Question of the day
Friday, Mar 7, 2008 - Posted by Rich Miller
* The setup…
As if the $125 ticket wasn’t bad enough, Lauren Kamm’s illegal left turn onto Ashland Avenue in Chicago earned her an extra surprise: Her driver’s license was confiscated.
Kamm was told it would be returned after her case was completed, a process potentially lasting weeks. While she could still drive legally with a copy of the ticket, the thought of having no photo identification sent her into a panic, especially since she planned to attend a college reunion at a North Side bar the next night. […]
Illinois is one of the few states where officers can — and often do — take a driver’s license during routine traffic stops. But a group of state officials is trying to change that. In an era when a government-issued photo ID is often needed to board an airplane or make a credit-card purchase, the practice is antiquated, they said. […]
Now, state law requires that drivers ticketed for a moving violation post bail. They do that by paying $75 at the police station, surrendering a bond card (usually available from insurance companies) or giving up their driver’s license. Police officers also can just ask for a signature, but such leniency is rare.
* Question: Should Illinois do away with or modify this law? Explain.
- wordslinger - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 11:09 am:
Perhaps in the future, a state ID card should be issued with new driver’s licenses and renewals.
- The Pug is on the Prowl - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 11:18 am:
I got a ticket the other day, and the police man actually issued me the ticket and specifically said he would be giving me back my license because of its importance…I didnt know they even had the option, but rather thought they had to take it…I thought it was pretty cool of him.
- pickles!! - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 11:21 am:
Is this based on state law? Msot police departments just issue I-bonds, unless it’s a more serious offense, such as a DUI charge.
Using a license as bond is kind of obsolete now. I think if they just run your driver’s license number and an i-bon, should be good enough. I don’t think they need the actual license
- Ghost - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 11:27 am:
Modify it to only require a singnature. Keep in mind if they do not show for the hearings on the tickets the State can issue a warrant for their arrest. So the next time they are stopped they get hauled in. This seems a reasonable deterrent to people not appearing on tickets.
- Marbley - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 11:29 am:
Taking your license for bond is old and outdated you should be able to sign the tickets and swear you will be in court or pay the fine, if not you get a warrant. In fact when a police officer takes your license they are breaking the law that says you must at all times carry identification.
- Ron Burgundy - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 11:37 am:
There are many other reasonable ways to ensure someone’s appearance in court than taking their license. Because the DL is the most common form of identification for most people it really puts a hardship on some people to take it away for minor offenses short of a revocation/suspension.
- Sang-anon - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 11:41 am:
Stop it now. I hated it back in the old days, the first thing the cops would do when they asked for your id is hold up your license to see if it had staple holes from being attached to a ticket. It if did you were sure to get another ticket.
- Been There - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 12:03 pm:
If anyone is that worried about it all you need to do is go get a state id from the secretary of state. If can do it when you renew your license or at any time actually. It looks almost identical to a drivers license. It cost of few bucks but there already is a remedy for those that are worried.
- North of I-80 - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 12:04 pm:
A show of leniency happened some years back: there is a group of 30+ states that formed a list of “compact” states in which all licensing provisions that occur in each of these states = same sanctions as your home state. That means that officers honor IA or IN or OH etc drivers by releasing them on their signatures. If the driver throws the ticket away, his/her IN or OH or IA license will be suspended by their home “compact” state. IL drivers for a few years were released on their own signatures and because they had no $$ or bond card or DL posted, they blew off the tickets. 1000’s of IL drivers were suddenly missing court dates, getting suspended and both the SOS and all of the Circuit Court’s offices were smalled by all of the IL drivers who threw away their citations.
The release on the “Promise To Comply” option for IL drivers was rescinded because way too many didn’t comply and overburdened the systems.
As a LAST resort, drivers CAN be released on an Individual Bond [signature bond] as long as the officer is POSITIVE of the identity of the driver. Because so many of these people have blown the terms of these signature releases, different county clerks have tightened the guidelines for when drivers may be releeased on Individual Bonds. Different police depts & states attorneys have tightened restrictions on Individual Bond releases due to their depts getting slammed by 100’s of drivers tossing away their tickets, causing warrants to be issued, additional paperwork, manpower chasing these people down etc.
IF IF the supreme court rules [that govern release on bond] change or law changes to allow more signature releases, expect more work for SOS and counties to deal with the deadbeats. In the meantime, remember that “your” driver’s license is not your property, it belongs to the SOS. You are just temporarily allowed to carry it. Go get yourself an IL photo ID card or don’t get caught violating traffic laws.
- Pat collins - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 12:15 pm:
North of I-80
Then why dont other states have that problem?
This is like the Front license plate. Half the states don’t require them. Why is it we need to?
- Bookworm - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 12:17 pm:
I think this practice should be stopped. Until it is, however, he’res one way to protect yourself: get a state ID card (the kind issued to non-drivers) IN ADDITION to your driver’s license. That way you have a backup form of ID if you don’t have your driver’s license. You can do this at any SOS office. It’s also a good way to guarantee you have 2 forms of photo ID available if you need it.
- True Observer - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 12:21 pm:
“I thought it was pretty cool of him.”
No it wasn’t.
It has to do with money.
The Court Clerks don’t want to pay the 41 cents postage plus the handling for mailing back the driver’s license after the ticket is paid by mail.
It’s strictly business.
- North of I-80 - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 12:23 pm:
Yikes; 1st day with new fingers: 1000’s of IL drivers *SLAMMED* the SOS and county clerks by failing to show up/answer by the court date.
Marbley: “when a police officer takes your license they are breaking the law that says you must at all times carry identification”
This must be some new law or an interesting interpretation…. I’ll clarify: You have a license to drive, which is a privilege to drive. You are required to carry the plastic card that belongs to & is issued by SOS, when you drive. If you post it for bond, you are instructed to carry one copy of the citation you posted it on, with you when you drive…. it IS your license to drive + receipt for the DL you left with the cop. If you have a judicial driving permit, you must carry it with you when you drive. If your license is not suspended/revoked/cancelled/invalid you need to have it or a ticket or paperwork on you when driving. If you don’t, it is a violation, but your driving privilege is still valid… confirmed by the cop’s radio or computer. IF the SOS files are down or computers are down, you might be detained a while until your status is verified.
Roadside safety checks [aka DUI roadblocks]. When you drive into one, if you present a valid-looking driver’s license and proof of insurance [IL vehicle] and there are NO violations, impairment or defects, the DL is honored at face value + you are sent on your way. If you are driving on a ticket or paperwork or have nothing but a Visa card on you, you will be detained until your driving privilege is confirmed by radio/computer, plus a likely ticket or warning for failing to present officer w/drivers license.
- North of I-80 - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 12:28 pm:
Pat Collins: I don’t 1) if other states have the same problem or not 2) why others may not have it the same that we do here.
Pat: Is there some reason why other states don’t seem to have quite the same problems with their governors that IL does?
Last I heard, it was more like 20-25% required 1 plate while 75 - 80% required 2 plates. Law enforcement wants 2 plates; insurance companies want 2, car owners want 0 or 1. Plates all belong to SOS so it’s Jesse’s call.
- VanillaMan - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 12:32 pm:
Update the law to reflect our new reality.
- North of I-80 - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 1:02 pm:
VM: Update the law? 11 months for a budget…. no capital plan since 1999. But considering that it would cost them no money to do, would be easy to do, would make lots happy and then slam SOS and most county Circuit Clerks offices slowing them all down, it sounds prefectly like IL govt!
- JonShibleyFan - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 1:29 pm:
Update it.
I am old enough to remember people comparing their old laminated licenses to see who had the most holes in the border from the court stapling the license to your paperwork.
Today, the license is too important. Air travel. Banking. Getting into a building downtown.
Taking the license away is silly.
- DwightZinfandel - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 1:31 pm:
Of course it should be changed. I think if you’re ticketed in Wisconsin they just run your credit card on the side of the road.
- Robbie - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 1:37 pm:
it should be changed. the law is antiquated.
if you guys think that the state ID is an alternative, then they should be giving them out with licenses for free. i’ll be damned if i have to even pay a few bucks for an extra piece of plastic just because the cops want to take the first one.
- Cogito - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 1:59 pm:
In none of our surrounding states would you be required to drive on a ticket.
What irony. IL is a state where a driver who has been ticketed for a moving violation must give up their (excuse me I-80, the Secretary of State’s) license, leaving the driver without a photo ID, but has legislators arguing that drivers licenses should be provided to illegal aliens.
- So. Il citizen - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 2:21 pm:
THis is just another Illinois law that allows counties to hire someone’s friend/family. In St. Clair county, the East St. Louis police run speed traps on the interstates; which I drove right into. The officer would not accept my insurance bond card and conficated my licence. To make matters worse, the licence was lost at the court house and I had to take a vacation day from work to get all of the necessary paperwork to obtain a replacement.
- No nickname - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 2:28 pm:
Great idea! Happened to me a few months ago. Cook County Clerk’s office lost my license and it took me two months to finally get it back.
Who is sponsoring this bill?
- pickles!! - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 2:48 pm:
I remember the “old days” when they used to staple your license to your ticket in court. In high school, the kids who had the most “staple marks” on their license were the “cool kids”.
- Michelle Flaherty - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 3:21 pm:
Hmmmm. Why does this Question of the Day have a familiar ring to it? Oh yeah, because it was the question of the day back on Aug. 1 when the Daily Herald first reported this little peculiarity in Illinois law.
Question of the day
Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007
First, the setup…
When Tracy Chappell, 26, was eight months pregnant at the beginning of June, she was stopped for speeding in Niles. Even though her husband, a police officer, was sitting in the passenger’s seat, she had to hand over her driver’s license. […]
It turns out, Illinois is the only state that does this. We just think it’s normal because it’s been legal here since the ’60s. In most other states, officers hand you a ticket and then you’re expected to mail in your fine.
There are some states that’ll take your license if you’re stopped for drunken driving, like California, or if you’re an out-of-state driver, like in Michigan. And if you’re stopped in Georgia, the police officer can take you straight to jail if he sees fit.
While officers in Illinois do have discretion to allow a motorist to keep their license, it is rarely exercised, said Richard Casler, Schaumburg’s director of police.
There is no law in Illinois allowing officers to take licenses. Instead, the policy is a rule set down by the Illinois Supreme Court, which decides how laws should be enforced.
Question: Should state law be changed to allow people to keep their drivers licenses after a non-DUI traffic stop? Explain.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 3:27 pm:
Familiar, but not exact.
- Jake - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 3:31 pm:
I got caught in a Friday night dragnet on Mannheim in Schiler Park where the road was winnowed down to one lane and a dozen officers put flashlights in the car windows and looked for violations. My front license plate had fallen off so I got pulled aside and when I could not produce a current insurance card (I had an expired one) I had to give up my license. What a nightmare? In that neighborhood you need to show a picture license to use credit cards at grocery stores. The paper receipt the officer gave me wouldn’t do. And I was one of the lucky ones - about 15 cars had been pulled aside for non working lights etc.
- Jake - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 3:32 pm:
Not Schiler Park - Sone Park - Illinois’ most famous speed trap.
- Seen it before - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 5:02 pm:
It’s quite common in Chicago for the CPD to keep the license. Most inconvenient.
- Anonymous - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 5:25 pm:
This happened to me the week before I was leaving for Ireland, so I really needed my license to rent a car there–I doubt they would have rented me one with a ticket! I had to resort to crying to get the officer to give me the option of driving to the precinct to posted the $$ and get my license. Before the tears, he didn’t even offer me that option.
My husband and I are both from Kansas; a “bond card” does not exist there. The first time my husband was pulled over in Illinois, he didn’t even understand what the officer was referring to–”do you have a bon-car?” was how it came out.
- Arthur Andersen - Friday, Mar 7, 08 @ 7:54 pm:
Not to be a party-pooper here, friends, but none of these terrible things happen if one follows the ol’ L-A-W, as P-O-A would say. Jake, no offense, but you were a prime target once they saw that missing license plate; the expired insurance was just frosting on Barney’s donut.
Many of the ticket-writing police would like the rule changed or at least clarified, because they a) don’t like handling cash (remember, it hasn’t been too long since when you received a ticket from a State Trooper, you had to follow him/her to a mailbox to make sure the dough went to HQ.) b) don’t like the extra hassle that goes with the bond cards and c) they don’t like any law, etc. that is inconsistently applied.
AA has been fortunate enough to not catch a coupon for quite a while, but the last two family/friends that got the “press hard” treatment did not have to surrender their licenses; one officer was a State Trooper, the other a local here in the ‘Patch.
While the GA is fretting over this, they should pull a Filan and do some “fund sweeping” until they find enough dough for a major replacement of State Police cars. The DoC crappy fleet is bad enough, but to have the men and women who help many in harm’s way driving 10-year old or 200,000 mile beaters is just, well, criminal.
- Anonymous - Monday, Mar 10, 08 @ 6:49 pm:
Allowing arbitrary application of police powers is just begging for lawsuits.
Police should have clear standards for yanking licenses (and/or the vehicle itself), such as DUI, speeds 25MPH over the limit, or any other really dangerous driving (specified in a revised law).
Everything else should be relatively minor and should only require payment of the ticket, or a bond (license, cash, credit, debit, check, pre-paid bond, etc.) of the driver’s choice.
Such reform should reduce the most dangerous driving, hopefully improve financial collection on the minor infractions, make the system more consistent and fair, and make police/citizen interactions more positive and pleasant for everyone.