Attorney General Kwame Raoul accused his Republican challenger Thomas DeVore of making “dangerous” remarks, while DeVore accused the Democratic incumbent of failing the state’s school students by not challenging Gov. JB Pritzker’s COVID-19 mitigations.
The charges and countercharges came during a nearly hourlong debate organized by the Illinois Associated Press Media Editors and Capitol News Illinois that was conducted Monday via Zoom. […]
“I think one of the things we’ve learned over the course of the last couple of years is that there was a fair question to be asked about the extent of the governor’s ability to issue some of those mandates,” DeVore said. “You know, you have some on one side of the conversation say he could absolutely do it. You had some that said he absolutely couldn’t. But I think we would all agree as intellectual people there was a fair question.”
Raoul, however, defended his decisions, and his support for Pritzker’s executive orders, saying the state was in the midst of a deadly pandemic and that he, himself, lost friends to the disease.
“I will agree with Mr. DeVore. It was a fair question to ask,” Raoul said. “But how many times you ask it is a fair question too. It was asked and answered multiple times in multiple lawsuits. And the courts’ resources should not have been abused as they were.”
Good point.
Q: The Attorney General said that some of these [”stop the steal”] lawsuits, challenges we’ve seen in other states undermine democracy. Do you agree with that?
DeVore: I’m willing to go that far because again,we’re not dealing with propaganda here to create fodder for to me what doesn’t matter, which is our state. You know, if there’s people filing lawsuits and other states, I’ve heard about them, are they trying to undermine democracy or whether they have specific articulable facts? I don’t know. Maybe Mr. Raoul knows, but I’m certainly not going to discredit people bringing forth causes of action trying to make a point in a court of law if it’s not a meritorious case, the courts will dispose of those in short order.
Q: Okay, Mr. Devore. On the topic of lawsuits, what happens to your private practice if you are elected Attorney General? Do you completely step aside? I’m not even sure if there’s prohibitions on maintaining that office while serving as AG. But also on the topic of lawsuits, you sued the governor for calling you a grifter. You sued the mother of your girlfriend for allegedly criticizing you. And then about five years ago, you sued a special education teacher for criticizing your characterization of some students as window lickers, alleged characterization maybe. So is the lawsuit a tool you’re using to maybe quash public criticisms and should we expect that level of private litigation from you if you are elected Attorney General?
DeVore: A lot of different questions in one statement there and I’m not sure which ones to deal with. But look, let’s talk about the governor’s comments. He never at one time said that what he called me, which is a fee for all intents and purposes, wasn’t defamatory. He raised the argument that as the governor he can defame people all at once and go about saying whatever he likes, and he has that immunity. That was his argument. As to these other causes of action, those are personal issues. To the extent those persons are trying to say those things, but in general, I’ll say merely because you know how many people are stifled to run for office because they’re scared that they’re going to be absolutely taken to task on their whole manner of things that exceed the office a lot. You know what? Governor Pritzker just sent a letter through his law firm to a news organization in the north saying that what you’re doing is defamatory to me, please stop. So when it rises to the level of it’s not just political talk, and it’s accusing people of committing crimes, and saying other things that impugn their ability to do their job, they have an absolute right to defend themselves. Me, the governor, Mr. Raoul and anybody, and to suggest that it has some ulterior motives other than defending your character I take issue with that, because that’s what it’s about. The governor had the right to send that letter when he sent it. Just as much as I have the right to defend myself. And if someone says something like that to Mr. Raoul, I would hope he would do the same thing.
Q: What do you do with your private practice if you become elected Attorney General?
DeVore: There’s a lot of other lawyers in our office that are already handling most of those cases, and would continue to handle those cases as well.
Q: Would you accept any income from that?
DeVore: I will not be, whether I would or wouldn’t I can tell you the answer is no. I’ve already made that clear to them that it’s again, I’ve not even looked into the details of that Mr. Raoul may know. But I know my decision that I made is not something that has to be vetted because I won’t get any income from it. I won’t be a part of it. I’ll be completely disconnected and have nothing to do with the financial part of it.
Q: And should we expect these level of private lawsuits from you to continue if you’re elected Attorney General?
DeVore: You mean you’re asking me if somebody is going to defame me in the future?
Q: Are you going to plan on suing people who speak ill of you as attorney general?
DeVore: You know, whoever asked that question, I put them in the category of people that need to stick to reporting. If someone defamed me anytime in the future, am I going to defend myself? Absolutely. But to suggest that that means you’re going to go out and just start filing lawsuits against people at will it’s a poor choice of words and completely irresponsible for whoever asked that question. Of course, I’m going to defend myself if I need to no more than Attorney General Raoul would defend himself and Governor Pritzker currently defends himself, so it’s not unique to me.
Raoul: I think a lot of questions speak to something that we as lawyers and certainly as attorney general, have to have respect for, is and that’s of course resources. You know, lawyers, whether they’re attorney general or independently, can be sanctioned for abuse of filing non-meritorious lawsuits. As we talk about the defamation lawsuits that were referenced before, including one against a special ed teacher for objecting to Mr. DeVore referring to some kids as window lickers. First off, I don’t think we want the courts to be used to stop teachers from being protective of students when somebody’s gonna do something that I think is just unconscionable. And then, the other thing that’s important to look at is the outcome of those lawsuits. That lawsuit was eventually dismissed, right? And so, it’s one thing to file a lawsuit if you really try to follow a meritorious lawsuit, carry it out to the point where you know it has merit and you can prevail. The number one defense to defamation is truth.
DeVore: Yeah, Attorney General Raoul, well, let me just say what you just said on this camera is defamatory because you weren’t there. You don’t know anything about it. It was not anything to do with special needs kids. It didn’t have anything to do with a special ed teacher. None of that.
Raoul: I didn’t say anything about special needs kids.
DeVore: Yes you did.
Raoul: I said kids.
DeVore: You said, disabled kid. But I dropped the case because the young man who made those defamatory statements was scared to death. And so why should I put him through more than I already went through. So don’t talk about things you don’t know what you’re talking about. I mean, how many special needs kids have suffered tremendously for your failure to defend them against the governor’s tyrannical behavior? Thousands and thousands of special needs kids have lost their learning that they’ll never recover in their lifetime. That’s true. And that’s on you, sir. So please don’t talk to me about some alleged defamatory issue from five years ago, when the kids of this state will never recover from your failure to defend them against the governor. Please don’t go there with me sir.
Raoul: Thank you for your comments, Mr. Devore. If you take time to re-watch the tape you will find out that I did not say special. I said kids, and I think what you said about kids whether special needs or not is despicable.
1) DeVore would certainly know about courts tossing out lawsuits.
2) DeVore implies he sued the governor because too many people are scared of being “taken to task” when they contemplate running for office, and then said he dropped his window lickers lawsuit “because the young man who made those defamatory statements was scared to death.” OK.
3) Raoul did not say “disabled kid” despite DeVore’s instance. So, is that defamatory? /s
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 9:55 am:
Tom Devore. The Donald Trump of Illinois. Sue. Sue. Sue. Poor guy. Has pretty thin skin. Sue anyone who says something negative against you. Can someone please tell me why anyone in their right mind would support a guy like this? I honestly don’t get the people out there who think this guy is fit to be the AG. It makes me have less faith in voters that anyone would vote for the man.
- WestBurbs - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 10:00 am:
Putting aside many other issues, there is no doubt that DeVore is a terrible lawyer. To be clear, I’m not sure you need to be a great lawyer to be AG but being a terrible lawyer should disqualify you from any job that requires critical thinking, including AG.
- AlfondoGonz - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 10:02 am:
Can the ILGOP do better?
Like, can they? Is it possible for them, their voters, their leaders, to see how low they are now, and try to be better?
Or is “owning the libs” all that matters?
- fs - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 10:04 am:
==Your thoughts?==
November 9 can’t get here soon enough.
- Big Dipper - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 10:07 am:
== DeVore: It didn’t have anything to do with a special ed teacher.==
Dan Petrella in Trib: DeVore proceeded to file a libel lawsuit in Montgomery County against three people, including a local special education teacher, alleging they had falsely accused him of ridiculing “children with ‘special needs.’”
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 10:08 am:
Whelp, now we know that devore doesn’t know much about the law, the english language, or education.
=Thousands and thousands of special needs kids have lost their learning that they’ll never recover in their lifetime. =
They didn’t “lose their learning” and students that fall behind can catch up. Fairly quickly actually.
This guy is just embarrassing. The scary part is people will vote for him.
- Lionel Hutz - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 10:10 am:
I say everyone DeVore threatens with legal action for speaking facts and truth should hope to God that he sues.
Because discovery would be totally amazing.
My bet is that during discovery, Kwame Raoul would absolutely mop the floor with Tom DeVore and make him regret filing any lawsuit whatsoever.
- Henry Francis - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 10:17 am:
“ You know what? Governor Pritzker just sent a letter through his law firm to a news organization in the north saying that what you’re doing is defamatory to me, please stop.”
A news organization “in the north”? I mean he’s been whistling Dixie about his AG run, but thought this was an interesting choice of words.
- H-W - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 10:20 am:
= I think we would all agree as intellectual people there was a fair question. =
I am pretty sure the adjective is intelligent, not intellectual, Mr. Intellectual (not).
- Big Dipper - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 10:21 am:
JB’s letter was about a false factual assertion - that he got Miles fired. That is not the same as suing someone because you don’t like their opinion of you.
- Big Dipper - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 10:24 am:
Correction: tried to get Mills fired.
- Techie - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 10:27 am:
Devore certainly won’t be getting my vote - dude is straight up scary. Maybe I just stumbled upon a good Halloween costume.
- OneMan - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 10:28 am:
I wonder if his walk-up music is Wierd Al’s I’ll Sue Ya.
- Lucky Pierre - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 10:36 am:
Kwame Raoul went to Kent Law School ranked #94 and Tom Devore went to St Louis University Law School ranked #98 in America.
Neither is Clarence Darrow. Both Men have their faults but can be proud of their accomplishments and neither one is stupid.
- Arsenal - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 10:41 am:
==Can the ILGOP do better?==
They had a perfectly serviceable Steve Kim on the ballot. Kim is hardly a dynamo, but he’s not an embarrassment either, and he had the potential of being fully funded.
ILGOP chose this instead.
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 11:02 am:
==Both Men have their faults but can be proud of their accomplishments and neither one is stupid.==
Be serious LP. Are you really defending Tom Devore. I have even less respect for you now and I didn’t know that was possible.
- Ron Burgundy - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 11:17 am:
There is a long-running discussion in legal circles, which bubbled up again with the likes of Trump and Giuliani, of whether hypothetically there is a person of such low reputation that they cannot be defamed. I don’t think we are there yet, but we do have some people working to get there.
- AlfondoGonz - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 11:22 am:
This the closest LP has come to acknowledging a GOP pol is not beyond criticism.
Very bold take for you, LP.
- Big Dipper - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 11:24 am:
==Kwame Raoul went to Kent Law School ranked #94 and Tom Devore went to St Louis University Law School ranked #98 in America.==
Don Tracy went to University of Memphis ranked #263. The ILGOP has some great legal talent.
- NorthsideNoMore - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 11:30 am:
Moderator should have asked “Will the grift continue post election ?” that would make for some fun watching
- Blue Dog - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 11:30 am:
Just curious on who ranks the Law schools.
- JoeMaddon - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 11:30 am:
**Kwame Raoul went to Kent Law School ranked #94 and Tom Devore went to St Louis University Law School ranked #98 in America. Neither is Clarence Darrow.**
Imagine thinking that one’s lawyerly ability is determined by the law school that a person attends. Good god…
- Ron Burgundy - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 11:36 am:
-Imagine thinking that one’s lawyerly ability is determined by the law school that a person attends. Good god…-
Unfortunately, it has been a prime qualification for the highest court in our country since inception.
- low level - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 11:44 am:
New drinking game: every time DeVore says “defame” you drink.
- Ron Burgundy - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 11:56 am:
-Just curious on who ranks the Law schools.-
US News is the most well known, but there are a handful of others.
- Henry Francis - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 11:57 am:
JB went to Northwestern law school, which is ranked 13. So that makes JB a better lawyer than both Kwame and DeVore. Right?
And since where one went to school is important for some, how does JB’s B.A. from Duke and J.D. from Northwestern compare to Bailey’s A.S. from Lake Land College?
To paraphrase an above comment: “Neither is Albert Einstein. Both men have their faults but can be proud of their accomplishments and only one is an expert is growing food”
- Huh? - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 12:01 pm:
“Kwame Raoul went to Kent Law School ranked #94 and Tom Devore went to St Louis University Law School ranked #98 in America.”
Where you went to school means nothing once you have the piece of paper. They passed the same bar exam. As long as they continue to meet the professional development requirements to keep the piece of paper, who cares what law school they attended.
- WestBurbs - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 12:49 pm:
Re the law school ranking debate. While it is not impossible for great lawyers to come from any school, for most/vast majority of lawyers, the law school they went to is a decent proxy for intelligence/critical thinking/understanding rules/regulations. This primarily is due to the LSAT score being a major determinant of admissions and scholarship money. To be clear, difference between #94 and 98 is meaningless. But 13 vs 94 tells you something, at least in most cases.
- Rudy’s teeth - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 1:01 pm:
Law school rankings and reputation…
Eddie Vrdolyak graduated from the University of Chicago law school (currently ranked at #3).
We all know how that turned out—-including Eddie’s two stints in prison and loss of his license to practice. So there’s that.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 1:03 pm:
This law school rankings canard is goofy. Move along.
- Red Ketcher - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 1:11 pm:
“said he dropped his window lickers lawsuit “because the young man who made those defamatory statements was scared to death.”
Upon Information and Belief, the guess is that Devore dropped the suit because some very good , ethical, and respected Local Lawyers got involved , and had Devore teed up for defeat.
- Roads Scholar - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 1:15 pm:
To the post, Raoul rightfully calling out DeVore’s comments as “despicable” as the last word, almost as a side note, after DeVore beat his chest over something that didn’t happen, tells you all you need to know about who’s the better litigator.
- Walker - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 1:19 pm:
Tommy D can do what he wants with his own money. My beef is when he talks local parents all around the state to pay him to file suits on issues already pretty much decided. (Oh, is that defamatory?)
- Pundent - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 1:24 pm:
My advice to the ILGOP, condemn Devore and this nonsense now. Acknowledge the obvious. You will not win this race or any other statewide race with incredibly flawed, extreme, unelectable candidates. Don’t wait until after the election to “reflect” and “find better candidates” that voters won’t reject. Recognize the obvious now and don’t let it define the party.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 1:33 pm:
DeVore is the GOP as Bailey is the GOP
Until the party decides it wants different, these candidates will litter ballots further decimating any hopes of a GOP comeback, and given a choice of DeVore, the state needs not folks like him.
- PublicServant - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 2:18 pm:
My advice to DeVore is … chill and have a Modelo at midnight.
- Excitable Boy - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 2:27 pm:
- Recognize the obvious now and don’t let it define the party. -
That ship sailed long ago.
- Payback - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 2:41 pm:
“My bet is that during discovery, Kwame Raoul would absolutely mop the floor with Tom DeVore…” Really? Have you ever seen/heard Raoul before this debate?
If you saw Raoul run out of the room to avoid audience questions at the City Club luncheon on October 21, 2019, held at the Union League Club downtown, you would know that he is not a profile in moral courage. Raoul’s campaign HQ for AG was inside Senate President John Cullerton’s office on Belmont Ave. Raoul is a benign placeholder propped up by the party, nothing more.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 2:46 pm:
===avoid audience questions at the City Club luncheon on October 21, 2019===
How many more times are you gonna bring that up here? You’re a one-hit wonder.
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Oct 12, 22 @ 3:34 pm:
==Raoul is a benign placeholder==
A placeholder for who?