachers, quality educators.”

    2) “Teachers seem to make so much money for the little work they do… like, did you know (number of days worked) … “===

    Bringing up Apple II computers or whatever utterly goofy thingy you think makes you seem like a fiscal watchdog… the bottom line is… educators matter… because parents of students think the best teachers matter…

    Those parents aren’t talking Apple II computers…


  56. - Em - Friday, Sep 28, 18 @ 9:09 am:

    =Nah, you didn’t miss it, you’re choosing to ignore the obligation of the state when it comes to K-12 discussion. It was fun.=

    Are you serious? I specifically noted the failure of the state to pay what it should. Which is the entire point. This bill does nothing with that, it comes with 0 financial help from the state.

    This is like the someone refusing to pay their fair share of a group lunch, then telling the restaurant to raise prices on the rest of the group.

    This bill is the opposite of fulfilling the state’s obligation.

    =Bringing up Apple II computers or whatever utterly goofy thingy you think makes you seem like a fiscal watchdog… the bottom line is… educators matter… because parents of students think the best teachers matter…=

    Teachers matter. Facilities matter. Technogy matters. That’s why our heralded new formula specifically accounts for the costs of all of those.

    I speak as someone who sits on a small school board and has to account for paying the bills and where the money goes. We can’t keep teachers very long because we don’t have the money to pay them enough. We would love to pay them more. But this bill doesn’t help with that, it just tells us we have to spend more money we don’t have. So please, I gave you the opportunity to tell us what to cut. Heat, AC, technology, leaking roofs? Or should we lay off some teachers so that we can pay the remaining ones more?

    There’s a reason the entire management alliance, including the superintendents and school board association fought so hard against this bill. It’s bad policy. That’s according to the people who actually deal with school budgets.


  57. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 28, 18 @ 9:39 am:

    ===We can’t keep teachers very long because we don’t have the money to pay them enough. We would love to pay them more. But this bill doesn’t help with that, it just tells us we have to spend more money we don’t have. So please, I gave you the opportunity to tell us what to cut. Heat, AC, technology, leaking roofs? Or should we lay off some teachers…===

    You want me to do your job? If the decisions are hard, are you willing to make them?

    My point in all this.. is the point you seem to think is also a difficulty… keeping quality teachers.

    I have felt for a long time the state has to step up and fulfill its obligation. It’s not Pollyanna, but what happens is the local boards cry poor (far too many times rightly so) and local taxing occurs to cover, as it is formulated.

    That’s one issue. One.

    If you feel as a school board member you can’t tell the community you can either hire or retain teachers, quality teachers, it comes back to my favorite discussion, mentioned above.

    The answers aren’t unfunded mandates, or “only” raising taxes, or the state paying its fair share… but here’s the rub… why would anyone want to teach in any district that sees the value of educators at lower level than others… and why are we continually having discussions about the state meeting obligations here in education, and until the GA and a governor, maybe this current governor if he is re-elected, or another wins… the meeting of the state’s obligation, very specifically to teachers and their pay, should be where… as you look for others to make cut decisions… the state, when it has a budget, or a governor signs a budget, decides that education is where we need to invest.

    Otherwise… plan on hiring the “average and affordable” teachers, and move on. Don’t expect the “excellent and outstanding” to stay… or the “best and the brightest” to choose to be educators.

    Once schools fail in communities… communities fail.

    Apple II computers… or not.


  58. - Em - Friday, Sep 28, 18 @ 3:58 pm:

    =You want me to do your job? If the decisions are hard, are you willing to make them?=

    You already seem intent on telling me how to spend money with this bill, which should be a decision made by the board.

    =as you look for others to make cut decisions=

    Again, I don’t want the state to be making the decisions about local spending, and no school board in this state wants that, nor do they want this bill.

    “Once schools fail in communities… communities fail.”

    Agree, in fact you’d probably be hard pressed to find anyone to disagree with that sentiment. The problem is, this bill does not help that situation, it only makes it worse. This bill pretends schools can afford to pay more, ignores the reality of the shortage, of the state’s failure in its obligation, and simply pretends it can be dealt with by ordering schools to spend money they don’t have.

    There’s a big difference between how much you value something or someone, and how much you can actually afford to pay. This bill doesn’t make the money appear, it just requires it to be spent.

    This bill won’t change anyone’s Monday about entering the occupation. This won’t create an influx of teachers. It will however create cuts and cost some teachers their jobs, along with creating more pressure on property taxes. That’s not spin, that’s not an outside uninformed opinion, that’s reality. This is a campaign bill. Because it sounds good in one or two sentences in a mailer. If the public is uninformed enough to think their school is undervaluing teachers and piling up money, too bad for them. You know better. Anyone who puts the least amount of thought into this topic knows better. Anyone who’s bothered to look at their school’s budget knows better. It is awful policy.


  59. - Em - Friday, Sep 28, 18 @ 4:04 pm:

    Not sure how decision became Monday… Autocorrect


  60. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 28, 18 @ 4:05 pm:

    ===You already seem intent on telling me how to spend money with this bill, which should be a decision made by the board.===

    If you don’t think teachers earn their money just say so, and be happy with what teachers you can get.

    ===Again, I don’t want the state to be making the decisions about local spending, and no school board in this state wants that, nor do they want this bill.===

    Then you should be against property tax relief that must include ending prevailing wage and collective bargaining.

    ===This bill won’t change anyone’s Monday about entering the occupation. This won’t create an influx of teachers.===

    What do you base this on?

    Facts not “stories” please. Cites preferibly.

    Not once did you say put pressure on Springfield to pay more.

    That’s odd.

    Most school board members, that’s their first beef, and their second is how Rauner with no budget for two years starved their school district’s budget.

    Why aren’t you?

    Interesting.


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