152 Comments - Anonymous - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:26 pm: The following program has been paid for by… - Wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:28 pm: So, Todd, business guy, what’s the ROI on this course of action? What do your number crunchers say? What will it produce other than mindless buzz words? - 47th Ward - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:30 pm: Hasn’t this false choice been pointed out already? There are plenty of ways to do things differently in Illinois beyond eliminating the rights of workers. Suggesting that, if you don’t support Bruce Rauner’s agenda in full, you therefore don’t support any structural change is absurd. And yet… - Wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:31 pm: It appears “hang in there” is the new Frat Boy approved phrase for the minions. - Daniel Plainview - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:31 pm: - 12-year wait for state government to return to fiscal sanity, basic competency - Pat Quinn made the pension payments, and paid down the state debt, all during the worst economic downturn in recent history. Todd, you are a liar, just like your hero Bruce. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:32 pm: ===…the people whom Illinoisans expect to create jobs and prosperity—the answer is an emphatic “No!”=== “People! Your boss wants Rauner’s Agenda. If you want a job, you better want that too!” Is that what he’s saying, I get confused… ===Four months is a long time to go without a budget. But it pales in comparison to a 12-year wait for state government to return to fiscal sanity, basic competency and a partnership with business that allows both to prosper. Those things are more than important. They are vital. They are also hard and worth the wait.=== “People’s pain… is worth… Rauner’s wants. You people, are the cost. Too bad. Oh well. So sad. But, we want what we want at the cost of you. Hang in there, Bruce, the serfs will just have to suffer.” Mind boggling. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:36 pm: ===Those things are more than important. They are vital. They are also hard and worth the wait.=== They are also hard to explain apparently. “Trust us and do what he says. Or else.” - Just saying... - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:40 pm: ugh ….without the ideological fluff…oops - Arsenal - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:43 pm: ==the people whom Illinoisans expect to create jobs and prosperity== I guess I can speak only for me, but I certainly don’t sit around waiting for business owners to make my life better. The fact that the Chamber needs to say this is, in and of itself, telling. - 360 Degree TurnAround - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:45 pm: So Todd believes that lowering assistance to injured workers is more important than childcare? Todd believes that freezing property taxes is more important than heating homes with LIHEAP? I said it yesterday, again today, the status quo is starting to look good compared to this. - Honeybear - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:46 pm: Every day I become more and more convinced that we are not going to pull out of this. Is there something to hope for? Serious question. - lake county democrat - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:46 pm: People want term limits. People want to end gerrymandering. By mind-boggling majorities. Oh well. Re: the Chamber press release: Is this foreshadowing a media war? Will the tv/radio waves become saturated with “hang in there” and “stop the madness” ads? Can’t be too far off… - anon - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:47 pm: And one has to wonder how many posters spent(spend)the majority of their career in the public or private sector. - Gruntled University Employee - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:47 pm: Here’s a crazy idea, why not try using the Corporate Tax Code to incentivize better wages and benefits? You lure responsible businesses, that appreciate their work force, with an almost non-existent Corporate Rate and the lost revenue to the State is made up in the personal income tax of the workers. Of course you would have to limit this break to non-exempt employees to keep corporations from paying their execs more to drive up their average employee compensation but it could be done. - Norseman - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:50 pm: Todd, how does the Springfield chamber feel. They looking forward to wage freezes among the city’s large employers. Hoping for a reduction of pay for it’s local government employees. Their buying power must not be too beneficial to area businesses. Except I wonder about all those “Support State Employee Signs” among city businesses. Todd, how about those small businesses that have had to pull out of state contracts because of nonpayment by the state. They’ve lost that business now. The state will replace them with larger businesses with deeper pockets. But then again, Todd, you’ve moved on from small guys to the big league. Yep, stay the course. We’ll get rid of all those pesky social service agencies that paid people and did business with area firms. Yea, that’s the ticket. They didn’t generate enough money for the area businesses to make their service to the lazy needy worthwhile to the chamber, right Todd. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:50 pm: ===And one has to wonder how many posters spent(spend)the majority of their career in the public or private sector.=== This comment must be one of those time when all that shot-taking caught up with you? lol - Juvenal - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:52 pm: === a 12-year wait for state government to return to fiscal sanity === Someone should tell the Illinois Chamber that the fiscal insanity dates back to three governors that they endorsed, and quite a few Republicans that Todd worked for. Lee Daniels was, I believe, a storng supporter of the Edgar Ramp that Team Rauner claims gave birth to our pension problems. - Wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:52 pm: GUE, two-thirds of Illinois corporations currently pay no state income tax. - Beeker - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:54 pm: Yep, well past time to pump the brakes. If a bunch of liberals come flying off in the process then I applaud! - Wensicia - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:56 pm: They could of said,”Stay the course”, another politician’s message for continued failure with devastating consequences. - AC - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:56 pm: ==Is there something to hope for? Serious question.== A Republican revolt against Raunerism (it only takes 1, for an example, see Dunkun) A court ordered resolution, such as jailing all the leaders until a resolution is reached, Rich made a similar (somewhat tongue in cheek) suggestion Rauner agrees to a deal that improves the states businesses climate without hurting workers, including unionized ones (unlikely) Madigan and Cullerton throw workers under the bus (unlikely) The next election ?? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:57 pm: === If a bunch of liberals come flying off in the process then I applaud!=== LOL. Tell that to Diana Rauner’s “Ounce of Prevention” See you in church, as - Wordslinger - would say. - sal-says - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 12:59 pm: The Washington Post has an op-ed titled “The GOP’s dysfunction all started with Sarah Palin” Change a few words & it fits like a glove in IL. - AC - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:00 pm: Meant to say Dunkin, not Dunkun, guess I should’ve had another cup of Dunkin. - Ghost - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:01 pm: 12 years and more ago, when things were good as suggested above, the gop govenors negotiated with unions, gave them pay increases if they did a good job, benefits etc. even when the gop controled in the GA they negotiated with unions, gave taises for good work etc. So the desire to kill off union and send the state a erage wages in a downard spiral like our neighbors does t seem good for business…. afterall those union workers currently spend and make the economy move. they are not hording money in investment vehicles which stagnates the economy because money is not being spent…. - Dirty Red - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:01 pm: To be clear: this is coming from Todd on behalf of the Chamber and its members, and not just Todd? I don’t see any strong language in this piece saying the membership believes the Governor should stay the course - only that they believe he is the best bet to bring home the bacon. - anon - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:01 pm: So Willy, are you a public or private kind of guy? - Beeker - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:01 pm: Willy you are a microcosm of what so many people detest about politics these days. Good luck with that! - BeenThereB4 - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:04 pm: Todd’s still drinking the supply-side-trickle-down kool aid. Go ahead, take money out of the pockets of the working class, and see what happens to the demand for you goods and services. Small businesses think they have it hard during the stalemate, wait until Rauner gets his way and the middle class customers that used to frequent your business can no longer afford to. And for the promise of that future, Rauner is holding the budget process hostage?! Really, it’s “worth the wait?” For who? - Cheryl44 - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:06 pm: Beeker, Willy’s a Republican. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:07 pm: ===Willy you are a microcosm of what so many people detest about politics these days. Good luck with that!=== Applauding the “flying off of liberals”… lol, See you in church. ===So Willy, are you a public or private kind of guy?=== Use your words, I post publicly here, but keep my identity private, so whatcha saying? - hisgirlfriday - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:09 pm: This blog needs to start a “status quo” drinking game. - AC - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:10 pm: ==it’s “worth the wait?” For who?== For someone that wants the pain and destruction, who envisions a future where we can’t afford to take care of the neediest, where the pension system is so underfunded that there is no possibility of paying retirees, where our cost to bond money exceeds our ability to pay, where government has been truly drowned in the bathtub with no hope of life. It will be a utiopian drream for Rauner and other Radian dreamers. - PublicServant - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:11 pm: Todd, the Job Creators are the consumers that implementation of Rauner’s Agenda will hurt. See businesses sell to consumers, and if consumers are hurting, then business is hurting. In addition, businesses exist to make profits. They don’t create jobs unless there’s a per unit profit to be made in producing the next widgit. If they had extra cash, they wouldn’t create a single job unless there was money in it. If they’re already selling all the widgits consumers are willing and able to buy, why would they create any new jobs? Supply-side theory has proven time and time again to be fantasy. Empowering the consumer is the key to growing a business, not the other way around. Stop trying to have the tail wag the dog. K? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:13 pm: (Tips Cap to - Cheryl44 -) I guess what I’m trying to figure out, conservatives work in state government, liberals own businesses. If there’s a point to your question, make it. - Gruntled University Employee - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:19 pm: Wordslinger @12:52pm ==GUE, two-thirds of Illinois corporations currently pay no state income tax.== 1. IMO that’s a big part of the problem. 2. Sounds pretty “Business Friendly” to me. - Judgment Day (on the road) - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:20 pm: “Is there something to hope for? Serious question.” ———- Could be something nobody is seeing. Such as…. Another rate cut to Chicago Public Schools…. or A decision in favor of Friedrichs in the Friedrichs v. California Teachers Association case. These are the types of actions that could be what starts things moving. We’ll see. - burbanite - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:20 pm: I just got off the phone with my chamber, was ready to cancel my membership, until they told me that we do not give money to the Illinois Chamber of Commerce. - Skeptic - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:21 pm: “They are also hard and worth the wait.===” sez the angry white guy who doesn’t have to quit his job because he can’t find daycare. - anon - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:23 pm: SO Public Servant is lecturing private business owners how the economy works and Willy is stating liberals own businesses. Time for a double shot. Shocking there are so few conservatives who post here. - Mason born - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:23 pm: So much for a negotiated budget meeting. Yippy skippy. Honeybear The only optimism I see is that winter is coming. It will be interesting to see who’s cheering if I-55 stays a skating rink for weeks because no cash for salt. A hard winter might be best for all of us. - walker - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:24 pm: Becker: Do you have a position or argument you’d like to share? - the Other Anonymous - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:26 pm: I couldn’t help notice that the stories of pain Maisch mentions are mostly the pain acknowledged by the affluent: business owners, municipal infrastructure, college students and the parents who pay their tuition. Missing are the homeless, the elderly, the sick, the food stamp recipients. I just thought it was an interesting omission. - King Louis XVI - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:28 pm: Easy for Todd to say. His paycheck keeps coming. - Henry Francis - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:29 pm: Someone needs to start a meme https://www.pinterest.com/pin/4574037094917705 - Gruntled University Employee - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:34 pm: ==SO Public Servant is lecturing private business owners how the economy works and Willy is stating liberals own businesses. Time for a double shot. Shocking there are so few conservatives who post here.== Plenty of Conservatives. Raunerites, not so much. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:34 pm: - anon -, I don’t work in government. Again, - anon - looking for reasons to feed an addiction is a sign to seek help. If not fit yourself, someone close to you… To the Post, If 4 months of pain is “worth it”, how many months until it’s “not worth it”. Gov. Edgar thinks that Rauner’s tact isn’t his choice… So Gov. Edgar is wrong? - Former Hoosier - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:36 pm: Per Todd Maisch: “The chamber recognizes that the current budget stalemate is causing real pain across our state. I’ve spoken with many businesses that are waiting on the state to pay them millions of dollars for goods and services already provided.” Wow Todd. So sorry to hear your business members are suffering. They’d know what real suffering is if they were among the truly vulnerable citizens who are being held hostage during this budget impasse. Todd Maisch- another truly tone deaf advocate for the business community! - Han Solo Cup - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:36 pm: Mason born- the idot yard in my county has already purchased salt for the winter. It’s going to lack of fuel when the vendors cut them off Jan 1st that idles the trucks. - Arthur Andersen - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:37 pm: Is it Halloween, the upcoming full moon, or both that is bringing you trolls out in force today? You pick on one of us, you pick on all of us and that’s not a winning strategy, kiddies. Make a relevant point or go away. - Honeybear - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:38 pm: Thanks Mason born for responding. I’m worried about the homeless during winter. Last night I visited my spouse in Springfield. It was cold and drizzly. 40 yards away is where the homeless are near the Old State Capitol building. I looked over as I left expecting them to be gone. No they were huddled in the covered doorways. Judgement Day, I’m not sure what you meant by the first comment but I doubt Friedricks will get things moving. As a union AFSCME is down to just 1200 or so fairshare folks. In my local we’ve got about 32 out of 890. So all the anti union moves by Rauner have had the opposite effect. 100% Union is the rallying cry. I’m still looking for something hopeful. - AC - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:39 pm: ==If 4 months of pain is “worth it”, how many months until it’s “not worth it”.== Until Illinois government is in shambles. What we view as a disease, Rauner views as the cure. The budget situation is either deliberate or the result of incompetence, and most certainly not the result of Rauner’s victimhood. The longer this drags on, the more I believe it is deliberate. - PublicServant - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:40 pm: If you have a cogent argument to make in disagreement with my statement, anon, then make it. Otherwise, your feeble attempt at trolling is a fail. - Wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:41 pm: What exactly is “conservative” about the governor’s course of action? What sort of “businessman” engages in this kind of destruction without any sort of quantifiable and measurable objectives? - Mason born - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:41 pm: Han That’s a question I’ve been wondering. What is the stock of fuel on hand? ISP is still driving patrol cars etc. Sooner or later fuel reserves have to be replenished. I understand tgey use the fleet card for gas have to wonder when they got their last payment. - Not quite a majority - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:43 pm: Did anyone else see the subtext in Todd’s message: The floggings will continue until morale improves - Sir Reel - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:44 pm: A platitude here. A platitude there. Pretty soon Todd is gonna sound like he knows something. Please explain exactly how the Governor’s Turnaround Agenda will solve the State’s problems. Oh, and no platitudes this time. - kimocat - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:45 pm: If Rauner’s “turnaround agenda” is so vitally important to business and commerce in Illinois, then exactly what practical results is he (Rauner) hoping to achieve? How much do unions wages have to be driven down to satisfy him? How paltry should employee benefits end up being to effect the “turnaround”? How many non-union, non-living wage jobs dos Rauner want to create in the new Illinois business utopia? I’d like to hear a few answers to these questions from Rauner and the chamber types that extole the virtues of reducing even further the power of workers. And how much benefit will actually accrue to the public? Or are all these lower ages and benefits just go toward padding the bank account of the business owner? Instruct me. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:46 pm: Rauner’s willful decimation of Illinois’ social services, and Unions, and state government… Y’all want that labeled “conservative” AND Republican? Rauner is a Raunerite, the IllinoisGO PAC tells me so… No Republican or Democratic Governor would actively infiltrate the other party’s apparatus as an independent actor for anything else but for personal gain - so, he’s Raunerite. - thunderspirit - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:50 pm: == If a bunch of liberals come flying off in the process then I applaud!== Liberal isn’t a slur. Neither is conservative. Like most of us, I lean one way over the other; but that doesn’t mean the side away from which I lean doesn’t have reasonable, cogent things to say that should be considered rather than being dismissed out of hand with what amounts to an epithet. - illini97 - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:55 pm: As others have (wisely) said, let’s see some numbers. Let’s talk Return on investment and payoff period for these reform claims. Maybe then we can all decide if the future gains are worth the current pain. It is important to note that executives like Todd Maisch aren’t being harmed one iota by the shutdown of services. Therefore, is his opinion on the matter really all that relevant? Find me someone who can’t get access to LIHEAP, but says they understand and just hope that collective bargaining is curtailed. I’d be interested in hearing from them. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:56 pm: “Gov. Edgar thinks that Rauner’s tact wouldn’t be his own (Edgar’s) choice… So Gov. Edgar is wrong?” Apologies - Northsider - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:56 pm: Our betters have spoken and we must obey: Thank you, sir! May I have another? - Neveranonymous - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:00 pm: If these things are “vital” but “worth the wait,” why is it necessary to take hostages to get them? Shouldn’t you be able to analyze the data, show your work, and demonstrate to everyone how you have a solution to our budgetary and economic problems? Well, unless you can’t, of course. - Get a Job!! - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:00 pm: =Those things are more than important= First the Governor, then Sandack, now Maisch. Profits are more important than the suffering of the needy. - Mama - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:04 pm: There are no words… - Tuesday's Pizza - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:04 pm: Here is what I do know about what the “gov” is trying to do to public unions. He wants to, at any time for any reason, have the authority to layoff as many union workers, including entire agencies, and replace them with contract employees. Sources say he has companies lined up to take over and “run” said agencies (un confirmed) He wants to have the ability to layoff the most senior people and take away bumping rights. (They would simply be out of a job) He wants a increase in health insurance by 6 times what is being paid per check now. With that he wants a steep decrease in coverage and a larger out of pocket for deductibles. (Keep in mind if you work for the state you must have their coverage if you can’t prove you have it somewhere else) These are the things that he will not budge on in negotiations. - Qui Tam - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:06 pm: I’m in private business and refuse to join the IL Chamber. The IL Chamber’s contempt for good public policy and its mendacity are repugnant. - Curmudgeon - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:07 pm: == “…it pales in comparison to a 12-year wait for state government to return to fiscal sanity…”== Oh, I see. You mean back when governors shorted the required employer match on pensions, signed off on budgets that were “balanced” with a wink and a nod, and generally kicked the can down the road for the next generation to deal with, once those governers were retired and collecting BIG pensions. - chad - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:08 pm: Rauner still has the ultimate rationale and defense to it all: “Madigan and Cullerton have the numbers to pass a veto-proof tax increase and budget any time. If they don’t like my approach, they can stop the complained-of pain any time and just get on with it.” It really does not matter if this is true from a practical standpoint — the citizens who voted for Rauner generally will stick with him on this. I don’t believe the State is any where near the level of pain and suffering necessary to cause Rauner to further bargain against himself. He simply can and will play the longer game to force the Dems to deal and seems truly impervious to the criticism. The aspect of this which is more surprising to me is how disciplined the Dems are. They are willing to knowingly dish-out this pain by refusing to bargain for an extended period. I think they are overconfident it they think a “shutdown of government” can be blamed on Rauner. - scholar athlete - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:09 pm: I wonder if we could persuade politicians to stop seeing us as “taxpayers” or “workers” and see us as “citizens.” Thomas Jefferson insisted on speaking to the American people as fellow citizens and to individual Americans as citizen, as in “Good day, citizen.”. Just that slight change of language changes the relationship profoundly. And yes, I frequently live in my own private Idaho, but language matters. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:12 pm: - Curmudgeon - How many pension payments did Pat Quinn miss? - lake county democrat - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:13 pm: Get a Job: If the suffering of the needy is more important than profits, why aren’t the Dems negotiating amongst themselves to pass their own budget? They aren’t even pretending to try to craft one (at least in public). They’re all too happy to let the needy suffer if the alternative is having to stick their neck out and make that case to the voters. Contrary to how it may appear, I don’t hold the Democrats equally culpable, but when the “hostages”-type rhetoric comes out, yes, share culpability. - NoGifts - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:14 pm: Did he send a kitten poster with the message? - BeenThereB4 - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:14 pm: OW, are you saying that Rauner’s actions should not be blamed on conservative OR Republicans? Because, it wasn’t members of just the Raunerite party marching in lock-step with Herr Rauner, it was Republicans. Even Republicans like Raymond Poe, who have heretofore chosen his constituents over extreme ideologies. So, yes, Republicans and conservatives are to blame for this. - Mason born - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:15 pm: Willy With much respect I think crumudgeon was referring to the chambers 12 yr statement for when things were sane. Which baffled me too when I read it. - Kodachrome - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:18 pm: - OW - How much did Pat Quinn borrow in 2010 and 2011 to fund pensions? - lake county democrat - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:20 pm: Chad: You nailed it. The response to this, to date, has been that the supermajority is only on paper. I don’t buy it. If Bill Clinton could twist enough arms to pass the 93 budget with a very hostile intra-party resistance, Mike Madigan has the political capital to pass some sort of budget. That Jeff Franks refused to vote for the illusory budget or that a couple of reps bolted on the equally extreme mandatory arbitration bill doesn’t discount that. If nothing else they could at least TRY to negotiate a budget amongst themselves (maybe invite any GOP legislators to joint them). Or they could simply agree to negotiate turnaround agenda items - there’s nothing anti-progressive/anti-poor about trading more revenue/less service cuts for, say, workers comp reform. Rauner put the baby in the path of the slow moving tank. The Dems mutter “tisk-tisk” and walk on by. - burbanite - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:20 pm: “- anon - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 1:23 pm: SO Public Servant is lecturing private business owners how the economy works and Willy is stating liberals own businesses.” Was there a flaw in either of those statements? Do you actually believe that only conservatives own businesses and only private sector people understand business principles? - illini - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:24 pm: Chad - ” the citizens who voted for Rauner generally will stick with him” yes, all 50.3% !!! ” I don’t believe the State is any where near the level of pain and suffering necessary” - what world ( or state ) are you living in ? ” I think they are overconfident it they think a “shutdown of government” can be blamed on Rauner.” - you wish! Keep dreaming. - 360 Degree TurnAround - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:27 pm: The Raunerites have had good sayings so far i.e. “status quo” and “hang in there”. Where are the democrats sayings? How about “stay reasonable my friends, stay reasonable”. How about “I prefer my Springfield stirred, not shaken”. - Chicago Cynic - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:27 pm: Think we can create a trending hashtag #hangintherebrucie? Private sector. Job creator. Business owner. Moderate. What the gov is doing is antithetical to how to run a business. There is no reasonable endgame in this process. But Rauner understands soooo little about politics none of this is surprising. - Beeker - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:30 pm: Agreed. Hang in there and pump the brakes. Already have my popcorn made: I know the show will only get better. Especially on here! - ottawa otter - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:34 pm: 360 Turnaround…..now that was good, and funny! stirred, not shaken - Mouthy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:34 pm: A negotiated deal is possible but unlikely as it sits now. I watched Lee A Daniels cross party lines and vote for William A Redmond for Speaker. More followed. So that’s possible. A recall is possible if it gets more dire and most of the blame is tagged to Rauner. A meteor, about the size of Rhode Island, could crash into the planet and solve all our problems. Or I can move and hope the state keeps sending me pension checks.. - Mama - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:35 pm: “two-thirds of Illinois corporations currently pay no state income tax.” Word, how long has this been going on? This is why IL is in trouble - - the wealthy are NOT paying their fair share of taxes. - PublicServant - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:36 pm: Oh, and P.S. anon, I’m a private business owner in Illinois. In addition, I’m one who believes the consumers of my firm’s IT services are my bosses. I know that doesn’t fit into your worldview. I’m also more than ok with that. - Formerly Known As... - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:36 pm: Many would prefer if Rauner and Madigan had agreed on a budget, trusted each other and continued working together on reforms after the budget. They ruined that. Once a budget is done, what motivation will Madigan have for supporting any reforms that may be necessary for the state but unpopular with his base? If not now, when? How is it possible? - Wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:36 pm: LCD, if 60 plus failed override attempts won’t convince you, I guess nothing will. How many moons does your planet have? - Mama - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:38 pm: Word, you need to point out what the actual status quo is again. - 360 Degree TurnAround - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:42 pm: If Madigan = Status Quo Does Rauner = Status Bro Quos before Bros! - Allen D - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:42 pm: Hold True Gov. Keep it going and save our state. - Formerly Known As... - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:42 pm: @Mama - From Crain’s last year ==There’s a good reason why most Illinois companies don’t pay state income taxes: They don’t owe federal income taxes, either. About two-thirds of Illinois companies don’t pay state income taxes, yet the idea of closing loopholes to address that gap ignores the reality that 95 percent of those companies had zero or negative taxable income at the federal level, according to the Illinois Chamber of Commerce and the Taxpayers’ Federation of Illinois. Critics of Illinois corporate tax law “want you to think there’s a lot of cheating going on,” said Carol Portman, president of the business-backed Taxpayers’ Federation. “That’s not the case.” == The findings are not that surprising, given that the vast majority of companies are small, said Ralph Martire, executive director of the Center for Tax and Budget Accountability, a Chicago-based group that advocates for a progressive individual income tax and other ideas to raise Illinois revenues.== - Wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:45 pm: You’d thnk that if certain “reforms” were “more than important” (whateve that means) and “vital” you’d be able to quantify the ROI. So far, it’s raining nothing but meaningless buzz words. But the cost of strategy is easily measurable and severe. - Kodachrome - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:46 pm: = “two-thirds of Illinois corporations currently pay no state income tax.” Word, how long has this been going on? = Well, its clearly been going on for a long time, including a significant period of time when the “middle class defenders” have held the governor’s office along with majorities in both houses of the GA, if not supermajorities. So, if their interests are in helping the middle class in this state, tell me why this was not addressed by them legislatively to remove tax breaks, when they could have passed anything regardless of GOP opposition, and needing only 60 and 30? - Get a Job!! - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:49 pm: @ lake county democrat The Dems passed their budget and several spending bills since and they’ve all be vetoed. They’re dealing with a my way or the highway Governor…..I’m not sure what good it does for them to pass budget after budget with a Governor who refuses to Govern. Even if they raise on their own, there’s nothing requiring the Governor to actually spend the money that they want spent. Why would they take a tough vote to raise taxes knowing full well that Rauner would lapse money of the programs they tried to preserve? For there to ever be a budget they have to come together. The idea that the Dems can run the state from their super majority ignores the reality roles of the different branches of government - Judgment Day (on the road) - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:50 pm: “Judgement Day, I’m not sure what you meant by the first comment but I doubt Friedricks will get things moving. As a union AFSCME is down to just 1200 or so fairshare folks. In my local we’ve got about 32 out of 890. So all the anti union moves by Rauner have had the opposite effect. 100% Union is the rallying cry. I’m still looking for something hopeful.” ———— Honeybear, both sides are going to have to ‘give’. Dosn’t matter where it comes from, but there’s got to be real (not sham) ‘give’ on both sides. Isn’t happening - from either side. So the trench warfare continues. - Sangamo Sam - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:54 pm: “Hang in there, Governor” said no serious person ever. - Langhorne - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:54 pm: Radogno: hang in there Maisch: hang in there Durkin? Durkin? You have the script, get the message out. Todd, get real. You have lots of legislative experience. It is never winner take all, and wont be this time, either. Better you said, we want this on workers comp, this on tort reform, a prop tax freeze, A BUDGET, and dump union busting. Pensions linger, CAs can wait til next year. Instead, you drank the kool aid and i have lost all respect for the Chamber. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:54 pm: Kodachrome and others, the businesses which don’t pay income taxes are mostly small businesses. All income passes through to personal, and that’s where the taxes are paid. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:56 pm: Sorry, I stepped away. - BeenThereB4 -, No, the GOP will have to wear the jacket for Raunerite ideals now. But they are Raunerite ideals all the same… - Mason born -, as you well know, it doesn’t take much to baffle me too. Much respect back at ya. OW - Kodachrome -, how much? Rauner shutting down the state is costing Illinois, I think I read something like $16 million a day. If you have a point, make it. Pension payments were made, if Rauner can find a way to make pension payments, not raise taxes and fund his state agencies, let me know… - 360 Degree TurnAround - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:56 pm: They did address tax breaks to a certain extent. See HB 235 from 2003, PA 93-552. - Langhorne - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:58 pm: IML speak up. Do you want the framework several have suggested? IMA Speak up. Civic federation speak up. Everyone, speak up - allknowingmasterofracoondom - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 3:03 pm: Wordslinger - GUE, two-thirds of Illinois corporations currently pay no state income tax. Honest question - where do you get this data? Because I pay pay pay. I want in. But I am asking you an honest question. - Mama - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 3:06 pm: ++- chad - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 2:08 pm: Rauner still has the ultimate rationale and defense to it all: “Madigan and Cullerton have the numbers to pass a veto-proof tax increase and budget any time.++ Chad, Madigan may have 71 members, but he does not have 71 votes - - the number of votes is what counts. - Filmmaker Professor - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 3:09 pm: I look forward to the reaction from the Champaign Chamber of Commerce when the U of I starts running out of cash. Will probably result in a huge business boom. - Gruntled University Employee - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 3:13 pm: See FKA’s post from 2:42pm - Mason born - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 3:14 pm: A coworker pointed out the “hang in there” phrase showed up in the Fairfield mayors little statement. I wonder if simeone in BVR’s camp is trying to smother some grass fires. - CCP Hostage - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 3:29 pm: allknowingmaster–S Corporations don’t pay corporate income tax. The profit of the business is transferred to the owner’s personal income tax as income and is taxed at the personal rate. So to say that no income tax is paid is incorrect. It is paid as personal tax rather than corporate. - Kodachrome - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 3:32 pm: My point, Willy, has nothing to do with what BR is doing now, and everything to do with your comment that PQ paid the pensions. He did not, at least not until the income tax was raised. He borrowed massively to pay it before then, which now is costing us massively in interest. How is that “paying” it exactly? Curmudgeon was accurate. - Enviro - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 3:37 pm: The Chamber urges Rauner to “hang in there” while the Unions and middle-income workers urge Madigan and their GA reps to “hang in there.” This could drag on for months. - IL17Progressive - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 3:43 pm: The link to Todd’s op-ed is at the top. Go to the article. Create yourself a Crain’s id or use an existing from on of other source options. Copy and paste your comments! Go to http://ilchamber.org and use the ‘contact us option’ and submit your comments there. Check the ‘About Us’ with Exec team where most are listed with an email. More Copy and Paste. Some large cities have a local Chamber with a web site where possibly are contact us and email address to ‘copy and paste’ comments. Find the members list of your local Chamber or just visit stores identified as Chamber member and print and deliver. CapitolFax is a great source but alas the readership is highly one sided. - Commonsense in Illinois - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 3:44 pm: Mr. Maisch’s column reminds me of the old church choir story…telling the pastor before a particularly pointed sermon - Remember Pastor, we’re behind you. I’m just wondering what the Illinois Chamber has done to garner votes for the Governor’s agenda, or are they just bystanders at an accident scene? - Juice - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 3:47 pm: Kodachrome. Pat Quinn essentially proposed raising taxes in 2009 to make pension payments. Republicans say “we won’t vote to raise taxes, but we’re willing to vote for billions of borrowing to make pension payments.” General Assembly passes budget. PQ vetoes budget, then when Republicans make it clear they will join Democrats to override veto, PQ cuts deal and goes along with borrowing to cover pension payments. All Pat Quinn’s fault, because something something “governor’s own” something something. - Graduated College Student - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 3:48 pm: ===You nailed it. The response to this, to date, has been that the supermajority is only on paper. I don’t buy it. If Bill Clinton could twist enough arms to pass the 93 budget with a very hostile intra-party resistance, Mike Madigan has the political capital to pass some sort of budget. That Jeff Franks refused to vote for the illusory budget or that a couple of reps bolted on the equally extreme mandatory arbitration bill doesn’t discount that. If nothing else they could at least TRY to negotiate a budget amongst themselves (maybe invite any GOP legislators to joint them). Or they could simply agree to negotiate turnaround agenda items - there’s nothing anti-progressive/anti-poor about trading more revenue/less service cuts for, say, workers comp reform.=== The difference which you are conveniently overlooking is that Bill Clinton was the first Democratic President in 12 years, which gave the party at least something of a political incentive to vote for the budget in 1993. Madigan’s not the chief executive of the state, Rauner is. - Formerly Known As... - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:03 pm: ==Mike Madigan has the political capital to pass some sort of budget== Many of us took that as Madigan’s meaning when he said ==“I don’t necessarily agree with the first part of your remarks, that in the end this will be negotiated between the governor, and the leaders. I don’t necessarily agree with that,” Madigan said. He later added, “(T)here are conversations going on but I don’t think you should proceed under any presumptions that are based upon what happened in the past… I don’t necessarily presume that there will be some kind of a deal put together between the governor and the legislative leaders.”== - Kodachrome - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:08 pm: Gotcha, Juice. I guess you mean the year it was 37-21 and 70-48 in the GA? Where exactly were GOP votes required to pass the budget before OT? But I understand, as long as the party you favor would have to take the blame for it all by themselves, even if its the right thing to do, its ok for them to pass on it unless and until the GOP members signed on. That’s called politics, which is why we have the problems we have now. If tax money was needed, and the Dem GA knew it, they should have voted for it without GOP votes. And why should PQ have cut any deal? If he believed in the tax increase, let them override. What is it going to take to get out of this politics mentality, act to do what you believe in and let the chips fall where they may. By the way, I fully blame the GOP equally. But I tire of the idea that the Dem party somehow has integrity and values on their side in this battle - they don’t. They could have passed anything they wanted for a decade without GOP votes, and without anywhere near a full compliment of Dem GA members. - Anonymous - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:13 pm: @ Kodachrome Does it really matter what happened in past years? Rauner enjoys inflicting pain on anyone who disagrees with him, period. I tire when a lot of the GA will retire already and the majority of the GOP party will stop becoming a wholly owned subsidiary of Rauner. - Aldyth - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:15 pm: What is this fiscal sanity and basic competency you speak of? I have not seen the governor display this. - Juice - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:18 pm: ” Where exactly were GOP votes required to pass the budget before OT?” Try Article IX Section 9 of the Illinois Constitution. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:24 pm: Do not feed dorm room Trolls. - nadia - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:25 pm: I guess this means the Chamber won’t be needing any help from MJM and Pres. Cullerton - Norseman - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:29 pm: Juice read: http://wuis.org/post/illinois-issues-don-t-blame-constitution-failure-end-impasse?nopop=1#stream/0 - illini - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:30 pm: Willy - I’m detecting a lot more Trolls on here lately as well - or am I imagining things? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:32 pm: - illini -, Yep, loads more. They talk in circles, spouting the dorm room to get off topic, then come back to nothing. But, Rauner is #Winning, so there’s that… - allknowingmasterofracoondom - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:35 pm: - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:24 pm: Do not feed dorm room Trolls. OW - with respect, if that was for me…well what is trolling about my comment? Word makes a statement that is designed to elicit a certain response. My response was probably different than he expected. Hyperbole. Plain and simple. Maybe you were not talking about me? - illini - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:36 pm: Willy - my sentiments exactly. Yet, I guess the question is - do we ignore their inane banter or call them out every chance we have? I say, call them out - and there are many who will do just that, - Kodachrome - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:41 pm: Sorry OW, been out of the dorms for a while now. I know its easier to just name call though. But while in school I did learn that a simple majority is needed to pass a budget or to increase taxes in this state, as long as its done timely. What does Article IX Section 9 of have to do with the Dem ability in 2009 to vote for increased taxes or for a budget? My whole point was they should have passed a tax increase in 2009 instead of borrowing money and incurring more debt. =Republicans say “we won’t vote to raise taxes, but we’re willing to vote for billions of borrowing to make pension payments.”= Before overtime in 2009, they didn’t need one single GOP vote - not one. They had 37 and 70. So they also only needed percentages of Dem votes, 30 and 60. So what is your point? Mine is that neither party practices integrity to the citizens of this state. That is why people believe that SOME change is needed, no matter where they can get it from, because they are desperate to stop being deceived. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:41 pm: - allknowingmasterofracoondom - I don’t think it was, …should it have been? - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:43 pm: Others, they know…lol - Southern Illinois Hoopdee - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:43 pm: Kodachrome, if only we had a gov who wanted to negotiate in good faith! Wouldn’t that be nice. Oh, that was Quinn. Carry on then. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:44 pm: Other keep feeding them… - Arthur Andersen - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:47 pm: I say call them out, by name, unless our host has other wishes. Talking to you, Becker. - Smitty Irving - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 4:48 pm: If Mr. Maisch thinks the 26 years of GOP governors was “fiscal sanity” I can think of no greater evidence of his flight from reality. - Beeker - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 5:13 pm: Well, Willy, you can’t strong-arm the bots here with remarks about feeding “trolls.” Obviously they don’t listen to you, either. Lol. This popcorn tastes great. Continue the show! - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 5:17 pm: I read your comment - Beeker -. I do wonder when it comes to running on the actual Turnaround Agenda what that will be like. Bruce Rauner didn’t, so now we’ll see how it goes I guess. - illini - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 5:30 pm: Yeah, there are plenty of Raunerbots that have taken to commenting on this site!!!!!!!!! And I will be the first person to want to guarantee them their Freedom of Speech - but, get off the talking points and get in the real world - don’t talk in circles and make unsubstantiated statements you expect everyone to accept at face value just because you wrote it. There are people much smarter than I am who will call you out. Yes, you may have a good deal of supporters who access this site, but how are you really contributing to a civil political discourse about what is happening in Illinois? Honestly, I’m trying to decide if I am feeding the Trolls by responding or if I should ignore them! - sal-says - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 5:32 pm: == I know the show will only get better. == That statement is a disgrace. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 5:34 pm: - illini - “Follow your heart”. Or, realistically, when the tediousness of reading blatently made points ignoring what is given, a second time, that’s a good start… - RNUG - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 5:38 pm: == Every day I become more and more convinced that we are not going to pull out of this. Is there something to hope for? Serious question. == -Honeybear- Serious if somewhat gruesome answer about the only way I see this ending … It took the death of a bunch of kids to bring Ryan down. It took a Federal investigation into selling a Senate seat to bring Blago down. It took failing to plow city streets / failure to pick up the garbage to bring Chicago mayors down. Some disaster on the order of magnitude of one of the above events is what it will take to bring Rauner to start governing … because, to quote -OW-, “Governors Own!”. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 5:42 pm: - RNUG -, Thanks for the props, but to your point, that’s what it will be to get Rauner engaged. For Rauner’s sake, he better hope it won’t be too late, or a tragedy. - DuPage Grandma - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 6:04 pm: “I’ve spoken with many businesses that are waiting on the state to pay them millions of dollars for goods and services already provided. Local governments are awaiting vital infrastructure funding; university students wonder if tuition grants are coming.” Hey….You’re doing a heckuva job, Braunie…State is in the worst financial mess it has ever been in and it keeps getting worse…and worse…and worse… - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 6:05 pm: “The real question is whether the status quo in Illinois is acceptable.” With this I agree and add that it’s not acceptable that all these cuts are happening because we won’t raise the state income tax to levels of many of our neighbor states. We won’t enact a progressive income tax that’s ballpark to Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin. Here is a new article about the tea party failure in Kansas, and borrowing to pay pensions, among other failures. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-29/kansas-tax-patches-fail-as-tea-party-experiment-riles-residents - Wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 6:07 pm: FKA, why is it acceptable to sabotage core state functions, manufacture a disaster for “leverage,” to further a political agenda? And it is purely a political agenda. If it were an economic or fiscal one, we’d have gotten some rational cost-benefit analysis by now, rather than just the vague weasel-words. Real people are getting harmed. Businesses are not getting paid. And the cost of the strategy goes up every day, with no explanation at all as to the It’s not a “game,” as the representative of the sneering misanthrope faction of the governor’s supporters claimed. - Wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 6:16 pm: Todd says this all about restoring “fiscal sanity, basic competency and a partnership with business.” Fiscal sanity — the hostage strategy is piling up record deficits and starving local governments of earmarked taxes that we all continue to pay for no services. That’s sane? Basic competency — the strategy is willful sabotage of government functions. How does that translate to “basic competency?” Partner with business — the state is not paying businesses for services already rendered. Some partner. Maybe it’s Opposite Day. Because the status quo, today, as created by the governor’s political strategy, is causing the exact opposite of what Todd claims are its goals. - Southern Illinois Hoopdee - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 6:29 pm: Grandson of Man, you’re right, but not many people want to address that here on either side. I’m glad to here that I’m not the only one who wants a progressive tax. - Southern Illinois Hoopdee - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 6:29 pm: *hear, autocorrect fail. - burbanite - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 7:11 pm: Southern Illinois Hoopdee, I am thinking a lot of people here would support a progressive tax. - Original Rambler - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 7:39 pm: As a counterpoint to GOM 6:05… http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carl-gibson/mark-dayton-minnesota-economy_b_6737786.html - Anonymous - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 8:26 pm: The sideline cheerleaders ahead of the meeting can not hang the blame on the perpetrator for his actions(why do you make me do this to you?) an excuse for another executive failure - Anon - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 11:00 pm: On the stalemate, I have pondered this question: Who would be more willing to give up their position and political power — Rauner or Madigan — if somehow doing so were part of really solving our state’s serious problems? In other words, relatively speaking, who would more readily put state interests ahead of their personal interests. Interesting to rank the Governor and the four leaders along this scale. Somehow the answer gives insight into what really motivates the players in this drama. - RNUG - Thursday, Oct 29, 15 @ 11:14 pm: You know, if the goal is to reset State spending at the lowest possible level as allowed by the courts, to deplete any possible reserves, and to run up the maximum amount of debt owed (in other words, a classic bust-out operation), Rauner has succeeded in achieving that goal at the moment. The real problem is going to be what happens when Rauner has the “AHA” moment (if it ever occurs) and realizes he will have to deal with the mess he has created the past 9 months if he wants to keep the Governor gig in order to keep playing on the national stage. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.