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ILEPI fires back at Moody’s over its Illinois unionization and “right to work” analysis

Wednesday, Mar 2, 2022 - Posted by Rich Miller

* Background is here if you need it. From the Illinois Economic Policy Institute…

Statement from ILEPI Executive Director Frank Manzo IV on a section of a February 2022 report from Moody’s Analytics on the State of Illinois Economic Forecast pertaining to unions and so-called “right-to-work” policies:

A 2021 study by the Illinois Economic Policy Institute (ILEPI) and the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign shows that Illinois’ economy is significantly better off than states with so-called “right-to-work” laws. Illinois’ workers earn 6% higher incomes, even after accounting for the state’s higher cost-of-living. They are 5% more likely to have health insurance. Fewer Illinois workers are below the poverty line. And Illinois workers are 3% more likely to own their homes, despite facing high property taxes.

While some lobbyists claim that “right-to-work” laws attract businesses, the data tells a different story. First, productivity per worker is 15% higher in Illinois than in so-called “right-to-work” states. Productive workers are good for business. Second, surveys of corporate executives consistently show that “right-to-work” is not a consideration in business location decisions. Moody’s Analytics cites these surveys without noting that “right-to-work” policies do not appear in the Top 10 factors in business location decisions. Accessibility of transportation infrastructure and the availability of skilled labor matter far more. Third, over the decade from 2010 to 2020, the gross domestic product (GDP) of states with “right-to-work” laws grew 3% slower than it did in the states that support workers’ rights to collectively bargain. That’s why West Virginia Governor Jim Justice, a Republican, lamented in 2021: “Really and truly, let’s just be brutally honest. We passed the ‘right-to-work’ law in West Virginia. And we ran to the windows looking to see all the people that were going to come—and they didn’t come.” Passage of “right-to-work” legislation is not a panacea in attracting businesses, jobs, or residents.

Union workers earn higher incomes and spend more money back into the Illinois economy than their nonunion counterparts. Union workers are more likely to have health insurance. They are more likely to own their homes and have higher housing wealth. They produce safer worksites. And they contribute more in taxes while taking less in government assistance programs. Union workers are not a “negative factor,” as Moody’s Analytics suggests. The data are clear: Union workers positively impact the state’s economy.

* From the Moody’s analysis

Unions. Unit labor costs in the state are above the national average, in part because of a still-high presence of unions. The state’s unit labor costs are significantly higher than those of neighboring Indiana but lower than in Michigan and Wisconsin, three states that have adopted right-to-work laws. Under right-to-work laws, employees in unionized workplaces cannot be forced to pay union fees or join unions. Michigan passed a law after a number of businesses, mostly in manufacturing, cited the law as a factor in their decision to locate in Indiana. Less clear are the effects that right-to-work laws have on economic growth. The lack of clarity is mainly due to the fact that union strength is just one factor businesses look at when deciding whether to set up shop or relocate. Energy and other costs also matter, as do a slew of other factors including talent, infrastructure, and access to customers and capital that make it extremely difficult to gauge the precise effects of right-to-work laws on job creation and a state’s economic prosperity.

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64 Comments
  1. - Moe Berg - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 9:13 am:

    Moody’s is a sucker for “trickle down” economics.


  2. - Lucky Pierre - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 9:24 am:

    Second, surveys of corporate executives consistently show that “right-to-work” is not a consideration in business location decisions

    Apparently they forgot to survey Honda, Toyota, VW, Mercedes Benz, Boeing , Apple, etc


  3. - Blake - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 9:25 am:

    Even if RTW helps the economy,it violates enough people’s values to make it unlikely to come to Illinois. The greater economic question is why unit labor cost in IL are worse than IN, but better than WI or MI.


  4. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 9:39 am:

    ==Apparently they forgot to survey Honda, Toyota, VW, Mercedes Benz, Boeing , Apple, etc ==

    Or maybe 6 examples out of all corporations surveyed is a minority opinion. You know what a minority opinion is, right? It’s one that most people disagree with. Another good example is your belief that everyone should take paycuts. Most people disagree, and that’s why your side keeps losing elections.

    BTW, Boeing is headquartered right here in Chicago, and Apple is in sunny Cali-forn-i-a, so I have this funny feeling that they really *don’t* take RTWFL into account when choosing where to site things.


  5. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 9:41 am:

    ==Honda, Toyota, VW, Mercedes Benz==

    And these, btw, are all foreign companies, so your official position is “foreign corporations should get to come in and pay American workers less.”

    Man, sure hope Richard Irvin or Jesse Sullivan or whoever you support this week doesn’t run on that message. As a liberal, I would be so owned if you ran on that message.


  6. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 9:42 am:

    @LP:

    You continue to be selective in what you are reading here. You again forget this statement:

    “The lack of clarity is mainly due to the fact that union strength is just one factor businesses look at when deciding whether to set up shop or relocate. Energy and other costs also matter, as do a slew of other factors including talent, infrastructure, and access to customers and capital that make it extremely difficult to gauge the precise effects of right-to-work laws on job creation and a state’s economic prosperity”

    Again, you’re dishonest.


  7. - Chicago Blue - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 9:44 am:

    @ Lucky Pierre

    Can you remind me which Apple products are made in any US state?


  8. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 9:50 am:

    What’s good about - Lucky Pierre - being consistently dishonest on labor and right to work is that it’s the reminder about the argument;

    The arguments for right to work are dishonest to labor, labor bring the commodity for business, not labor as a movement.

    The goal is to diminish the cost of the commodity (labor) and have that commodity feel “grateful” for the opportunity to earn less, maybe have safety lessened, and diminish benefits or remove benefits entirely… all the whole no collective bargaining at times too.

    It’s always important to be reminded why so much dishonesty to right to work exists.


  9. - One Trick Pony - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 9:51 am:

    Remember Moody’s (and the other ratings agencies for that matter) - These are the groups that rated mortgage-backed securities as AAA in 2007 just before it all collapsed. Yet, no State has ever defaulted in history but they rate us just above junk. Yeah, I just don’t put as much stock in their opinions as I use too.


  10. - Blake - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 9:53 am:

    Arsenal, I wouldn’t. Factories are a clearer way for many to see job options for themselves than corporate headquarters & would rather have the option even if non-union than be denied the option. Also, between factories & headquarters landing one doesn’t come at the expense of landing the other.


  11. - City Zen - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 9:58 am:

    ==“right-to-work” is not a consideration in business location decisions==

    If a business does not consider union affiliation in their decision making process, that means a unionized workforce is also not a consideration. It goes both ways. And citing the higher cost of living and higher property taxes, as well as devoting a lot of words to West Virginia, doesn’t make for a compelling argument either.

    The safety argument is compelling. Stick with that.


  12. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:03 am:

    === The safety argument is compelling. Stick with that.===

    But not compelling enough for your tastes?

    An odd flex…”safety is the right argument, I’m just against that too”


  13. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:03 am:

    We don’t really need to look at studies to see that RTWFL is bad. Those states have been overwhelmingly lower-income, for years, as intended. Average weekly wages are lower for non-union workers year after year. They also tend to have fewer people covered by health insurance. Those are major economic factors. Union contracts give workers other protections as well.

    Unions also clearly benefit POC and women. Raunerites want people, especially those who are economically marginalized, to vote against unionization for themselves, to self-exploit and lower themselves for corporate elites.

    Which Republican will support unions in this election? Or has that party pushed out unions to the point no one will bother trying to win union votes?


  14. - Al - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:08 am:

    Boeing moved their international headquarters to Chicago for better access to capitol markets. They moved non-union attorney type jobs mostly, not a factory of Aerospace union Labor. Apple does not recognize unions in the US, but some in Europe.


  15. - Benjamin - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:11 am:

    It’s pretty clear that Moody’s thinks that, to the extent right-to-work benefits the state’s economy, it’s an extremely modest effect on the whole, and possibly even a net negative. It also seems that we could get the same economic boost in a number of other ways–Moody’s mentions access to talent and capital, for example, which Illinois already has considerable strength in.

    So the upside to going right-to-work would seem to be very small. Meanwhile, the downside–the human toll of workers losing bargaining power in their workplaces–would be considerable for many thousands. It’s clear this isn’t the way to go.


  16. - The Dude Abides - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:17 am:

    When I read the Moody’s article their right wing bias was apparent. They don’t like Unions because they work for the rights of the average working man, not the corporations. They do like right to work( for less pay ) laws though.


  17. - Lucky Pierre - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:20 am:

    Boeing Co said on Thursday it will move the rest of its 787 Dreamliner production to South Carolina in 2021, a cost-cutting strategy that raises questions over the future its giant Everett plant north of Seattle.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/boeing-787/boeing-to-move-787-production-to-south-carolina-in-2021-idUSKBN26N08Y

    Volkswagen workers in Tennessee have twice rejected joining a union

    https://www.npr.org/2019/06/15/733074989/tennessee-workers-reject-union-at-volkswagen-plant-again

    7 out of 10 top states for manufacturing are in fact right to work

    https://www.globaltrademag.com/top-10-states-for-manufacturing-2019

    sadly Illinois does not look competitive in this survey

    https://info.siteselectiongroup.com/blog/best-states-for-manufacturing-in-2021


  18. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:21 am:

    ==Factories are a clearer way for many to see job options for themselves than corporate headquarters & would rather have the option even if non-union than be denied the option.==

    What’s the evidence that people really do take the side of these false binaries that you’re assigning to them?

    ==Also, between factories & headquarters landing one doesn’t come at the expense of landing the other. ==

    Sure, but that’s not an argument for RTWFL.

    ==If a business does not consider union affiliation in their decision making process, that means a unionized workforce is also not a consideration.==

    Exactly. If it doesn’t matter anyway, let’s give the workers more power.


  19. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:22 am:

    ==It’s pretty clear that Moody’s thinks that, to the extent right-to-work benefits the state’s economy, it’s an extremely modest effect on the whole, and possibly even a net negative. ==

    I caught that, too. That passage was hardly Ra Ra Ra for RTWFL. I’m not entirely sure it merited a response, but after the nightmare of the Rauner years, I understand why ILEPI wants to snuff out any hint of a spark.


  20. - Lucky Pierre - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:24 am:

    As part of its commitment to US economic growth, Apple today confirmed that its newly redesigned Mac Pro will be manufactured in Austin, Texas. This latest generation Mac Pro, which was unveiled at Apple’s annual Worldwide Developer Conference in June, will begin production soon at the same Austin facility where Mac Pro has been made since 2013.

    https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/09/apples-new-mac-pro-to-be-made-in-texas/


  21. - City Zen - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:26 am:

    ==”safety is the right argument, I’m just against that too”==

    Never said I was. Employers shouldn’t be taking shortcuts on employee safety regardless of union affiliation. Seems like a solvable problem. Someone wake up OSHA.

    I can see nuance. Both sides have valid points. But there will never be a middle ground because that’s not what we do anymore.


  22. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:28 am:

    ==a cost-cutting strategy==

    You. Want. To. Cut. Wages.

    Stop being a coward and just say that.


  23. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:32 am:

    Honestly, do you guys think it’s new and compelling information that corporations want to pay their workers as little as possible?


  24. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:38 am:

    @LP

    You’re a joke. Have a nice day.


  25. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:39 am:

    ===Stop being a coward and just say that.===

    If one can use the ruse of policy, then a coward they will remain… even if that’s the reality.

    ===I can see nuance.===

    Actually, no, you can’t.

    You’re whole schtick, different then - Lucky Pierre - I grant you, is that labor in of itself hurts, and it should be disbanded, along with pensions in any way that can be accomplished.

    There can’t be a nuance with that want.


  26. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:39 am:

    ==Both sides have valid points.==

    And what exactly is the “valid” point to RTWFL?


  27. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:44 am:

    === And what exactly is the “valid” point to RTWFL?===

    To crush collective bargaining to all - City Zen -wants diminished, making a “both sides” argument… moot.

    You say both sides in this instance to hide the lack of standing in the point you’d like to refute, but can’t.


  28. - Anyone Remember - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:49 am:

    Indiana’s lower cost? Perhaps the horrific Worker’s Comp system they have (been discussed here before). You’re injured at work in Indiana, your choice of a medical provider is Capt. Hawkeye Pierce, they send you to Maj. Frank Burns.


  29. - Blake - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 10:59 am:

    Arsenal, the recent cases of high-profile unionization votes losing are evidence that there are people who see their choices as between a non-union job or the job leaving town. They didn’t vote against unionization out of a desire for their job to be less desirable.


  30. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 11:19 am:

    ==the recent cases of high-profile unionization votes losing are evidence that there are people who see their choices as between a non-union job or the job leaving town==

    It’s not very good evidence. Did people vote for “some job” over “no job”? Or did they vote for “status quo”- or maybe “the devil they know”? Did they vote for “I don’t want to pay union dues”? Did the workers have a personal relationship with management? Did the organizers fail to reach out? Or were the results slanted by management engaging in ULPs and the vote is going to be rerun (that is exactly what’s going to happen in Beesemer, in fact). Besides that last bit, neither one of us knows. But I do know that there’s also been several recent successful union drives (Starbucks, Penn), and that the vast majority of workers in total just never face a unionization vote in the first place. So even if some- how many?- fall for the false binary the corporations try to sell them, they still represent a tiny, tiny fraction of workers, and just because they accepted the lies their bosses told them doesn’t mean I have to, or that we should make public policy based on those lies.


  31. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 11:24 am:

    Also, a vote to unionize is a little diagonal to RTWFL. RTWFL doesn’t outlaw unions, it just drains their coffers.


  32. - Perplexed - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 11:29 am:

    To the assertion (9:51 a.m.) that no state government ever has defaulted on its debt:
    It was a long time ago but eight states — including Illinois — defaulted on their debt in the 1800s. Arkansas was the most recent state to default, in 1933. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_defaults_in_the_United_States

    Meanwhile, on the overarching topic of which states are making their job climates more attractive than Illinois’: Across the Mississippi River in the right-to-work state of Iowa — where population grew almost 5% in the last decade, and where the unemployment rate is 1.2 points lower — The Des Moines Register posted yesterday that:

    “Gov. Kim Reynolds signed a major realignment of Iowa’s tax system into law Tuesday, achieving one of her top legislative priorities in time for a national speech introducing herself to a conservative audience.

    “Over the next few years, the law will lower Iowa’s top income tax rate until all Iowans pay a 3.9% flat tax starting in 2026. Along the way, the measure will eliminate the state’s progressive income tax system, in which wealthier Iowans pay higher rates than lower-income Iowans, and place Iowa among 10 other states with some form of flat income tax.

    “It’s the third major tax cut Reynolds, a Republican, has signed into law as governor, following previous reductions in 2018 and 2021. …

    “The law also makes retirement income like 401(k)s, IRAs and pensions tax free, gives some tax breaks to retiring farmers and cuts the state’s corporate tax rate while reducing the size of some corporate tax credits. …”

    Note that Iowa routinely balances its budgets, and that when Reynolds took office, her state’s progressive income tax topped out at 8.98%. Since then, her state is one of several in the Midwest that have made themselves markedly more attractive to employers.


  33. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 11:32 am:

    ===It was a long time ago but eight states — including Illinois — defaulted on their debt in the 1800s.===

    If you’re coming bak to… 1800s… you have no argument, in fact, you’re admitting you have no argument.


  34. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 11:35 am:

    I dunno if you can call a state “reforming” income tax when taxes for the wealthy are reduced to an eventual flat tax.

    If that’s even remotely honest, The opponents of the Flat Tax here would’ve made a case the flat tax is already “reform”

    They didn’t.


  35. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 11:40 am:

    Illinois doesn’t tax retirement income…

    … although Mike Frerichs wants to discuss taxing retirement income, which “perplexes” me…


  36. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 11:40 am:

    ==I dunno if you can call a state “reforming” income tax when taxes for the wealthy are reduced to an eventual flat tax.==

    I mean, “reform” is basically “any policy change you like”. While “graft” is any policy change you don’t like, lol.

    But what strikes me is that this actually muddies the case for RTWFL- Iowa is already a RTWFL state, but it still “needs” to cut taxes to attract business? So 1) RTWFL is not enough, huh? and 2) There are other things a state can do to attract business.


  37. - Perplexed - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 11:45 am:

    @Oswego Willie:

    Easy, Cowpoke. No need to get defensive about the clarification of a surely accidental misstatement at 9:51:

    “Yet, no State has ever defaulted in history but they rate us just above junk.”


  38. - Perplexed - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 11:48 am:

    Correction, with my apology: @ Oswego Willy:


  39. - Blake - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 11:51 am:

    I fully acknowledged at 9:25am that RTW violates a lot of people’s values. Do you think your analysis on the economic impact is independent of how RTW rubs your values?

    Also, Iowa is a pretty good comparable to Illinois in that natural amenities give Florida & California real advantages over us that Iowa is in largely the same position as us. Why do you think Iowa’s population went up 4.7% last decade while Illinois’ reduced 0.2%?


  40. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 12:24 pm:

    Ford in 2019 committed to $1 billion, that’s with a B, investing in Illinois for manufacturing.

    Sounds like Ford thinks Illinois is a good place to manufacture vehicles.


  41. - PublicServant - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 12:37 pm:

    @OW === You’re whole schtick, different then - Lucky Pierre - I grant you, is that labor in of itself hurts, and it should be disbanded, along with pensions in any way that can be accomplished. ===

    That’s spot on Willy. Thank you.


  42. - NonAFSCMEStateEmployeeFromChatham - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 12:44 pm:

    ==Ford in 2019 committed to $1 billion, that’s with a B, investing in Illinois for manufacturing.

    Sounds like Ford thinks Illinois is a good place to manufacture vehicles.==

    Maybe Ford could bring some of that Illinois investment to the Springfield area and put a plant here. There’s some land on South MacArthur that was supposed to have been for the outlet mall pipe dream 10 years ago but can be a great Ford plant location. Langfelder and City Council, start going up to bat for serious job growth in Springfield and put aside all the excitement about the latest dollar store, restaurant, pawn shop, sports complex and the like opening in Springfield and start actively seeking high-paying manufacturing and technology jobs to come to the area. Alongside the State and Health Care.


  43. - Chicago 20 - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 12:53 pm:

    The locations of new large manufacturing plants has more to do with “tax incentives” than RTWFL laws.

    These subsidized States, who are not surprisingly RTWFL States find it easy to attract new manufacturing projects with subsidies they receive with Federal dollars paid from donor States, like Illinois.


  44. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 12:57 pm:

    - NonAFSCMEStateEmployeeFromChatham -

    Head to Detroit and ask Ford. Report back your findings.

    (Tips cap to - PublicServant -)


  45. - Jocko - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 1:19 pm:

    ==Iowa is a pretty good comparable to Illinois==

    Huh? Illinois has 4x the population and GDP. Try Iowa to Kansas.


  46. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 1:24 pm:

    Iowa population - 3.1 million

    Chicago population - 2.7 million

    I dunno if I’d compare the two too often.


  47. - Perplexed - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 1:36 pm:

    Before we footy-stomp about comparing Illinois to Iowa, note that Blake (11:51 a.m.) was citing “natural amenities,” which relative population and GDP statistics are not. Per Blake:

    “Iowa is a pretty good comparable to Illinois in that natural amenities give Florida & California real advantages over us that Iowa is in largely the same position as us. Why do you think Iowa’s population went up 4.7% last decade while Illinois’ reduced 0.2%?”

    Blake, you are of course correct here. These two same-sized states flanking the Mississippi have comparable topography and climate. Forgive those who go from zero to touchy when the discussion turns to other states’ improving competitiveness.


  48. - Blake - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 1:46 pm:

    There’s reasons I used percentage. I think the natural amenities (weather, water, topography) make IA a good comparable since FL & CA have natural advantages in attracting people to live there. Who do you think is a good comparable to Illinois when it comes to our advantages/disadvantages at attracting people to live here?


  49. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 1:49 pm:

    ===Who do you think is a good comparable to Illinois when it comes to our advantages/disadvantages at attracting people to live here?===

    Make your own case.

    Keep in mind…

    * 3rd largest city in America, 3rd largest media market in America

    * International agriculture giant

    * World class transportation hub

    Start there.


  50. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 1:56 pm:

    === Blake, you are of course correct here.===

    If correct is thinking like a 3rd grader thinking “shapes are the same”, or a political novice to elections that one thinks “land votes” and “counties matter”

    Iowa has none of the diversity, nothing of the culture, lacks industry that Illinois has, let alone transportation or urban transportation issues too.

    But by all means, “weather” or “shape” or “rivers”

    Love of Peter…


  51. - Blake - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 2:00 pm:

    Ag hub would point to Iowa while the other two are advantages which help Illinois have higher population growth rates than Iowa if our policies were equally as good.


  52. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 2:02 pm:

    === Ag hub===

    Yeah, bout that.

    Illinois is bigger than Ag.

    Iowa is centered around Ag.

    Again, simpleton comparisons

    Iowa doesn’t compare to Illinois.


  53. - Blake - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 2:07 pm:

    Why do you think Illinois finished 3rd bottom in population growth last census? What would have given Illinois a better outcome?


  54. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 2:11 pm:

    ===Why do you think===

    - Blake -

    Why you’re here, make your own case.

    Asking questions “in the ether” is a Facebook thingy.


  55. - City Zen - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 2:18 pm:

    ==Who do you think is a good comparable to Illinois when it comes to our advantages/disadvantages at attracting people to live here?==

    PA is probably the best comp with similar GDP and population numbers. Beyond that, OH/MI/GA would be next with maybe VA/NC/MA following. While IL might not be not in the top tier, our immediate neighbors are a tier below us.


  56. - Blake - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 2:21 pm:

    My case is I’m clearly less ideological than you, it’s a 2-party system, & it does appear the major party you don’t vote for is generally better at attracting people to live in their states. I think success attracting people to live in a state may be the best way to measure how good things are in that state, people showing with their actions. I know that success is more than just politics, but that doesn’t make politics a nonzero part of the matter & don’t see what the Democratic plan is to turnaround interstate migration trends.


  57. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 2:24 pm:

    ===My case is I’m clearly less ideological than you, it’s a 2-party system, & it does appear the major party you don’t vote for is generally better at attracting people to live in their states.===

    Like I figured, Facebook gibberish. The in-law uncle case to things, with the political “know it” as the fact.

    Good luck.


  58. - Blake - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 2:26 pm:

    PA also came to mind. NC has been very successful attracting people to live there. My post was thinking about the USDA’s Natural Amenities Scale which has OH & MI fairly similar to Illinois, though I know some people who like the cold in Michigan where they live, so I didn’t pick MI, WI, or MN. Ohio looks like a good comparable.


  59. - Blake - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 2:28 pm:

    OW is that your argument to swing voters, to call whatever they say gibberish?


  60. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 2:30 pm:

    ===is that your argument to swing voters, to call whatever they say gibberish?===

    Then explain how bad the GOP has been doing since GHR?

    You’re not making a good argument


  61. - Blake - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 2:39 pm:

    You’re talking about a different matter. I’m talking about succeeding in attracting people to live in the state. That the median Illinois voter has differences from the median voter nationally is off topic.


  62. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 2:46 pm:

    ===You’re talking about a different matter.===

    Please don’t, you’re not good at this;

    ===… it does appear the major party you don’t vote for is generally better at attracting people to live in their states. I think success attracting people to live in a state may be the best way to measure how good things are in that state, people showing with their actions. I know that success is more than just politics, but that doesn’t make politics a nonzero part of the matter===

    This is when Aunt Suzy saves the in-law uncle starting with FoxNews.

    You’re also not a swing voter, so let’s not pretend.

    Pennsylvania is close, but the Ag in PA is not of Illinois level…


  63. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 2:52 pm:

    ==don’t see what the Democratic plan is to turnaround interstate migration trends==

    No? It’s pretty clear. Get the state government back on track, reinvest in education, get in early on new tech like data centers and electric vehicles, and don’t cut people’s wages.

    Maybe it’ll work, maybe it won’t, there will definitely be enough ambiguity that we’ll be able to argue over it. But the plan is pretty clear.


  64. - Blake - Wednesday, Mar 2, 22 @ 2:52 pm:

    Admittedly I have not voted Republican for statewide office since Topinka & even then voted Quinn, but I may be a swing voter this year.


Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


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