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Question of the day

Thursday, Jan 30, 2020 - Posted by Rich Miller

* From the governor’s State of the State address

Those who would shout doom and gloom might be loud – using social media bots and paid hacks to advance their false notions – but they are not many. You see, we’re wresting the public conversation in Illinois back from people concerned with one thing and one thing only — predicting total disaster, spending hundreds of millions of dollars promoting it, and then doing everything in their power to make it happen.

I’m here to tell the carnival barkers, the doomsayers, the paid professional critics – the State of our State is growing stronger each day.

* The Question: Can he succeed in “wresting the public conversation” back? Make sure to explain your answer. Thanks.

       

75 Comments
  1. - AlfondoGonz - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:14 pm:

    No. Trump’s uneducated dismiss anything and everything other than Trump’s lies. With nearly half the county and 2/5 of the state conned beyond repair and retained only by fear and distortion, I don’t see how any reasonable person can wrestle them back towards reality.


  2. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:16 pm:

    I hope so, and he has the resources to at least offer a compelling counter-narrative against the IPI/Tribune/nihilists.

    When did we become such a bunch of bed-wetters that we cower in the face of adversity? Illinois has some serious challenges to face, but it’s not like we’re at war. We simply need to pay back what we’ve borrowed from pensioners. That would be easier if on-going and necessary government functions were free from corruption and provided as efficiently as possible.

    It’s not rocket science. Throwing up our hands and moaning isn’t going to get it done. If that strategy worked, the Tribune wouldn’t be on the brink of collapse.

    I think Illinoisans recognize that the mess is bad, but also that Illinois is worth fighting for. I think Governor Pritzker’s optimism is precisely what we need.


  3. - Will Caskey - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:17 pm:

    No. The Overton Window is not a thing; it’s a rationalization of a meta-conversation. Also, the pitch and volume of moaning about The Disaster doesn’t change over time, or between jurisdictions. It’s pretty constant, because it’s the first logical step after “I don’t want to pay taxes,” namely, paying taxes is bad, so whatever’s going on making me pay them is bad. It makes absolutely no difference whether there’s a cartoonish billing backlog and structural deficit.

    It’s not a thing that changes one way or another. It’s just there, and sometimes voter behavior aligns with it for external reasons, and sometimes it doesn’t.


  4. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:18 pm:

    Yep.

    The Governor is $5 million in just on the progressive tax amendment. Ken Dunkin’s patron, Todd Maisch, is playing catch-up on that single front.

    With super majorities in both chambers, not a single Raunerite holding a statewide office, tough to find a viable counter argumentOR… ‘cept maybe the Tribune, which, hourly seems to be on watch if they’ll even exist.

    Now would be the time for the Governor to tamp down and silence these charlatans and phonies, they lack the resources and vessels to make hay, and the Governor can move forward in a positive light (for a change) and keep the positive rolling.

    With DCFS, IDOC, maybe IDOT with all the Sandoval fallout still to be seen, and the need for a pension discussion outside the Edgar Ramp and property tax relief, the proactive way(s) this Governor can message, this Governor should then use his means to do so… which could very will dictate the new narratives and bury the phonies his predecessor embraced.


  5. - OOO - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:19 pm:

    Maybe. There is so much ammunition to use…corruption, pensions, crime, outmigration, DCFS, treatment services for the disabled, property taxes, home values, etc.

    Until the Governor and the Democratic majorities get serious about solving the state’s major problems, and then actually solve them, the celebrations and self-congratulation over relatively minor accomplishments (minimum wage, cannabis, gaming, and even the capital bill) are always going to be easy to drown out, especially for regular citizens who feel like government is working for them.


  6. - OOO - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:20 pm:

    sorry…isn’t working for them.


  7. - 588-2300 - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:22 pm:

    The public conversation about Illinois is largely regarding public corruption and its consequences. So unless he is willing to demand Madigan’s resignation, implement actual ethics reform, etc., it’s just going to be the same old business and the same old conversation.


  8. - Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:29 pm:

    No. While the messenger is optimistic. Poor and middle class families have no relief in site when property tax bills come due, its time to fill the gas tank, and time to renew license plates. All the progressive tax increases in the world won’t ease the pain.


  9. - Try-4-Truth - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:33 pm:

    To the question.. Yes, I believe that the Governor can…

    If this state can stop obsessing over Speaker Madigan and start understanding that he will work with you if you know how, our state will move forward exponentially.

    Change the subject away from Madigan and a new conversation can be had.


  10. - Charlie Brown - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:35 pm:

    === wresting ===

    A little more attention to detail would help.

    Good grief.


  11. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:38 pm:

    Yes or maybe. Pritzker was overwhelmingly elected. Many want to see him do just what he’s done. Because the state is in such bad shape, it’s naturally hard to shift opinion away from that. But he started moving in the right direction.

    The doomsayers, at least the professional ones, represent a shrinking GOP base, whose ideas of government austerity, low taxes for the rich, marijuana prohibition, etc, are stale. They’re not “change” people.


  12. - Give Me A Break - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:38 pm:

    It will take more than a couple of years to change the narrative.

    Last week while at a social event the subject of Illinois govt came up. I was reminded how old I am when several “twenty somethings” were shocked to hear the GOP controlled Illinois gvt for almost 30 years.

    They have been fed a steady diet of Rod, PQ and Madigan for so long they have no understanding of the years of Big Jim, Edgar and Ryan and their issues with scandals and even raising taxes. They really do think the state is going down the drain all because of the Democrats and the GOP have never had anything to do with raising taxes or ethical issues.

    Like I said, it will take a while.


  13. - Under Further Review - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:39 pm:

    The Governor’s positive perspective is refreshing and I highly encourage him to continue.

    The larger question as it relates to social media goes way beyond the Illinois discussion. It is as if the nuttiest element on every front has found the key and they are out.

    Heretofore, these folks wouldn’t have had a forum as saying outlandish things and spewing venom 24/7 wouldn’t have had a wide audience as it was socially absurd.

    Now, the cost of entry for fringe elements to be loud and obnoxious is nothing. This, combined with a huge percentage of the public not even trying to access objective news reporting and the total collapse of print media is a perfect storm for the ill informed and men spirited to flourish.


  14. - Dictionary - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:43 pm:

    ====
    === wresting ===

    A little more attention to detail would help.

    Good grief.
    ===

    Wrest is a verb that is used correctly in that sentence. It is the root word that “wrestle” is based off.


  15. - Upon Further Review - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:45 pm:

    should be “mean spirited” at 12:39z


  16. - Pundent - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:47 pm:

    I would say that the chances of accomplishing this at the state level are far greater than they are nationally. The ILGOP is rudderless and underfunded. To the extent there is any cohesive messaging from the party its directed to what has narrowly been defined as the “base”. You have to be in complete lockstep with the President regardless of the facts, issues, or the consequences. The message plays to a shrinking population of the state. It doesn’t speak to Illinois as a whole.

    In many respects Pritzker has already wrestled back the public conversation. For the first time in a long time government is working again. I don’t always agree with what he’s done, but so far he’s accomplished what he said he would.


  17. - Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:47 pm:

    It’s wonderful to read comments like’uneducated’ ,’ill-informed’,’mean spirited’, when a person disagrees on the methods needed to dig Illinois out of its financial death spiral. Quite Don Lemonlike.


  18. - A Jack - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:51 pm:

    Yes, I think the naysayers are going to lose out. The gloom and doomer’s job is much harder now that some of their elected officials are no longer in office and intentionally gumming up the works. As long as Illinois stays on its current path, we will climb out of debt.


  19. - don the legend - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:52 pm:

    Charlie Brown. I’m no linguist but what is your problem with the word wresting?


  20. - Almost the weekend - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:52 pm:

    I think he cann, but it’s a little hard more complicated than just saying look at Chicago. He needs to point to Rivian in Normal. And other success in separate media markets. Also policies and legislation that he thinks will help turn other parts of the state around. It’s amazing how Rauner was able to bash this state while he was governor. I’ve never seen that before.


  21. - Demoralized - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 12:55 pm:

    ==when a person disagrees on the methods==

    This isn’t a person disagreeing on methods. These are people who bad mouth the state 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. These are people who like to shout at the wind just to hear themselves talk. These are professional naysayers.

    To the post:

    I think he can start to change the narrative if only because we don’t have a Chief Executive Officer of the state running it down. He’s been successful in his first year in office and has legitimately good things to point to having been accomplished. Based on his State of the State, if he succeeds in some of those things he’ll have more ammunition to shout down the naysayers and their gloom and doom.


  22. - Maryjane - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:08 pm:

    Oops. The above @1:05 was mine. I forgot to put my name on.


  23. - AlfondoGonz - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:08 pm:

    To Blue Dog Dem

    As soon as you folks offer your “methods needed to dig Illinois out of its financial death spiral” instead of incessantly whining and dog whistling past the graveyard, I’ll be happy to revise my comments.


  24. - Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:09 pm:

    Honestly, changing the narrative does only that. Paying bills, paying down the pension debt, lowering our staggering property tax burden and stopping our population losses is the only thing that matters in the long run.


  25. - Downstate - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:11 pm:

    Perceptions vs. reality is always the challenge. I dined recently with 5 business owners/managers who collectively employ over 2,500 employees across the swath of Illinois. The firms were everything from manufacturing to financial services. Three of the five are wanting to expand their businesses. For 2 of the 3 expansions, IDOT’s slow or no response to requests are their biggest frustration. One of the manufacturers is looking to buy a firm in Georgia, rather than expand here. In the past, IDOT and the state took more than 18 months to make a decision, delaying the expansions. As two of the managers mentioned, “our industry is changing so rapidly, we can no longer afford to wait on the state of Illinois time schedule, particularly when other states can respond in weeks, rather than years.”

    It’s not about changing the conversation. It’s about changing the culture.


  26. - Pundent - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:17 pm:

    =when a person disagrees on the methods=

    Democracy demands a health discussion on the methods needed to solve our complex problems. But it also requires that those methods and discussions are rooted in facts. Denying facts or somehow arguing that alternative facts have merit will always invite ridicule.


  27. - Ed Equity - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:20 pm:

    No, not without results in the rearview mirror. When pension liabilities skyrocket, taxes rise, and no end in sight, Illinoisans have learned to distrust government. Real results, real funded pensions in the public unions (like the private unions have much better achieved) and lowered taxes are the only way this can happen. And then ask yourself if that is possible.


  28. - illinifan - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:21 pm:

    I think he can over time. The trash talk has helped build where we are today. Rebranding takes time and consistency. It will also help if steps continue to be taken to address debt, property taxes and ethics.


  29. - Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:25 pm:

    Pundent. Fact. I think 21% of the revenue generated from the new gas tax is going to unnecessary projects. Fact. I think we are spending too much money on K-12. Fact. I think we can shutter one, maybe two struggling state colleges. This makes me uneducated? Ill informed? Mean spirited?


  30. - revvedup - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:29 pm:

    Gov. Pritzker is still running straight uphill; he must change State government culture (Downstate’s comment at 1:11pm is spot on) of delay, denial, incompetence, and payola to convince the masses that Illinois is worth fighting for. He cannot convince the GOP itself, but may reach GOP moderates who abandoned the party itself. But for many of us it’s too late to fight what still is often a losing battle when other states have things far more together.


  31. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:30 pm:

    === unnecessary projects===

    Example? Also indicate where “21%” comes into play.

    Thanks.

    === I think we are spending too much money on K-12. Fact.===

    Narrator: that’s an opinion.

    === Fact. I think we can shutter one, maybe two struggling state colleges.===

    Which towns are you going to implode? You wanna tell those legislators too?

    === This makes me uneducated? Ill informed? Mean spirited?===

    Nah, maybe it makes your opinionated trolling tiresome, weak, and silly… but that too could be an opinion one has too.


  32. - Demoralized - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:31 pm:

    == I think 21% of the revenue==

    That’s pretty specific. I’d love to see your math on that one.

    ==is going to unnecessary projects==

    One person’s opinion. I’m sure those that are getting the benefits of those projects would disagree. Also, you are aware of the state of the state’s infrasturcture are you not?

    ==we are spending too much money on K-12==

    Said nobody ever.

    ==I think we can shutter one, maybe two struggling state colleges==

    Because?

    ==This makes me uneducated? Ill informed? Mean spirited?==

    No, not necessarily.


  33. - Pundent - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:32 pm:

    Blue Dog Dem - Maybe when you can replace what you think with what can be proven you’ll be taken a bit more seriously.

    And BTW, the other reality that you need to confront is the political one. The political argument that we’re spending too much on roads and education and need to close two state colleges is a losing one. Do you really think that neglecting our roads and education is the key to stopping our population losses?


  34. - cdog - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:32 pm:

    No.

    1. He can’t control the slow drip of the federal investigations which are proving correct those that warned of fraud. drip drip drip

    2. The pattern in Illinois is to overspend, advertise fake efficiencies which never materialize, and act surprised when actual spending exceeds actual revenue. This attitude doesn’t scale well and common sense people know this is an unsustainable disaster.

    3. His premise is wrong. He says those “predicting” disaster. Disaster is here. The fact that $45Billion (state/fed sources) is not enough to run this state, and that more money is needed, with nearly zero discussion of cost-cutting and aggressive reforms, is a disaster.

    4. Pritzker has lost moral authority with many folks due to his personal tax avoidance actions. Unrecoverable.

    There are millions in Illinois that realize what is unfolding here, regardless of the messaging of “paid critics.” Getting loud about perceived scapegoats won’t help because the core facts are not on Pritzker’s side.

    Thank goodness the barkers and doomsayers are exposing why Illinois is so much more ill than other states.


  35. - Nick Name - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:33 pm:

    Yes. Just by not saying “but Madigan” or issuing meaningless word salads day in, day out, he’s already made big strides in that direction.


  36. - Under Further Review - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:35 pm:

    =It’s wonderful to read comments like’uneducated’ ,’ill-informed’,’mean spirited’, when a person disagrees on the methods needed to dig Illinois out of its financial death spiral. Quite Don Lemonlike=

    This isn’t a partisan commentary. The new left is most certainly included with the alt-right on this front. Even the non-political commentary on Facebook and Twitter is heavily slanted towards the uber-negative, 24/7 complaining, somebody else is responsible for my life being bad diatribe.

    Go spend a half an hour on purely random posts on Facebook and report back that posts are not ill conceived and mean spirited. Is that even open for debate at this juncture?


  37. - Demoralized - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:36 pm:

    ==to convince the masses==

    That’s the sort of hyperbole he’s talking about.

    ==But for many of us it’s too late to fight==

    That’s fine. I would encourage you to leave and the reason I always say that to people who seem to be in doom and gloom mode is that life is too short to be unhappy. I’m being sincere and not snarky. I have no ill feelings. If I were unhappy I would try to do the same thing.


  38. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:39 pm:

    ===… convince the masses…===

    The governor won by 16 points.

    It’s not the convincing. It’s the drowning out the negative, the naysayers, that will continue that type of spread with the failed Raunerites.


  39. - Demoralized - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:48 pm:

    ==The fact that $45 Billion (state/fed sources) is not enough to run this state,==

    Did you have a number in mind that is what is needed? You must have some number in mind with an expenditure plan to back it up since you think $45 billion is too much. We’ll be waiting.


  40. - dbk - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 1:48 pm:

    I think he can, yes, but it’s going to take more than one man - even a competent, engaged, non-corrupt, progressive governor - to accomplish: to paraphrase what Pres. Johnson said to MLK re: Civil Rights/Voting Rights Act, “Go out and make me do it.” That means everybody as I understand it.

    There are some really great grassroots organizations right now - if CEJA passes, it’s going to be in part due to citizen activism. And many, many others. Not lobbyists, grassroots - and my sense is that JB is listening.

    I think JB is laying the foundations for an Illinois renaissance: the capitol bill - Rebuild Illinois - Illinois Works will create and support 500,000 jobs (as per SOTS address). That’s huge, really. And the CEJA will similarly create many thousands of new, 21st-century jobs (est. investment of $30+ bn as per their fact sheet). That’s people working good jobs and simultaneously building the state’s 21st century infrastructure – a very sophisticated and advanced infrastructure when you include energy and tech (high-speed Internet everywhere in the state; collaboration of UoI/UC in quantum computing).

    Re: the FAIR tax and its opponents. I find it hard to comprehend why some here complain about other flat taxes and yet argue that we should retain the income tax as is - it’s the biggest regressive tax possible, period.

    Re: the pension liabilities debt: JB inherited this intractable problem and he (and the GA) will have to confront it - but wouldn’t it be preferable to do so once per capita income has risen by $5,000 and the FAIR tax is filling state coffers? Will it be solved in his first term? No, of course not, and we shouldn’t expect so - but we absolutely should demand that he confront it eventually.

    Each of us has their own concerns which weren’t addressed - my own involve DCFS, environmental pollution-degradation, industrial farming (btw, the dicamba case is being litigated in Mo - MCIR is all over it and the testimony of Monsanto/Bayer executives is truly mind-boggling), high-speed rail, etc.

    Can JB win the trust of downstate, in particular the Eastern Bloc? A lot of time will need to be spent there (and not just by JB – he needs people on the ground and engaged with locals on an ongoing basis).

    I think the CEJA will pass; I think the FAIR tax will pass; I think something will come out of the ethics reform effort. That would make 2020 another very good year for JB - and for Illinois.


  41. - Red Ranger - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 2:03 pm:

    Im sure the Cook County property owners that received their tax bill about 24 hours before the Governor made that statement were thinking the same thing.


  42. - @misterjayem - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 2:03 pm:

    ‘Can he succeed in “wresting the public conversation” back?’

    Maybe, but it won’t come cheap.

    – MrJM


  43. - 4 percent - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 2:05 pm:

    The Governor can duck and dodge but hyperbole will not solve the pension crisis that deepens every day. He’s an optimistic guy and does a good job of selling the state, but until they address pensions for real, it is a Sword of Damocles threatening those under it.

    Illinois has both a perception problem (improving) and a real problem (not improving).


  44. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 2:36 pm:

    We’d be deluding ourselves to think Illinois is in good shape. Still, the professional Illinois bashers have done quite well here—exceptionally well, in the case of the former governor, who made hundreds of millions of dollars in Illinois, just while he was governor.

    As far as feelings, what is it that many Trump supporters say, again?……Oh yeah, “[expletive] your feelings.” Please, don’t pretend to be offended when the president you worship and so many of his supporters are so mean-spirited.


  45. - Iron Lady - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 2:37 pm:

    dbk- Well said.


  46. - Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 2:45 pm:

    Grandson. Exactly the dialogue needed to help solve the states problems. Maybe when you’re vacationing at the new lounge in Springfield, you and some buds can come up with some ideas on retiring some pension debt or reducing property tax burden on the poor.


  47. - Lester Holt’s Mustache - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 2:56 pm:

    Better question is, “does he even have to?” Why should JB spend his time worrying about what people like Jeanne Ives or Rep. Bailey say? They didn’t vote for him, aren’t going to vote for him, and wouldn’t vote for him even if he did somehow magically make the pension debt and bill backlog vanish. dbk states “ Can JB win the trust of downstate, in particular the Eastern Bloc?”. Why in the world would would JB want to win the trust of the eastern bloc? To do so, he’s have to leave the dem party and go full MAGA. They proved with Rauner that they don’t actually care about the health of Illinois government, so why bother making the effort? JB just needs to keep chipping away at the state’s problems, rely on the 65% of Illinoisans who vote dem, and let those other fools rant and rave to the empty cornfields.


  48. - Heyseed - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 3:00 pm:

    Pretty tough to wrest the conversation away from the self-evident facts. Ignoring the problems won’t make them go away.


  49. - SSL - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 3:13 pm:

    JB has it all wrong. These aren’t people shouting doom and gloom. They’ve simply mastered the art of observation. He needs to stop with the Jedi mind control routine. Him saying Illinois is great doesn’t make it so. It’s messed up, big time. And if people keep voting with their feet, he won’t be able to fix it.

    I know that it doesn’t seem like it’s a tough place to live for a guy worth $3.4B, but he doesn’t exactly represent the average guy, now does he.

    I don’t know that many people heard or read his speech, must less believed everything he said. There are a lot of dissatisfied, unhappy customers JB.


  50. - Demoralized - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 3:20 pm:

    ==Him saying Illinois is great doesn’t make it so.==

    And people saying Illinois is bad doesn’t make it so. See how that works?

    ==I know that it doesn’t seem like it’s a tough place to live for a guy worth $3.4B,==

    It’s not a tough place for this guy who is just a regular middle class guy.

    ==There are a lot of dissatisfied, unhappy customers==

    More hyperoble. If you don’t like it leave. If all some of you want to do is whine and moan and complain then cut bait and head out.


  51. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 3:25 pm:

    ===“ does he even have to?”===

    Not really.

    The doomsayers and such are the same “in-law” relatives you avoid like the plague because they complain, whine, moan, tell you “in x months, I’m outta here”

    You avoid them, and they find you. You just want them to leave already.

    The complainers are the last to fix things, constitutionally, and within the political parameters allowable.

    The same folks, like Todd Maisch who chooses to support Ken Dunkin than the people of Illinois.

    Same folks.

    If you don’t know who that “in-law” relative is that the family avoids as you tout Trump’s racism but see it as “economic growth” it’s probably you if you’re the one squeaking “I can’t wait to leave”.

    Odds are they’re waiting for you to leave the conversation you cornered us in, let alone leave the state, LOL


  52. - Pundent - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 3:27 pm:

    =you and some buds can come up with some ideas on retiring some pension debt or reducing property tax burden on the poor.=

    Here’s a few things that will help the poor. Pass a fair tax so we can pay down our pension debt and fund needed social services. Raise the minimum wage so people don’t have to live at or near the poverty level (reducing the need for social services). Adequately fund K-12 education to reduce the local property tax burden.

    You know, all the things you’re opposed to that actually help the poor.


  53. - West Side the Best Side - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 3:29 pm:

    It’s tough wrestling the public conversation back from people who get their talking points from anti-social media. Unlike the old Chicago City News Bureau which would advise cub reporters “If your mother says she loves you, check it out” there are no such constraints on what appears on Facebook, etc.


  54. - All This - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 3:29 pm:

    == So unless he is willing to demand Madigan’s resignation==
    Governors can’t demand the resignation of a GA member. The GA member doesn’t work for the governor.


  55. - Maryjane - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 3:29 pm:

    A rhetorical question: How come so many people are moaning about people leaving the state when, in my experience at least, no one, at all, whatsoever in any stretch of the imagination, welcomes even tepidly, those who arrive enthusiastic and optimistic about their new state? Umm…


  56. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 3:30 pm:

    “Maybe when you’re vacationing at the new lounge in Springfield, you and some buds can come up with some ideas on retiring some pension debt or reducing property burden on the poor.”

    My flower friends and I may or may not get inspired in the Springfield marijuana lounge, but there’s already a plan to begin lowering the poor’s tax burden and paying down pension debt: the Fair Tax. It’s such a great plan, the best plan, and will generate so much revenue, maybe more than anybody’s ever seen.

    There are no panaceas for our problems, but taxing the rich more, ballpark to neighbors Iowa, Wisconsin and Minnesota, is the fairest and best proposal. Some want to cut the poor and middle class. Some are positively gleeful about it. What kind of people get so much joy at the thought of cutting social programs and stripping union rights? In Illinois, their numbers are shrinking.


  57. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 3:32 pm:

    ===So unless he is willing to demand Madigan’s resignation===

    Bruce is back!


  58. - Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 3:40 pm:

    Pundent. If I must repeat myself for you. If we raise income taxes and lower property taxes(local control I know) by an equal amount. This is a good thing. If we use progressive tax proceeds to pay down pension debt at a faster pace than the ramp forces us to. This is a good thing. Raising taxes and increasing spending on new things. This is a bad thing. Raising minimum wage is a good thing but won’t reduce what we spend on social services. If I can get these assurances from JB. This would be a good thing.


  59. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 3:41 pm:

    Demoralized, Illinois is a laughingstock, not because anyone says so, but because it’s true. Worst fiscal state in the union, worst population trends in the union and the worst corruption record in the union. Yeah, the last one is based on governors that have done time.

    See how that works?


  60. - SSL - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 3:42 pm:

    3:41 was me.


  61. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 3:43 pm:

    === If I must repeat myself for you. If we raise income taxes and lower property taxes(local control I know) by an equal amount. This is a good thing.===

    Explain;

    Renters.

    Property tax differences, by county

    Farm land versus housing.

    Commercial real estate versus corporate taxes paid to Illinois.

    Simple solutions are neither.


  62. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 3:46 pm:

    === If I must repeat myself for you. If we raise income taxes and lower property taxes(local control I know) by an equal amount. This is a good thing.===

    If it were easy, it would’ve been done already.

    === Illinois is a laughingstock, not because anyone says so, but because it’s true. Worst fiscal state in the union, worst population trends in the union and the worst corruption record in the union. Yeah, the last one is based on governors that have done time.===

    “Uncle Johnny, I need some more ice, did you see Suzy just came in, go say hello to her, I’ll catch you later”


  63. - Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 3:59 pm:

    OW. Obviously there is no simple solution are somebody would have proposed it. Passing the progressive tax and spending the money without property tax reform also is not the solution. But sending additional k-12 revenue back on a per/student basis with mandates on local property tax reductions(voter approval needed because I believe in democratic principles) seems fair to me and eliminates all the social equity and needs based political arm wrestling that goes on. My three children all live in the state. From Chicago to Waterloo. The thing they dread the most is opening up their property tax bills. I know they are not alone. I don’t care how local assessors,counties, school district s and taxing bodies adjust their levies, bottom line IMO, property taxes have to go down.

    If we can’t reduce spending, then additional(new) revenue must be redirected.


  64. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 4:04 pm:

    Not one legislator is going to vote to reduce K-12 spending, let alone 60 and 30, no Governor is going to be the governor touting a decrease in K-12 spending, no matter the property tax relief.

    Folks who rent send kids to school too.


  65. - Downstate - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 4:04 pm:

    OW,
    If raising income taxes on the highest earners is the optimal solution for the state, why don’t we help Chicago out of their financial morass by allowing them to implement a city income tax on the wealthiest there?

    Wouldn’t that be a great test of the theorem, while potentially helping them out of the financial debacle they find themselves in?


  66. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 4:06 pm:

    It’s been pointed out $30 billion in taxes and such for schools.

    The constitution stipulates its own school funding precursor.

    Have at it, with the local taxes in the mix too.


  67. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 4:08 pm:

    === If raising income taxes on the highest earners is the optimal solution for the state, why don’t we help Chicago out of their financial morass by allowing them to implement a city income tax on the wealthiest there?===

    Why won’t 51st state folks sponsor a bill saying as such?

    Where are those downstate Raunerites getting their monies?

    === Wouldn’t that be a great test of the theorem, while potentially helping them out of the financial debacle they find themselves in?===

    Run it by the Hateful Eight.


  68. - theCardinal - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 4:11 pm:

    To the question: He can, there are a lot of obstacles (not perhaps not of his making) but exist none the less. Pensions, budget short falls, gov corruption, education spending the exodus to name a few. The nay sayers are not going to just wander off into the woods mumbling to themselves.


  69. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 4:17 pm:

    I come at school finding this way;

    If the total cost, today, for schools to educate as they have budgeted, is $30 billion, and property tax relief is the goal at the end while still fully funding K-12, and tackle the pensions and consolidation, it would be best to try to show first consolidation matters, and where it’s not reasonable, it’s not happening.

    How do phase in this hit, and it’s gonna be hit, economically and budgetarily. Uniformly matrix out property taxes, then give relief, then realize the shortfalls.

    This isn’t a “back of a napkin Big Jim Thompson“ cakewalk.


  70. - Lester Holt’s Mustache - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 4:27 pm:

    == The nay sayers are not going to just wander off into the woods mumbling to themselves.==

    No, but they may as well be doing exactly that. They gripe, they moan, they don’t offer solutions. But at the end of the day, they’re really only convincing one another with the doomsday talk. Despite all of the problems Illinois has, and despite these folks blaming dems alone for every single one of those problems, the dems still win every election.

    Also, I don’t know who Maryjane is talking to, but I greet all new residents that I meet enthusiastically :)


  71. - Pundent - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 4:29 pm:

    =If raising income taxes on the highest earners is the optimal solution for the state=

    I’m wouldn’t argue that this is or isn’t the most optimal solution. But it is the solution that’s being proposed and that the governor was able to successfully run on.

    In the last 5 or so years we’ve had two visions advanced by our governors. One called for stripping union rights and depriving the state of a budget. The other calls for a progressive income tax.

    While neither approach may be optimal, one has proven disastrous.


  72. - 17% Solution - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 5:32 pm:

    ==why don’t we help Chicago out of their financial morass by allowing them to implement a city income tax on the wealthiest there?==
    The only person running for mayor who supported a city income tax, Bill Daley, failed miserably. So I doubt Chicagoans would support the idea.
    But if it’s any consolation, under the Fair Tax Chicagoans would pay more since there are more rich people there.


  73. - Southwest Sider - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 5:53 pm:

    Some of this news is coming from out of state sources, who look at our finances… And constantly seeing our State ranked at the bottom. That’s not made up propaganda. I do appreciate his efforts at changing the narrative.


  74. - Blue Dog Dem - Thursday, Jan 30, 20 @ 6:06 pm:

    St. Louis has a city earnings tax. When put to a revote a few years back they voted overwhelmingly to keep it in place.


  75. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Friday, Jan 31, 20 @ 6:11 am:

    == in my experience at least, no one, at all, whatsoever in any stretch of the imagination, welcomes even tepidly, those who arrive enthusiastic and optimistic about their new state?==
    That hasn’t been my experience.


Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


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