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Question of the day

Wednesday, May 27, 2020

* Brenden Moore at the SJ-R

The Springfield Police Department has issued a cease-and-desist notice to a local restaurant that opened for dine-in service in defiance of Gov. JB Pritzker’s stay-at-home order. […]

[Springfield Police Chief Kenny Winslow] said law enforcement often gets caught in the middle when seeking to enforce orders while understanding the struggle people are going through.

“We all empathize with the small business and the struggles that they are going through right now,” Winslow said. “But on the other hand, how do you treat somebody different from those who are compliant and doing the right thing versus somebody who’s openly defiant? … We get caught in the middle … we’ve gotten called by employees. … We’ve gotten calls by competitors. We’ve gotten called by the state. So everybody has an opinion on this … and again, we’re not the jury on these. We’re not the judge on these. We simply just forward that information to the appropriate (agencies) and they can take whatever enforcement action they choose to take.”

Emphasis added because this is something that’s often lost in the media circus surrounding the violators. Law-abiding competitors are often the ones lodging complaints.

* Meanwhile, this is from that NPR story we discussed yesterday

Eating indoors at a restaurant: medium to high risk

Indoor dining “is still amongst the riskier things you can do,” [Dr. Emily Landon, a hospital epidemiologist and infectious diseases specialist at University of Chicago Medicine] warns. The trouble is, says [Dr. William Miller, an epidemiologist at Ohio State University], “people tend to linger in restaurants. So even if spacing is OK, the duration of exposure is longer.” Also, he says, talking “appears to lead to some release of the virus.”

[Dr. Abraar Karan, a physician and public health researcher at Harvard Medical School] notes that one outbreak in Guangzhou, China, took place in a restaurant with no windows and poor ventilation, and the air conditioning appears to have blown droplets between tables.

What alters risk? [Dr. Andrew Janowski, a pediatric infectious diseases expert at Washington University in St. Louis] says the risk level depends on how well the restaurant has adapted for the pandemic. Eateries should reduce and space out seating, require servers to wear masks and offer easy access to hand-washing stations.

They should also provide single-use options for condiments so you don’t have to touch shared ones, says Janowski. And they should close all self-serve areas like soda fountains or buffet tables.

If you do go to a restaurant, look for outdoor seating. Landon says she would go with only members of her household, because “I don’t want to have to take my mask off in the close proximity of a bunch of other people.”

* The Question: Do you plan to eat outdoors at a restaurant after your region enters Phase 3 (most likely this Friday)? Explain.

- Posted by Rich Miller        

  1. - Amos Moses - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 12:49 pm:

    Definitely. I’m ready and not afraid.

  2. - tea_and_honey - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 12:53 pm:

    I don’t like eating outdoors period. It’s usually too buggy or too breezy. I’ll stick to carry out.

  3. - Live Wire - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 12:54 pm:

    I will wait to see how this plays out before going out to eat.

  4. - Papa2008 - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 12:55 pm:

    Nope. Not worth the risk. However large/small. Carry out and carry home. And my wife is a great cook!

  5. - Nick - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 12:55 pm:

    It might depend on how busy the outdoor space is, but I would like to.

    The good news is that the evidence I think is that outbreaks related to the outdoors are pretty rare versus confined indoor spaces.

    But even then, probably not very often, or maybe only once or twice for the entire month.

  6. - Cheryl44 - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 12:55 pm:

    Nope, not yet. I’m in Chicago so I don’t know when that’s going to happen here, but I don’t plan on doing so for a while.

  7. - Back to the Future - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 12:55 pm:

    Nervous about it, but will probably eat outdoors at a restaurant in the next two weeks.
    I will wash my hands, social distance and wear a mask to and from the restaurant.
    Really not interested in some protest gathering with some goof, but I have been walking outside now that we have good weather.

  8. - Sterling - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 12:56 pm:

    Eating? No.

    Drinking in a beer garden? Absolutely.

  9. - Anon221 - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 12:56 pm:

    Nope. Didn’t before the pandemic, don’t intend to now. I’ll just do carry out or drive thru if I feel the need to escape the home kitchen.

  10. - Responsa - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 12:57 pm:

    Yes. Will probably start with restaurants from where we have already been safely and successfully obtaining carry out meals over the past months. I get and respect that some people are just more open than others to take this baby step but we have discussed it and we are ready as soon as the option becomes “legal” and available.

  11. - Annon3 - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 12:58 pm:

    Probably if the tables are far enough apart but most likely sticking to carry out.

  12. - Precinct Captain - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:02 pm:

    Absolutely not

  13. - Candy Dogood - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:02 pm:

    Nope. I don’t think that social distancing strategies in my community will be taken seriously by other people in my community.

  14. - Wylie Coyote - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:03 pm:

    I’ve gt reservations for Friday night. Also saw the big top go up at Brickhouse and Westwoods. Hope everyone respects each other and the DUI laws! It’s not like stumbling from the recliner to the bed!

  15. - cermak_rd - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:03 pm:

    Probably not. I enjoy take away and delivery so will continue to do that. If I want to eat outside, I have a nice setup in my own back yard.

  16. - Just Me 2 - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:03 pm:

    Nope. Absolutely not. I’m fact am less likely to order food to go since now I know there will be a revolving door of strangers constantly interacting with the staff.

  17. - Wensicia - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:04 pm:

    I don’t want to go any place where I would have to take my mask off; outside in my yard, yes, but nowhere else at this time. Carry-out is the only (mostly) safe option at this point.

  18. - Donnie Elgin - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:04 pm:

    Yes - I’ll take extra hand sanitizer and wipe down the table - but I say bon appetit

  19. - Chatham Resident - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:05 pm:

    No. I prefer eating inside in climate-controlled situations. Even before the pandemic.

    And I am also opposed to the idea of public streets downtown (paid with our MFT dollars) being closed off to accomodate outdoor seating. The Decatur City Council last night allowed for restaurants to apply for downtown seating permits:

    There’s been talk about Springfield proposing something similar.

  20. - TinyDancer(FKASue) - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:06 pm:

    Nope. At least not at first.
    I love outdoor dining, but I’m going to wait and see how this plays out.
    How do you eat while wearing a mask? If someone who’s infected sneezes (even if they’re sitting 6 feet away) and you’re sitting there for an hour or more…that’s it.

  21. - Jose Abreu's Next Homer - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:06 pm:

    Most likely not, but I won’t say absolutely not. I’d be surprised if I did. It’s not a matter of being afraid but the risks still exist so I’d rather stay close to home.

  22. - Fav Human - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:07 pm:

    Yes, I also went to WI last week and dined inside. It was after 1, so I basically dined alone, but I was inside.

  23. - efudd - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:07 pm:


    If I want to eat outside while fighting the bugs I’ll do it on my deck, and save money.

  24. - North Side Guy - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:07 pm:

    Yeah, I do. I won’t be doing it all the time, but it’ll be nice to eat/drink outdoors in the summer with friends.

  25. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:08 pm:

    ===How do you eat while wearing a mask?===

    Get a face shield.

  26. - thoughts matter - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:08 pm:

    Probably not this weekend as there will be crowds. Yes, in a few days after scoping out the seating arrangements and crowd size. Limited number of restaurants I will feel comfortable at. Local, not in the big city.

  27. - Tim - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:09 pm:

    No, I do not. I believe proprietors will do their best to comply with state regulations, but I do not believe customers will be polite, and staff will not be proactive about enforcement.

  28. - Res Melius - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:09 pm:

    Not planning to until see what happens next month or so. My wife and have fixed almost 100% of our meals at home since early March. It’s really been a great way to expand our talents. Still, we are tempted.

  29. - In 630 - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:10 pm:

    outdoor dining will fit into our dining out pattern (every 2-3 weeks) from the before times, as long as it’s not too hot for my sweaty self. How supportive a place has been of good behavior and the community will be a factor in where our business goes.

  30. - Flapdoodle - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:10 pm:

    Had a conversation on this topic yesterday evening that included several pub/restaurant/coffee shop owners. They report receiving a modest number of inquiries from longtime customers, but no guidance from local city government regarding permissibility of outside seating and set up. Only two owners definitely intend to open, pending that local guidance, and both said they will do social media pushes telling customers that reservations are required in order to eliminate any wait lines. None of them really know what to expect, though I suspect one of them will do pretty well.

    As for me, I’m not ready for this yet and it’s likely to be a while. But I do like the idea of take-out Mexican with take-out margaritas (maybe a lot of those) on the porch at home.

  31. - JoanP - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:12 pm:

    Being able to eat outdoors is one of the things I love about summer.

    So I probably will. But WHERE I do so will depend on whether the restaurant is following the guidelines - how much space is between tables, are staff wearing masked, are they using single-serve condiments and disposable flatware? And it also depends on how much I can trust the restaurant do be doing the right things in the back of the house as well. That means I likely won’t be going anywhere I haven’t been before (and not all of those places, either).

  32. - Langhorne - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:13 pm:

    I will give them a little while to settle into a routine. Stop by for a drink, and if the practices seem appropriate and low risk, then I might go ahead and order food. This would only be at a small number of places that I frequented before, not sports bars or busy pubs with a young clientele.

    I have been doing carry out usually twice a week. And over tipping substantially, to try and help out the staff. Don’t forget the kitchen. They also appreciate a tip. Or you might at least buy a beer.

    Although proprietors might be afraid to attempt it, I would have no problem with a modest surcharge to help cover costs and losses due to the virus. Maybe three dollars, or five dollars, per person per visit.

  33. - TheInvisibleMan - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:14 pm:

    I’ve noticed my habits changing over the past few weeks, for the better.

    Not being able to eat out has caused me to discover a love of cooking that I never knew I had.

    Sorry restaurants, I’ve become more self-sufficient and it’s incredibly rewarding, not to mention healthy. I won’t be coming back ever.

  34. - Last Bull Moose - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:17 pm:

    No Too risky for this household.

  35. - Red Ketcher - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:18 pm:

    NO Simple Risk/Reward analysis NO

  36. - @misterjayem - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:19 pm:

    “Do you plan to eat outdoors at a restaurant after your region enters Phase 3?”

    No. Doesn’t pass my personal risk/benefit analysis.

    – MrJM

  37. - Ray del Camino - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:22 pm:

    I was a cook and server for many years. What I learned is that lots of customers are inconsiderate jerks. I don’t worry about the good people on the staff. I’ll wait for the novelty to die down.

  38. - Louis G Atsaves - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:22 pm:

    I will be dining outdoors this weekend, on my backyard patio.

  39. - FormerParatrooper - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:23 pm:

    I didn’t before the pandemic and don’t see that changing. When I eat outdoors it is near the grill or smoker, not a sidewalk with gawkers.

  40. - Mama - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:24 pm:

    I will eat at the restaurant that I have already safely obtained carry out meals over the past months if they space their tables out more.

  41. - Been There - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:24 pm:

    I won’t right away. Especially not on the first weekend. I like going out but not big on places too crowded. I prefer to go out on off nights earlier in the week anyway. I went to a place in Indiana last week on an off night. I was getting carry out and there were only two tables with people. They opened the previous week and they said they were filled. So I will wait until everyone gets it out of their system. But it was nice to have a beer in a bar while I was waiting for my food.

  42. - Mama - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:29 pm:

    == Langhorne - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:13 pm:

    Although proprietors might be afraid to attempt it, I would have no problem with a modest surcharge to help cover costs and losses due to the virus. Maybe three dollars, or five dollars, per person per visit.==

    That is a great idea!

  43. - Rachel - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:31 pm:

    Unfortunately, no. Maybe if some of the drugs currently being tested work out and lower the death rate. Right now the risk is still much too high for me.

  44. - QC Man - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:31 pm:

    Not going to restaurants in Iowa as they are open, and won’t in Illinois either for a while.

  45. - Joe Bidenopolous - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:32 pm:

    =the big top=

    As in, a big tent? Defeats the purpose of outside I think, but ok

    To the question:

    Not any time soon.WeI’ll have to see how it plays out in Chicago. Probably will when we go to the lake in July, but that’s simply because one of our favorite places is taking great precautions - seating spaced 10 feet apart, reservations only, 90-minute limit and they use the 30 minutes after to sanitize everything you touched.

  46. - Beecher - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:34 pm:

    I will wait until July to see how things play out in June.

  47. - Froganon - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:38 pm:

    Not likely, we’re in the high risk population. We’ll continue to order carry-out, cook and use our own patio. I’m tempted as sitting outside with drinks, a leisurely meal and friends is one of my favorite summer pastimes.

  48. - Amalia - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:39 pm:


  49. - DownstateR - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:40 pm:

    I doubt it; I’m not into eating outdoors.

  50. - Montrose - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:45 pm:

    A big, well spaced beer garden might get me in for drink on a beautiful day, but I think that’s it for me for the next few months.

  51. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:48 pm:

    Not at first. Like so many, I’ve been out to eat a zillion times. Don’t feel like I’m missing anything by being cautious.

  52. - DuPAge Moderate - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:52 pm:

    For sure. I’d do most anything outside. Would go to a ballpark if it were open.

    Inside? No chance.

  53. - Nobody - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 1:56 pm:

    No. I am dismayed by the number of people defying the mask order during my rare ventures to stores for essential items. I’m sure many of them will be the first ones frequenting the out side dining restaurants. Don’t want to be in same space as them. Will continue to support restaurants by ordering carry out and curbside and tipping generously but if will be quite a while before I venture inside or on site dining.

  54. - RuralKing - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 2:01 pm:

    Absolutely, but will probably wait a few days for the rush to subside…can’t wait to support those local business owners

  55. - Rudy’s teeth - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 2:07 pm:

    Social distancing and the Viagra Triangle are mutually exclusive. Might take a walk down there for eyewitness reporting purposes.

    No food, no beverages. Research only.

  56. - Commonsense in Illinois - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 2:07 pm:

    I’ll probably scope out the facilities and see if the precautions being taken helps my confidence or lowers my confidence that I’ll be relatively safe.

    If I’m confident, I’ll likely enjoy dining outside.

  57. - Annonin - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 2:08 pm:

    “Law-abiding competitors are often the ones lodging complaints.”

    OFTEN? How about Always? Who else really cares

  58. - Powdered Whig - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 2:11 pm:

    No. We are pretty content eating at home everyday and it has been healthier for us. Might consider ordering delivery or takeout if we are feeling really lazy.

  59. - West Sider - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 2:20 pm:

    Heck No.

    Running off to Wisconsin or eating out here in June, brings to mind the two assistants who attempt to rob Indiana Jones in the opening sequence of Raiders of the Lost Arc. GO right ahead- I’ll be here at home.

  60. - Chicken Bristle - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 2:22 pm:

    Sorry for the meme, but some of you all have never went barefoot or played in the dirt, and it shows. Do you bathe in bleach after returning from a caviar and wine run…how does that work ?

  61. - RIJ - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 2:25 pm:

    Absolutely not. My wife has a genetic heart disease.

  62. - thunderspirit - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 2:33 pm:

    No. I’m not a big fan of eating outdoors anyway.

    We’ll continue to try and support our local eateries with carry out/delivery.

  63. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 2:34 pm:

    ===Who else really cares ===

    Employees worried about being forced back to work against the order

  64. - SSL - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 2:38 pm:

    I’ve never been comfortable eating at outdoor restsurants. Eating a hotdog while walking down the fairway, sure.

  65. - Lurker - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 2:41 pm:

    Made reservations for engrained Friday. More for the brewery but I’ll eat too.

  66. - Monadnock Pigeon - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 2:45 pm:

    ==Nope. I don’t think that social distancing strategies in my community will be taken seriously by other people in my community.==

    Hard no. For this reason.

  67. - Pundent - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 2:46 pm:

    There’s still a lot that we don’t know about this virus and it seems to change regularly. It’s probably safe to eat at an outdoor restaurant but why chance it? I get takeout periodically but don’t feel that I’ve been deprived in anyway by not being able to go to a restaurant.

  68. - Nick Name - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 3:05 pm:

    No. It will be a while before I go to any restaurant.

  69. - Huh? - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 3:11 pm:

    “some of you all have never went barefoot or played in the dirt”

    Do it whenever I can.

    To the post, don’t plan to frequent restaurants or beauty salons in near future. Will wait until there is evidence that the down trends are continuing.

  70. - Nick Name - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 3:23 pm:

    ===some of you all have never went barefoot or played in the dirt, and it shows. Do you bathe in bleach after returning from a caviar and wine run…how does that work ?===

    What a throughly asinine thing to say. It’s people like you who get other people killed. Maybe you should back away from the Fox News campfire and learn dome facts about how highly contagious this virus is.

  71. - Jibba - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 3:50 pm:

    Nope. May start to carry out later in June if the numbers still look good, but I’m not holding my breath given the bad behavior shown by the minority who don’t mind risking the health of others.

  72. - Rockids - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 4:04 pm:

    I am not a fan of outdoor dining but am very excited to eat somewhere other than in my home or back patio. As long as the precautions are in place, I will do it.

  73. - Norseman - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 4:07 pm:

    No. The GOP disinformation campaign has been too effective. While outdoor eating may not be as risky as indoor, I balance that against what I view as an increased risk of eating by people who reject social distancing measures.

  74. - MyTwoCents - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 4:19 pm:

    First of all, I do find it interesting that the chief said they’ve also gotten complaints from employees. Secondly, absolutely not. Not because of COVID, because IL in summer is not a state that is conducive to eating outside.

  75. - zatoichi - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 4:24 pm:

    Carryout has been just fine and the backyard grill has two containers of gas waiting. No rush.

  76. - Bemused - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 4:35 pm:

    Probably not dining out real soon. I think the saying is, The early bird may get the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese.

  77. - Bruce (no not him) - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 4:51 pm:

    Not because of the covid-19. This time of year, too many biting gnats and mosquitos.
    No problem getting carry-out and eating at home.

  78. - JDuc - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 4:51 pm:

    Nope. Way too early for me. I’ve been in Wisconsin through all of this and we are “open” here. I’m not going to restaurants here or in Illinois.

  79. - Hieronymus - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 4:56 pm:

    No. At present, my family has absolutely no intention to voluntarily congregate at _any_ public place, especially at restaurant, even if outdoor seating is (only) available.


    We can control our own behavior but not that of others; therefore, we will avoid putting ourselves into harm’s way until such time as an effective treatment or vaccine becomes available.

    Because my other household members are either very elderly or subject to routine, severe respiratory infections, we have limited our out-of-the-house excursions to walking around the block (with our masks on), roughly weekly drives through the countryside, grocery/drug stores, necessary medical appointments, the post office or to curbside pickup/carryout for restaurant meals or other items.

    Furthermore, for those restaurants where we do avail ourselves of their carryout offerings, should they open up in a way that we determine is risky, then we will cease patronizing them completely until this COVID business is all over.

  80. - JoanP - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 5:10 pm:

    RE: the suggestion of a surcharge

    Some places are already doing that:

  81. - CG - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 5:26 pm:

    Not now. Maybe, if the weather plays nice and the numbers of COVID-19 continue to go down, in July. Also, as a woman with shoulder length hair, I just intend to let my hair grow a little longer and not get my haircut until at least end of July. I feel bad for restaurants and will continue to order carryout and contribute to their GoFundMe accounts to support their workers, but I simply am not willing to take the health risk at this point.

  82. - XonXoff - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 7:35 pm:

    Nah. I have a tendency to sneeze this time of year anyway and sometimes just from bright sunlight. I’ll spare brave patrons the concern and we’ll enjoy our outdoor dining at home where I’ll only scare the birds, dogs and horses.

  83. - Really - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 8:18 pm:

    Nope. Carryout or eating at home will have to do.

  84. - bogey golfer - Wednesday, May 27, 20 @ 9:00 pm:

    Not this weekend, but later in June definitely.

Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.

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