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*** UPDATED x3 *** Rauner at home and at ease

Monday, May 19, 2014

* ABC 7’s Charles Thomas scored the first interview of Bruce Rauner at his home

Rauner still lives in the house he built 20 years ago. By far it is not one of the largest or most expensive homes in tiny Winnetka.

“I’m not into conspicuous consumption at all,” he said. “That’s not of interest to me.”

Trulia estimates the house is worth about $2 million, which ain’t much considering the man’s fortune, which he estimated to Thomas runs in the “hundreds of millions of dollars for sure.” From a screen cap…

And a satellite view…

…Adding… Satellite view of the governor’s private house…

* But Rauner doesn’t appear to put on airs with his biker buddies

He’s a member of the A.B.A.T.E. Motorcycle Club whose leader said Rauner joined in 2008.

“I was shocked when I heard,” Patrick Jones said of Rauner’s wealth. “To us he’s just a regular guy.”

The piece included footage of Rauner shaking hands with a biker who has a Confederate flag on his jacket arm (a detail I hadn’t noticed until someone with the Quinn operation pointed it out last night)….

*** UPDATE 1 *** The Quinn campaign is now trying to make this an issue…

Illinois Leaders Call for Apology After Bruce Rauner Embraces Supporter Wearing Confederate Flag

CHICAGO – Cook County Board President Toni Preckwinkle, Secretary of State Jesse White, Congressman Bobby Rush, Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky, Congressman Danny Davis, Congresswoman Robin Kelly and Cook County Recorder of Deeds Karen Yarbrough issued the below statement rejecting Bruce Rauner’s television appearance warmly embracing a supporter wearing the Confederate flag. The story was a profile about Rauner and the people with whom he hangs out, including a man wearing the Confederate flag with the inscription “Fighting Terrorism Since 1861″:

    “It is shocking to see Republican candidate for Governor, Bruce Rauner, warmly embracing a supporter wearing the Confederate flag.

    “Bruce Rauner owes the people of Illinois an apology.

    “There’s no place in the Land of Abraham Lincoln for the Confederate flag, a symbol of racism and slavery.

    “There’s one and only one flag of the United States of America - the stars and stripes.”

I didn’t notice that inscription.

*** UPDATE 2 *** Rauner responds…


I really doubt he saw that flag patch when he shook the guy’s hand. This is more of an advance staff error than a Rauner error.

…Adding… No way did he say “condones.” Nobody’s that stupid. That’s gotta be a typo. I’ve asked Monique for clarification.

*** UPDATE 3 *** As I suspected…


[ *** End Of Updates *** ]

* And, finally

He says he would not be surprised if democrats uncover more scandals involving some of the companies in which his company has invested.

“Human beings aren’t perfect and we’ve invested in thousands of executives and sometimes their behavior isn’t what it should be,” he said.

- Posted by Rich Miller        


147 Comments
  1. - So. ILL - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:38 am:

    Alright, now make with the pictures of Pat Quinn’s house. Let’s get a front and overhead shot too, k? And no funny business like putting up a pic of the gov. mansion. He doesn’t live there. Thanks.


  2. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:40 am:

    ===“Human beings aren’t perfect and we’ve invested in thousands of executives and sometimes their behavior isn’t what it should be,” he (Bruce Rauner) said.===

    “I invested in companies and people, but I have no idea how those things would turn out. We made money, that is the ‘Bottom Line’…”

    It’s about the money, when it’s not about the money.

    Honesty and integrity, ethics and morals have a bottom line. How fun!


  3. - CircularFiringSquad - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:41 am:

    “He says he would not be surprised if democrats uncover more scandals involving some of the companies in which his company has invested.”

    That seems to be a pretty good hint by Shakey Mitt Rauner that there is a lot more to roll out on the 400 companies he has funded. Wonder if the media will vault into action or adopt the lapdog people aren’t perfect line? Perhaps that should be PQ’s response too?
    Of course the Tribbies took that approach when caught on wiretap trying to get the $100 Wrigley deal.


  4. - Upon Further Review - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:42 am:

    The A.B.A.T.E. Motorcycle Club can play politics with the best of them in selected contests. In 1994, when Dan Rostenkowski appeared vulnerable, A.B.A.T.E. took up the cause of a Republican unknown in the 5th District.


  5. - Grandson of Man - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:42 am:

    “Human beings aren’t perfect and we’ve invested in thousands of executives and sometimes their behavior isn’t what it should be,”

    So much for being a hands-on manager. If Rauner’s governor and someone under his employ messes up badly, will he say the same thing?

    “I’m not into conspicuous consumption at all,” he said. “That’s not of interest to me.”

    Those nine mansions or whatever number of homes he owns are of no use to him and he’s not into conspicuous consumption?


  6. - Norseman - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:43 am:

    So. Ill, Quinn would love the comparison.


  7. - Walter Mitty - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:44 am:

    Not surprised by any of it.. There will be more… Also not surprised the regular guy issue.. I know some are dissapointed, but that is him too… I remember the waitress we heard on here when he was not even considered a threat… I told him no campaiging here… You need to leave. But he was a really nice guy… Both are clearly true.


  8. - VanillaMan - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:45 am:

    Quinn’s plan is to spend the equivalent value of Rauner’s Winnetka home to let everyone with a television know that Rauner shook hands with a guy wearing a motorcycle jacket with a rebel flag sewed upon it.


  9. - Jimmy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:46 am:

    If he’s expecting more seniors to die under his watch, shouldn’t he be doing something about rather than riding his motorcycle?


  10. - wordslinger - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:47 am:

    “I’m not into conspicuous consumption at all,” he said. “That’s not of interest to me.”

    “For example, my Central Park West penthouse is behind a moat, so no way is that conspicuous. And you can’t even get near my Key Largo estate or Montana ranches, so they’re not conspicuous.”

    Dude, nine multi-million-dollar homes. That qualifies as conspicuous consumption.

    You have a right to it, but why pretend it’s something other than it is?


  11. - Wensicia - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:48 am:

    Rauner: “I will run this state like a business, but please ignore how I run my businesses. It’s not relevant.”


  12. - Levois - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:49 am:

    uh-oh! the Quinn campaign pointing out minor details in who Bruce Rauner shakes hands with. Someone has an eye out for that thing. Will this show up in negative ads?


  13. - DuPage Rep - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:50 am:

    Stop the presses! Rauner shook hands with a biker dude with a conferate flag on his jacket. Is Quinn worried about his African American support?


  14. - dave - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:51 am:

    **Not many know what the billionaire venture capitalist is like off the campaign trail, until now.**

    Umm… Charles Thomas does know that this is part of the campaign trail, right?


  15. - Walker - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:51 am:

    He’s into inconspicuous consumption?


  16. - Reality Check - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:51 am:

    Candidate Bruce passes the buck for his business record.

    The real Rauner told a trade publication, “We spend a lot of time living with our companies on a week-to-week basis, understanding what’s going on, and being in the flow of information, so we can be helpful and knowledgeable about the operation.”


  17. - Living in Machiaville - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:52 am:

    Pat Quinn photographed petting a wolf. Innocent you say? Wolves eat harmless baby bunnies….so does Quinn support the cold-blodded murder of baby bunnies by maurading wolves? hmmmmm


  18. - too obvious - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:54 am:

    Charles Thomas was about the last guy I thought who would get sweet-talked by this phony. #bamboozled


  19. - George - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:54 am:

    Shouldn’t we care more about where Quinn spends our tax dollars rather than where Rauner spends his own money?


  20. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:56 am:

    To play of - wordslinger -, I had a riff, but he got to it first;

    Rauner’s Montana ranch is the smallest of the 1000 acres ones in the area.

    Rauner’s Central Park place has the shallowest moat.

    Rauner’s Florida Compound has the fewest security cameras.

    Rauner’s pieces of the Chicago Bulls, Boston Red Sox, and Pittsburgh Steelers are no bigger than any other partner that owns professional franchises…

    Both Rauners are. “Paupers” in the “.01%” people. An average “Joseph”…

    Either own being rich or just own everything else that can point out the hypocrisy.


  21. - too obvious - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 10:57 am:

    Would be nice if at least one reporter would remind Bruce he didn’t just “invest” in companies. In the case of the nursing homes for example Rauner’s firm CREATED and controlled the company which bought nearly 200 nursing homes. 2 of the 3 members of the board of that company were Rauner’s fellow GTCR principals. #BustOutBruce


  22. - VanillaMan - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:00 am:

    HAH!
    Just as I thought!
    The Quinnsters go for the easy slam. Rauner shakes hands with a guy wearing a confederate flag.

    What a bunch of losers!


  23. - wordslinger - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:01 am:

    –Rauner says he can’t control who he meets on campaign trail but condones confederate flag,–

    What does that mean?


  24. - Langhorne - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:01 am:

    um, baron. nine mansions IS conspicuous consumption. you may not brag about it. you dont have to.

    i want to know if bruce sends a plane to pick up his fishing buddies, or they have to inconspicuously schlep to montana on their own dime. i would pay good money to see james meeks in waders in a stream fly fishing.

    “we have invested in thousands of executives, and sometimes their behavior isnt what it should be.” that doesnt inoculate bruce from further scandals and charges bec he claims to be a hands on guy. it does give quinn cover to use the same logic to explain this or that underling who screws up.


  25. - VanillaMan - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:02 am:

    After today, only naked people will be allowed to shake hands with Mr. Rauner. Naked people without tattoos, that is.

    Wow - when your candidate can’t run a state, at least try to get him to hire people to run his campaigns, right?


  26. - Rich Miller - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:02 am:

    Word, my guess is it’s a typo.


  27. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:03 am:

    To the patch;

    I am sure Bruce Rauner has taken numerous pictures with people he just met. Bruce didn’t pick the coat the Dope wore, nor did Bruce ask that the coat have the patch. All this picture says to me is that you get close enough to someone running for office, odds are Dopey people are going to get their mugs in pictures.

    How about the picture with Rahm and Bruce? Rahm and Bruce chose to take a very specific picture with each other.

    Bad form on Staff to get Bruce with someone with the flag, but you take enough pictures with enough people not vetted correctly for the lens, you get a bad optic once of twice.


  28. - Frenchie Mendoza - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:03 am:

    Rauner is — as I suspected — a bit dense.

    He condones the confederate flag?

    Um, ok. That’s interesting. I condemn it, but Rauner condones? Wow — didn’t see that one coming.


  29. - VanillaMan - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:03 am:

    Hey - Quinnsters, quick - find out if that other guy recycled the plastic cup he was drinking from. Find out if it is beer. Then find out if he drove home.

    Then attack Rauner for encouraging drunk driving!


  30. - Irish1 - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:04 am:

    @word, I assume she meant “condemns”?


  31. - Slick Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:04 am:

    “It is shocking to see Republican candidate for Governor, Bruce Rauner, warmly embracing a supporter wearing the Confederate flag. Bruce Rauner owes the people of Illinois an apology.”

    This is the kind of stuff that makes people hate politics and politicians. What is next, Bruce Rauner changed lanes on the interstate and did not use his blinker? Bruce Rauner owes the drivers of Illinois an apology!


  32. - Pot calling kettle - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:04 am:

    ==Shouldn’t we care more about where Quinn spends our tax dollars rather than where Rauner spends his own money?==

    Rauner is telling us that his primary qualifications for Gov are how he has earned and spent his money. So, Rauner is telling us it is important to understanding how he will govern.


  33. - A guy... - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:04 am:

    People out in voterland saw a guy they could relate to, despite his wealth. He’s advanced the theme of being a regular dude whether you like it or not. As for companies invested in, he expects more mud, he’s given notice to expect it. Pretty good interview that will be played over and over again with the theme being; this isn’t a paid ad.


  34. - wordslinger - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:05 am:

    Does the word “condones” come from Monique or Rauner?


  35. - the Patriot - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:07 am:

    Nice to see there is not true objectivity here and the closet democrats surface. You won’t see any criticism of Madigan, Quinn, or most career democrats over their private business ventures, because by definition they have none.

    Can’t impeach Quinn on his private business profits because he has not.

    Try investing a billion dollars without hitting companies of questionable integrity. You could not even just put in in banks and draw interest without this problem. I guess the only way to avoid these questions is to be a democrat and get rich fleecing the taxpayers.


  36. - UIC Guy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:08 am:

    Perhaps ‘condones’ is a mis-statement or typo for ‘condemns’? (I’m not usually so charitable to those of Rauner’s ilk….)


  37. - Rich Miller - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:09 am:

    No way did he say “condones.” Nobody’s that stupid.


  38. - A guy... - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:10 am:

    I think I saw two flags on the guy’s sleeve. Bikerwardrobegate; the next biggie. Oy.


  39. - steve schnorf - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:11 am:

    Sorry, gang, doesn’t really bother me. He has the American flag above it. If this is as bad as it gets, it doesn’t get very bad.


  40. - DuPage Rep - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:11 am:

    OptionsInfoShare

    ONLY STATEHOUSE REPORTERS
    All PostsWriter PostsMedia Posts
    11:09 AMMonique Garcia

    @moniquegarciaCorrection of typo: Rauner condemns Confederate Flag, said he supports American flag.


  41. - VanillaMan - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:12 am:

    Hey Quinnsters - look closer at that handshake!
    I think Bruce and that guy are using a secret handshake code!

    OMG!
    Those guys used to be girl scouts! Bruce Rauner used to be a woman? Holy Crap! Stop the presses!


  42. - Frenchie Mendoza - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:12 am:

    It’s interesting that today is a tale of two typos.

    Madigan’s is (I gather) endemic of some mythical political mentality in Springfield at the moment (and apparently gives support to the “here’s why we have to leave the state” meme ) — yet Rauner’s is … just a typo.


  43. - Bill White - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:12 am:

    A twitter update said “condones” was a typo - maybe auto correct?


  44. - Rich Miller - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:13 am:

    === yet Rauner’s is … just a typo. ===

    Don’t be an idiot. That was a reporter’s typo, not Rauner’s.


  45. - Walker - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:14 am:

    Such ado about nothing.


  46. - wordslinger - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:15 am:

    People out of uniform who wear the U.S. flag as a fashion accessory, whether sweating all over it in a headband or dripping ketchup all over it in a t-shirt are just like flag burners.

    They have a right, but it’s a right to be a disrespectful slob.


  47. - VanillaMan - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:15 am:

    I think he meant to say “cojones”?


  48. - George - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:16 am:

    Pot, believe me, I am no Rauner fan. I’ll probably hold my nose and vote Quinn. I’m just sick of wealthy candidates being derided for being wealthy candidates. Guess I missed civics class the day they mentioned that only people who never had a real job can be qualified. We all can’t be community organizers and gadfly’s.


  49. - wordslinger - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:18 am:

    –No way did he say “condones.” Nobody’s that stupid.==

    Not outside of Mississippi, anyway. They still have the Stars and Bars in their state flag.


  50. - so... - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:19 am:

    Can’t help but notice that Dorothy Brown isn’t on that list of elected officials. Can’t imagine why…


  51. - Bot Me - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:21 am:

    What a hoot. Quinn attacks Rauner for shaking hands with a guy with a confederate flag after running for election with a guy who sits in a federal prison.

    Do these guys even listen to themselves?


  52. - Jimmy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:21 am:

    I wonder if Rauner is working with Rep. Ives to round up the Confederate vote in Illinois?


  53. - Old Shepherd - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:22 am:

    George…I also don’t have a problem with wealthy candidates. Just don’t go around hiding your wealth and trying to convince people that you live from paycheck-to-paycheck like regular folks.


  54. - Bill White - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:23 am:

    This is a more important Tweet from Monique Garcia

    == Rauner also criticized House Dems for passing budget without enough money to cover the spending in it, but refuses to say what he’d cut. ==


  55. - Upon Further Review - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:27 am:

    Bad political flashback: opponents of Clarence Thomas, during the confirmation process, accused him of displaying a Confederate flag in his office. Thomas corrected the opponents by pointing out that it was the official state flag of Georgia which resembled the Confederate battle flag.

    Georgia subsequently modified its flag, but the same symbols are still present. St. Andrew’s cross is a common component of many Southern state flags as well as being a symbol of Scotland.


  56. - George - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:32 am:

    Old shep, would u think it would play better if he wore his Rolex, mackinaw coat, and Gucci loafers? Look, I’ve got a lot of concerns with Rauner, him being rich ain’t one of them.


  57. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:34 am:

    Raunerites and Raunerbots just line up like lemmings, embracing this false narrative of Bruce Rauner, “Average Joe”.

    Maybe Charles Thomas should have asked about the address Bruce Rauner listed on his drivers license when his Denied Winnetka-Living Daughter was at Payton Prep. Phil Pone asked about the Drivers License, didn’t he?

    When the Denied Daughter got her drivers license, while attending Chicago’s Payton Prep….did she use the modest Winnetka house, or Chicago where she “lived”, while Bruce had the Winnetka address on his license…

    Problems you have, being an average “Joseph” with 9 multi million dollar properties.

    Remember; that house, not in Chicago.

    Denying a worthy child…modestly… in Winnetka.


  58. - Chicago Cynic - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:36 am:

    This is good stuff for Rauner. This is standard - let’s warm our rich guy candidate up - stuff and they did it well. Rauner comes across as a smart, reasonable guy. It may be “bamboozling” but it’s damned effective bamboozling.


  59. - Chicago Cynic - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:38 am:

    Oh, and I really think the response on shaking his hand with a guy with with an offensive arm patch was really ridiculous. PLEASE let’s not create a new standard that all candidates must check out the attire of everyone they shake hands with. Trust me, nobody wants to go down that road!


  60. - Louqacious - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:41 am:

    Does this mean I gotta throw out my old Lynrd Skynrd and The Band LPs?


  61. - Archimedes - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:43 am:

    The Winnetka home built 20 years ago and still lives in. Except for those years at Walter Payton, of corse, since he was a resident of Chicago….


  62. - VanillaMan - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:46 am:

    This is Illinois.
    We don’t want successful people running for governor. Future felons only, please.


  63. - Jimmy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:47 am:

    Chicago Cynic - guys sporting Confederate flags in 2014 are one step away from guys in bed sheets. The criticism is very fair and Bruce needs to watch out who he associates with and what he says. The days of bullying his way to electoral success are over - Quinn and the Democrats will have a field day with this - especially since the Republicans continue to lob racial bombs at Obama and it seems like 2014 is going to be a populist and turnout kind of campaign.


  64. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:47 am:

    Modest or not…

    Which adult in that family had a Chicago drivers license to go along with Chicago residency?

    Both parents with Winnetka drivers licenses allowed their Denied Daughter, at 14, at 15, 16, 17… a Chicago Penthouse to live, alone?

    Questions, questions…


  65. - DuPage Rep - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:55 am:

    ==When the Denied Daughter got her drivers license, while attending Chicago’s Payton Prep….did she use the modest Winnetka house, or Chicago where she “lived”, while Bruce had the Winnetka address on his license…==

    Come on Willy. Give it up already. Your PARTY is the anyone but Rauner party. I get it, but don’t start back up on the PPC routine again, because once you go down that road your OCD won’t let you off.


  66. - Formerpol - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:56 am:

    What a dumb issue this is. Shows the contempt the Quinn people have for the average voter!


  67. - Thomas - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:57 am:

    So let me get this straight: Rauner doesn’t actually know who this guy with the Confederate flag is, but he’s claiming to be an active member of this biker club and rides with them regularly, and so does this guy…. This isn’t the first time Rauner’s pretended not to know someone - how could he have missed his pal Bill Cellini sitting in the front row at the Sangamo Club laughing at his jokes? How convenient…


  68. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:02 pm:

    - DuPage Rep -,

    With respect,

    You do an interview, and you base part of it on your Modest $2 million dollar home, what about all those parents, with modest Chicago homes, one home, one apartment, and Bruce Rauner never changing his drivers license, wife never changing her drivers license, and all these “safety” precautions, ensuring qualified children get entrance into elite Chicago Publuc schools, like Payton Prep.

    Can’t be too “Modest” to get your Denied Winnetka Daughter a spot, denying worthy children, and bypassing the usual residency to do it.

    Who checked on the Rauners? The Winnetka mansion is indeed modest, but not in Chicago.

    You bring up modest homes, the questions begin again;

    How does a Denied Daughter of a Clout-Heavy suburbanite get his Denied Daughter entrance, and keeps her “legal” with drivers licenses to…a modest Winnetka mansion?

    Sound like an Outsider to you?


  69. - Jimmy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:05 pm:

    Archimedes and Oswego Willy - Great catch! If the Rauner’s have lived in their “modest” home in Winnetka for the last 20 years, how the heck does their daughter cut ahead of better qualified sons and daughters of Chicago residents to worm her way into Chicago’s best public high school? This guy is a walking conflict of interest…maybe he should think twice before he talks? This puff piece is really a problem for him.


  70. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:10 pm:

    If the Quinn Crew would just stop with Dopey people getting in picture frame of candidates long enough to see that the piece, focusing on the residence, puts front and center the question;

    How did a Daughter, already denied, get into a Chicago school, while having residence in Winnetka, before, and during her time at Payton Prep?

    The house can be the most modest mansion anywhere, but it ain’t… in Chicago.


  71. - SAP - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:11 pm:

    Looks like the guy between Rauner and the guy he is shaking hands with also has a confederate flag on his jacket, over on the left front.


  72. - Grandson of Man - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:12 pm:

    “This puff piece is really a problem for him.”

    His entire campaign is a puff piece.

    == Rauner also criticized House Dems for passing budget without enough money to cover the spending in it, but refuses to say what he’d cut. ==


  73. - Anonymous - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:17 pm:

    Hey Jimmy, the entire Democratic congressional delegation from Illinois walks every day past the Jefferson Davis statue in the Capitol. Why haven’t they denounced?


  74. - VanillaMan - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:23 pm:

    Hey Jimmy, take a look at the history of the confederate flag and the Democratic party too. It only took a century for them to find it an embarrassment, then claim it is the party of Lincoln that caused it.


  75. - vttk17a1 - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:24 pm:

    Much ado about nothing. Looks to me like the flag in question is the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.

    The next thing you know, the Army of the Potomac will be condemned for it’s salute of the Army of Northern Virginia at the the surrender ceremony at Appomattox.

    Maybe someone from Quinn’s campaign will suggest that Grant supported slavery because he removed his hat to salute Lee. It might be worth a vote!

    We force our own meaning upon these symbols. Meaning not necessarily shared by those who created them. Does any of it really belong in this election?

    Today we ascribe motives and meanings to bits and pieces of the the Civil War that people from that time would find wildly inaccurate. Perhaps we do this to make ourselves feel better.

    The flag in the picture was never an official flag of the confederacy. It was, however, adopted as an unofficial symbol of resistance to school desegregation in the south in the 1960’s.

    If we are to disapprove of a symbol, let us at least oppose it for what it was, not rewrite history to fit our own views of political correctness. Let the past stay there.

    Disapproval of “The Bruce” does not give license to rewrite history, nor to blame him for it.


  76. - Reader - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:24 pm:

    “Raunerites and Raunerbots just line up like lemmings…”

    Wow, I guess if you support or defend Rauner you’re a lemming. Only if you condemn Rauner and quasi-support Quinn are you at OW’s vaulted level of Republicanism.


  77. - too obvious - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:25 pm:

    Rauner supports the U.S. flag. Good to know.

    Probably right after the Swiss flag. Thank you bank secrecy laws.


  78. - frustrated GOP - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:27 pm:

    I want to see the place that overlooks central park. I’m guessing it’s not so modest and I’m guessing he doesn’t take the bike to visit it. I want to know if we will be paying for his fly time back and forth to Springfield when he’s gov.


  79. - Jimmy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:27 pm:

    Anonymous - I think the quick answer is that Democratic members are working to make sure Republicans don’t destroy our nation’s healthcare system, raid Medicare and Social security, weaken the economy or further weaken our nation’s military. Maybe the Republican members of the Illinois delegation would be willing to work on yanking down Jefferson Davis statues?


  80. - Streator Curmudgeon - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:28 pm:

    Looks like my entire house would fit inside Rauner’s garage.


  81. - Jimmy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:30 pm:

    VanillaMan - Lincoln would be a Democrat if he were alive today.


  82. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:34 pm:

    ===Wow, I guess if you support or defend Rauner you’re a lemming. Only if you condemn Rauner and quasi-support Quinn are you at OW’s vaulted level of Republicanism.===

    Both Bruce Rauner and “Bruce Rauner” are not Republicans.

    They are not “R _ _ OS” either. They are Raunerites. They are for Bruce Rauner and winning the GOP Primary was the best and easiest road to the “finals” for Governor.

    Not understanding that a man who runs against all Career Politicans, while saying 1/3 of the GOP GA is corrupt is not a Republican, is on your ignorance to seeing how these lemmings follow, and less on me pointing it out.

    This fake “modesty”, while having these 9 multi million dollars residences, and Clouting a child into a school denying worthy kids should make you ill, not cheer.


  83. - Bot Me - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:37 pm:

    So, OW, just curious, but those of us who are going to hold our nose and vote for Rauner, what are we? Raunerites? Lemmings?

    And are we allowed to actually defend the guy on some matters, even as we hold our nose to his very real problems.

    This is where we’re at. A deeply flawed candidate. But I believe he’s better than Quinn by a long shot so therefore I’ll probably end up defending Rauner often. That makes me a lemming?


  84. - Demoralized - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:52 pm:

    I think this is a goofy controversy. It’s severely grasping at straws IMO.

    As for those of you claiming Rauner is just “one of the guys” . . . he’s not. I’d prefer he not go with that theme. Don’t insult me with those claims. Embrace who you are. I don’t mind that he has money but don’t play this little game where he tries to play himself off as just like you and I. He’s not.


  85. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:56 pm:

    - Bot Me -,

    With respect,

    If you are holding your nose and voting for both Rauners, then why do you feel the need to…

    ===But I believe he’s better than Quinn by a long shot so therefore I’ll probably end up defending Rauner often. That makes me a lemming?===

    When you vote against your better self, and feel the need, for yourself or others, to defend voting for someone like both Rauners, then expect some blowback.

    It’s amazing how many people defended Rod for similar reasons, but you can swing a cat in a crowded room and not find a soul that voted for Blago and admits it.

    You feel the need, with one hand, type to defend “your Guy” while saying you are holding your nose with the other hand, you are going against your better self at your own peril, defending what you seem to think is someone you need to hold your breath to defend in the first place.

    They are not Republicans. If you are holding your nose to bite for the Republican, neither Rauner is a Republican.

    If it’s the lesser if two evils, you have to “eat” all the Dopiness that you are holding your nose for when it’s pointed out.

    Raunerites support Rauner, against their better selves. Raunerbots do that too, they just using the talking points to “sell it”

    Hope that helps. You support Rauners, got to own all “your Guy” is, was, or pretends never happened.

    With respect.


  86. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 12:58 pm:

    “They are not Republicans. If you are holding your nose to VOTE for the Republican, neither Rauner is a Republican. ”

    Stupid phone. Apologies.


  87. - NewWestSuburbanGOP'er - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 1:01 pm:

    Look, if the Republicans really and truly wanted to attract new younger voters to the party, they made a huge mistake by supporting Rauner in the primary.

    I was all for Dan Rutherford before his Friday news conference debacle and what ensued, but I felt my vote would have been wasted. I then decided to vote for Kirk Dillard and sent him an email (and received a nice response btw) letting him know as a union member, I would be supporting him.

    Rauner and the people who are going to control the party are nuts if they think this is the way to open up the party to find new blood. All those D’s that he has in his commercial, can’t even say what he stands for. I would like to know what his budget proposal looks like, how is he going to deal with the pension issues (specifically-not generalities), does he really believe that 1/3 of the GA is corrupt, how did he get his daughter into Payton Prep, why not New Trier? Modest $2M home? Really?

    Will the real Bruce Rauner please show up and tell us what you stand for and not just “shaking up Illinois”?


  88. - Formerpol - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 1:02 pm:

    Heaven forbid we would elect someone as Governor who has actually already been very successful! We should prefer the Quinns and the Blagos and the Ryans who never held a real private sector job!


  89. - VanillaMan - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 1:03 pm:

    Before he was a Republican, Lincoln was a Whig. You know what he stood for then? That means if he was alive today, he be co-chairing the Rauner campaign, but throttling the bonehead with the rebel flag on his jacket because that was the flag that John Wilkes Booth flew in his heart when he shot him in the head.


  90. - Rich Miller - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 1:03 pm:

    === and the Ryans who never held a real private sector job===

    George Ryan owned a smallish chain of pharmacies.


  91. - Ghost - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 1:07 pm:

    If you own 9 houses, your into mega conspicous consumption…..

    if you own multiple ranches your into conspicous consumption…..


  92. - Demoralized - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 1:07 pm:

    Pat Quinn also practiced law privately before moving to the public sector.


  93. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 1:09 pm:

    ===…and the Ryans who never held a real private sector job!===

    ===George Ryan owned a smallish chain of pharmacies.===

    - Bot Me -,

    See, a Raunerbot talking point not letting the fact Geo. Ryan had a small business, get in the way to make either Rauner palatable.

    That is a good example of how not to defend.


  94. - NewWestSuburbanGOP'er - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 1:09 pm:

    Voting for Rauner is typical of the people voting against their own best interests. Middle clas warfare is being waged on all public employee unions because the 1%’ers say its their fault.

    I don’t have a pension, so nobody should have one is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. The pensions would be in a better place if the GA and municipalities would have not taken pension holidays. The benefits are not the driving cost factor for the unfunded liabilities.


  95. - A guy... - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 1:29 pm:

    OW, It’s true about Geo Ryan’s pharmacy vocation, but let’s not kid ourselves. George Ryan was principally in the Government business most of his working life. He was devastated by losing his government pension, even citing what little he had to “fall back on”. That Pharmacy pension must have been lacking. You rationalize the OW facts, and your better self and your “two guys in one” (Certs commercial from when you were less biased) malarkey all you want. Guy would up with a decent news piece that’s helpful to him. All the flag stuff is stupid, along with the folks pushing that theme. Now we here the clouting again. Nobody listens to your tripe but you…and your other self. How many of you are there?


  96. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 1:48 pm:

    (Sigh)

    ===He was devastated by losing his government pension, even citing what little he had to “fall back on”. That Pharmacy pension must have been lacking.===

    His financial status has little to do with a real life pharmacist who sold the pharmacies in 1990.

    Comes home from Korea, in the mid 1950’s to sell in 1990?

    Yeah, a side business I guess, lol.

    If you don’t like that “Your Guy” (if you like, I can point out, again you owning Rauner, lol) denied a child an opportunity, and shows off a modest mansion, he claims he had lived in for 20 years, with a Winnetka Daughter, and a Winnetka drivers license, and that child going to a Chicago school, clouted in no less, you are not “owning” either Rauner.

    === Now we here the clouting again.===

    A man is proud of his modest Winnetka mansion, when did his denied Daughter make Chicago during those 20 proud years?

    “Bruce Rauner” brought it all up. Not me.

    ===Nobody listens to your tripe but you…===

    Your detailed responses seem to indicate …you …do?

    Raunerbots are not my audience. If you go against your better self and relish it, I can understand how honesty and integrity, ethics and morals are difficult.


  97. - Responsa - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 1:54 pm:

    Hey, Winnetka’s a pretty and a nice small town and I’d be happy to live there if I could afford to (as I’m sure many others here would be too). All this pea green with envy stuff is petty and childish and has nothing to do with the governor race or Rauner’s suitability for holding office.


  98. - Anonymous - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 1:54 pm:

    ==If you don’t like that “Your Guy” (if you like, I can point out, again you owning Rauner, lol) denied a child an opportunity==

    The same “guy” who has invested millions into building Charter schools to give thousands of kids educational choices and opportunity? OW, you’ve made a lot of “dopey” statements with judgment clouded by your personal hated of Rauner, but this may be the “dopiest.”


  99. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 1:57 pm:

    Winnetka billionaire.

    Rauner is pro-choice. I doubt you are going to convince voters that he is pro-slavery.

    But hey, it is a Monday.


  100. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 1:59 pm:

    Attention. Attention please; Clouting question asked. Initiate “Raunerbot Talking Point “807-J”…

    ===The same “guy” who has invested millions into building Charter schools to give thousands of kids educational choices and opportunity?===

    Talking point, engaged!

    Clouted Denied Winnetka Daughter, bring up “Millions” spent on school choice and charters. Ignore ethics. Talk cash.

    I love Raunerbot talking points.


  101. - A guy... - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 2:00 pm:

    +++Anonymous - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 1:54 pm:

    ==If you don’t like that “Your Guy” (if you like, I can point out, again you owning Rauner, lol) denied a child an opportunity==

    The same “guy” who has invested millions into building Charter schools to give thousands of kids educational choices and opportunity? OW, you’ve made a lot of “dopey” statements with judgment clouded by your personal hated of Rauner, but this may be the “dopiest.”++++

    Don’t challenge him to get dopier- he’ll rise to the occasion. One of his “selves” is EF Hutton who believes everyone listens. Mostly they scroll these days. Truly nothing new to see there; ever.


  102. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 2:03 pm:

    I will say, $2 million is a modest home for a billionaire. How many square feet does that get you in Winnetka?


  103. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 2:04 pm:

    “Raunerbot Talking Point ‘901-R’

    Discredit those speaking facts, in hopes saying ‘Baloney’ or other distracting tactics ignore the lack of honesty and integrity, ethics and morals in a given fact that can’t be refuted.

    - A Guy… -, you are a favorite Raunerbot.


  104. - Demoralized - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 2:11 pm:

    ==OW, It’s true about Geo Ryan’s pharmacy vocation, but let’s not kid ourselves. George Ryan was principally in the Government business most of his working life. ==

    The claim made was that he never held a job in the private sector in his life. That’s not true. Besides, who cares where he worked. I don’t buy into this anti-public sector work garbage that some are peddling.


  105. - Rich Miller - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 2:13 pm:

    ===George Ryan was principally in the Government business most of his working life===

    My K3 family went to his pharmacy all the time back in the day. Stop moving the goalposts.


  106. - Anonymous - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 2:51 pm:

    I’m reminded of a 2Pac song lyrics….. “yeah you made a g today but you made it in a sleazy way.”

    I love it when pols want to point to their business brilliance in making money but then take no responsibilities in the consequences of those business ventures.


  107. - Precinct Captain - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 3:05 pm:

    ==the official state flag of Georgia which resembled the Confederate battle flag.==

    1) “There was only one reason for putting the flag on there, like the gun rack in the back of a pickup truck, it telegraphs a message.”

    2) “I cannot say to you that I personally was in no way motivated by a desire to defy. I can say in all honesty that my willingness was in large part because … that flag symbolized a willingness of a people to sacrifice their all for their beliefs [segregation and racism].”

    http://www.senate.ga.gov/sro/Documents/StudyCommRpts/00StateFlag.pdf

    Just because Clarence Thomas is an ahistoric idiot doesn’t mean the rest of us have to be.


  108. - 4 percent - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 3:06 pm:

    And Pat Quinn not only shook hands with Rod Blagojevich and Jesse Jackson, he ENDORSED them and said they were good and honest public officials.


  109. - Precinct Captain - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 3:16 pm:

    ==Hey Jimmy, take a look at the history of the confederate flag and the Democratic party too. It only took a century for them to find it an embarrassment, then claim it is the party of Lincoln that caused it.==

    You graduated at the top of your class with an A in history didn’t you?

    When Republicans say they’re the Party of Lincoln, they don’t mean they’re the party of deporting black people to West Africa, or the party of opposing black suffrage, or the party of allowing states the authority to bar freedmen from migrating there, all options Lincoln considered.

    http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lyndon-johnson-civil-rights-racism

    ==Before he was a Republican, Lincoln was a Whig. You know what he stood for then?==

    Not what you’re saying he would stand for.

    http://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jala/2629860.0016.105/–why-abraham-lincoln-was-a-whig?rgn=main;view=fulltext


  110. - A guy... - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 3:34 pm:

    === Rich Miller - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 2:13 pm:

    ===George Ryan was principally in the Government business most of his working life===

    My K3 family went to his pharmacy all the time back in the day. Stop moving the goalposts.===

    C’mon man. What’s it going to say on his tombstone: Miller’s pharmacist or something else. The point was comparing the private business gravitas of Rauner vs. Quinn, Blago, Ryan. There’s no contest there. MJM’s an attorney. Probably makes a lot more money there than in the GA. Anyone question his “spent his life in the GA” resume. The goalposts are where they were. Especially with Quinn and Blago. But, old George, when he gets to the occupational version of Canton, will not have a sculpture with a Pharmacist’s helmet on.


  111. - A guy... - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 3:37 pm:

    ===Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 2:04 pm:

    “Raunerbot Talking Point ‘901-R’

    Discredit those speaking facts, in hopes saying ‘Baloney’ or other distracting tactics ignore the lack of honesty and integrity, ethics and morals in a given fact that can’t be refuted.

    - A Guy… -, you are a favorite Raunerbot.====

    Ah Willie, go post 20 more captions in the contest. It’s a better use of your time and 5% of them are funny.


  112. - Throwing Stones - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 3:39 pm:

    “Human Beings aren’t perfect and we’ve invested in thousands of executives and sometimes their behavior isn’t what it should be” he said.

    When hundreds of your “executives” behavior is not what it should be,that’s just part of business, when thousands of yourexecutives behaviorisn’t what it should be, ummmmm, hmmmmm, not sure what to say about thousands of executives mis behaving regarding rauners company. It must of been human resources fault.


  113. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 3:39 pm:

    There ya go - A Guy… -…

    No scrolling, reading. lol


  114. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 3:45 pm:

    ===… The point was comparing the private business gravitas of Rauner…===

    ===He says he would not be surprised if democrats uncover more scandals involving some of the companies in which his company has invested.===

    Sounds like that “gravitas” is mixed in with “excuses and Sgt. Schultz”.

    Might be someone pointing out his “gravitas”, or more like someone covering his … “gravitas “, lol.

    Dope.


  115. - Demoralized - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 3:59 pm:

    ==The point was comparing the private business gravitas of Rauner vs. Quinn, Blago, Ryan.==

    No, the point of this entire conversation was the claim that Ryan had no private experience. He did. End of story. You can’t spin this one no matter how hard you try.


  116. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 4:03 pm:

    - Demoralized -,

    Unless it’s a Raunerbot talking point or skewed “fact”, - A Guy… - goes to the Spin. Appreciate you reminding us.

    I guess owning pharmacie”S” for over 30 years doesn’t amount to business experience(?)


  117. - Rod - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 4:24 pm:

    Charles Thomas’ report was odd in very many ways. Charles Thomas is a sophisticated reporter and the video inclusion of the ABATE biker with the Confederate flag was not accidental I suspect.

    There is no doubt that Rauner was video taped with several ABATE members and the one with the Confederate flag could have easily been edited out if ABC and Thomas had chosen to do so.
    Overall when you watch the entire piece and don’t notice the Biker with the Confederate flag it is almost shocking how favorable the story was to Rauner. Just like Rich I didn’t notice it when I watched the story on ABC.

    Thomas hasn’t really pulled a lot of punches when he has appeared on Chicago Tonight in relation to Rauner’s wealth and his ability to pay for massive commercial air time. So I have to guess Thomas played some role on the editing of the piece. Clearly the Confederate flag handshake was news, but was it included to effectively undermine the good news aspect of the rest of the story for Rauner? I don’t know the answer to that or what discussions there were about what to keep and what to cut in the video tape before ABC ran the story.


  118. - Soccermom - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 4:33 pm:

    It’s pretty conspicuous that he’s trying to buy the election.


  119. - A guy... - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 4:44 pm:

    === Demoralized - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 3:59 pm:

    ==The point was comparing the private business gravitas of Rauner vs. Quinn, Blago, Ryan.==

    No, the point of this entire conversation was the claim that Ryan had no private experience. He did. End of story. You can’t spin this one no matter how hard you try.===

    Demo, no one’s debating whether he had ‘experience’ or not. At least I’m not. Heck, Willie has him there full time for 3 decades filling bottles and stocking candy bars. Of the 3, Quinn, Blago, and George, Geo’s judgement demonstrated more private business experience than the others for sure. When someone (whoever) makes a point that a more savvy business guy would be better that career government guys, Rauner’s experience trumps all of them and most people in that category. That’s the point sans spin.

    Now keep in mind since I’m a Raunerite, Raunerbot, Raunermeister, Dope, and in constant conflict with my inner self, my better self and immoral and lacking ethics and think old people don’t deserve to live and my President is Jefferson Davis, well by golly, pay no attention.


  120. - Demoralized - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 4:53 pm:

    ==think old people don’t deserve to live and my President is Jefferson Davis==

    I wouldn’t put that on your resume.


  121. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 5:00 pm:

    ===Demo, no one’s debating whether he had ‘experience’ or not. ===

    You really have got to read things.

    This is what started this;

    ======…and the Ryans who never held a real private sector job!===

    Yeah, that was the debate.

    Please read. Please.

    ===Now keep in mind since I’m a Raunerite, Raunerbot, Raunermeister, Dope, and in constant conflict with my inner self, my better self and immoral and lacking ethics and think old people don’t deserve to live and my President is Jefferson Davis, well by golly, pay no attention.===

    The first step is admitting….


  122. - Joan P. - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 5:03 pm:

    “I’m not into conspicuous consumption at all . . .”

    Then sell the rest of your homes.


  123. - Anon - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 5:30 pm:

    Is there no picture of Pat Quinn embracing racist Michael J. Madigan?


  124. - wordslinger - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 5:35 pm:

    Some of the comments here are hilarious.

    Are there some people unaware that there’s an election this November and Rauner’s strategy is to make inroads into the black community?

    Quinn would have been crazy not to take a swipe at Rauner for making nice with a guy sporting the Stars and Bars. Rauner’s people know that, and that’s why they condemned it so quickly.

    If some of you are under the impression that the flag of slavery is some sort of benign historical curiosity, disabuse yourself of that notion.

    There’s never been a Klan or White Power rally anywhere without the Stars and Bars. It resonates, in some circles — and should in more.

    And if you think the Klan is some sort of distant historical memory in the minds of the black community, disabuse yourself of that notion, too.


  125. - Dieter Punley Finn - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 5:57 pm:

    Over the Stars and Bars is the flag of the United States flying the wrong way, right to left. That’s intentional: a slur. That picture isn’t going away, because Rauner is yucking it up with a fellow who hates the US of A! What is he: a fellow traveler? No, it’s not going away and it’s not funny.


  126. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 6:07 pm:

    To the Flag,

    The question now, more and more, seems to be about the flag; “will this taint Rauner”?

    I commented, and “own “;

    ===Bad form on Staff to get Bruce with someone with the flag, but you take enough pictures with enough people not vetted correctly for the lens, you get a bad optic once of twice.===

    The response by Rauner’s Crew and/or how Quinn decides to continue to have those images seen, will be the fallout Rauner will face.

    Bad pictures or in bad setups plague campaigns. It wether a campaign can move on from it, or if your opponent can make it impactful after, that is what will be seen in the short and long term.


  127. - Anonymous - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 6:44 pm:

    ==Over the Stars and Bars is the flag of the United States flying the wrong way, right to left. That’s intentional: a slur. That picture isn’t going away, because Rauner is yucking it up with a fellow who hates the US of A! What is he: a fellow traveler? No, it’s not going away and it’s not funny.==

    Wrong. Before criticizing the Flag’s display, you might want to actually know what the proper display is:

    The regulation states that when authorized for application to the proper uniform the American flag patch is to be worn, right or left shoulder, so that “the star field faces forward, or to the flag’s own right. When worn in this manner, the flag is facing to the observer’s right, and gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward. The appropriate replica for the right shoulder sleeve is identified as the ‘reverse side flag’.”
    http://www.usflag.org/flagpatch.html


  128. - wordslinger - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 6:50 pm:

    –Over the Stars and Bars is the flag of the United States flying the wrong way, right to left. That’s intentional: a slur.–

    The Army wears the flag like that on side patches to simulate it flapping in the breeze as they advance.

    But I’m quite certain they don’t do so in conjunction with the Stars and Bars.

    An upside down flag is a recognized sign of distress, as on a ship, not the political statement some chronic victims use it for now.

    There is a U.S. Flag Code, advisory as it is, since we’re a free country.

    I don’t know what someone is trying to communicate matching Old Glory and Stars and Bars on his leather.

    And I certainly have no respect for a reality TV goofball who wraps his greasy head in the flag as some sort of commercial brand promotion, and takes that empty melon to a joint session of Congress for all the world to see his disrespect for the flag.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code


  129. - vttk17a1 - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 7:01 pm:

    ==If some of you are under the impression that the flag of slavery is some sort of benign historical curiosity, disabuse yourself of that notion.==

    Your interpretation of that flag’s present meaning was not necessarily how it was viewed by those who fought under it. By the way, there were four “Union” states that were slave states. Does that make the U.S. flag a “slave” flag too?

    Slavery was an issue that Lincoln used in 1863 to try to keep Great Britain from aiding the south.

    His use of it caused riots in many northern cities. One of the original issues of secession was the election of a president not even on the ballot in 11 southern states.

    I do not mean to dispute that many of those who now rally behind this flag are not benign.

    Calling a confederate battle flag a “slave” flag while ignoring other facts surrounding slavery and the Civil War smacks of a rewriting of history to fit a fiction some promote for political reasons in the 20th and 21st century.

    Your thought process could easily be used to claim the Confederate battle flag represents the views of many in the Democratic Party in the 19th and 20th centuries. I won’t even bring up Tilden and Hayes.


  130. - wordslinger - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 7:24 pm:

    – One of the original issues of secession was the election of a president not even on the ballot in 11 southern states.–

    Here we go. The Civil War revisionists. Tell me you’re not driving tonight, or ever.

    What’s fascinating about this phenomenon is that not only does it try to ignore all of U.S. history up to 1861. and all contemporary media and literature of the time, but also the Declarations of Secession from the Dixie States themselves.

    http://www.civil-war.net/pages/ordinances_secession.asp


  131. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 7:42 pm:

    I doubt it is going to come as a revelation within the African American community that some wing nuts within the right wing of the GOP oppose desegregation, hate crimes legislation or affirmative action.

    If the photo convinces some of Rauner’s top level supporters in the community to bail, so be it, but I imagine that they had plenty of time to decide for themselves what Rauner’s attitudes on race are.

    And I know that the punditry have been all goo-goo about the so-called “West Side Strategy.”

    I doubt that is Rauner’s plan, and I doubt Team Quinn is falling for the head fake either.

    Truthfully: if there were a chance for Rauner to move a significant number of the most loyal Democrat’s to Quinn’s corner, this election is already over.

    Because if Rauner can move hard core Democrats to him, soft Democrats are going to come on their own.

    I know it, Rauner knows it, and Quinn knows it.

    On the other hand, Brady lost suburban Cook by 100,000 votes in 2010, and it seems likely to me that Rauner, who lives in New Trier Township, will most likely try to crush Quinn in north Suburban Cook and Lake County, particularly among Jewish voters.

    In New Trier Township, for example, Brady only received 49% of the vote, while Rutherford received 56% and Topinka 60%.

    Palatine: 56% for Brady, but 65% for Rutherford and 67% for Topinka.

    If you want to know where Rauner will be spending his money persuading voters in this election, look to the north and northwest suburbs.

    That said, I can’t blame Team Quinn for trying to keep Rauner off balance. As word says, it is not the confederate flag, but how Rauner’s team handles the poke that counts.

    After all, not a reporter appears to have noticed the Confederate flag until it was pointed out by Team Quinn…so, it is kinda hard to blame Rauner.


  132. - Precinct Captain - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 7:44 pm:

    =. Does that make the U.S. flag a “slave” flag too==

    Yes.

    ==Your interpretation of that flag’s present meaning was not necessarily how it was viewed by those who fought under it. ==

    Wrong. Read the secession ordinances. Read the letters of Confederate generals and soldiers.

    ==Slavery was an issue that Lincoln used in 1863 to try to keep Great Britain from aiding the south.

    His use of it caused riots in many northern cities.==

    Wrong and wrong. Riots were principally in connection to the draft. Second, slavery was the issue pre-war and thus in military policy and political policy it was the war’s main issue from day one. It had little to do with Great Britain other than that Britain’s principal source of cotton was the American slavocracy. Read up on Fremont’s orders in Missouri or David Hunter’s order in the Department of the South. Read up on the First Confiscation Act in 1861.


  133. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 7:45 pm:

    BTW, instead of glomming onto the flag, we ought to be focused on the fact that Rauner’s home is only one of NINE, something which frankly I forgot during this debate.

    And frankly, I am much more interested in pictures of his ranch in Montana.


  134. - Precinct Captain - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 7:54 pm:

    And regarding ABATE, they’ve apparently had to push racists out of their ranks before: “Mike Myers reported that Rod Taylor has investigated the site and the executive board feels that there is no point in further pursuing the matter. The chapters themselves can best make sure they let people know we are not a racist group. The member who was named in this is no longer a member of ABATE of Illinois, Inc.”

    http://www.abate-il.org/about/mins11/bod6_11.pdf
    http://www.abate-il.org/about/mins10/eb11_10.pdf


  135. - Precinct Captain - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 7:55 pm:

    Here is the post that the minutes from ABATE refer to: http://southsideantifa.blogspot.com/2010/07/july-31-outing-illinois-area-white.html


  136. - Norseman - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 8:15 pm:

    Well, if Raunervich wins I may get one new experience. I’ve been to legislative receptions, luncheons, meetings and wedding receptions at the Governor’s Mansion, but I’ve never been without shoes. What a cool experience squishing my toes in that carpet.


  137. - steve schnorf - Monday, May 19, 14 @ 11:42 pm:

    Dog, as did many Democrats for the first 60 years of the 20th century (and some still), which might well come as a revelation


  138. - Anonymous - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 6:33 am:

    Precinct Captain…Talk about “revisionist” history!

    Keeping in mind the fact that that slavery was an institution protected by many in the Democratic Party and opposed by the Republican Party (which at that time was a regional, not national, party), I find your view “revisionist”.

    The root causes of all wars are fighting to gain control of money, land, and power. This was certainly true of the Civil War.

    The drivers of southern discontent in this case were were economic (access to federal funds), political (opportunity to control of the House, Senate, and the executive branch) and access to land (ability to spread slavery westward into the territories) Slavery was one of many issues of disagreement. Not the only one.

    What about the ballot issue? Am I wrong? Why no comment?

    Are you asserting that Lincoln wasn’t trying to influence Great Britain with the Emancipation Proclamation? That is what he thought he was doing.

    As far as the Draft riots in 1863, The riots main issue was that those rioting did not wish to be conscripted to fight over the issue of slavery when the wealthy could just buy their way out of the draft. (and shall we talk about the Copperheads in southern Illinois?)

    I have read the Secessionist ordinances as well as letters of those serving in the Confederate army. Some thought the war was about slavery, some about how powerful the federal government ought to be, some because they thought they were defending their homes. Maybe you should read further too. Your references are cherry picking.

    I would be the first to agree that there are organizations that promote distasteful ideas using civil war symbolism as a part of their cachet.

    You might consider that these organizations were formed and promoted in many cases by southern Democrats. (Finding a Southern Republican in those days was like looking for a unicorn.)

    Ignoring that fact to paint Rauner as a racist seems “revisionist” to me.

    I see him as an elitist. I don’t like him either, but the only person who knows why he is wearing that flag is the guy wearing it. It is about him, not Rauner.


  139. - wordslinger - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 7:53 am:

    -=-The root causes of all wars are fighting to gain control of money, land, and power. This was certainly true of the Civil War.==

    A little too categorical for me, but let’s go with it. Because the underlying factor for all those was slavery.

    Money: Slaves were valuable property. The progeny of slave was even more valuable property after the ban of the West African slave trade.

    Land: No kidding, as in the expansion of slave territory to create a market for slaves. There were some dustups over that in the Missouri Compromise and the Kansas-Nebraska Act.

    Power: Yes, well money and land equal power, don’t they? Also, an imbalance in slave states would tilt the Senate against the institution. In addition, the slave states were bound to lose representation in the House after the census of 1860, even with a slave counting as 3/5 a human being for the purposes of apportionment.

    The underlying cause of the Civil War was known to all the participants at the time. It was no secret. I don’t understand the motive for non-sensical revisionism today. Perhaps you could explain.


  140. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 7:57 am:

    Schnorf:

    Voters aren’t that interested in what the Democratic Party stood for in 1914.

    Heck, they don’t even care what the GOP stood for in 2006.

    Republicans, Rauner included, apparently want to gut a whole bunch of programs created largely with bipartisan support that Democrats value highly, and they are making it look like they are doing so to protect the wallets of millionaires.

    If that does not get the Democratic base to the polls, I doubt an shoulder patch is gonna do it.


  141. - Precinct Captain - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 10:27 am:

    ==Talk about “revisionist” history!==

    Wordslinger’s taken care of most of your nonsense in that comment pretty well.

    ==Are you asserting that Lincoln wasn’t trying to influence Great Britain with the Emancipation Proclamation? That is what he thought he was doing.==

    Lincoln thought about and issued the initial and final EP as a war measure to attack one of the foundation’s of the South’s strength: slavery. British elites abhorred the Emancipation Proclamation, most thought it would incite a servile rebellion like that of the Sepoy uprising in India because British political elite sentiment was very anti-democratic. Abolitionists thought it was weak and cynical.

    Britain’s reasons for not getting into the war were far more self-interested in that costs of blood and treasure appeared to outweigh potential benefits (including taking back more influence in North America).

    http://historyroll.com/?p=602


  142. - Robo - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 10:32 am:

    -but also the Declarations of Secession from the Dixie States themselves-

    Wordslinger–Agree with your point about slavery being the root of the conflict, but I never actually read the ordinances of the seceding states. My quick read revealed that only 3 states; AL, TX and VA mention slavery, and that in the context of “slave-holding states”. The other states cloak it under the state’s rights arguments.


  143. - Precinct Captain - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 10:54 pm:

    ==Wordslinger–Agree with your point about slavery being the root of the conflict, but I never actually read the ordinances of the seceding states. My quick read revealed that only 3 states; AL, TX and VA mention slavery, and that in the context of “slave-holding states”. The other states cloak it under the state’s rights arguments.==

    You might want to read twice LOL.

    Mississippi: “a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.”
    South Carolina: “all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that “Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free,” and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

    “This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.”

    Georgia: “For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slaveholding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility….”

    Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, & Virginia all seceded after the traitors attacked Fort Sumter.


  144. - Just plain Bill - Tuesday, May 20, 14 @ 11:17 pm:

    No wonder you folks in Illinois are in the shape you are in. Try and focus on serious issues.


  145. - Anonymous - Wednesday, May 21, 14 @ 7:01 am:

    Reason for succession: threats to slavery
    Reason for the war: Preservation of the Union


  146. - to Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, May 21, 14 @ 3:35 pm:

    There are people in your Democrat party that hate desegregation and affirmative action. In fact, your chairman, Michael J. Madigan, is one of them.


  147. - wordslinger - Wednesday, May 21, 14 @ 3:47 pm:

    –There are people in your Democrat party that hate desegregation–

    How provocative. Back it up.

    Dude, I’m sorry you don’t have a gig, but what’s up with that?


Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


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