78 Comments - Trib Reader - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:08 am: I think Eric Zorn at the Trib was correct a few days ago when he said that this kind of behavior isn’t in the spirit of representative democracy, and that there should be rules blocking this kind of thing. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:13 am: I heard that Walker was working on a compromise with the Dems, and that recall pressure helped cause the vote. This is quite interesting. I’ve never seen anything like it. - Davey Boy Smithe - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:14 am: A guy I work with mom is WI State Senator (R) and she’s telling him that she’s getting death threats. Sounds like fun up there. - VanillaMan - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:14 am: This is pitiful. Exactly how did leaving help represent opposing views within the Legislature? Giving this to the union to shout out for the past four weeks was idiotic. This is so pitiful. The whining, complaining and accusations will continue until this supposed legislators return to representing their constituents. Right now, only one side is being heard or represented where it counts, under the Dome. You cannot have representative democracy without representatives. Fleeing was stupid. - dave - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:15 am: A couple of points 1 - Watch this video of what happened last night, when the Republicans completely disregarded WI law on open meetings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5sx-4i5y0E 2 - The bill did NOT stip the fiscal measures out of the bill, and in turn probably violated the quorum law as well. - so... - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:19 am: Those mean old Republicans, using their huge majorities elected by the people of Wisconsin to enact legislation. Who do they think they are?! - wordslinger - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:20 am: –“We were really confused,” he said. “We didn’t know which kind of Scott Walker we were dealing with. Was it the public guy or the private guy?”– I think they know the answer to that question. Walker was clear in his conversation with “David Koch” that he would not really negotiate, but would hold bad-faith talks for p.r. reasons and/or to trick the Dems into the Capitol. Like the man said, you only get one Big Lie. Doubt this Pyrric victory was worth it. If yesterday’s Senate move was a slam-dunk, they would have done it weeks ago. Looks like they’re headed to court. Heck of a way to run a railroad. Oh wait, Walker doesn’t want railroads, either. - FredformerAnon - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:20 am: I don’t understand why people in Wisconsin think Democracy wasn’t served well when 14 duley elected people fled the state to prevent legislation from coming up for a vote. As Obama said, elections have consequences. Now they want to use recall because of a sour taste. This kind of behavior is why recall is a bad idea. - wordslinger - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:25 am: # –You cannot have representative democracy without representatives. Fleeing was stupid. – Yeah, everybody’s lost but you. The Senators, the tens of thousands at the Capitol, and the 65% of Cheeseheads who polls showed wanted Walker to cut a deal with them. It ain’t over. - OneMan - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:27 am: Wordslinger – It isn’t over and I am not saying it isn’t right. But Illinois wouldn’t be in the same mess it is in now if a party was willing to do unpopular financial (and other) stuff without it being a lame duck session… Just sayin. - OneMan - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:30 am: Also I would suspect that the majority party in the WI legislature would understand the open meeting laws and other rules concerning quorum and the rest. - Small Town Liberal - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:31 am: - But Illinois wouldn’t be in the same mess it is in now if a party was willing to do unpopular financial (and other) stuff without it being a lame duck session… - Yeah, and if the other party was willing to do unpopular stuff ever it might help also. - Dirt Digger - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:33 am: I generally hold that if I find a tactic obnoxious in the other side, it’s equally obnoxious in my own. So also with this. Additionally, just like the identical stunt in Texas a few years ago, it didn’t work. And it’s only three months into the term; I am skeptical this will be the top issue in November 2012. (Then again I said the same thing about the stimulus in 2009 so I have been wrong about these things before) - FedUpAlready - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:40 am: Walker did try to compromise. The emails released earlier this week already proved that. The hiding Dems turned it down flat thinking they had the upper hand. They didn’t. Cry me a river. - Anonymous - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:41 am: Hmm. Let’s compare the behavior of the union protestors during yesterday’s vote with the behavior of Tea Partiers during the vote on healthcare refprm. Did they storm the U.S. Capitol, ignoring the instrucions from law enforcement? Nope. Did they leave their protest sites littered with garbage? No again. - Secret Square - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:44 am: What I find most disturbing is the way the Capitol police up there are letting people flood into the capitol building to the point where it is becoming physically dangerous. Yes, I understand they don’t want to stifle anyone’s free speech, or look like the senior Mayor Daley’s “Gestapo in the streets of Chicago” in 1968. But do they really HAVE to allow every single demonstrator into the building to the point where it poses a structural collapse hazard? If free speech does not include the right to shout “fire!” in a crowded theater, then would it not also exclude the right to create obvious fire, stampede, or structural hazards in a public building? - OneMan - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:48 am: Small Town Liberal – All the Republicans asked for was the Democrats to show up, they didn’t ask them to vote for it. They didn’t whine about needing cover or anything else. They had a plan, an unpopular one and decided to act on it, without apparently deep worries about keeping their majorities (or if they did they put them aside). How unique… - Pat Robertson - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:54 am: Those evil Republicans! Manipulating the procedural rules to outflank the Democrats’ manipulations of the procedural rules, and actually voting on legislation! - just sayin' - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:58 am: Where’s Old Man Daley with the riot police when you need him? He knew how to deal with dirty hippies. - Tom Smith - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:58 am: Hopefully our legislators wake up and see the we the people have had enough. - Small Town Liberal - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:59 am: - They had a plan, an unpopular one and decided to act on it, without apparently deep worries about keeping their majorities - You see, this just means you don’t understand why they’re doing this. The goal is to defund the public employee unions so their competition doesn’t won’t have money. They’re doing this so they can keep their majorities. And Illinois ain’t Wisconsin, the GOP here might as well not show up. - Justice - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 9:59 am: Fleeing was indeed stupid. I like the idea of no unions in education or government. Nothing against the fine folks, just don’t like the way unions control the government and destroy the education system. Say what you may, even use great eloquence, Walker did a good thing. Perhaps our legislators could take a cue from Wisconsin. - Small Town Liberal - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:00 am: Dang it, get rid of either doesn’t or won’t, need more coffee. - Honest Abe - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:00 am: I watched the video from Youtube. The room was filled with media types and there were also some protesters in the room. A couple of those present shouted during the proceeding and others chanted as the state senators exited. What is the opening meeting violation? That the room would not accommodate more spectators or news reporters? It seems clear that the meeting was not closed to the public. As to the other complaint raised by the state representative about the meeting being called on two hours notice, it sounds like that dispute turns on the phrase unless “good cause” can be shown to hold a meeting on less than twenty-four hours notice. Reasonable minds can differ, but for the state representative to suggest that a legislature being stymied into inactivity for about three weeks due to protests marches and legislators fleeing the Capitol is not “an emergency” may be a stretch. - Generation X - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:03 am: To a Voter “You reap what you sow?” Are you freaking kidding me? Its ok if violence is done to the Republicans because some people dont like what they have done policy wise? Its ok to “go postal” because ones livelihood is messed with? Its not like anyone lost their job, they just might not get a big raise every year. That is a pathetic point of view - OneMan - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:04 am: The goal is to defund the public employee unions so their competition doesn’t won’t have money Yeah lets ask Jim Oberweis and Blair Hull how money is the key to winning. Also doesn’t a situation where you fund the election of the guys who help decided how much you get paid seem a little unique to you? - jerry 101 - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:06 am: I would like to invite Wisconsin’s best and brightest public servants take a long look at Illinois. Especially their best elementary & High School teachers, as well as the University of Wisconsin’s top faculty members. The schools of Illinois could use more high quality teachers, and the University of Illinois and other institutions around the state would certainly benefit from higher quality researchers and teachers. I’d like to extend the same warm invitation to the best and brightest of Iowa and Ohio and Indiana, and any other states where public employee rights are being stolen. I’d also like to thank the republicans for ensuring that the Democrats will win in Ohio, Indiana, Iowa, and Wisconsin in 2012. While Union money may skew heavily Democratic, the union vote was barely Democratic in recent elections. I have a feeling that’s about to change. - Small Town Liberal - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:06 am: - just don’t like the way unions control the government and destroy the education system. - What are you talking about? There is a reason Illinois has one of the more educated populations. Maybe you ought to move to Virginia where there isn’t a teacher’s union. - OneMan - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:07 am: Wait Jerry101 small town liberal just told me this is all about Republican’s keeping their majorities… Will you guys please get your narrative about how Republicans are evil consistent… - Small Town Liberal - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:08 am: - Also doesn’t a situation where you fund the election of the guys who help decided how much you get paid seem a little unique to you? - About as unique as funding the guys who help decide how big of a tax break you’re going to get to pad your already well lined pockets. - wordslinger - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:12 am: –Ahhhh the halcyon days of the ’60s. Taking over the student union, non-negotiable demands. Just a bit more grey in the pony tails.– What situation are you referring to? It doesn’t sound like the one in Wisconsin. From what I’ve seen, the grey ponytails belonged to older female teachers. And the young cops and firefighters who were marching with them had crew cuts and no grey at all. But, I’ll give you one thing — dealing in stereotypes sure saves time and wear and tear on the old noodle. - OneMan - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:15 am: Yes, it is exactly the same STL. So in your mind then the Democrats should refuse all corporate money, right? Just take money from the hard working regular folks (and entities that represent them)? - Rich Miller - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:17 am: People, it’s time to calm down a bit. This isn’t happening in Illinois, after all. Take a deep breath before commenting. Deletions will begin soon. - Honest Abe - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:19 am: I am sure everyone has been enjoying the Wisconsin spectacle and it sure has provided some vicarious thrills. I mean it is not like Illinois has a balanced budget or a repaired public pension system that is fully funded. I think that our attention would be better focused on the hard times and difficult decisions in Springfield for those of us who remain in Illinois — for the time being. - Anonymous - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:20 am: There are two reasons public unions should not be allowed: 1. You cannot bargain against yourself; that’s not a bargaining process. A public union votes for the people who then negotiate against it. It therefore can simply vote for people who will loot the public - and does. 2. The ultimate check and balance on a union in the private sector is that if it manages to overpower management and obtain an unsupportable (and unpayable) compensation package the firm goes out of business. This causes ALL of the union employees to lose their jobs at once. - wordslinger - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:20 am: –Its ok if violence is done to the Republicans because some people dont like what they have done policy wise? Its ok to “go postal” because ones livelihood is messed with?– What violence are you referring to? There’s been none in Madison during weeks of protests. No one’s even gone to jail. The coppers have consistently said there’s been less trouble at the Capitol than there is after the average Badger football game. Strawman. - just sayin' - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:22 am: “This isn’t happening in Illinois, after all.” Fair enough. Big difference is in WI the Dems leave and do nothing. In IL the Repubs just stay around and do nothing. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:24 am: So the Wisconsin GOP waited four weeks to do this? Good plan there guys. If you could strip out the collective bargaining stuff and vote on it separately, why did you wait so long? Way to give the opposition free momentum and turn this into a national cause. Watch out when the pendulum swings back. It’s not going to be pretty for Walker and the GOP in Wisconsin. Trivia question: Anyone know in which state AFSCME was founded? And while you’re off work this weekend, enjoying the personal time you’re afforded due to the 40 hour work week, remember to thank a union member. - Secret Square - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:28 am: The Illinois General Assembly exempts itself from our Open Meetings Act. Does WI do the same? - ironman - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:30 am: I am glad to see somebody stand up to the status quo. Quinn would cave in to the democratic unions of Illinois. So when do the people who pay our salary, our insurance and our pay raises make less…tax payers. I feel that state employees have been getting away with benefits and salaries for a while. Gov employees don’t dictate there benefits and salary increases.. wake up and use a little sense.. - dave - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:37 am: @Honest Abe What is the opening meeting violation? That the room would not accommodate more spectators or news reporters? It seems clear that the meeting was not closed to the public. The open meeting violation is because of the lack of notice. There is no argument that can be made to justify the hearing being necessary under a “good cause.” Really? The hearing couldn’t wait 24 hours? That is complete and utter BS. It was blatantly illegal, which, frankly, is why the chair of the conference committee refused to actually hear the argument about the open meetings act. - Kasich Walker, Jr. - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:41 am: “..A public union votes for the people who then negotiate against it.” Who doesn’t support those whom they hope to protect their interests? “The ultimate check and balance on a union in the private sector is that if it manages to overpower management and obtain an unsupportable (and unpayable) compensation package the firm goes out of business. ” Unions didn’t drive US manufacturers overseas. Shareholder interests drove manufacturing out of the country for wages far below US standards. By the way, union pension & Health/Welfare funds should flee index funds unless those index funds are actively managed to invest only in corporations that protect US Labor. - jaranath - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:42 am: I doubt there’s actually anything shady or unconstitutional about this (or at least I dunno Wisconsin law, but the legislators should), but I just don’t understand why it was handled this way, from start to finish.  Why didn’t they do this in the first place, or do it a few days in when it became clear the cover of “budget repair” was blown? They had the votes from the start or the Dems wouldn’t have fled. Now it looks as if the Reps lost a lot of political sympathy in the polls and maybe, with all this recall talk, some seats. Did they just misjudge the situation? - Plutocrat03 - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:46 am: Let’s see now, the non-negotiable demands are the democrat senators who have fled the state refusing to come back until they get their way, taking over the Capitol is like taking over the student union. Video footage has a lot of boomer types getting quite animated…. It is Madison after all. It it possible to have a discourse without turning to personal attacks? - aaronsinger - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:47 am: “I feel that state employees have been getting away with benefits and salaries for a while.” Yes, those damn teacher sucking off the public teat should go without benefits and salaries! Why don’t we just contract all public education? Surely the market is a solution! Hire the company that will do it for the lowest bid! Teachers at minimum wage, with no representation if a parent sues for whatever reason, so they’ll have to buy the equivalent of malpractice insurance. Talk about a race to the bottom. Wall Street screwed us over, but those damn public employees weren’t hurt as much as I was, so they’re damn well gonna pay. I want them to have no pension if I don’t have one! - just sayin' - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:48 am: I can’t believe no reporter has asked Bill Brady about the WI situation. What would Brady be doing now had he become gov? My guess is pretty much what Brady is doing now, i.e. mostly nothing. The GOP here is dominated by the unions nearly as much as the Democratic party here. Lots of the downstate GOP county chairmen who backed Brady in the primary are IDOC and IDOT workers for example. It would be interesting to hear from Brady. In fact I haven’t heard a single IL GOP official say anything supportive about the WI Republicans. Sure, they’ll make fun of the “fleabaggers” - but that’s just more of the game playing. - Kasich Walker, Jr. - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:49 am: “It it possible to have a discourse without turning to personal attacks?” I haven’t heard reports of attacks, but taking away the collective bargaining even after getting other concessions should be taken personally. - wordslinger - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:51 am: From the Wisconsin State Journal: – The new bill removes fiscal elements of the proposal but still curbs collective bargaining and increases employee payments in pension and health benefits. The changes would amount to an approximate 8 percent pay cut for public workers. After the session, Senate Republicans scattered, leaving no one to explain how they managed to pass components of the bill that seemed to have a fiscal impact, including changes in pensions and benefits, without the 20 senators needed to vote on fiscal matters. In a statement, Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said he had consulted with the Legislature’s attorneys and “every item in tonight’s bill follows the letter of the law.”– They’re throwing the long ball, a desperate act, as public opinion continued to go against them, according to the polls. If it was a sure thing, they would have done it weeks ago. http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_8747fa04-4a74-11e0-8e6b-001cc4c03286.html - Generation X - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:52 am: -What violence are you referring to? There’s been none in Madison during weeks of protests. No one’s even gone to jail. The coppers have consistently said there’s been less trouble at the Capitol than there is after the average Badger football game. Strawman.- It was a direct response to a poster who suggested that these state senators ” are reaping what they sow” in regards to death threats. My post was to point out the absurdity of the previous posters position, not to suggest there has been any violence - Responsa - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:53 am: ==40 hour work week, remember to thank a union member== That would be a very fair and legit talking point if we are referring to union history and if we are honoring and thanking the actual union members from decades ago who worked and suffered in a very different time. Very fair. But, in truth, today’s public unions had nothing to do with that, and the “workers’ rights” they seem to be fighting for relate mostly to seniority, job security, and pensions. To many Americans this is not remotely the same thing, and just does not resonate the way the 40 hour work week did and things like mine safety still do. Rich had a great column a couple weeks ago about old school racial politics and politicians, and pointed out how so many political narratives, tactics and assumptions that “used” to work with the public simply do not work or even apply today in the 21st century. Public Union leadership and members might want to cogitate on the concepts in that article to see if some of his insights could also apply to them. - A Voter - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:56 am: To Generation X “You reap what you sow?” Are you freaking kidding me? Its ok if violence is done to the Republicans because some people dont like what they have done policy wise? Its ok to “go postal” because ones livelihood is messed with? Its not like anyone lost their job, they just might not get a big raise every year. That is a pathetic point of view” It is NOT OK for someone to “go postal”, but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone did. They lost more than just getting a big raise every year, they lost 8% of their income. How many households can afford to lose 8% of their income? Seems to me, that would be quite stressful. - Ghost - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 10:59 am: VM how are they not representing their constiuents? While I am sure the use of derogatory terms emphasises the logical basis for your comment, your conclusion tat they ar not serving their consituents by acting to prevent bad law is unsupported. Your premise that one must assist in passing bad law in order to be serving the voters; but acting to keep bad laws from being passed is a failure to serve the voters, is a fallatious conclusion. They are doing exactly what they were elected to do, protect their constituents from bad laws. - OneMan - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 11:01 am: It is NOT OK for someone to “go postal”, but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone did. They lost more than just getting a big raise every year, they lost 8% of their income. How many households can afford to lose 8% of their income? Seems to me, that would be quite stressful. I thought that 2% reduction in everyone’s household income in Illinois wasn’t a big deal? - A Voter - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 11:05 am: “I thought that 2% reduction in everyone’s household income in Illinois wasn’t a big deal?” I see you must have been a supporter of the Illinois income tax increase. - wordslinger - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 11:07 am: –I thought that 2% reduction in everyone’s household income in Illinois wasn’t a big deal? – Who said it wasn’t a big deal? Not even proponents. In addition, it’s 2% of taxable income, not household income. And last I checked, an 8% cut in wages is a lot bigger than 2% of taxable income. - Kasich Walker, Jr. - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 11:12 am: “…in truth, today’s public unions had nothing to do with that (40 hour work week)…. does not resonate the way the 40 hour work week did and things like mine safety still do.” +++++++++++++++ Public reaction suggests the struggle to retain collective bargaining resonates in Madison & throughout the US. A likely alternative to the removal of collective bargaining is surely strikes possibly followed by — with the likes of Walker in charge — repressive violence. - Concerned Observer - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 11:15 am: (well actually, I’m not too ‘concerned’ on this topic, since it IS in Wisconsin after all. But still…) FedUpAlready: It’s disingenous to say that because Democrats didn’t jump at the ‘compromises’ Walker put forth in those emails, the Democrats somehow overplayed their hand. If you and I have 100 pennies to divvy up, and I say you have to give me all 100 of them, you’re going to say no. So if three weeks later I say, “okay, you can have ten pennies, but I still get 90″, and you still say no because you don’t believe that’s a fair division of the pennies, then how is it my fault when you pull a knife and take all 100 pennies from the center of the table? I won’t say that Walker didn’t offer some sort of compromise, but just because a compromise is offered doesn’t make it acceptable. And Democrats didn’t reject it ‘flat-out’, as you put it. They said it wasn’t acceptable, and said they hoped the emails laid out a blueprint for further negotiations. Further negotiations, though, weren’t acceptable for the Republicans. They pulled the knife and took the pennies. Whether doing so was legal will probably be decided in the courts, and whether doing so was ‘correct’ will most certainly be decided by public opinion. Which, so far, appears to be against the Republicans…but time will tell. As for those who claim Tea Party health care protests were all sunshine and light compared to Wisconsin…well, at least no one threw racial and homosexual slurs in Wisconsin, as they did to sitting Congresspersons on Capitol Hill, if I remember correctly. No one on either side comes out looking good in either battle. That’s a pretty sure sign that tough decisions are being made (regardless of whether you think they’re the ‘right’ decisions). - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 11:16 am: Unions need to step up and contribute to solve a budget crisis, just like the Wisconsin public unions did. Public unions are not the sole cause of economic crises. All statistics I’ve seen on income show that the top earners’ gains have been substantial while everyone else’s incomes have gained little or have stagnated. Unions have also decreased, so there appears to be little or no correlation to stagnant wages caused by unions. Unions and public workers have done absolutely the right thing in protesting. It’s time we all look at income disparity in the U.S. We need balance, and there is no balance when the top earners get substantially wealthier while the vast majority of us bear economic burdens. - Responsa - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 11:31 am: ==well, at least no one threw racial and homosexual slurs in Wisconsin..== You’ve apparently been on vacation out of the country for the past several weeks and away from a news source. Hope it was warm wherever you were. - cassandra - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 11:41 am: Still, why aren’t the unions working harder to unionize the private sector, which now has, I believe, under 10 percent work force unionization. Seems like the public sector is easy pickings, Wisconsin notwithstanding. Buy a few politicians with large campaign contributions and beef up their precinct teams at election time and presto, big raises, no-layoff agreements, cheap health insurance, secure pensions unaffected by the vagaries of the stock market, long paid vacation, job security protected by seniority and so on. Paid for by the rest of us. An economic life apart. Meanwhile, despite union rhetoric (and seems like it’s all rhetoric) about the evil corporate class, moguls in charge of large non-unionized businesses sail off with the treasure chest. - Plutocrat03 - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 11:46 am: The majority of any public budget is compensation. It is disingenuous to argue that public unions have not played a part in the rise of costs of compensation. Does anyone else remember the Niles teacher strike which had the purpose to retain the distinction for highest teacher compensation in the state? As someone who has been involved in public sector labor negotiations years ago, I can tell you that there have been cases of overreach the side of the public unions for some time. My favorite example of an excess is the annual COLA increase. It is not tied to anything tangible and has become a 3+% baseline pay increase on the entire payroll. Note that while overall US union participation rates have decreased, the public unions have continued to thrive. - Generation X - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 11:52 am: So if 8% wages lost= people might go postal, what should the 9% unemployed do. Go nuclear? So I guess all those folks taking 24 furlough days might go postal because Quinn is reaping what he sowed. - Concerned Observer - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 11:53 am: Responsa, I did spend a week in Florida last month, and it was nice, thanks for asking Just did a google news search for Wisconsin Slur. I found a USA Today story that referenced a counter-protester using a racist slur against an 18-year-old camping out at the Dome, and…well, that’s about it. Try it yourself. Try a search for Wisconsin Racist and you won’t have much more luck. The only overt suggestions of racism come from blogs and commentators. You’ll find a slew of right-wing blogs suggesting the ‘liberal media’ is deliberately ignoring things, but that doesn’t exactly count as proof in my book. You’re probably right that I shouldn’t have made the blanket statement. But I still maintain — no one comes out looking good in any of this. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 11:54 am: ===Note that while overall US union participation rates have decreased, the public unions have continued to thrive.=== It’s kind of hard to off-shore teachers, cops and firefighters Pluto. - wordslinger - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 12:05 pm: –The majority of any public budget is compensation.– Not the State of Illinois’ budget, nor the State of Wisconsin’s budget, nor the United States of America’s budget. Not even close. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 12:11 pm: ===The majority of any public budget is compensation=== You ever read a budget? - Champaign Dweller - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 12:18 pm: I don’t think that Obama’s call for civility is working in Wisconsin. Then again, both he and Senator Durbin managed to insert themselves into what is a state issue for Wisconsin. It bothers me that when people don’t get their way, they resort to ugly threats, including one that a Wisconsin Republican received threatening to put a bullet in his head, or put bombs in locations where he goes. Have we now sunk to the level of terrorists? - wordslinger - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 12:25 pm: –Have we now sunk to the level of terrorists?– They’ve had tens of thousands of protesters in the streets of Madison for weeks without any violence or anyone going to jail. What were the terrorist acts? What are the threats you’re alleging? What do Obama and Durbin have to do with them? - ironman - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 12:36 pm: To A voter….what about people in the private sector, who have had a reduction in salaries due to higher insurance costs and pay more into their retirement… the union state employees have had it made…just like Quinn has hired a lot of new state employees by Feb. First…they are under the old retirement setup. Due has hired many key employees to fund the unions… - Rich Miller - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 12:39 pm: Champaign Dweller, tone it down. Now. - Plutocrat03 - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 12:51 pm: Depends on how you define the budget. Looking at the General fund with a department by department analysis….. From a 2011/12: Administration compensation costs 84% of the budget for that department - wordslinger - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 1:08 pm: Pluto, I have no idea what you’re trying to say. Are you suggesting that 84% of the GRF budget is “administration compensation?” - steve schnorf - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 1:36 pm: Just did a quick count in my head, so I may have missed a couple of things, but I would say about 20% of GRF is compensation, give or take - Secret Square - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 1:57 pm: Well, I’d say 100 percent of any state budget is “compensation” because ANY payment for any good or service obviously compensates somebody for providing it If by compensation we mean strictly “wages, salaries and benefits provided directly to state employees” then it certainly is NOT the majority of any budget. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 2:56 pm: “Buy a few politicians with large campaign contributions and beef up their precinct teams at election time and presto, big raises, no-layoff agreements, cheap health insurance, secure pensions unaffected by the vagaries of the stock market, long paid vacation, job security protected by seniority and so on. Paid for by the rest of us. An economic life apart.” Cassandra, How about buying a few politicians with vast sums of concentrated wealth (Koch Bros. et al.), multi-million-dollar bonuses and salaries (Wall St.), job security and wealth for generations, big raises (upper few per cent earners running away with the money). But they somehow earned the money, while we sponge off of you. I hope it gives you consolation that for the small raise I got this year, the workloads in my office grew astronomically due to retirements and no hiring. We are deluged with work, so know that you are getting your money’s worth. I don’t disagree that public unions have to pony up–especially here in Illinois, after the income tax increase. We seriously need perspective here–especially when we are called the “haves”, as if we have fleets of private jets, mansions all over the world, gated properties, etc. I for one didn’t get to fly to Kabul on your dime and have butt martinis with bra-clad male Wackenhut employees (darn!). - 42nd Ward - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 6:11 pm: I’m impressed that the demonstrations have been so peaceful, given the obvious drama. I am also impressed that meetings and votes are being held in rooms packed with cameras and media. The democratic process is operating as it should. - mushroom in the dark - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 8:07 pm: I posted a graph of government expenditures recently. Last I rememeber of the 50 billion dollar Illinois budget about 3 billion dollars is state employee wages and salaries and benefits. I think. But then do facts matter? - steve schnorf - Thursday, Mar 10, 11 @ 8:33 pm: mush, you’re just wrong. Wages are probably around 3B, employee health care is getting close to 2B, add employers share of FICA, plus pensions Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.