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Tuesday, Feb 26, 2013

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- Posted by Rich Miller        


53 Comments
  1. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 11:29 am:

    –After the gun amendments are debated. House Executive is scheduled to take up gay marriage.–

    Cong. 2nd, winter storm…

    Not much happening in Illinois today, Rich. Why don’t you take the rest of the day off and watch an encore of the Hawk’s record-setting thriller from last night?


  2. - RNUG - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 2:42 pm:

    Just realized with all this talk of distances from schools that if I go out in the alley and cut through the neighbor’s yard, I’m at the back edge of a grade school playground somewhere around 200 - 250 feet or so away. Even the sidewalk in front of my house would be about 350 to 400 feet. Because we have to drive around the block to get to it, I don’t think of it as being that close.


  3. - Mason born - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 2:47 pm:

    RNUG

    That is some of the unintended consequences inherent in many of these amendments. Same problem with the daycare thing if you run a daycare you litterly cannot carry the weapon to your car to go hunting.


  4. - Mason born - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 2:51 pm:

    Sorry wrong info there the problem is you cannot keep a operable firearm in your house if daycare there was a change from the last time i read it.


  5. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 2:54 pm:

    Looks like there are about 47 firm votes for Phelps’ amendment. That is pretty far from 71.

    I understand the delaying tactics too, but it’s still only February. How many caucuses do the House GOP need to understand they can’t prevent legislation from passing?


  6. - Realist - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 2:57 pm:

    The motion to send it back to committee was purely a party line vote, Madigan wants this done on the floor so all dems voted no, the 47 were all republicans. This in no way is a good indicator of where members stand on Phelps’ amendment or hb997


  7. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 3:03 pm:

    Thanks, good observation Realist. I stand corrected, even though I’m actually sitting.


  8. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 3:04 pm:

    –Sorry wrong info there the problem is you cannot keep a operable firearm in your house if daycare there was a change from the last time i read it.–

    I’m a lot of years removed from the unbelievable stress of obtaining good home daycare, but weapons in the house was one of my first questions regarding overall safety.

    I grew up on a farm and in farm country. I recall instances of kids who suffocated in corn cribs, got butchered by augers and died from exposure wandering into a cornfield.

    If you want to have a home daycare, I don’t think it’s too much to ask that you get the weapons out the house. Lock them up in a safe in the barn (just in case you forget to lock them up in the safe in the house). Put some plugs into the electrical outlets, too.

    And for those about to ask, yes, I can recall two instances in my life of accidental shootings by kids finding guns “secured” in the home.

    Kids find all sorts of stuff.


  9. - DownstateConservative - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 3:40 pm:

    The ILGA House session stream keeps cutting in and out. Does anyone have a place to go for a more reliable stream?


  10. - RNUG - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 3:46 pm:

    Mason Born,

    Yes, I know. I’m also about 500 feet from a church. Don’t think that would be an issue though because I go there and they are pretty much in the conservative camp … actually quite a bit more than I am personally on certain issues but Mrs. RNUG likes that church so that’s where we go.


  11. - Blue Dog - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 4:07 pm:

    So the “knowingly” provision of vaguely worded law is supposed to protect citizens from arrest & prosecution?

    Does Senator Trotter know this?


  12. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 4:09 pm:

    –I’m also about 500 feet from a church. Don’t think that would be an issue though because I go there and they are pretty much in the conservative camp –

    It’s “conservative” to take a gun to church?

    John, 11-35.


  13. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 4:14 pm:

    ===It’s “conservative” to take a gun to church?===

    I think that amendment is coming up later. Much later given the speed of this debate.

    Can’t they stipulate their objections to the poorly defined “adjacent” and “near” and be done with it? They’re going to vote no, and those are good reasons for voting no. And they’re going to lose.

    71-38-4. Those 38 are going to get hammered too.


  14. - Mason born - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 4:18 pm:

    word

    My concern is this if you run a home daycare the way this thing is worded after all the kids go home. you still cannot keep a weapon available to defend yourself. I know where you are it is unusual but not where i am. A lot of people have small daycares in their house. In facts my kids went to one everytime. Of course it was called Grandma’s .


  15. - RNUG - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 4:25 pm:

    word,

    we have several members who are law enforcement officers


  16. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 4:38 pm:

    – I know where you are it is unusual but not where i am. A lot of people have small daycares in their house.–

    Where I’m at is not different from you. I sent my kids to a paid home daycare. I still had those questions.

    I sent my kids to grandma’s, too, but I didn’t consider it home daycare. It was grandma’s.

    Come on, man, don’t peddle that folksy working-class farmer stuff my way. That’s where I came from, that’s my bread and butter.

    And believe it or not, a lot of working people send their kids to grandma’s house in the nasty ol’ big city, too.


  17. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 4:42 pm:

    –word,

    we have several members who are law enforcement officers –

    I don’t follow, dude.


  18. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 4:43 pm:

    ===Phelps: Could I carry in my own district office? Currie: No.

    Missouri wouldn’t allow that either. Churches are completely off limits as well (though I find that one odd–why shouldn’t the church choose like other private entities).

    It’s like no one in this debate has looked at the other states to figure this whole thing out.


  19. - Chris - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 4:45 pm:

    “Every mass shooting in past two years occurred in gun-free zones except that of US Rep Gabby Giffords.”

    Is one of the amendments to ban guns from *any* business? Spas? Coffee shops? Funeral homes? Sign manufacturing shops? City streets (sure, it was in Tulsa…)

    List of ‘mass’ shootings just from 2012:

    http://www.thenation.com/blog/171774/fifteen-us-mass-shootings-happened-2012-84-dead#

    Yeah, I know, The (commie) Nation. Get over it–each one has proper citation.

    No one should be able to make up their own ‘facts’.


  20. - Mason born - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 4:46 pm:

    Word

    Really that was folksy? Nice now i have a definition. Back to my point if you run a daycare should you be prohibited by this bill from ever being able to have an operable weapon at your house?


  21. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 4:48 pm:

    ===My concern is this if you run a home daycare the way this thing is worded after all the kids go home. you still cannot keep a weapon available to defend yourself. I know where you are it is unusual but not where i am. A lot of people have small daycares in their house. In facts my kids went to one everytime. Of course it was called Grandma’s .

    Of course, Grandma wasn’t regulated by the state. Conceal carry would not be allowed but it’s not concealed carry to have a firearm in the home even if it doubles as a business. That said, it better be in a gun safe while kids are present. IOW, if it is banned for the home owner, that would be in another area of the law such as the law regulating home child care.


  22. - Chris - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 4:48 pm:

    “Now we are going to start telling veterans that they cannot carry guns to their social clubs.”

    Isn’t it that they have to choose between carrying guns and having video poker?

    If it were *my* social club, I’d choose the guns, and I don’t even own one.


  23. - Mason born - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 4:51 pm:

    Arch

    I think a lot of the problem is the whole adjacent thing. Especially with no definition. IF i live next to a church does that mean i am banned in my own home? Also note the amendments all say no guns not no carry. Which is a little odd unless you are trying to make little poison pills to attack your opponents on later. The way some of them read you basically have to surrender your 2nd amendment rights in your own home because your neighbor has a daycare, or is gov or church. Currie basically admitted as such.


  24. - Mason born - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 4:54 pm:

    Arch

    The amendment states and the proponent just stated in debate you must have the weapon unloaded and locked. You may know more than me on this but nothing in the wording says when children are there. To me it reads in the property with no distinction. I agree it says you can own one but you cannot own an OPERABLE weapon. I.E. unloaded and cased at all times.


  25. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 4:58 pm:

    The law as it stands now from Illinois Legal Aid

    ===You also can’t have any handguns in your home, and your other guns and ammo must be locked away from any kids. If you have guns, you must tell the parents of the kids you care for.

    So you can’t have a handgun as is. This law is irrelevant–you just can’t wear a concealed firearm into the home facility either.


  26. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 4:58 pm:

    === IF i live next to a church does that mean i am banned in my own home?

    No, because that’s not conceal carry. It’s having a firearm in your home.


  27. - Dirty Red - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 5:11 pm:

    What do you do with a concealed firearm if you find yourself having to go to one of the places where carry is illegal?

    For example, I’d be interested to see how many weapons are stashed in downtown St. Louis. Many of the restaurants, hotels, private businesses, government buildings, and bars there forbid patrons from carrying in their establishments. Assuming for a second someone wants to follow the rules of the house, where are they stashing the gun? Storm drain? Dumpster? I can imagine that being an easy way to lose track of a firearm.

    I hope the good people at Redbox are watching this. I see an interesting business expansion opportunity. “Stash the gun. $1 DVD rentals.”


  28. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 5:11 pm:

    ====== IF i live next to a church does that mean i am banned in my own home?

    And actually there is an interesting issue here–conveying the gun from your home outward if you live next door. This is one of the issues I believe Todd was mentioning in relation to a ‘good’ bill or a ‘bad’ bill for ISRA–can you store or convey in cases like that. I can’t answer that right now, but he would be the person to answer that better.


  29. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 5:14 pm:

    ===What do you do with a concealed firearm if you find yourself having to go to one of the places where carry is illegal?

    Your car is usually the answer–though you have a decent idea. Though frankly there aren’t that many people carrying when you look at the numbers who self-report on surveys and such.

    Part of the issue I mentioned above is can you store a firearm in your car while you shop or such? Can the property owner ban that? Or is that allowed for the reason you mention? Generally in Missouri you are allowed to store in your car for most public places. That is not true for universities, but I don’t know for government offices.


  30. - Chris - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 5:15 pm:

    “I hope the good people at Redbox are watching this. I see an interesting business expansion opportunity. “Stash the gun. $1 DVD rentals.” ”

    That’s not a completely horrible idea.

    The most likely solution is a gun safe in the car–like these: http://www.center-of-mass.com/ –especially when/if the ban on CC on mass transit passes.


  31. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 5:30 pm:

    ==Back to my point if you run a daycare should you be prohibited by this bill from ever being able to have an operable weapon at your house?==

    I don’t think that’s the issue, but I think it would be a good idea to keep firearms out of home daycare while kids are present. Call me crazy.

    I think the issue at hand is whether you can go conceal-carry in a home daycare center.

    Personally, I never felt the need. I didn’t like Barney, and I can understand why you’d like to start blasting the TV when he’s on, but I never thought of it as a civil right.


  32. - Chris - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 5:33 pm:

    “Part of the issue I mentioned above is can you store a firearm in your car while you shop or such? Can the property owner ban that?”

    That’s the real nugget of the problem with the ‘proximity’ portion of the bans, right? So, you ban CC in church, or at the Casino, or in a govt. building, and ‘within X feet’ or in ‘adjoining areas’–so, can one not have a gun in one’s car parked outside? Or is that all resting on the definition of CC, and the de-holstering and locking up won’t (technically) be a violation?

    Gotta say, I do NOT trust the Police to enforce that correctly. Even tho you’d avoid a conviction, that gray area is too much power to the Police. (and, again, this is something highly, highly unlikely to ever affect me directly)


  33. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 6:00 pm:

    –Sacia: Do we think criminals would heed any law telling them to keep their guns out of amusement parks or other places?–

    Once again, J. Edgar Hoover puts the big brain on with the philosophy of:

    Criminals won’t obey laws, so laws are worthless.

    That’s a relief. Move on.


  34. - Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 6:09 pm:

    I find all the discussion about the inherent safety in having armed citizens in public places very interesting.

    Let’s assume concealed carry is allowed in a stadium or amusement park. Let’s further assume that a someone opens fire on the crowd. What happens next?

    Those with concealed weapons draw them and look around for the shooter. What do they see? Several other people with drawn guns. Who do they shoot? How do they know which gun holders are the good guys and which are the bad guys?

    I’m not opposed to concealed carry, but I fail to see how it works out in the proposed scenarios. Those cases with large crowds are terrible examples for the pro-concealed carry folks to be using.


  35. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 6:32 pm:

    Somebody should tell Sacia and others that this bill isn’t about preventing massacres. It’s about how, where and when Illinoisans can exercise their right to carry concealed weapons.

    The killing field rhetoric isn’t helping.


  36. - Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 6:33 pm:

    Let’s let the Man in Black summarize the amendments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMMp_llzBT4


  37. - Cease Fire - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 6:38 pm:

    Can I carry my pistol while I save the youth of urban chicago?


  38. - Fred's Mustache - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 6:58 pm:

    Wow. People think that its ok to have concealed carry in bars of all places? Time to rethink that one. Some in the Dem caucus are losing it.


  39. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 7:04 pm:

    –Somebody should tell Sacia and others that this bill isn’t about preventing massacres. It’s about how, where and when Illinoisans can exercise their right to carry concealed weapons.–

    Somebody should tell him as well that his hick-s-for-brains-but-I’m-an-FBI-agent bit doesn’t work, either.

    I grew up in in North Central Illinois, and had the audacity to actually go to public schools and university.

    Don’t peddle that “aw, shucks” stuff this way. Some of us even check out books at the library every now and again.


  40. - Ken_in_Aurora - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 7:04 pm:

    === Fred’s Mustache - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 6:58 pm: Wow. People think that its ok to have concealed carry in bars of all places? Time to rethink that one. Some in the Dem caucus are losing it.

    Read the original Phelps bill. Carry would be prohibited in any establishment where more than 50% of the sales come from alcohol.

    997 is actually a well crafted, reasonable bill. All this nonsense with 1155 is just the worst kind of political theater.


  41. - Fred's Mustache - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 7:17 pm:

    === Read the original Phelps bill. Carry would be prohibited in any establishment where more than 50% of the sales come from alcohol. ===

    Ill take a look, Thanks. Sorry its been a long couple of days. Not much time to read the amendments. Still think guns in bars = bad idea!


  42. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 7:25 pm:

    I’m glad a conservative old Southwestside Catholic Irishman is at the helm here. Whatever you want to say about MJM, he’s a grownup in the room.

    I can relate to dudes like that.


  43. - Fred - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 7:29 pm:

    Is the purpose of the amendments to create a law that in the end restricts gun ownership to the degree that no one will want to own a gun? Seems like it.


  44. - Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 7:37 pm:

    This whole line is silly. First, Rep. Mell should simply state that she is working with the “well regulated” part of the 2nd Amendment. Second, the questioners should not take the line of suggesting that a city woman would necessarily feel safer with a loaded gun in hand.


  45. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 7:44 pm:

    –This whole line is silly. First, Rep. Mell should simply state that she is working with the “well regulated” part of the 2nd Amendment.–

    Justice Scalia and crew, on a 5-4 vote, despite more than 200 years of American history, discovered that “a well-regulated militia” means whoever Justice Scalia and crew wants to pack.


  46. - Mason born - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 7:51 pm:

    Word i wasn’t advocating carrying in daycare but the amendments requirement for locked and unloaded seemed like a big infringement for daycare owner. As Arch pointed out they are already infringed to get the liscense which resolves that. BTW Arch thank for the info my mother-in law was considering getting liscensed to help with retirement that should put a stop to that.


  47. - Mason born - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 8:29 pm:

    Is Aroyo stupid what is the difference between carrying 1 and 20? On a practical note the darn things are heavy. He is complaining that phelps bill doesn’t limit number of guns you can carry at one time.


  48. - Fred's Mustache - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 8:31 pm:

    This is painful to watch


  49. - Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 8:39 pm:

    According to the Monicello web site, the Jefferson quote: “Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not.” Is a spurious attribution. The Rep. should check his sources.

    http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/those-who-hammer-their-guns-plowsquotation


  50. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 9:14 pm:

    67 votes for Phelps’ amendment/bill. Not enough to preempt home rule unless Todd has a few more votes in his pocket.

    Now, after all of that, we have a rough outline of a final bill. It will get interesting from here on out.


  51. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 10:41 pm:

    —Gotta say, I do NOT trust the Police to enforce that correctly. Even tho you’d avoid a conviction, that gray area is too much power to the Police. (and, again, this is something highly, highly unlikely to ever affect me directly)

    It’s just a bad idea–if you are going to have a law, make it clear for everyone to figure out if you can store it in a car or convey it out of an area near your house. It’s better for the police and the person involved.


  52. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Feb 26, 13 @ 10:42 pm:

    ====BTW Arch thank for the info my mother-in law was considering getting liscensed to help with retirement that should put a stop to that.

    While I’m relatively confident–make sure to confirm that information. Don’t rely on the guy on the internet.


  53. - Mason born - Wednesday, Feb 27, 13 @ 4:56 am:

    Arch

    No offense but ya always double check. she was wavering with the paperwork involved anyway. This is just something to check with attorney.


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          * IS captures Iraqi town, purges opponents in Syria's Palmyra
          * Obama's Senate allies hope to endorse his trade bill Friday
          * Archives show Hillary Clinton OK'd tax breaks for nonprofits


          * Kristufek's Arlington selections for Friday's races
          * Dawn Patrol: PARCC test shortened; Blackhawks drop game 3
          * VA must find millions to finish troubled Denver hospital
          * Dutch government to sell off nationalized ABN Amro bank
          * Grain lower, livestock mixed

          * Obama: We're definitely not 'losing' in Ir...
          * Ari Fleischer: Obama ISIS Stance Not Fair ...
          * Tom Cotton: We shouldn't be ashamed of the...
          * Kinzinger: American Leadership Needed to D...
          * Seven FCC Reform Measures Sent to Full Com...
          * Emmer named to House Financial Services Co...
          * Rep. Kinzinger Pushing for Ground Troops i...
          * GOP Lawmakers Rip Obama For Not Being Fait...
          * Republican presidential race sees return o...
          * Ramadi Falls To ISIS, Pentagon Admits Terr...

          * East Bay congressman introduces bill to pr......
          * The Ad That Ushered In An Era Of Tough-On-......
          * Deportation delayed so man can donate kidn......

          * Karl Rove's Crossroads Empire Adds a New S......
          * Senate Says Yes To Medical Marijuana For V......
          * Durbin, Kirk, split over "fast track" for ......

          * Chicago Area Governments Bond Ratings Fall Below Investment Grade
          * Illinois House passes HB 306 parent opt out bill 64 – 47.
          * Turnaround.
          * Rep. McDermod: Why Republicans are voting "Present"
          * Democrats' votes to close GITMO could endanger Illinois families
          * 350 Springfield drivers to save $.55 per gallon in fuel taxes Friday morning
          * Masters of Manufacturing: Scott Riddell, President & Owner Newko Group
          * Where's Weyermuller? With Congressman Adam Kinzinger at CRWN
          * Thorner: "Blended learning" could be an answer for America's education woes
          * Making teaching a special need.


          * IDOT Suspends Non-Emergency Road Work for Memorial Day Holiday Weekend - Lanes Opened to Improve Traffic Flow
          * Illinois State Fire Marshal Recognizes EMS Week
          * IDOT, ISP: Drive Safe, Drive Smart Over Memorial Day Weekend - Click It or Ticket Campaign Continues, New “Driving Dead” Episode Debuts
          * Breakfast Club Fans Can Take Home Movie Memorabilia with Special 30th Anniversary Auction - Theater Chairs from Set of Iconic Movie Up for Sale
          * Honoring Illinois' Fallen - United States and Illinois flags at half-staff from Sunrise to Noon on Monday, May 25, 2015.




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