* Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels is almost gleeful about Illinois’ proposed tax hike…
“We already had an edge on Illinois in terms of the cost of doing business, and this is going to make it significantly wider,” Daniels said.
Illinoisans actually pay a lower personal and corporate tax rate than Indiana at the moment, but the proposed tax hike would put us way in front of the Hoosiers.
* Gov. Daniels loves to sock it to us whenever he can. Check out this backhanded praise for Illinois’ plan to use tax hikes and borrowing to finally pay its bills on time…
“That’s [late payments] just borrowing by a different name. They’ve been borrowing from the poor businesses that are suckers enough to do business with the state,” he said.
Oof.
* More…
Daniels also said he’s surprised that two states as geographically and historically similar as Indiana and Illinois could be in such dissimilar financial shape.
“It does show that you can make very different choices, and the contrast between the choice we’ve made and the one they have is stark,” he said. “Obviously I think ours is wiser, but self-governance means people get what they vote for.”
We are close geographically, but we are very different states. Indiana has no big city like Chicago. It’s not a major corporate center, nor is it as racially or culturally diverse. It’s not exactly a cultural mecca, either. Also, the Ku Klux Klan never ran Illinois’ government in the 1920s like it did next door. They have their own eccentricities.
…Adding… Thanks to a commenter for the link…
State leaders boast of 100,000 new Indiana jobs in the past five years, but an Eyewitness News investigation finds many of the state’s “economic successes” are actually empty fields and deserted factories where thousands of promised jobs never showed up.
* Roundup…
* Will 75% tax hike fix Illinois budget mess? - Maybe for only 4 years, some say
* Chicago aldermen critical of proposed income tax increase
* Businesses say proposal is too taxing - State’s plan to boost corporate rate could send companies packing, they warn
* Finke: On tax-rate issue, it’s just Quinn being Quinn
* Will tax hike produce ‘giant sucking sound‘ of jobs leaving Illinois?
* Chuck Sweeny: Lawmakers sing a new tax tune after elections
* Amazon may fight state’s proposed tax on online sales
* Area Lawmakers React to Possible Tax Hike
* Moylan In Springfield For Casino, Gaming Showdown
LIVE session coverage...
- heet101 - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 2:46 pm:
Your mention of the KKK is at very best regrettable. That nearly 100 year old factoid has little to do with the issue at hand. Gving more money to politicians in Springfield is akin to prescribing a crackhead more crack rocks to help him kick his habit.
- Shore - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 2:47 pm:
you could also add that their football team is out of the nfl playoffs and ours is not.
- Uhm... - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 2:51 pm:
Remember when the Colts handed the Bears a loss in the Superbowl? Just sayin’.
- Bill F. - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 3:07 pm:
Yeah, Daniels’ snarky bluster is the haughty huff of a man who doesn’t want you to look too deeply into his own issues. The Indiana miracle is a Potemkin Village at best. To wit:http://www.wthr.com/story/12066021/reality-check-indiana-job-numbers-dont-add-up
- Bookworm - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 3:21 pm:
Slightly off topic, but for all those people insisting that they are going to move to the no-tax business-friendly paradise of Texas… you might want to check this out first:
http://www.businessinsider.com/texas-state-budget-crisis-2011-1#
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/07/opinion/07krugman.html
Seems that the Lone Star State is now confronting a $25 billion (yes, BILLION) deficit of its own over the next two fiscal years… proportionately nearly as bad as ours or California’s…. and with very little fat left to cut. Hmmm, what will they do?
Believe me, I am no fan of this latest tax plan but those who think the grass is going to be so much greener elsewhere MAY find out otherwise.
That being said, I think we need a better balance of BOTH tax hikes and spending cuts, not all one or all the other. I still wonder if the 5 percent plan isn’t going to be just a bluff to make a 4 percent income tax look like a reasonable compromise.
- wordslinger - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 3:59 pm:
Mitch has Little Man Syndrome. He sees himself as a president, but he might even be shorter than James Madison (5′4″). Neither he or his office will say how tall he is.
Plus, who’s going to vote for president such a snarky little dude? Indiana’s unemployment rate is the same as Illinois’, and their economy is much smaller.
I haven’t noticed too many miracles going on in Gary, Hammond, Elkhart, or Terre Haute. Small town and rural Indiana has the same problems as similar areas around the country.
The powers-that-be in that state think if everything is hunky-dory in downtown Indy (not the bad neighborhoods) and Bloomington, they’ve done their job.
(Of course, they can’t play football OR basketball in Bloomington, these days).
- Quizzical - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 4:05 pm:
Wordslinger — I don’t know if everything is so hunky dory in Indianapolis
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/shots-of-indianapolis-skyline-to-depress-nation-du,17163/
- wordslinger - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 4:22 pm:
Quizz, at least they finally filled those two big holes they had for 10 years in the middle of downtown. It made old Block 37 look like a well-thought-out plan.
Still, you have to wonder why the last two mayors of Indy bailed from the state as soon as their terms were up. Hudnut first moved to Chicago, and now he’s in DC. Goldsmith is in New York.
Of other Famous Sons, Quayle is in Arizona, and I imagine Evan will stay in Washington, like his old man did. Mitch himself was a Washington creature forever until he decided to run for something. Not exactly ringing endorsements for the quality of life.
Having said all that, the Indiana War Memorial in downtown Indy is a magnificent structure and well worth a half-hour stop when you’re driving through the state (as everyone is).
- Quinn T. Sential - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 4:57 pm:
Has anyone surveyed the rail company that was initially contemplating locating in Wisconsin; and was being courted by Illinois, about what their position is a on the proposed increases to the corportae tax rate?
It will not just be Indiana that is delighted, but Wisconsin, Iowa, Missouri, and Kentucky as well.
- wordslinger - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 4:58 pm:
Mouse, who has a 10 billion rainy-day fund, Indiana? You’re quite mistaken. Look it up.
Why would it be a good idea for government to be banking that much of taxpayer money, anyway?
No one’s trying to stop you. Like Schnorf said, don’t let the door….
- wordslinger - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 6:05 pm:
Bill F., after reading the link you posted, I don’t know if even Blago would have had the Testicular Virility to peddle the lies that the Daniels Administration does about job creation.
Anyone who wants to keep singing the praises of Daniels and Indiana needs to read it first.
Excellent investigative reporting by a TV station.
http://www.wthr.com/story/12066021/reality-check-indiana-job-numbers-dont-add-up
- Pot calling kettle - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 6:25 pm:
If Indiana had our current, lower tax rate they would probably be in a similar budgetary situation. You don’t see them trying to match our lower tax rate; you see see us trying to match their higher one.
- Bookworm - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 6:57 pm:
What I want to know, and I’ll admit don’t currently have the inclination to spend several hours online hunting for this information, is this: has any other state ever had the economic sky fall on them overnight due to a SINGLE large tax increase?
If you believe some of the bloggers this tax hike will instantly turn us into “another Detroit” or worse. Is there really any concrete evidence that this can or will happen?
I can see where certain states or large cities gain a reputation over time for being business-unfriendly and high tax (e.g. “Taxachusetts”). IL already has that reputation to some extent, and we should try not to make it any worse.
But Rome was not built in a day, and Detroit (or Cleveland, or Newark or Gary or Cairo) was not un-built in a day either.
So if anyone happens to know, off the top of their head, an instance in which an entire state’s economy plunged into irreversible decline due to a single large tax hike, I’d like to hear about it.
Also, I know economic conservatives are fond of saying “you can’t tax your way to prosperity.” That may be true, but does anyone know of an instance in which a state or nation un-taxed its way to prosperity even when the cost of doing so involved allowing much of its infrastructure and social safety net to fall into ruin?
- Fed up - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 7:00 pm:
No matter what 5.25% is to high. Especially when you have a flip flop liar like Quinn as gov and typical tax and spend liberal dem like cullerton running the state they will spend it all and we will be right back in a deficit in a few years. Madigan actually looks like he is trying to kinda be fiscally responsible. After the last 6 years of complete dem control and the state in financial ruins the last thing Quinn cullerton and madigan deserve is more taxpayer money.
- steve schnorf - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 7:02 pm:
The Klan thing is a good point. I don’t remember anyone in Illinois stopping trains searching for the Pope. And actually, as a real mark, I think, of Illinois’ common sense, our GANGSTERS threw the Klan out.
- Bookworm - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 7:49 pm:
“That Klan thing is a good point”
In all fairness to Hoosiers, Indiana wasn’t the only state run by the Klan in its heyday. In Oregon, of all places, the Klan had enough political muscle to pass a bill outlawing Catholic parochial schools (the U.S. Supreme Court eventually overturned this law).
Also, wasn’t Gov. Len Small (lest we forget, he, not Blago, was the first governor to be arrested in office) rather chummy with the Klan, although he didn’t go around advertising that fact? So let’s not feel too superior here.
- Anonymous - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 8:07 pm:
Rich are you using the Klan to justify the tax increase? Seems ridiculous
- wordslinger - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 8:08 pm:
The Indiana Klan story is riveting for many reasons: the incredibly widespread membership among white males, the eventual total control of Indiana government, and the savage perversity of its all-powerful leader, DC Stephenson.
Also, the Klan’s high-watermark years in Indiana — along with their virulent anti-Catholicism — coincided exactly with the rise of Catholic Notre Dame football in South Bend. The Klan’s era was the same as that of Rockne, the Gipper (the real one), and the Four Horsemen.
- bored now - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 8:30 pm:
when i was at m.i.t., we were encouraged to help recruit future students. except for those from indiana. because of their poor science education standards, there was special scrutiny from m.i.t.’s physics dept for indiana students.
i seriously doubt that has changed.
living in the south suburbs now, i know lots of people who have moved over to indiana. strangely, after they have moved, many of them complain about the poor condition of indiana’s (local) roads, the lack of cable where they moved to, etc. i can’t imagine what daniels is proud of…
- R.C. - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 9:25 pm:
Mitch can also thank the Indiana’s public education budget which he drained to keep the state in the black.
- Michelle Flaherty - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 9:39 pm:
They might be neighbors but Indy and Illinois aren’t really that similar.
Indianapolis is like a big Peoria (and I like Peoria). But it’s no Chicago. It has neither the amenities, the services, the infrastucture, etc of Chicago. It’s a nice city. But it’s not a world class city.
Mitch Daniels is managing a double A team thinking he’s in the bigs.
The only think he has in common with Illinois leaders is his height.
- Michelle Flaherty - Sunday, Jan 9, 11 @ 9:43 pm:
Oh, and I forgot about Navistar. All those engineers and corporate types seemed excited about moving out of Hoosierville and to to the Chicago ‘burbs. Maybe they ran out of rainbows and unicorns over in Indianaland.
Paging Mitch Daniels, Mitch Daniels, care to comment? Or does this run afoul of the plot line that puts you in the White House?
And one final point, the key difference between Illinois and Indiana government is that Illinois is based on local control, that’s why we have so many school districts, etc. Indiana is a state-knows best set up where the state bureaucrats control far more of what goes on at the local level.
Wanna adopt that model here?
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Monday, Jan 10, 11 @ 2:20 am:
Michelle makes the most important point.
Site Selection Magazine, the premiere business reporters on state business climate, rank Illinois 15th and Indiana 35th.
A key factor is workforce education and skills, far-and-a-way the #1 factor employers must look at when deciding where to locate their business.
The #1 ranking by the way goes to Massachusetts…not to surprising given the hyper-concentration of higher education there.
- Anonymous - Monday, Jan 10, 11 @ 7:11 am:
YDD -
My only question is how many spots will Illinois rise on the ‘States with the Lowest Tax Rates’ list after the tax increase passes?
- wordslinger - Monday, Jan 10, 11 @ 7:34 am:
JJ, Mitch is a big boy (in certain respects). He dishes it out.
It’s like the old line from “Animal House”: “They can’t abuse our pledges like that. Only we can abuse our pledges like that.”
- Honest Abe - Monday, Jan 10, 11 @ 9:09 am:
Rich,
As to the differences between Indiana and Illinois, take a look at Jim Ridings’ recent biography of Len Small, “Governors and Gangsters.” If Small was not a member of the Ku Klux Klan, he was definitely Klan friendly.
The Klan held rallies in Springfield during the Twenties and were permitted to assemble on state property.
- Jim - Monday, Jan 10, 11 @ 9:22 am:
The reality is that Indiana is in far better shape than Illinois, and for the simple reason that their elected officials aren’t nearly as irresponsible as ours.
To go back nearly 100 years to find something to insult Indiana about is a real stretch. Illinois’ style of governance is indefensible, and everyone who pays attentions knows it. that’s why the state is in a shambles.
- Responsa - Monday, Jan 10, 11 @ 9:41 am:
It’s always fun to pick on people and the neighboring state. But—
Until quite recently for many years our family had a weekend vacation cabin on a lake in central Indiana, so I know this: The jobs do pay less there, but all housing is way cheaper, restaurants are cheaper, golf games and movies are cheaper, groceries and gasoline are astoundingly less expensive, and property taxes on the very nicest and high end (permanent) houses in Carmel, Bloomington and Columbus (Indiana) are about equal to taxes on a modest house in the Chicago suburbs.
Every time our obscene County property tax bill arrives here, I am a little nostalgic for the Hoosier state.
- Living in Oklahoma - Monday, Jan 10, 11 @ 11:37 am:
Watching us try to defend Illinois against the verbal attacks from Mitch Daniels is pretty telling. Actually its really pathetic. There is simply no comparison. Illinois is a laugh stock financially and politically. We deserve every shot that is fired our way from Indiana and many other states if they should so chose. In summation, Illinois is a joke and that is why we are being talked about as such.
- Living In Oklahoma - Monday, Jan 10, 11 @ 11:53 am:
Also, then Klan remark is beneath this blog, and qualifies as a gratuitous insult.
- Rich Miller - Monday, Jan 10, 11 @ 11:54 am:
It’s an historical fact. The remark stands.
- piling on - Monday, Jan 10, 11 @ 12:04 pm:
Indiana raised its taxes right before the recession hit. It was coupled with stiff local property tax restrictions.
the end result is, because of the state tax increase, the state treasurery didn’t suffer as big a hit. And all the local program cuts are being blamed on the recession, not higher state taxes.
If Daniels intentionally timed it this way, he’s a genius. But otherwise he was lucky and had Illinois or anyone else raised taxes right before the recession, they’d be more stable now and be touting their ability to manage this crisis.
- RetiredStateEmployee - Monday, Jan 10, 11 @ 12:26 pm:
Let’s back up a little bit. All governments lie about their finances. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/JubaksJournal/why-every-nation-cooks-its-books.aspx
I would say that probably every state lies too. The problem for us is that Illinois has lied for decades, small amounts at first but now the lie is huge. Whether it’s deferring pension payments, infrastructure, education or something else, I wouldn’t believe any state’s accounting for their solvency.
- JP - Monday, Jan 10, 11 @ 4:45 pm:
Daniels spoke at an Illinois Policy Institute lunch the day Chicago got bonged by the Olympic selection committee. Daniels made a couple of funny jokes, but also said that governments move in cycles and IL was at a low ebb but would undoubtedly bounce back — don’t despair. Same thing happened in Indiana. I think IL does have more potential than IN but it doesn’t matter if you work to negate those advantages. IL is in trouble; many people don’t have to live here.
- wordslinger - Monday, Jan 10, 11 @ 6:29 pm:
Daniels thinks he’ running for president. He was a pretty sharp guy back in the day when he worked for Reagan, and the GOP wasn’t scared of the Tea Party and Militia types.
I wish for Reagan now. He would slap down the ignorant yabbos of today so hard and so fast they wouldn’t know what hit them.