59 Comments - Morelight - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 10:57 am: So will trial lawyers be suing teachers if teachers pass COVID to students? Ugh. - TheInvisibleMan - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 10:59 am: Note the D202 proposal is just that. A proposal. It will not be voted on by the board until next week. - A - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 11:01 am: From a legal perspective I’m hoping school districts could not be subject to lawsuits should a student become infected. If not legally protected schools (us; the taxpayers) are about to get sued into oblivion. - @misterjayem - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 11:04 am: “So will trial lawyers be suing teachers if teachers pass COVID to students?” *Districts* not teachers. No attorney worth their salt has ever mistaken a teacher for a deep-pocketed defendant. – MrJM - Bob Loblaw - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 11:05 am: New cases March 20th, when we closed schools = 163 New cases yesterday, amid discussions of reopening schools= 1,187 My kids had a runny nose and fever of 100.5 over the weekend. Daycare and Summer Camp require 72 hours of no fever without medication before returning. Couldn’t get either kid tested because we can’t identify a COVID contact. Youngest went back to daycare yesterday. Oldest is still home today. - DuPage Saint - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 11:07 am: Where is this money coming from? Collar county real estate taxes cannot go up much more. Perhaps it is now time to rethink school funding and school districts. Trite as saying is but is a new normal out there Consolidate districts sports supposedly was a big reason not to consolidate now no sports. - Shemp - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 11:09 am: Do we care about science or fear? “A commentary published in the journal Pediatrics, the official peer-reviewed journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, concludes that children infrequently transmit Covid-19 to each other or to adults and that many schools, provided they follow appropriate social distancing guidelines and take into account rates of transmission in their community, can and should reopen in the fall.” https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200710100934.htm - Last Bull Moose - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 11:14 am: I spent 3rd and 4th grade learning in a trailer. Were I on the school board, I would be getting bids. I am hearing little about protective gear for teachers. I would be ordering good masks, face shields, and gloves. If cammo body armor protected against Covid, downstate would have this whipped. Face masks are not macho enough. - Lynn S. - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 11:18 am: Given some of the behaviors I’ve observed, even before the bars re-opened, I’m not convinced that the U of I will make it to October 15, without a huge wave of trouble. I’m not convinced K-12 will get beyond November this year. We may need to think about flipping our schedules, and having classes April 15 to November 20, just to avoid winter cold and flu season. This virus has laid bare a lot of problems, and education is one of the places that’s going to need a serious re-think. I would argue for grade levels being determined by student’s mastery of the content laid out for that level. Which means we also need to change our high school graduation age from 18 to something more like 19 years and 364 days, or possibly even 20 or 21. Some kids can blaze through by 16, send them on to apprenticeships or college. Others need more time to master the things we consider “basic”. I’ll never forget one of the saddest expulsion hearings I attended as a school board member. Child had moved down here from Chicago Public Schools around age 12 or 13, and we never got their records from CPS. Child had some issues and admitted they had blown off their first two years of high school, failed something like 2/3rds or more of their classes. Child decided to get their $&+@ together at start of junior year, and started putting effort into their classes. It was now senior year, Child had something like 10 credits, and had been diligently working with our credit recovery system to finish class work and earn more credits. Child got into a fight on school bus or at bus stop one day, and fight was severe enough that Child would be getting a one year expulsion, which also meant Child would lose access to credit recovery. Because of a mix of factors–month Child was born and time within school year fight occurred–Child would not earn sufficient credits from credit recovery to graduate high school before 19th birthday. We had to expell Child, who, because of state law, would not be allowed to access the classes Child desired to earn credits. State law made this Child ineligible for a high school diploma, even though Child was regretful of fight and willing to do all of the work needed. I think this Child will haunt me for the rest of my life. All because of an arbitrary age cutoff codified by our legislature. - Lemonaid - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 11:19 am: Please tell me I’m dreaming? If not, is Gov Newsom going to shut it down? “School officials in Orange County, California, won’t require students to socially distance or wear face masks this fall” https://www.cbsnews.com/news/orange-county-california-school-reopening-no-masks-social-distancing-requirements/ - #5 - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 11:19 am: “Do we care about science of fear?” https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/507442-almost-one-third-of-florida-children-tested-are I care about keeping people alive. The children aren’t the only ones with whom we need to be concerned. “Infrequent” transmissions still lead to death for some. - 1st Ward - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 11:20 am: “I’m hoping the school districts could not be subject to lawsuits” The R’s in Washington want lawsuit protection for businesses in the next bill. Schools should be included in this as well. However, the D’s should ensure language is included that lawsuits can happen if the business/school district are “reasonably” negligible in not abiding by state/local guidelines i.e. masks/capacity restrictions/etc. I’m not sure what consequences JB would actually apply to school districts if not followed. Even if there is the dumb school district(s) that act like nothing is going on is he really going to cut their funding? Can he shut-down a school via executive order and force e-learning? The latter would make sense but unsure of legality given home rule. - 44th - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 11:28 am: Doctor friend whose son is in CPS, said that 60% of the students never participated once the schools went virtual. Its going to be hard to open, but wasn’t their a big fight about all the extra space in teh schools? Extra space may come in handy. In any event we should be prepared that if 60% of the kids essentially dont go to school they may never return and what will they do with their time? will turn into a major problem. - 1st Ward - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 11:39 am: @44th McCormick Place and other large unused venues should be turned into schools for CPS during this time. I saw the article you reference which was disturbing along with the 10,000+ kids that didn’t have IPad’s or a laptop to even participate in e-learning. Not to mention the thousands that didn’t have internet at home. - Leading InDecatur - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 11:47 am: The participation rates and student engagement was abysmal almost wholly because ISBE declared no students grades could be harmed. Students who were passing the day before remote learning started knew they did not have to do anything to retain their grade. That means the 30-40% that DID participate did it for love of learning, love of teachers, to not fall behind—basically, for all the right reasons. That should be celebrated! In the future, ISBE, has indicated that grades WILL be counted when learning remotely. No remote attendance, no completed assignments— no credit, no diploma. Remote teaching going forward will be much better. - Lucky Pierre - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 11:51 am: Listen to the pediatricians and scientists, not the teacher’s unions, trial lawyers and politicians. - @misterjayem - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 11:57 am: ““A commentary published in the journal Pediatrics, the official peer-reviewed journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, concludes that children infrequently transmit Covid-19 to each other or to adults and that many schools, provided they follow appropriate social distancing guidelines and take into account rates of transmission in their community, can and should reopen in the fall.” And the question remains: Do we believe that students will “follow appropriate social distancing guidelines” upon returning to school. Having been and known children, I’m doubtful. – MrJM - Shemp - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 12:02 pm: ===I care about keeping people alive. The children aren’t the only ones with whom we need to be concerned. “Infrequent” transmissions still lead to death for some.=== But they still aren’t dying. Transmission and positivity don’t equal death when it comes to kids. But we should ignore facts I guess. - Moe Berg - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 12:03 pm: Nothing is going to work - schools, universities, professional sports, indoor dining/drinking, theaters, bowling alleys, etc. - until the virus is controlled on a national basis. Don’t care how sophisticated and well-thought out the plans may be. We have ample evidence this is the case - pro athletes infected, summer camps, high school sports summer programs, cases traced to bars and so on. All energies should be focused on demanding a coordinated national plan. Otherwise, in a few months, we’ll find ourselves with no national plan, all the local efforts having failed, and in an even worse spot economically and health wise. Awful to accept in the wealthiest country in the world. Kids should be in school. Stop trying to build igloos in hell. - very old soil - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 12:05 pm: Shemp From the link by #5. Aside from the staggering figure indicating the transmission of the virus, health experts fear it can cause potential lifelong damage in children. Alina Alonso, the health department director of Palm Beach County, reportedly told county commissioners on Tuesday that the long-term consequences of coronavirus in children are unknown. - Not a Billionaire - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 12:10 pm: What Moe said but we know there is no hope of that until Nov. So close the bars indoor limit people coming to office. And schools online. - Sheri - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 12:10 pm: Unsafe working conditions, increased children, teacher, administrators, parents and guardians getting sick and dying from a virus we don’t know a lot about, school lawsuits, different classroom education back to school plans in adjoining school districts, labor shortages, no parent consensus or buy in, no federal state or regional coordination over local districts, graded classrooms (meaning failures and kids being held back), playing politics with statistics, science and medical advice, class room mask battles and the potential for uneven mask enforcement in classrooms and school districts. With all of these known issues, why isn’t anyone proposing a statewide “gap year” where the State pays for child care and enrichment courses in 2020-21 instead of trying to jam a round peg into a square hole when we already know that our prospects for successfully educating children - rather than socially promoting them - are already extremely low? - Cheryl44 - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 12:13 pm: Spoke with a friend who teaches in a southwest suburban district. She has no idea what the plan is for August. If her kids were done with college she would just tell her district she wouldn’t be going back. This is a woman who loves teaching but is not happy with her current position. - 1st Ward - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 12:17 pm: “But they still aren’t dying. Transmission and positivity don’t equal death when it comes to kids. But we should ignore facts I guess.” But they are having lung and neurological damage among other side-effects effects that we don’t fully understand yet….. Do better than saying children aren’t dead. - Friend of the Family - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 12:18 pm: @MoeBerg, something worked. Since we are informed that massive protests and street gatherings did not lead to any increase in COVID, why can’t schools find out what the protesters did, before, during and after protests to prevent infecting others. It worked for them, and some of those events were very large gatherings where people were in close contact. - dbk - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 12:20 pm: Yep, what Moe Berg said times ten. And then what Not a Billionaire said times ten. There will be no nationally-coordinated policy this year, which will once again leave states on their own to manage the response. Also: states like ours are going to suffer the consequences of being surrounded by neighboring states which haven’t learned the lessons taught on Day One of Epidemiology 101. - 1st Ward - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 12:22 pm: “But they still aren’t dying. Transmission and positivity don’t equal death when it comes to kids. But we should ignore facts I guess.” Lung and neurological damage are ok for kids since it doesn’t kill them….. Seriously? That’s ignoring facts? - M - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 12:40 pm: @Friend of the Family We know what worked. 1) The protest was outside. 2) The vast majority of protestors wore masks during the protest. I can’t say for sure but I would posit that a majority continued to wear their masks when outside their home. Masks work. If we want to even consider opening schools, then masks should not even be a question. Sure we can do some teaching outside but a lot of Illinois schools go back the week of August 10. Temperatures are still hot and we won’t be able to have classes outside. Outside classes are not an option for very long, if at all. - JS Mill - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 12:58 pm: =All because of an arbitrary age cutoff codified by our legislature.= Not sure when that happened, but the laws have changed substantially, specifically for kids that return after dropping out. Students can stay in school until 21. If a student is expelled, we are required to provide educational options, usual alternative school. =Listen to the pediatricians and scientists, not the teacher’s unions, trial lawyers and politicians.= What country are you from? We consider the concerns of all stakeholders. That is how it works. With regard to lawsuits, we (schools) have limited liability. That doesn’t mean someone cannot file, but they won’t be successful if we follow, with reasonable fidelity, the guidance of our regulating bodies schools will be free from issue. Failing to do that will put you ion a jack pot and the Tort levy is uncapped (where these costs are covered). - Friend of the Family - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 1:06 pm: @M, in all seriousness, was it the combination of being outside and masks, or masks in general. I would believe that masks would really reduce the infection rate, and social distancing inside would work well. Some schools are keeping homeroom cohorts together. Options for at home learning should be offered, particularly when kids are quarantined. I think schools should also cancel Fall sports, plan to postpone winter sports until January, and advise people not to travel during the school year. That would go a long way to allowing in person school. - In 630 - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 1:08 pm: I have nothing but compassion for people trying to figure out how to make school work. Working without any model to follow, basically no larger national support, and stuck trying to choose among undesirable paths - Northsider (the original) - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 1:13 pm: Having a difficult time believing that parents who scream about their fundamental rights being trampled upon by mandatory mask rules are going to make their kids wear masks at school. And masks have to be mutual to effectively protect. I’m sure Mr. Devore already has his suit against the school district drawn up. - Moe Berg - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 1:13 pm: @Friend of the Family, @M pretty well answered for me. Appreciate the earnest question and the thoughtful reply. As others on this thread have observed, we are still learning about this virus. Tentatively - prolonged exposure to an infected individual in an indoor space seems to be the greatest risk. Poison is in the dose and we seem more likely to get a higher viral load inside than in the open air. We also know a small percentage of individuals appear to be “super-spreaders.” We don’t yet know why or how to predict who they are. Although it seems bleak right now, it isn’t hopeless. High compliance with mask wearing would go a long way towards bringing the pandemic down to a manageable level. If masks could be depoliticized - and a coalition of Illinois business groups tried to do its part yesterday as Rich detailed - and embraced, we’d be much of the way there. No medical breakthroughs necessary. - Chicago parent - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 1:17 pm: Reopening schools is complicated and remote learning is complicated. Nobody wins. But to assume one is better than the other is inaccurate. Keeping kids at home to learn remotely. They don’t do it. My CPS kindergarten kid had 30 min of instruction per day. The teacher wasn’t even living in Chicago. She was sad, lonely, and definitely not learning. My older kid had a ton of instruction from the teacher every single day, but every chance he got, he would switch to a video game. We had to sit there while he did work. It was painful and nearly impossible to do our own jobs. And what about the parents who have to work outside the home? What do they do? Quit, which affects the economy as well. Of course teachers are afraid of going back. I bet doctors were afraid of working too. I bet grocery store workers are afraid too. So are bus driver, custodians, and all the other people that can’t work from home. The private school teachers that I know recognize the need to make in person instruction happen as safely as possible. I do not know a single CPS teacher who will go back, and they haven’t even heard of the plan yet. Teachers chose a profession where you really can’t work from home. That’s the job, to be in a classroom. It sucks. No one saw this happening. But still, some people have to go back to work. And I think everyone would agree that if it can’t be done safely, then it shouldn’t be. But we are creative people and there can be some solutions, and compromises. - Rdb66 - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 1:27 pm: It was incredibly naive of AAP to roll out its policy recommendations the way it did. I have to think they have political professionals who knew how it would be abused. They should have led with the price tag for safe, partial reopening, set some priorities for types of kids getting in-person schooling, and left it at that. - Wensicia - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 1:29 pm: All of the buildings in my district have closed HVAC systems that recirculate air through the buildings, no open windows. I don’t think they have the ability to filter out what the CDC says is a virus capable of airborne transmission. I’m hoping they’ll hold off in-school instruction until it’s safer, probably by second semester. - Grisham - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 1:34 pm: ==We know what worked. 1) The protest was outside. 2) The vast majority of protestors wore masks during the protest.== They were also adults who could leave the protest any time they felt uncomfortable (either with their mask getting too hot and/or stale or if others around them were not wearing masks) - Justin - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 1:42 pm: “Decisions around how to reopen schools are among the most complex and consequential of the pandemic”https://www.nationalacademies.org/news/2020/07/schools-should-prioritize-reopening-in-fall-2020-especially-for-grades-k-5-while-weighing-risks-and-benefits - ChrisB - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 1:45 pm: Our local school board (Suburban Chicago) had a virtual meeting last night to discuss the results of a recent survey they put out, and to outline the options for the fall. It didn’t exactly inspire confidence, as there were technical difficulties preventing actual school board members from calling in. A quick thinking parent re-broadcast it for those who were blocked by technology. If we’re going to pretend e-learning might work, then school boards really need to show the apps work in a controlled setting before thrusting them upon teachers. It looks like the SB is leaning towards an A/B model; half the kids Mondays and Thursdays, half the kids Tuesdays and Fridays, and alternate on Wednesdays. It’s going to be hell for working parents whose jobs may not be so flexible. An interesting datapoint from last night was that 74% of the district families supported sending the kids back full time. SB said that still wasn’t enough to warrant going back full time, and never outlined exactly what that threshold was. So everything so far remains in limbo, and after they figure it out, we get to do battle with our employers to find a way to balance everything. I hope teachers used their summer to work the kinks out of e-learning, because the spring session was not effective. Second half of 2020 is going to be a blast. - Sheri - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 2:13 pm: Lawyer Hat: I wouldn’t want to be the “test case” school district that does not perfectly follows the Governor’s EO’s and guidance around education, sanitation, safety, masks, distance, etc. Mom Hat: It will create a terrible educational environment and an extremely tense classroom setting if the school district and teachers are expecting nothing less than perfection from all children around education, sanitation, safety, masks, distance, etc. Citizen Hat: I wouldn’t want to be the teacher or administrator that gets caught on video or otherwise violating the Gov’s EOs and guidances on education, sanitation, safety, masks, distance, etc. The call out culture will be absolutely brutal. - Shemp - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 2:30 pm: “What has happened in other countries when students went back to school? Generally speaking, not much.” This is LA Times article is on MSN’s homepage right now. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/will-children-spread-covid-19-if-they-go-back-to-school/ar-BB16PesJ?li=BBnb7Kz So again, I ask, science and stats or fear? - Lynn S. - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 2:30 pm: Hey gang, love everyone here, but… Those who keep saying “put it off until January 2021″: How are we going to do that? Aside from possible new president and Congress Critters, what’s going to change? We all remember the weather here in January, right? 30 degrees in the day, 10 or 15 degrees at night. Snow and ice. People stuck indoors, all the time, especially in buildings with bad ventilation and an airborne virus. Plus colds and flu. (The Atlantic has an article about a double pandemic–flu and Covid-19–that folks might want to take a look at). We have no guarantees that there will be a vaccine. And even if we do, how are we going to manufacture 321 million doses for Americans, plus 7.4 billion for the rest of the world? What if it turns out that the vaccine only protects for 6 months or a year? Then what are we going to do? (I haven’t even touched on how to pay for and vaccinated everyone under the messed-up healthcare system we have here.) I’ve been telling people around me that humanity is (banned word). People are dying with good leadership regarding this. We have a president who seems to be determined to kill and maim as many people as he can. We’re hosed. Normal is not gonna happen for probably 2 or more years. - JoanP - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 2:57 pm: =But they still aren’t dying. Transmission and positivity don’t equal death when it comes to kids.= a) It does for some. b) Even if they don’t die, they can be left will a lot of physical damage. c) What about all the adults in the schools who might be infected? Teachers, bus drivers, janitors, lunch ladies? Do we not care about them? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 3:00 pm: ===But they still aren’t dying. Transmission and positivity don’t equal death when it comes to kids.=== (Sigh) “Dr. Deborah Birx, the response coordinator for the White House coronavirus task force, told a heartbreaking story of her great-grandmother dying from Spanish flu in 1918 as she underscored the need for social distancing. During the 1918 pandemic, Birx’s grandmother came home with the Spanish flu, and ended up passing it on to Birx’s great-grandmother, who had recently given birth. Birx said her grandmother lived with the guilt of this her entire life and “never forgot that she was the child that was in school that innocently brought that flu home.” “It’s very important to me personally. My grandmother, for 88 years, lived with the fact that she was the one at age 11 who brought home flu to her mother…when her mother had just delivered. And her mother succumbed to the great, 1918 flu,” Birx said at the daily White House press briefing on coronavirus.” Stop with it doesn’t effect the kids. - brickle - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 3:00 pm: new daily cases are far too high, test results take far too long, and contact tracing is not nearly where it needs to be. It simply isn’t possible to safely reopen schools at this point. - Mr. Hand - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 3:23 pm: I think there are 2 goals that should drive decision-making. What is the safest possible environment for students? What is best for student’s learning? I do not know if these questions are being considered fully. For the fact if safety is our top priority, then students need to stay home. What evidence suggest that bringing half the kids or only coming on a couple days actually will reduce the spread or keep kids safer? It seems like we are throwing darts. Second, in terms of student learning, most students do not meet or exceed in Math or ELA at the high school level according to the Illinois State Report Card. My point is that traditional methods of schooling have not been overly successful. If we shift the mindset of the situation from a problem to an opportunity, then we can still make learning meaningful for students today. - 1st Ward - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 3:24 pm: “So again, I ask, science and stats or fear?” Lets look at the countries cited in the article: Australia covid deaths - 113 Ireland covid deaths - 1,749 Netherlands covid deaths - 6,135 - Illinois covid deaths - 7,435 Netherlands has ~50% more citizens than Illinois. Netherlands largest city is Amsterdam of 750,000 people (can’t compare to Chicago). All of Europe wears masks. Look at Israel. “Outbreaks in schools had infected at least 1,335 students and 691 staff by Monday since the reopening in early May” https://www.wsj.com/articles/israelis-fear-schools-reopened-too-soon-as-covid-19-cases-climb-11594760001 Troy University reporting an on-campus student death from covid. https://www.cbs42.com/news/troy-student-dies-from-covid-19-complications-university-reports/ But yes lets ignore our own backyard where Lake Zurich High School has an outbreak. So again we must ask what part of science and data do you not understand? - Suburban Mom - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 4:06 pm: we got school reopening plans for one of my children’s schools today, and they’re good plans, but I just about hyperventilated thinking about the risk. I think I have to keep my kids home. Asthma runs in our family. What kind of mother would I be to put my 4-year-old at that kind of risk? Or my developmentally disabled son, who would not understand why he was at the hospital if he got sick? I mean long term my kids are going to be at an educational disadvantage, and my career will never recover, but what other choice do I have? Why am I being asked to gamble with my children’s lives? And my own? - Enviro - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 4:26 pm: Covid-19 is out of control in some parts of Illinois and community spread is now increasing. Until we have control of Covid-19 community spread, schools will not be ready for classroom learning. The schools have had plenty of time to improve virtual learning. They can start with this until the people are on the same page for reducing the spread of Covid-19. - BlueStreet - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 4:47 pm: From an NBC story a few days ago: Experts agreed that most children do not get as sick as adults when infected with the coronavirus and are less likely to transmit the disease. While some said they don’t favor opening schools so soon, all 5 agreed that the benefits of in-person schooling outweigh the risks — but the key is to reopen safely https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/5-pediatricians-on-the-safety-of-schools-amid-pandemic-87569477784 All 5 doctors says they would send their kids to school. One said masks aren’t “useful” for elementary students. Also from the story: “In fact, kids only account for 2% of all cases. doctors say they don’t expect that number to significantly increase when schools open because kids don’t appear to be good at spreading the virus.” Remember, these are 5 top doctors from across the country saying this. - 1st Ward - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 5:11 pm: Update on schools and lawsuit liability. Looks like the R’s in Washington have draft language. Seems fair and reasonable. Can quip with duration. “According to a summary of the liability reform provision reviewed by POLITICO, it would provide temporary protections for schools, colleges, charities, churches, government agencies or businesses from lawsuits because of coronavirus exposure. Those entities would only be liable “if they failed to make reasonable efforts to follow applicable public-health guidelines” or committed “an act of gross negligence.” The provisions are expected to last until 2024, a likely sticking point with Democrats.” https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/16/trump-payroll-tax-cut-coronavirus-relief-bill-366506 - Suburban Mom - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 5:33 pm: “All 5 doctors says they would send their kids to school.” How old are these doctors? Because of all the doctors I know with elementary school aged children, not one is planning on sending a child to school if it’s at all avoidable. Some two-doctor families are having one spouse quit for the duration. You can find doctors to say anything. Survey doctors with children, and find out what they’re doing with their actual children’s lives. Most that I know aren’t gambling with their own kids’ lives because they take Covid and its complications for children too seriously for that. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 5:42 pm: ===All 5 doctors=== Y’all keep looking for your loopholes. - Lynn S. - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 6:18 pm: Let’s look deeper at that proposal, 1st Ward. Churches absolved of liability? No way in Hades (banned punctuation). If the Pope can shut down the Vatican and suspend Sunday Mass, the Protestants and everyone else can figure out ways to meet that comply with public health regulations and don’t put people at risk. Sorry if it impacts the amount on the collection plate…if you’re still upset, remember what Jesus did to the money changers at the Temple. Businesses? I lean towards a hard and firm no. Sympathies to people who own bars, bowling alleys, hair salons, movie theaters. But your right to earn a profit is not guaranteed, and if you’re willing to put your employees at risk to earn a buck, you deserve to get the snot sued out of you. Remember Carnival Cruise lines? Schools, colleges, charities and government agencies? I might agree to some liability limitations for no more than a year or two. There are enough troubles in jails and immigration facilities with healthcare and maintenance of detainees’ health. I could very easily see folks like GEO group or jails and private prisons in the South using that liability waiver as an excuse to provide absolutely no testing or Covid-19 treatment to people assigned to their facilities. If you think people won’t abuse this, may I introduce you to Georgia, where Brian Kemp is prohibiting mask mandates by municipalities? Or Florida, which rushed to “open back up (banned punctuation)”, and has had 77,000 Covid-19 cases in the last seven days? That 4 year window is Mitch McConnell’s attempt to do favors for his in-laws, who own a shipping line, and his donors. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 6:22 pm: === According to a summary of the liability reform provision reviewed by POLITICO, it would provide temporary protections for schools, colleges, charities, churches, government agencies or businesses from lawsuits because of coronavirus exposure.=== Nope. Sorry. No. The administration wants schools open, and unlike the ridiculous rallies where… you sign away liability with a waiver… no, if it’s requiring openings, then there’s a reasonable belief it should be safe… with no waiver of liability. If anyone needs to sign away their rights to go to church, school, to a forced opening, a place that easily is optional or can be done remotely… no waiver… “A waiver”… give me a break… - 1st Ward - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 6:40 pm: Agree we should look deeper at the proposal. If the liability protection is only on the basis of these businesses/churches/schools etc. following state/local health guidelines that seems fair. If these entities don’t follow the guidelines and someone gets sick then yes those entities should get sued. The article alludes to this being the case. The issue becomes not all state/local health guidelines are uniform i.e. State of Georgia’s no mask requirement. A mask requirement and uniform rules at the federal level would be nice….. Obviously we will have to wait until the draft and subsequent mark-up language is released to get a better granular understanding. - BlueStreet - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 6:46 pm: –How old are these doctors? Because of all the doctors I know with elementary school aged children, not one is planning on sending a child to school if it’s at all avoidable. Some two-doctor families are having one spouse quit for the duration.– Does it matter? Clearly, these doctors have children in school. And they are fine with it. The doctors I know are sending their kids. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 6:50 pm: === Clearly, these doctors have children in school. And they are fine with it.=== They have the right to maybe infect their family… lol ===The doctors I know are sending their kids.=== Anecdotal still ain’t factual. When Arkansas and Alabama require masks, even Covidiots need to think about the dangers. - MyTwoCents - Thursday, Jul 16, 20 @ 9:25 pm: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-16/childhood-covid-19-infections-mount-with-schools-eyeing-openings COVID infections in children are the rise, probably because we’re actually testing more. 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