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Push to end car air freshener law

Tuesday, Nov 2, 2021

* I don’t think I even knew this law existed, and hadn’t considered that it could be used as a pretext to pull someone over. Interesting…

Democrat candidate for Secretary of State Alexi Giannoulias and State Rep. LaShawn Ford want to repeal an existing state law, which prohibits hanging items from a vehicle’s rear view mirror that often serve as a pretext for racially motivated traffic stops.

Illinois is one of just a handful of states that ban items from hanging from a vehicle’s rear view mirror or affixed to a windshield on the grounds that they obstruct a motorist’s vision. The current law allows police to stop motorists for minor vehicle code offenses, but in many cases those encounters can lead to verbal or physical confrontations with deadly consequences.

“Amending the current law will result in greater equity on the road and improve relationships between police and community by eliminating discriminatory traffic stops,” said Giannoulias, the former State Treasurer. “Pulling someone over for merely having an air freshener attached to their rear view mirror is not only archaic, it’s ridiculous. Prohibiting traffic stops that encourage discriminatory practices will ultimately make our streets safer for drivers and police officers.”

Representative Ford (D-8) has spearheaded changes in the law and is working with Giannoulias to sponsor legislation in the General Assembly’s spring session that would amend the Illinois Vehicle Code to abolish the air freshener law.

“We need to do everything we can to reduce the need for police interactions with people for non-violent and non-threatening violations,” Ford said. “There is no reason for police to pull over a vehicle just because they have an air freshener on their mirror or for many other minor infractions. Making this change in the law is too important to wait because it’s a safety issue for both the public and law enforcement. Law enforcement is overworked and understaffed. Springfield must use taxpayers’ resources wisely to catch the violent criminals that make all our communities less safe by repealing laws like the air freshener ban.”

Records show that police pull over a disproportionate number of drivers of color for minor traffic violations and result in motorists being unfairly stopped and searched for Driving While Black. Figures released by the state last summer show Black drivers and pedestrians in Illinois are close to three times more likely than whites to be stopped by police.

As part of his campaign, Giannoulias is also working with Representative Ford in seeking to push additional legislation that would curtail the use of pretextual stops for other low-level infractions that have disproportionately targeted Black and Latino motorists.

Other states and municipalities are taking similar action. In October, the Philadelphia City Council passed the Driving Equality Bill with the support of local law enforcement. The new ordinance classifies several offenses — including improperly displayed registration or emission stickers — as “secondary violations” that police cannot use as the sole reason for pulling over motorists. Violators of these infractions would still receive citations, but tickets would be mailed to the driver’s residence instead.

Chicagoan Daunte Wright was killed earlier this year in Minnesota after a police officer mistook her gun for a taser after pulling Wright over for having an air freshener hanging from the rearview mirror of his vehicle. Former Illinois resident Sandra Bland in Texas and Walter Scott in South Carolina each died following encounters with police involving pretextual stops.

Giannoulias and Representative Ford made clear that these efforts would not prohibit law enforcement officers from making legitimate public safety stops, especially in cases of reasonable suspicion or if the driver is suspected in criminal activity.

* There are those who want to end the use of police for traffic stops altogether

On a hot June evening in Berkeley, California, last year, while his groceries sweated on the couch, 24-year-old Darrell Owens sent a tweet that changed his city.

“Traffic enforcement needs to be totally removed from the police …” it began.

Just a few weeks earlier, Owens had watched George Floyd being murdered in an intersection and had joined in the protests. The Berkeley city council had since promised police reform. But Owens, who, at 6 foot 6, is known by one city-council member as the “youngest, tallest, and only Black” regular attendee of transportation-commission meetings, had been stewing on a more specific idea. His Twitter thread laid out his argument for transforming law enforcement by transforming city streets: “I prefer license plate cameras … and mailed tickets over: ‘ok make sure nobody does anything that justifies this cop pumping 4 rounds of lead into me.’”

To his surprise, the city responded. A council member retweeted his thread. A month later, the city council passed “BerkDOT,” a first-in-the-nation measure to shift traffic enforcement to unarmed Department of Transportation workers.

In the summer of 2020, cities across America made similar commitments: to curtail the use of force, shrink police budgets, and fund fleets of civilian officers. But Berkeley was the first to target the traffic cop. By doing so, it is rethinking police power at its root.

Traffic stops are by far the most common reason that police officers initiate contact with members of the public; they account for 84 percent of encounters, according to data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics. In fact, before cars, ordinary citizens rarely came in contact with law enforcement. As we rebuilt cities around the automobile, historians contend, drivers came to expect to be policed. And communities of color have paid the highest price.

In Berkeley, Black drivers are six times as likely to be stopped as white drivers, and four times as likely to be searched. Stops for minor infractions––a broken taillight, speeding––are also more likely to turn deadly for Black and brown drivers, as the deaths of Philando Castile, Sandra Bland, and Daunte Wright illustrated.

* Chicago Ald. Nick Sposato kinda let the cat out of the bag last month

“When you get pulled over, anybody can get out of a ticket. All you have to do is cooperate with the police,” Sposato said. “White people just know how to talk their way out of a ticket. They just cooperate.”

Aside from the shady nature of the companies involved, that’s one reason so many people hate red light and speed cams. They can’t talk their way out of those tickets.

* Related…

* The data doesn’t lie: Traffic stops reveal age-old biases in Chicago policing: In Evanston this week, an advisory panel appointed by Mayor Daniel Biss proposed a prohibition on traffic stops based on equipment, license plate or registration violations, and an end to so-called “consent” searches—instead requiring a warrant or probable cause.

- Posted by Rich Miller        

54 Comments
  1. - Cool Papa Bell - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:32 am:

    =or affixed to a windshield=

    Never considered that my I-Pass would get me pulled over.

    Actually never has… so wonder why/how the law is applied?


  2. - NIU Grad - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:36 am:

    While I can’t stand Sposato, I appreciate that his lack of filter let’s you know exactly what the City Council “Republican Caucus” is thinking.


  3. - OneMan - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:37 am:

    Knew this as a teenager, that is why you didn’t hang the tassel from graduation off of it.

    Taking away traffic enforcement from the cops is an interesting idea. Always wondered how the law-and-order folks would feel about speed cameras everywhere (like they have in Europe).


  4. - Rabid - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:38 am:

    Bring back the feathered roach clips


  5. - Hit the Ground Runnin’ - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:43 am:

    I am not a person of color, but when I was younger and drove beaters, I was pulled over for having an air freshener hanging from my mirror. And from that experience it was clear the cop was not interested in the air freshener but wanted to check for drugs or whatever. I felt then that he was profiling based on class/wealth but I can only imagine what black and brown folks go through when cops use this type of policy to profile and pull people over.


  6. - Wensicia - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:44 am:

    I never knew my staff parking tags were against the law.


  7. - Telly - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:46 am:

    Automated enforcement is the fairest way to address the negative police interaction problem.

    Another race-neutral way to is to enforce expired license plate sticker and other violations is with civilian employees (the equivalent of “meter maids”) writing tickets on parked cars.

    Although, both these methods of enforcement are hugely unpopular with the public.


  8. - Jocko - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:47 am:

    ==All you have to do is cooperate with the police==

    Tell that to Sandra Bland.


  9. - TheInvisibleMan - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:47 am:

    This shines a light on something done by many local areas. It’s laid out clearly in the article and the words chosen, but might be missed on a quick read.

    There are a few ways traffic laws exist. On the state level through laws, as referenced in the first example of Illinois being one of the last states to have such a law. But also through local ordinances, which is referenced a bit later.

    Laws, and ordinances, are two different ways for police to make the same traffic stop. Even if the state law is eliminated, some towns could still create this as an ordinance and it would be just as valid as a state law when in the borders of that town. For example, in some suburban towns, certain cell phone cases are an ordinance violation within the boundaries of the town. That’s enough to lead to a police interaction simply through an ordinance violation.

    Point being, any town can still create a local ordinance which seems innocuous but is designed to target a certain demographic even in the absence of a state law. Many towns have a bizarre complication of local ordinances, and they are almost never repealed which leads to the issue in central Illinois a few years back where the police arrested a kid on an ordinance violation for burning a flag, even though it was unconstitutional to do so.

    Removing the state law is a good idea, as it will at least shine a light on any areas trying to continue this practice through creating or using an existing local ordinance to continue the practice - if anyone is paying attention to those details that is.

    There’s a whole other layer of the law/ordinance issue when it comes to some towns literally duplicating every state law as a local ordinance in order to write the violations as an ordinance violation, to keep any fines collected in the local department, instead of writing them as a state law violation where the fine goes to the state, but that’s a whole other conversation. I’d have to reread it but I think this tactic is being addressed in the new crime bill which takes effect in 2022.


  10. - Don't take on-ramp at 20 mph - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:49 am:

    While I like this practice in theory, I don’t want to get automatically busted for speeding each and every time. Oh sure, you’ll say, “don’t speed.” But I see my every-other-year speeding ticket as a “speeding tax.” My payment for driving safe, but over the speed limit.


  11. - WestBurbs - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:50 am:

    Really intriguing idea to replace traffic stops with broad camera network. The Big Brother aspect bothers me greatly but the racially disproportionate stops are even more troubling. Antectodal data point — I (old, white guy) drive through Austin almost every day (Oak Park to Near North) via North, Division, Augusta, and have for almost 30 years, not stopped once despite regularly exceeding speed limit by a few mph.


  12. - thisjustinagain - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:51 am:

    Items hung from the review mirror can obstruct the driver’s vision and cause a safety hazard (and it’s not just air fresheners; I see people with CDs handing from their rear view mirror). Like that bright shiny surface can’t glare-blind the driver in the right conditions, or block the view as they make a turn? But wokeness overrides ever other legitimate issue now.


  13. - Give Me A Break - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:52 am:

    Sure, tell motorist you can’t hang anything from your mirror due to obstruction issues while at the same time police vehicles have everything from cameras to radar guns hanging on their front windshields. Sounds like a law created to give PD an excuse for stops.


  14. - Flyin' Elvis'-Utah Chapter - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:52 am:

    Obviously not enforced down here.

    Of course, you can have a piece of plastic masquerading as a rear glass and that won’t merit getting pulled over either.


  15. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:54 am:

    ===Items hung from the review mirror can obstruct the driver’s vision and cause a safety hazard===

    Thanks, dad. Now explain why most other states don’t have such a law.


  16. - NonAFSCMEStateEmployeeFromChatham - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:54 am:

    ==I never knew my staff parking tags were against the law.==

    Although it does say “Remove Tag before Driving” I admit that just keep my State employee parking tag on all the time. Unless I’m travelling out of the Springfield/Chatham area.


  17. - Cheryl44 - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 10:54 am:

    A guy I work with started driving to work instead of taking the train (he had a good reason but its too much to get into). For a while he was getting to work late because he was regularly stopped for driving while Black. I don’t know how it got fixed but someone who knew someone got it stopped.


  18. - We'll See - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 11:06 am:

    Wait till I tell granny her disabled parking placard violates the law.


  19. - thoughts matter - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 11:09 am:

    State employee parking tags( at least they are removable, although no one does), I-pass gadget( attached with Velcro - not removed unless needed in a different vehicle. The law is ridiculous and outdated. It’s basically the same as a speed traps If you can’t see through your windshield, it’s not because of hanging a small tag on your mirror. It’s more concerning that the side mirrors and the posts combine to create blind spots big enough to hide cars. I know from experience.


  20. - JoanP - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 11:21 am:

    Not only do the police use that excuse to stop people, it’s also used as an excuse to search. “Air fresheners are used to hide the smell of marijuana.” Heard that all the time.


  21. - TNR - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 11:32 am:

    == “Air fresheners are used to hide the smell of marijuana.” ==

    Always been a farce but now proven wrong. The smell of weed emanating from motor vehicles is becoming as much a part of of the driving experience as turning right on red.


  22. - RNUG - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 11:32 am:

    There are lots of vehicle equipment laws on the books that can be used as legal justification to pull you over.

    Missing front license plate, even if the car doesn’t normally come with a front mount …

    Height of headlight or parking / driving light … a certain GM sport model can always be stopped for this reason

    Amount of window tint … (although this one does have a legit officer safety issue)

    Anything obstructing vision, even a crack in the windshield … (my one classic car could be pulled over anytime; its’ windows are a history of the events it’s been to)

    I could go on, but you get the idea. Heck, there’s always the ‘rolling stop’ where it is the officer’s word against yours. Or the vague ‘distracted driving’.

    That said, most law enforcement tend to ignore this minor stuff unless you do something stupid right in front of them.

    I’m fine with eliminating the hanging object (and a number of other equipment violations) as a legitimate primary reason for a stop. But it should be kept on the books under distraction; I’ve seen crystal hanging from the rear view mirror that would blind you when the sun hits it at just the right angle.


  23. - Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 11:38 am:

    ==When you get pulled over, anybody can get out of a ticket. All you have to do is cooperate with the police.==

    It sure helps to be white. Although, if you are white, you probably won’t get stopped.

    Many years ago, I was stopped on pretext, although the officer never told me what it was. The stop took place at night on an interstate highway somewhere downstate. The officer walked up to my car, and, when he saw I was white, he told me he had thought I was black and then let me go.


  24. - Cops hate traffic stops - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 11:38 am:

    I can play the drive-by game too.

    Tell that to Ella French. Cops hate traffic stops. It’s quite literally the most dangerouss part of their job. No one wants to do it, which is why they (the departments) have quotas. I know quotas are illegal…they still happen. In CPD you hit the quota, they’ll give you 4hrs off the back end, same as recovering a firearm.


  25. - Simply Sayin' - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 11:43 am:

    At least 6 states have such laws (possibly more) have such laws. While the laws do have some validity (large objects do obstruct view), it should, at the very least, be amended to prevent stops only based on this factor.


  26. - SKI - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 11:49 am:

    This was the 1st “extra” traffic law I learned as a teenager which wasn’t taught in Driver’s Ed. I was pulled over a few times for it, along with being in several friend’s cars when they got pulled over for it.

    I can’t vouch for how it’s used against drivers of color, but I saw it used so much against teens that it was the 1st law I taught my daughter and all of her friends.


  27. - Da big bad wolf - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 11:57 am:

    ===I can play the drive-by game too. Tell that to Ella French.==
    The tragic demise of Ms. French is another argument why traffic stops by police are bad. She and her partner were shot by what appears to have been a paranoid and/or mentally unstable passenger. Wouldn’t a photo of the outdated sticker and a ticket in the mail have been better?


  28. - Boomer remover - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 12:01 pm:

    Blame your lawmakers, they put it in the books…

    For your handicap placard folks, jesse gives you instructions when you apply that they placards must come down while driving.

    You ipass folk, it says material obstructs view, unless you put ipads in front of your there’s no violation.

    And sandra bland, tragic, she wasn’t killed by cops.stip


  29. - Anyone Remember - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 12:01 pm:

    Traffic stop data which includes race but not income is not only less than worthless, it is misleading. In Sangamon County poor whites in The Cabbage Patch / north of Clear Lake & west of Dirksen are stopped at a far greater rate than upper-middle class / upper class whites in Leland Grove, Panther Creek, and Piper Glen. While People of Color do suffer from “over policing” so do poor white people. Ignoring poor whites when addressing this issue just makes things worse.


  30. - Red Ketcher - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 12:03 pm:

    Rural IL State’s Attorney Office
    Little Old Lady arrives with Ticket
    She Had a Cross from her Mirror

    Prosecutor is surprised-
    She Wants To Pay Ticket

    But just wanted to point out
    Trooper had a Flag hanging from his mirror.

    Case Dismissed

    ( caused red flags on future tickets )


  31. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 12:10 pm:

    ===Blame your lawmakers, they put it in the books===

    Doubt anyone current was even around then, or not more than a couple.


  32. - H-W - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 12:22 pm:

    In Macomb, hanging air fresheners are the number 1 pretext for pulling over college students, and then performing searches of cars. Police do this a lot, according to students here. If you do not have a taillight out, then an air freshener will do. I often am appalled at just how much effort our city puts into arresting or ticketing students, given the public rhetoric of supporting and caring for students. What we say and what we do clearly differ in this college town.


  33. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 12:43 pm:

    ===“Air fresheners are used to hide the smell of marijuana.”===

    Nothing can hide the smell of marijuana.


  34. - Original Rambler - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 12:51 pm:

    FOP has traditionally fought the transfer of any activity that is currently performed by a uniformed officer (also known as a dues paying member) to a civilian or automated system as it potentially reduces their bargaining unit. See Chicago parking ticket enforcement.


  35. - Person 8 - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 12:54 pm:

    I got pulled over and given a warning about this. I was 100% NOT pulled over because my one green air freshener was obstructing my view while driving straight and at the speed limit.

    I was also pulled over because my “front licenses plate was too low” After tape measure review with the officer, no it wasn’t. (As we stood at the stop light and 10% of the cars that passed didn’t even have a front plate)….


  36. - Candy Dogood - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 1:10 pm:

    ===“White people just know how to talk their way out of a ticket. They just cooperate.”===

    So what you’re saying is cops pull people over for breaking the law and then are so easily manipulated they decide not to car about the law that was being broken? Neat.

    ===Democrat candidate for Secretary of State Alexi Giannoulias […] want to repeal an existing state law===

    This capitol fax story about a private citizen is more likely to cause this law to be repealed than Brolexi Giannoulias struggling to find something to talk about on the campaign trail will.

    John Snow might have been the Prince that was Promised, but Alexi is the Prince that was Never Wanted.


  37. - Suburban Mom - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 1:12 pm:

    Once got stopped driving my fiance’s car that was registered in another state, because it only had a back license plate a new front license plate. The state that the plates were from, and that the car was registered in, only provided back license plates, and no one had a front license plate. I ended up going in absolutely maddening circles with the officers supervisor about it, who basically refused to believe me there are states that don’t have both plates required by law.


  38. - G'Kar - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 1:32 pm:

    Huh? To think for 25+ years and five cars, I’ve been breaking the law with my parking permit.


  39. - Frank talks - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 2:09 pm:

    Damn I thought my fuzzy dice gift for folks would be a hit this holiday?


  40. - thechampaignlife - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 2:27 pm:

    I agree that routine traffic enforcement should be demilitarized to non-armed meter maids.

    I was stopped once in my teens for my UIUC parking tag on the mirror. Easy enough to fix. He also told me that my tow hitch ball blocked the renewal sticker (back when they were centered on the bottom). I asked if I could put the next sticker at the top so it would be visible, but he said no. I asked if there was any option other than removing the ball, he said no. Finally, he wanted to know why the truck with Illinois plates was registered to someone in another state. My parents had moved away and had it registered in their name, but I stayed. He was satisfied, so he let me go without a ticket. Had I been more nervous, less cooperative, or “sketchy” looking, I am sure it would not have gone as well.


  41. - watchdog - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 2:35 pm:

    State legislature should also pass a law to prohibit police in traffic stops from forcing drivers/passengers to get out of the car for no reaason. That is constitutional under the 4th Amendment, but the legislature could end this practice. See: https://www.illinoistimes.com/springfield/letters-to-the-editor-05-06-21/Content?oid=13533892


  42. - watchdog - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 2:37 pm:

    NYT had excellent front page story Sunday of a study they did that over last 5 years police officers killed more than 400 drivers/passengers who were not wielding a gun or knife or under pursuit for a violent crime–a rate of more than 1 per week.


  43. - Occasionally Moderated - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 2:39 pm:

    In 2017 the legislature thought materially obstructing the drivers view of the road while driving was important enough to add the following to existing laws.

    Synopsis As Introduced
    Amends the Illinois Vehicle Code. Provides that no new or used motor vehicle dealer shall permit a driver to drive a motor vehicle offered for sale or lease off the premises where the motor vehicle is being offered for sale or lease, including when the driver is test driving the vehicle, with signs, decals, paperwork, or other material on the front windshield or on the windows immediately adjacent to each side of the driver that would obstruct the driver’s view. Defines “test driving”. Effective January 1, 2018.

    https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts/fulltext.asp?Name=100-0346


  44. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 2:48 pm:

    ===materially obstructing the drivers view===

    You’re comparing those huge dealer price lists with a freaking air freshener? You’re reaching here.


  45. - Occasionally Moderated - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 3:01 pm:

    No- I wasn’t comparing it to an air freshener.

    A material obstruction of the drivers view was already illegal, and they made it what- more illegal?

    Appellate courts have already addressed this, Third District held that the state has to prove that there was a material obstruction and a “little christmas tree” air freshener wasn’t a obstruction.

    The law actually reads:

    (c) No person shall drive a motor vehicle with any objects
    placed or suspended between the driver and the front
    windshield, rear window, side wings or side windows immediately
    adjacent to each side of the driver which materially obstructs
    the driver’s view.

    I think its pretty easily interpreted that a “little christmas tree” doesn’t obstruct the drivers view.

    What was the problem we were solving again?


  46. - obiter dictum - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 4:21 pm:

    Illinois is a “material obstruction” state. A minority position. Many other states have obstruction statutes, but are more of a “bright line” mandating nothing. In Illinois there are cases about fuzzy dice, air fresheners, and beads. i anticipate with the pandemic soon to be “mask” cases.


  47. - Bad Habits - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 4:52 pm:

    Why is black capitalized and brown and white are not when referring to race?


  48. - Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 5:10 pm:

    ==Bad Habits==

    Use a search engine.


  49. - Bad Habits - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 5:17 pm:

    Oh, thanks


  50. - DuPage - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 5:40 pm:

    They should not turn anything over to a “department of revenue” type of enforcement. Their purpose would be to make money, and they would go out and write tickets on a competitive basis, employees being judged by how much money they bring in.
    A better approach would be to write warning tickets with at least 30 days to fix minor equipment problems. Also they should set up programs, similar to the Cook County Sheriff Dept. where police mechanics help motorists repair problems with lights for free. That would go a long way to help police-community relations.


  51. - Been There - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 6:14 pm:

    “Sir I’m going to have to write you a ticket for hanging your handicap parking permit from the mirror”.
    “Sorry officer I hadn’t noticed I was watching my 14” infotainment screen.”


  52. - Keyrock - Tuesday, Nov 2, 21 @ 11:06 pm:

    “All you have to do is cooperate with the police.”

    I was taught this meant you handed over your driver’s license to the CPD officer, with a bill folded around it. Has that custom changed?


  53. - Alice - Wednesday, Nov 3, 21 @ 8:13 am:

    I live in Sposato’s ward. I can confirm that we are never policed here for traffic violations. Everyone knows it so everyone drives like crazy.

    - U-turn out of nowhere, from the right lane, middle of buzy street - normal.
    - Driving into left turning lane on intersection, only to pass traffic from it and drive on straight - normal.
    - Speeding on the side streets, like 90 miles an hour - normal.
    - Recently throwing out garbage thru the passenger window at speed, so it bounces off the windshields of the cars behind - also normal.

    I can go on. Nobody reacts because gun proliferation. And police when called doesn’t come.

    I know the cops don’t come because few years back I witnessed a completely drunk woman driver, hit a parked car, bounce off it and hit another parked car, almost totalling both. I came out from my house, she must not seen me, it was getting dark. I took few photos of her car, with the license #. She staggered a bit very drunk, looked around her car and drove off. I called 911, nobody came to my knowledge. Insurance of one of the damaged car found me later - that’s how I know there was no report. I gave them the photos.

    The point: the police needs to do its job. They don’t. They think policing traffic = harassing minorities. They need to stop that and do their jobs.


  54. - anon2 - Wednesday, Nov 3, 21 @ 2:50 pm:

    Rep. Ford is getting a lot done lately when it comes to progress on racial issues.


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