65 Comments - Norseman - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:22 am: The old gal still has gas in the tank. Now comes the spelunkers of misery. - Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:23 am: Pretty obvious why Downstate is holding back the state’s growth. The tax, regulatory and legal environment is not competitive with other similar rural areas in neighboring states but Democrats insist on a one size fits all approach to Illinois. Fifteen dollars an hour is not the same in Cairo as it is in Chicago. - Baloneymous - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:23 am: This is more great news for our state. Data is from BEA. Illinois’ GDP is larger than Wisconsin, Iowa and Missouri combined. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:28 am: ===Fifteen dollars an hour is not === Except Darren Bailey’s running mate says the state’s minimum wage isn’t adequate. Hmm. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:29 am: ===The tax, regulatory and legal environment is not competitive with other similar rural areas in neighboring states=== “Illinois needs to be less in rural areas, like Indiana” That’s not a great argument - TheInvisibleMan - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:30 am: –The report suggests that it’s downstate that is holding back the state’s overall growth.– Well, all these places are in the same state so it can’t be the ‘policies forced on them by Chicago and Springfield’ as many of the downstate pols like to complain about. Local policies are all that’s left as a cause. - Candy Dogood - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:31 am: ===What do you think of this data? === I really won’t know what to make of these positive economic indicators without some homophobic and bigoted Illinois GOP elected officials explaining to me how about how awful Illinois is for anyone to operate a business in because they have some lofty idea about how owning a fast food franchise or inheriting hundreds of acres of farm land is the only economic enterprise possible in Southern Illinois and their only understanding of economics is making money through exploitation, and in the case of the Illinois GOP’s Bigot in Chief, rely on millions of dollars in public handouts to fuel their “family business.” - Baloneymous - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:32 am: Norseman, the main spelunker of misery on this site posted just one minute after you. And is complaining about the $15 minimum wage. Next will be the pensions. Enjoy a moment of good news just once in your life LP, it’s a nice feeling. - Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:39 am: Illinois is still growing slower from 2010 to 2019 at 3.3% than the rest of the nation which was at 4% Downstate is growing at 2.1% but Democrats have no plans to make them more competitive with the states whose economies are growing faster Strange how the group doesn’t report the growth or lack there of in Illinois this year Nationally 1st quarter growth was negative 1.6% and second quarter was -.06% - Candy Dogood - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:40 am: ===is not competitive with other similar rural areas === Is “Be like Kentucky” going to be your slogan for this one? Or are you going to go with “Be like Missourah?” Illinois is about to become the last refuge in the Midwest for human beings to exercise their rights and your position is “Quick! Make thee to the dumpster!” ===Fifteen dollars an hour is not the same in Cairo as it is in Chicago. === What about $15 an hour in Carbondale? What about $15 in Anna? You want to travel to West Frankfort and tell those folks they’re not worth $15 an hour? How about Mt Vernon? Which business are really paying minimum wage in those areas? How many of them are locally owned? How many of them are owned by some faceless LLC? What’s the point here? To tell the People of Southern Illinois that they’re garbage until they believe it, and then blame Chicago for it? God forbid that the solution involve some kind of investment in their communities and the education of children. - Huh? - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:43 am: “spelunkers of misery” Are they related to the nattering naybobs of negativity? - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:44 am: ===Are they related to the nattering naybobs of negativity? === Nieces. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:45 am: ===Illinois is still growing…=== Still. Growing. Yep. - LP -… “people in rural areas need to make less” Also - LP -, maybe “there are no opportunities and people are moving” I don’t think - LP - has a good argument, I think - LP - in a comic book thinking wants bad options to be his only option. - Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:47 am: There you have it, making the state South of route 80 competitive with similar areas in neighboring states is not a great argument for some undisclosed reason. Chicago Democrats think this news is good because the Chicago area, which has always had the biggest economy in the Midwest continues to. They overlook the obvious problems downstate, have zero solutions to fix them, and continue to mock those from there as rubes or worse. - DTownResident - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:50 am: So, I’d we are to be like our neighbors, are we supposed to be like Anderson, Muncie, or Marion in Indiana where the poverty rates in Indiana even with lower unemployment are still higher than here in Decatur? - Sox Fan - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:56 am: ==The tax, regulatory and legal environment is not competitive with other similar rural areas in neighboring states but Democrats insist on a one size fits all approach to Illinois.== Now tell us your thoughts on the graduated income tax? - Henry Francis - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:57 am: == Fifteen dollars an hour is not the same in Cairo as it is in Chicago.== While this is true, I am not sure how relevant it really is to explain the economic shortcomings of southern IL. The economy down there has been on a downward trend for years, well before the increase in minimum wage. But keep spelunking. It’s gotta be JB’s fault somehow. - Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 9:57 am: Are you seriously arguing the cost of living in Chicago (107.1) is the same as Carbondale (78.1) and that the cost of labor should be the same? https://www.payscale.com/cost-of-living-calculator/Illinois-Chicago https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/illinois/carbondale - One Trick Pony - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:01 am: Higher GDP, I would hope, leads to higher revenues for State and local governments also. How about another upgrade from those bond rating folks. We are top 5 for GDP but bottom 5 for bond rating? Riddle me that one. - Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:05 am: Maybe because Illinois has the 4th highest government debt per capita? https://www.governing.com/finance/state-and-local-governments-with-the-most-debt-per-capita?_amp=true - Lurker - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:11 am: Downstate is 2.1% but if you look at Southern Illinois, I think the number would be lower and most likely negative. It may just be the areas I saw on my recent visit but I’m really worried about Southern Illinois. - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:14 am: Certain people need Illinois to do badly, to try to advance their political and economic interests. This has been a bad year for them, with the credit upgrades and census revision that refutes the exodus narrative. - Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:26 am: The Federal Government reported the Illinois economy was not growing in the second quarter of 2022 down 2.5% Down more than all Midwestern states except Indiana MN -1.1% WI - 1.9% MI - 1.7% MO- 2.0% IN-3.3% IA-.8% KY- 1.8% OH- 1.1% Only 3 of those states has slower income growth, Indiana, Michigan and Kentucky https://www.bea.gov/news/2022/gross-domestic-product-state-and-personal-income-state-2nd-quarter-2022 - Stormsw7706 - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:30 am: Nice presentation of data. Good for Illinois. Doing well but not showing off. - Suburban Mom - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:31 am: ===Are you seriously arguing the cost of living in Chicago (107.1) is the same as Carbondale (78.1) and that the cost of labor should be the same?=== No, which is why many Chicago-area minimum wage employers pay a premium ABOVE $15. You get that it’s a MINIMUM wage, not an “everybody gets exactly this, no matter what” wage, right? - Baloneymous - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:33 am: The post is about Illinois’ trillion-dollar GDP, amazing, great news. And LP is still complaining that workers should make less money because they live in Southern Illinois. I bet Taco John’s workers in Marion would not agree with you. If $15 an hour is too much in Cairo or Carbondale, then is $15 enough for people living in downtown Chicago? Instead of regurgitating stats, why don’t you propose a new minimum wage scale based on what city or region in Illinois where people live? - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:36 am: - Lucky Pierre - I look at these negative performance art posts you do (you must be a gag, at this point with so much negativity and you still live here, LOL) and the Rauner agenda would t have helped, but would’ve likely hurt Illinois more, because union wages, collective bargaining and prevailing wage… you are first advocating a contracting of workers rights and wages AND claiming business is shrinking, when facts to business not choosing at least Chicagoland isn’t true. So, unless you can come up with why Illinois, right now, is a good choice, your performance art comments are inside jokes you should just let us all in on the gag, otherwise, daily, you are foolish staying in Illinois for ANY reason. Sincerely. Foolish. - JS Mill - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:40 am: =The tax, regulatory and legal environment is not competitive with other similar rural areas in neighboring states but Democrats insist on a one size fits all approach to Illinois.= So we should halve our GDP to be like Indiana, or even cut it more to be like Missouri? LP, that is silly even for you. Our growth rate is lower? Our trillion dollar GDP means that even at a lower percentage the growth in dollars dwarfs our neighbors whom you would like us to be like. You have an incredibly regressive view of economic development. And, with regard rural Illinois where Ag is king, the tax policies for Ag are effectively no taxes. They get every break possible and then some. Maybe they could pay their employees a bit more? But you do you, itis fun for the rest of us. - Furtive Look - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:41 am: GDP is a lousy way of measuring anything. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:42 am: ===MN -1.1% WI - 1.9% MI - 1.7% MO- 2.0% IN-3.3% IA-.8% KY- 1.8% OH- 1.1%=== Has any other of these states hit that billion dollar level? (It’s rhetorical in nature, I know how to use “The Google Key”, thanks) - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:43 am: Plus… ===Illinois is just the fifth state to top $1 trillion in annualized GDP, joining California, Texas, New York and Florida.=== … I’d like to see if - LP - read the post first, lol - former southerner - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:46 am: Give LP a break. His handler neglected to clean his kitty litter box and he is feeling more out of sorts than usual. - Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:51 am: Is the Federal Government’s Bureau of Economic Analysis in on the gag too? Their numbers are much worse than the rosy report from the left leaning Illinois Economic Policy Institute whose landing page supports the workers rights amendment. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:58 am: ===Is the Federal Government’s Bureau of Economic Analysis in on the gag too?=== No. Just you. It’s not even good propaganda, lol It’s not good propaganda so you must be a gag to the honest of a discussion Still can’t find a single good thing to say about Illinois? Two reasons why; You are a gag, or dishonest. Illinois is the 5th state to reach this level. By forcing a discussion to the good, who knows, you push so much bad in hopes the good gets more play? Otherwise, it’s the saddest thing, you staying in Illinois. - Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 10:59 am: What does reporting actual facts from the Federal government have to do with some ridiculous story about kitty litter? Absolutely nothing. If you can refute the facts, “ridicule is man’s most important weapon” “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, polarize it” but by all means don’t engage in honest debate or acknowledge differences of opinion. - Baloneymous - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 11:04 am: ===Is the Federal Government’s Bureau of Economic Analysis in on the gag too?=== Now we’ve switched from minimum wage discussions to anti-union and questioning the actual data like GDP is now a conspiracy theory. Are you also going to question red state’s Texas, Florida, Indiana, Missouri’s GDP numbers? or just Illinois because you hate it so much? Most of your posts are worse than clickbait, they are just too hard to not respond. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 11:05 am: I was waiting for our resident Illinois hater to get on here blathering about this being horrible news. He didn’t disappoint. I have no idea why and Illinois hater like LP doesn’t take his ball and go home and get the heck out of dodge since he thinks Illinois is such a bad place to live. I frankly get tired of all of his hate. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 11:06 am: ==but by all means don’t engage in honest debate== Because you aren’t honest. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 11:09 am: ===If you can refute the facts, “ridicule is man’s most important weapon” “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, polarize it” but by all means don’t engage in honest debate or acknowledge differences of opinion.=== All I asked is do you ever have anything positive to say about Illinois… It’s up to you if you can say it. Five states hit a trillion (with a T), Illinois the lone one in the Midwest. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 11:12 am: ===but by all means don’t engage in honest debate or acknowledge differences of opinion=== LOL Have you ever done either of those things? - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 11:13 am: ===Because you aren’t honest.=== Which is a red flag that it’s a gag or sadly a pathetic way to pretend to be honest to a discussion No other choices. Haggling that having a trillion dollar GDP is bad the way - LP - wants to frame it *is* dishonest to looking at the numbers as they are seemingly negative in the framing. Likely, 45 states would like a GDP of a trillion too, no? - Dysfunction Junction - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 11:21 am: =Likely, 45 states would like a GDP of a trillion too, no?= Not if it meant being known as an island of reproductive choice and having a hellhole as the main driver of economic activity, amirite? /s - Honeybear - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 11:24 am: Passage of the Workers Rights Amendment will certainly help southern illinois become more productive. Well paid Union workers are always more productive. - City Zen - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 11:25 am: These GDP ranking typically don’t change much. A few states like NC, CO, and TN are inching their way up faster than others, but not enough to move the needle much. PA is about a year away from passing the $1T mark too. - Cool Papa Bell - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 11:48 am: =The tax, regulatory and legal environment is not competitive with other similar rural areas in neighboring states but Democrats insist on a one size fits all approach to Illinois.= Because growth in Ohio, Indiana or Wisconsin isn’t coming from Columbus, Indy or Madison or Milwaukee? Rural is suffering everywhere. Illinois should be striving to do better in each and every county but Missouri isn’t out growing Illinois by massive expansion of Reynolds County . - MisterJayEm - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 11:51 am: “Pretty obvious why Downstate is holding back the state’s growth.” Because the state’s southernmost counties get $2.81 back for every dollar of tax revenue that they put in? Probably. Just imagine how super-charged the state’s economy might be if those tax dollars went back into the areas that generated the most income and taxes. Paradise, amirite? Not to mention the powerful blow that change would deliver to dreaded socialism. Even so, the state topped $1 trillion in annualized GDP despite that downstate free-riding, so I think we should let it continue. – MrJM - Name Withheld - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 12:11 pm: I vote that “Spelunker of Misery” becomes one of the awards at the end of the year. - Anon324 - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 12:14 pm: It’s great that LP has decided to compare apples to oranges (in this case, real GDP to current dollar GDP) in order to bolster his claim that IEPI is cooking the books out of some leftist conspiracy. If he bothered to look at the BEA current dollar GDP numbers, he’d see they match the IEPI report, because guess what? The IEPI used federal data for the report. - cermak_rd - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 12:55 pm: LP, A simple question. Do you think there are more business owners or more employees in the rural regions of the states. If employees, do you think they would actually like to be paid less than someone who lived in another county? So selling that to the voters might be a challenge. One other thing I have noticed is that in eastern Iowa, there seems to have been a pickup in people choosing to work in IL. Even with this year’s earlier high gas prices, that was enough of a difference (Iowa’s min =7.25)to get people to change jobs. Getting more workers into our economy and depriving our neighboring states of theirs strikes me as a good win. - Joe Bidenopolous - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 1:00 pm: =They overlook the obvious problems downstate, have zero solutions to fix them, and continue to mock those from there as rubes or worse.= not true - everyone is mocking you, genius. You’re the one who wants to lower the standard of living for those south of I-80 - Thomas Paine - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 1:23 pm: Republicans: Economic problems in Black communities are their fault. Also Republicans: Economic problems in rural communities are the government’s fault. - Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 2:43 pm: Come on Man Joe Bidenopolous who said anything about lowering the standard of living downstate. Creating an environment where manufacturers who pay far higher than minimum wages is the way to raise the standard of living for downstate residents and decrease their reliance on state funding. Democrats don’t have solutions to attract businesses they just double down on failure and expect better results JB has failed to attract electric vehicle manufactures and their suppliers that would be a perfect fit downstate https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/07/states-spend-billions-on-evs-to-replace-automotive-capital-michigan.html - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 2:50 pm: ===Democrats don’t have solutions to attract businesses they just double down on failure and expect better results=== Mere opinion, no 60/30 signature exists for Raunerite wants. ===JB has failed to attract electric vehicle manufactures=== Explain Rivian - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 2:55 pm: - LP - Start here… “Rivian plant expanding again in Normal” https://pantagraph.com/business/local/rivian-plant-expanding-again-in-normal/article_03011b42-a0a7-516f-a316-dfa1f45cf245.html - LP - you despise Illinois, yet you are still here. Again, not family, friends, history, what is one good thing about this state… to live here, work here, etc Why can’t you say anything good about Illinois… and why I am asking… then if you despise Illinois, why are you “confused” things are so bad. You should move for your own mental health. One thing. Gotta be one thing good. We’re are but ONE of FIVE states with a trillion GDP… sounds like commerce and business is rolling pretty good. Can always be better, strive to be better, but Illinois is the economic engine of the Midwest… unmatched - Demoralized - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 3:07 pm: OW: You know he is never ever going to answer that question. He’s incapable of having an honest conversation. He’s proven it over and over and over again. But you’re right. He hates Illinois. - Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 3:27 pm: No I love Illinois, lived here my entire life. Plenty of room for political diversity in Illinois just like there are millions of Democrats in Florida and Texas. Should they leave too? Is that the strategy be like New York Governor and tell anyone who is not a Democrat to leave the state? https://www.empirecenter.org/publications/kathy-hochuls-call-for-5-4m-republicans-to-leave-new-york-is-dangerous-and-disgusting/ - Baloneymous - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 3:33 pm: === tell anyone who is not a Democrat to leave the state?=== And you missed everyone’s point yet again. Has nothing to do with political diversity. Just that you never admit to anything positive and only focus on the negative on basically every CF post regarding our state. The post today was not about the Democrats or JB Pritzker. It was about Illinois topping $1 trillion in GDP for this first time in our state’s history. It’s good news. And you took a dump on it. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 3:43 pm: ===Is that the strategy be like New York Governor and tell anyone who is not a Democrat to leave the state?=== You still haven’t named one thing you like about Illinois. You love Illinois, yet daily you’ve yet to cheer anything good that happens; Credit upgrades, debt reduction, business wins… Friend, it’s like your Stockholm Syndrome is fed on a diet of anger upon hearing anything good. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to stay in a place where one claims they love it, but can’t point to anything they love. You can love family just as much if y’all move, you claim states have better jobs, lower taxes, less crime, better budgets, better business climate… but you love your family? “Ok, go with that” Illinois’ GDP is now a trillion, top 10% of all states, the Midwest gorilla when it comes to commerce, yet you point to “bad” Sorry. Your argument has no compelling truth. It’s actually as phony as you. This post proves it… again. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 4:12 pm: ==It’s good news. And you took a dump on it.== Lol. True. ==Plenty of room for political diversity in Illinois== That’s rich coming from you. - cermak_rd - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 4:22 pm: LP, Actually https://www.americanprogress.org/article/path-rural-resilience-america/ The American Progress has suggested boosting incomes to allow for rural development. After all if the truck mechanic is getting min + 20 (most wages will scale off the min) then he can afford to enjoy a meal out at the local diner maybe one more day a week or have 1 more cup of coffee out. That brings money into the diner which can then use it to pay their dishwashers, who then have money for… - Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 4:33 pm: The Center for American Progress is a liberal advocacy organization that was founded by Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager John Podesta. Do you think they would ever favor conservative, pro business solutions? - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 4:37 pm: ===Do you think they would ever favor conservative, pro business solutions?=== Do you think it’s good news that Illinois is among 5 states topping a trillion in GDP? Yes… or no. Full stop - Baloneymous - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 5:03 pm: ===founded by Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager John Podesta=== Weren’t you the one who was just complaining about “plenty of room for political diversity”? Man you just don’t get it. Your negativity and dishonesty are a real bummer. - Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 5:04 pm: Yes I think it’s good news but why the full stop and why ignore that 2.6% contraction? I can’t square how Illinois GDP can be a record but the economy contracted. Does that make any sense? Can you enlighten everyone how that would work. Why are you so sensitive about suggestions to improve the economy statewide when the report admits the prosperity is not shared outside the Chicago area? What does the Center for American Progress, that is run by a New York liberal Patrick Gaspard who served in the Obama administration, know about bringing manufacturing business to rural areas like is happening in South to a great degree? - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Oct 4, 22 @ 5:19 pm: ===Do you think they would ever favor conservative, pro business solutions?=== Because up to this second, millisecond, you have no impression that it was good news Here’s why that’s so important. Keep up. Arguing agreed facts, that is the ONLY way a discussion to a nuance to the news can allow an w cage of actual policy thoughts. Read that slow. Let it sink in. It’s important to any discussion to begin with the agreed true facts. This is big for you. Reading the rest of your thoughts now sounds and reads like someone with honesty to questions and nuanced policy thoughts too. Goodness, nearly 8 years, you might be learning. ===why ignore that 2.6% contraction? I can’t square how Illinois GDP can be a record but the economy contracted.=== Now that sounds like a person who one can discuss a truth and discuss the “how”… honestly. ===Why are you so sensitive about suggestions to improve the economy statewide when the report admits the prosperity is not shared outside the Chicago area?=== I’m actually not, and since we agree this is good news as the base of a discussion, I’d like to see labor and the economic engines of state universities be major hubs to your thoughts. Educated workforce, college educated leadership working in concert with towns starving for both? That’s where I’d begin. How about you? Your last … thought? Unhelpful. Thank you. Appreciate an opportunity to discuss things in these framings. Be well, - LP - Respectfully, OW Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.